georger

well the wierd part of this is: it is Jo who brought Duane's friend at Marrietta up. People who have talked to him say he's still alive. Go talk to him. Why ALL THIS FUCKING GUESSING WHEN ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS OPEN THE DAMNED DOOR A LOOK WHOSE OUTSIDE STANDING ON THE LAWN! Are you fucking people stupid or what!? Confirm it or not! Im not saying anything new here and I resent the fact that Sluggo is jumping my ass when it is Jo Weber's story being examined. I dont claim to know who Cooper was. This thread is about DB Cooper. Jo says DB Cooper was Duane Weber. So check it out!

Ouch! I’ve spent a lot of time working on Jo’s claims without compensation (more than she is aware of, (based on one of last night’s posts). I was in the process of making a post (reply to Jo) about how unbelievably ego-centric and non-analytical she is. While I was going through my “Sibert” research I noticed something that threw me for a loop. Hey! Seriously… I need some opinions especially a “handwriting expert’s.” I don’t know squat about handwriting, but I do know the “Which one is different from the others” game. I especially value snowmman’s and georger’s opinions on this. As far as I can tell most of them were written by a “strong left hander,” but one was not. You all know that Jo has been making this extraordinary claim about Duane doing service for someone else or visa versa (I don’t remember because I never thought it had any basis), look at the samples of Duane’s handwriting below. They range from 1942 – 1956, which may be part of the story. The only modification I did to these scans was to remove some ‘Personally Identifiable Information” (PII) from them. I will finish my rant to Jo when I get output from you guys. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yeah… Sluggo knows something… Now it’s georger’s time to provide proof. Where did you get this information? You can’t hold Jo to one standard and yourself to another! I’m “pissed as hell” at Jo right now, but I won’t fall into the “rumor pit.” well the rumor is he's still alive - call him up! Why are you jumping my ass? It's Jo's to prove! Jo has referred to Duane's friend at Marietta before right here in these pages. Did you think nobody would follow that up and talk to him? Evidently you didnt? You are Jo's researcher. You go fetch it! I dont chase phantoms especially where someone is claiming a loaf of bread is a Ford-350! Duane was not DB Cooper and you know that yourself. This is assinine.

All of this could be true! None of it makes Duane Weber, DB Cooper! Its beginning to sound more like Duane Weber was Robert Oppenheimer or Enrico Fermi or Chejne Kanou or, Duane Weber? One thing I do know is Im not going to waste another minute on your bullshit.

Georger - I am not talking about Canon City - I am talking about Jefferson - MO - where he was imprisoned from 1966 to 1968. Bad Boy - again you for got about that weird Commutation of Sentence in 1968 for John C. Collins. aka Duane L. Weber. Obviously I dont know what Im talking about here because there never has been a clearcut presentation of the raw facts, by anyone. So, goodluck to you all! I do know this. The person Duane Weber photographed below does not share any of physical attributes that were attributed to DB Cooper, in any official sketch. Weber and Cooper are two completely diffe 5a8 rent people, physiologically. The fact that nobody here seems to see that or acknowledge it is not my responsibility (thank God!). I also know, Duane's friend at Marietta GA was interviewed and said Duane never claimed to be Cooper. This man knew and worked with Duane for years and was one of Duane's closest friends. This man was very clear about Duane's marraige to Jo and cited comments Duane made about that. This man says that Duane was interested in the Cooper case and Duane said many times he thought he might know 'who Cooper was', and that Duane was referring to Richard McCoy, because Duane had lived at Virginia Beach where McCoy was shot, and many people at Virginia Beach thought McCoy might have been Cooper. This man says that idea was not original with Duane but common public speculation at Virginia beach. This man is also alleged to have said he got a call from Jo after Duane's death and she put forth the idea that Duane had been Cooper! The man says he was stunned. He says Jo asked him to back the story because she was launching a real estate business in Florida and needed the publicity. The man says he refused and told Jo 'never call me again'! But Jo went forth on her own with her story. He says it never was Duane's story during Duane's life but only Jo's story, after Duane died. Why Sluggo has never commented about this, I dont know. It is Sluggo who worked with Jo and knows this story, but he has never commented about this.

Everyone the FBI talked to I have spoke to - over the yrs and recently - NOT one of them claimed Weber was with them. Why? I would have asked for verification? Did the FBI? NO. -------------------------------------------------------- How do you know what the FBI did or did-not do! ? Has it ever occurred to you its the FBI telling you the truth and all the people you keep pestering are lying or concealing not saying things just to keep you away? Think about it. You definately are a thorn in people's sides for many many years! You dont seem to have the faintest idea how you get on people's nerves and disrupt people's lives. To you its a mission. To them its a nightmare they want to go away!

Well that certainly puts Duane in a chute. 377 Which family member? Mo, Curly, or Larry? The guys who give "paratrooper training" may have something to say about this. This physical specimen (photo below) was released from prison in 1962, not "furloughed" from that prison mid 60s as Jo has stated, to be at BuDop in 1967. Jo's own photo proves this. The date is right on the photo in case Jo can't see! Where would the physical specimen Duane pictured below, have received this "paratrooper" training and when? What did they feed him to beef him up - the carcass of a buffalo!? How would his bad hip, weak kidneys, bad feet, bad knee, weak back and anemia all have withstood that? Jo says: "There is no proof Duane was NOT Cooper". Well yes there is. The photo proof is below. I am interested to know how Jo explains her story about Duane being "furloughed" mid 1960s when it turns out he had already been released in 1962! ? Small minor detail I guess. Not even Duane can be in two different places at once, especially when the warden is looking!

'And he found a fresh jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand and seized it, and with it he Samson smote the Philistines who hath cursed my valley forever, saith the Lord Adonai. And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, have I slain a thousand men of the Phillistine this day. Let the sun stand still in the sky to mark this day. And it did. [Judges 15: Jobeth Torah]

Personally I think all the posters in this thread need to jump a 1971 period surplus round parachute and land at the Ariel Tavern for the 40th annual Cooper party on 24 November 2011. oh that's helpful! who are you? Hilary Clinton?

We had a case like this in my family - a cousin who always talked about his service in WWI but he had never been there, and we all knew it, and he knew we all knew it! In every other area of his life he was a huge success. We could never figure out what was driving his lies. But as a kid I always had an image of this family member as some kind of Seargent York, squirrel hunting and chasing the Hun in our countryside. His tales really upset my WWII uncles and one aunt who had lost a son in Belgium. One of my uncles knew an Admiral and finally one day the Admiral came to town to visit my uncle and they went down to visit this cousin at his business. This cousin never talked about his WWI exploits again, at least not openly. But at his death they found a small box of medals and personal papers tucked up high in his closet. These turned out to be the property of one L.R.H. who had actually served in WWI and died, but had no living family. It turned out my cousin and LRH had grown up together as kids, were best friends, and my cousin's wife didnt even know about this. It turned out all of my cousin's WWI tales were in memory of his childhood friend he had lost! We were shocked to find this out. Today people wear POW bracletes of people they never personally knew etc. The connection between my cousin and LRH turned out to be very real, and during pre-induction physicals LRH had passed while my cousin did not. It was just my cousin's way of keeping his friend's memory alive in a backward private way. It turned out my cousin's father had accepted LRH's medals and citations in lieu of LRH having any family and all the old timers knew this, but few beyond them remembered it. Once the story got out in our community several old timers came forward to confirm it was all true.

I found some stats on hijacking. Several major studies were done in South Afrika during the revolt period. Other studies come from the US. Let me cite a few statistics from a Maine study, which may be a little surprising. I can provide links to these studies for anyone interested, and there are further studies available through government links.. 98% male. 90% from marginalized circumstances. 90% white or from the race dominant class. 75% under age 30 20% (30-33) 5% over 40 60% have criminal background/records 78% unmarried 67% have 12th grade or better education. 80% go back to their places of residence after the HJing. 47-60% semi employed or unemployed. 73% no military training. Months most vulnerable: + Jan-Aug Months least vulnerable: Nov-Dec Least=Dec. Days most vulnerable: Fridays 2x all other days. 96% of all HJers were armed. Most often stated motive: economic. Next most stated motive: political-personal. Planning period most often stated: up to a year or more. Less than 2% spontaneous. Nice work Georger. Do we have any idea where the 20% of hijackers who don't go home afterwards, do go to?? yes, there is a breakdown in one of the studies - let me go back and retrieve that tonight.

Thre is an additional catagory of people in the psych literature we havent mentioned before: namely those who make up heroic stories mainly for consumption within their families and among friends, but not for public consumption. I can provide several links to research/stories about such people, if anyone wants. Generally these people are trying to gain influence and affection within their own families or group of friends which they previously felt they did not have, and this can come at the end of life where a person wants to be remembered as someone special. Maybe this is what happened in Duane Weber's case? Generally these people do not intend their stories to leak out but when it does problems can result. A number of well known cases fit into this catagory. I might provide one tomorrow night - here is a link to one such story: http://www.ajc.com/business/airtran-hero-wasn-t-226517.html

Brilliant Snow, in a twisted sort of way. The term sick puppy comes to mind. 377 What do you think of the stats I just posted, in terms of Ckret's profile of Cooper? Good fit? The other studies I have looked at have very similar stats. Now for the clincher which surprised me: There are studies for hijacking ships, planes, land mobiles etc - when you compare the stats for each type of hijacking the same basic core stats seem to apply across the board, not matter the type of hijacking. In other words, from the point of view of the statistical suruveys, a hijacking is a hijacking regardless of type. That can;t be! ? Or can it? If these stats are accurate then chances are Mr. Cooper fits into a neat little catagory, whether he wants to or not. That helps define our Mr. Cooper. For one, he falls into a very small catagory of hijackers over 40 which predicts an x, y, and z... edit: excerpt: [The most famous of all U.S. hijackings took place on November 24, 1971. A man who boarded a flight in Portland, Oregon, under the name of D. B. Cooper hijacked the plane, demanding a ransom of $200,000 and two parachutes. His demands were met and he later bailed out with the money. The idea of a parachute escape may not have originated with Cooper, however; a hijacker who held a Canadian plane for ransom just 12 days earlier had attempted unsuccessfully to bail out (Phillips 1973). A wave of extortion attempts followed Cooper's (see fig. 2). In the following months there were two attempts, including one by a hijacker who demanded a parachute in an apparent attempt to imitate Cooper. Of the 31 U.S. hijacking attempts in 1972, 19 involved extortion and 15 were by hijackers who demanded parachutes. Although there have been hijackings from 1931 to the present, their peak period was 1968-72 (see fig. 1). During that period there were 326 hijacking attempts worldwide, or one every 5.6 days. These included 137 attempts by individuals who boarded flights in the United States, or one such attempt every 13.3 days. Newspapers, television, and other mass media constantly carried stories about aircraft hijackings, and it was often suggested that the motivation to hijack planes spread from individual to individual as a result of the media coverage. ]

I found some stats on hijacking. Several major studies were done in South Afrika during the revolt period. Other studies come from the US. Let me cite a few statistics from a Maine study, which may be a little surprising. I can provide links to these studies for anyone interested, and there are further studies available through government links.. 98% male. 90% from marginalized circumstances. 90% white or from the race dominant class. 75% under age 30 20% (30-33) 5% over 40 60% have criminal background/records 78% unmarried 67% have 12th grade or better education. 80% go back to their places of residence after the HJing. 47-60% semi employed or unemployed. 73% no military training. Months most vulnerable: + Jan-Aug Months least vulnerable: Nov-Dec Least=Dec. Days most vulnerable: Fridays 2x all other days. 96% of all HJers were armed. Most often stated motive: economic. Next most stated motive: political-personal. Planning period most often stated: up to a year or more. Less than 2% spontaneous.

Jumpers have been snagged on jumpships by straps looping around protruding structures. When they finally get unsnagged there is nothing that remains with the plane. Still, would you get a pressure bump if Cooper didnt actually depart? I assumed the bump came primarily from the stairs coming back up when relieved of Cooper's weight, as shown in the FBI 727 sled test. If he were still snagged or hanging on, I assume the stairs would remain deflected downwards and would come back up when he left. I wonder if he could have done sort of a bounce on the stairs to create a bump and then remained on the stairs for another 5 or 10 minutes or even longer. His later departure bump might not have been noticed as clearly as the first one was. If the crew were in a mindset that he had already departed they might miss the second one. Also, if his delayed departure was done during turbulence bumps it might be missed. The Tena Bar money find argues against all that though. 377 I think (stress "I think") you have to close the hole in the fuselage in order to get a sudden pressue differential. The hole has to have been open, plane flying unpressurised, then the hole suddenly closes .... meaning the stair assembly closed shut ( as per the test done later). If the stairs are shut, nothing protruding, all smooth surfaces at the rear, what is left to snag a chute assembly on? Nothing that I can tell? I think the pressure bump and his jump are connected. How could he fake that? Plus, this was a short time after Tina saw him getting ready to jump, then following him answering a PA call, then the pressure bump ... all in sequence. How could he fake jumping later unless he comes back inside and waits until the stairs close then reopens the stairs and jumps later all of which would create a second series of pressure changes ..... The one thing I do not understand is how/why were the stairs open to any extent when the plane landed at Reno? I thought the stairs had slammed shut after his jump? Evidently the stairs did not lock shut when they slammed shut, temporarily? The stairs were definately far enough down at Reno that when the plane landed the stairs threw sparks seen by CBS news crews and others. But each time the stairs close with the plane in motion you must get a pressure change inside the tube of the fuselage.

or somehow got snagged on the stairs then drops later ... but they didnt find any cloth or evidence of a snag at Reno. Im sorry but I just dont see the money at Tina Bar getting there by a complex hydrological solution, but dropped there or near there, because there is not one item of evidence inthe money (so far) that indicates it was ever anywhere else. If the money floated to T Bar it either got there very early or later with debris carrying it there, because a bag of wet money does not float!

[ Hmm.. that's an assumption. Let's think this through: maybe Cooper thought that his chances of real escape were better if the Feds had no clue where he jumped ... if they thought they had to search the entire route it would have taken much longer, and then fanning out from there would take longer still. (Especially if he was about to hop on a plane to Asia... the longer the Feds were delayed the better?) A key question here is how well Cooper knew the 727 tests and specifically if he knew about the pressure bump. If he was 'just' a jumper... well, I wouldn't have guessed you could feel a jumper leaving from a plane that large. So maybe he didn't think they knew where he had jumped, and maybe he did take a bit of a time to bury it deeply. After all he probably knew he had a bit of time to cover his tracks properly. If he landed near (not in) water, maybe he even put rocks in the rig and submerged it? This is an intriguing idea. The 'dont know where I jumped idea'.... doesnt really matter how well he knows a 727 to attempt this. But, if he's going to hop a plane after he has survived what is the closest airport? PDX. What is close to PDX? Tina Bar. What did Cooper do in recompense to Tina? Offered her some of the money. Did he borrow a boat at Tina Bar and bury money with a marker in payment? something like that?

Snow had an intriguing highly qualified suspect who resided in SE Asia right before Norjack. If your neighbors thought you were travelling to the US perhaps never to return you could die and not be missed by them. The absence of hard evidence turns us all into raving lunatic speculators. That's just the way it is down here in the dank Cooper forum cave. We need to get out more. Let's go make some crop circles when things dry out. Lets do it near the Washougal. 377 Jerry and I have discussed caves and rock burial sites in that area one could slip into for a few days and hide things under - it sure beats Sluggo's digging up cemeteries around Scotton!

would you believe 13 of them in different parts of the country? all in realty.

Maybe he wasnt missed and people knew exactly where and what had happened to him - a few may have even gone looking for him! I once was hunting turkies. I happened on cyote tracks followjng turkey tracks down a long canyon. I followed the cyote tracks. Finally caught a glimpse of the cyote belly down in the snow looking out into another deep ravene. I crawled up and finally rouster the cyote out (was he ever surprised), and then shot a few turkies! If you cant find the damned turkies follow something or someone who can and is also looking?

Although I heavily discount conspiracy theories, this isnt the first time a big dollar migration away from a Microsoft product has caused a major blow up. Do those those who leave the flock suffer the pre-programmed wrath of Gates-god? Hope things get fixed soon. I wonder what the "serious research" Sluggo hinted about is doing? I recall Galen saying that a sample of Gosset's DNA was available. Wonder it was ever run against the supposed Cooper tie DNA? 377 Aol, was down in this area for 3 days off and on.

Great job, the maps! I sometimes cant sleep so am up and start working again and find these periods productive ... I think many people do this. Good job!

If its in an oxy free zone you might be right. I wonder how salt water would affect the money or metal chute parts? When Tosaw's group found Nile Kinnick's WWII plane they said the salt water has dissolved it so badly it could not be raised ... You also bring up secret FBi evidence. Im sure they have a few things - hope so anyway. But, they might not also. I was thinking about this after I posted to Orange and something struck me... go back to when Hancock came back for her purse. She found Cooper putting on his chute, even before the take off at SEA. She might have seen something else we dont know about; like Tina saw or heard something that has not been revealed. But, it also struck me that Cooper was vulnerable during that period when Hancock came in. Now if Hancock had been a female FBI agent resembling Alice .... well

Great post, Orange. I think you've hit the nail on the head. So if what you say is true, how could that be? There's a simple answer that everything else flows from - - - perhaps the most difficult answer for people to accept, including the FBI! Lack of hard evidence. Let me try and some it up: Unknown guy with somewhat contradictory traits hijacks an airplane, which after leaving Seattle takes an ill-defined route, then Unknown guy leaves the plane by a parachute bailing at an unknown place into an unknown fate, with $200,000 dollars in a bag. Only two pieces of evidence ever turn up in apparently unconnected places. One of the largest invesigations ever conducted turns up - nothing! Into the backwash of that void then flows the dreams, desires, ambitions, talents, time, et cetera of people's lives for 37+ years. Still nothing turns up! And we are basically back right where it all started 38 years earlier with the clock on the wall right where it was when this started - and the hands on the clock have not changed one minute! This case might as well be sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic somewhere near the Titanic, maybe?, yet to be stumbled onto. Maybe a sea shrimp or some grizzley bear's kids know what happened? That is how I see this case.

POOF! 377 Its a total mess here today with the Mediacom outage.

NPR and Ira Flato don't investigate guests' politics before selecting them. It's all about science. My kid was interviewed by Ira Flato on Science Friday. His stance on guns was irrelevant. Let's see if Neil can be enticed to look at Cooper. It is a hell of a mystery. Physical and social science may hold the key. We sure don't. 377 My thoughts exactly. The problem you will run into is whether people like Tyson have the time; another opinion is if this should be done privately. Someone of Tyson's stature would elevate the discussion, something badly needed in my opinion. BTW: 700,000+ Mediacom users lost their email service early last week and it is still not restored. A major fiasco now with no date-certain when things will be restored... their webmail does not even work because there is no email to put up on their webmail page! Mediacom is pointing the finger at Outlook and Outlook express, in spite of Mediacom also requiring customers to use that software! Mediacom tried to "migrate" its email service to a cheaper provider and everything blew up.. whatever 'migrate' means in this context. They picked the worst time possible right now at the Holidays ... Mediacom is not regulated by any Utility Board in any State where it operates ... that may now change.