georger

I agree, but Cooper could have done all this by accident rather than design. Toss the briefcase first causing a pressure bump, then later gingerly descending only the first step or two and leaping. Its not out of the question. 377 no way is tossing one brief case out the back going to cause a pressure 'wave' unless it Him going out then coming back in. The hole has to be reduced or opened to a significant degree to change pressure. The same applies to standing at different positions on the stairs with respect to the hole.

[ Put all of your bias aside concerning me - and then examine this second actual snapshot - add these features into the distorted area caused by the glasses and lighting and age. (The ears are bent over from the thickness of the stems pushing the ears out and creating the Pointy ears you have mentioned in the past). I had NO early photos of Duane - actually what little I do have now was sent by his family a few yrs ago. Jo you are not understanding what I have been saying:Im talking about overall ear shape, which is genetically determined. This has nothing to do with wearing glasses or no glasses. When I refer to Duane's ears as 'elf ears' or 'pointed/pointy' I am referring to an actual ear type not poking fun at Duane's ears. Ear morphology is genetically determined & remains constant throughout life. Duane's ear shape remained constant throughout his life as evidenced by the photos you have posted (attached below). Duane's ear type is distinctive and was not reported by any Cooper witness or included on any Cooper sketch. Duane's ears are not of the free-lobe type as was reported for Cooper, but of the attached-lobe type. (see anatomical chart attached) Moeover, Duane's ears were of the pointed-helix type vrs. a smooth-round-helix type assigned to Cooper. And last but not least, the apex of Duane's helix is displaced at least 10 degrees backward off the centerline of the ear canal. All of these traits make for a very distinctive ear shape, not reported for Cooper.

My claims about the area are local knowledge..after I got out of the USAF I went back to FL for 18 months then I moved to Vancouver in 1982... and went to Clark College.. and then moved to Portland to go to Portland State. I lived in the area for till 1999 when I moved up here. During those years I trapsed all over the area hiking.. climbing hunting.. taking classes up into the mountains for parks and recreation to make a few extra bucks..get my drift??? I sense geology in your background? Portland State? Thanks, G.

Interesting idea. Wouldn't that argue for an urban LZ target where a businessman would blend in? It would look pretty strange to see a soaking wet businessman walking along a rural road with a briefcase in a winter storm. I DO think one could exit a stock 727 with the stairs down without causing a big pressure bump. The trick would be to minimize stair deflection and resulting rebound when your weight is removed. The key is to leave the plane from a position high on the stairs. I think that would be doable. What do other jumpers think? 377 The dress idea is just an idea. I agree walking out of the bush in dress suit - looks pretty crazy! (Maybe a crazy man thought the idea up?) I somehow doubt Cooper invested a lot worrying about the physics of step recoil, oscillations, bump, flexure, positions on stairs where best to eliminate or minimise physical effects ... after all, he didnt understand the lowering of the stairs vs take off and landing, then he could get the door open ... etc etc. Somehow Idont see our Cooper as someone good at opening vaults!? I could be wrong -

Um... I must have missed this somewhere along the many posts. Chemicals consistent with an explosive device were found on the tie? "Might be consistent with" .... not definately are. Read my comments again. This really is the best I can do at the moment - sorry. This has been lurking - going back to when silver nitrate from finger printing was mentioned.

Anyone who has done 4-way will tell you that bad exits will cause the outside-center to get twisted around. Shoulders, elbows, and wrists get a lot of torque. A briefcase would most likely injure your wrist on exit or be extremely difficult to hold on to. I believe he was observed to be tieing the reserve bag onto his body. The money would go in it (otherwise what would be the point). Where did the briefcase go? He could not attach all the money, so he offered some to the flight attendant. She refused, so he put it in the briefcase and tossed it. It landed in/near a body of water. If it stayed nearly intact, it could be transported from dry land during a spring flood of a following year. He waited and jumped with his money sometime after that point. Let me pose some questions: _ How big was the money bag? Large enough to hold all the money just as delieverd to the plane. Any room left over, to store what? Not large enough to house the money and the brief case? Or parts from the briefcase? _ What would account for chemistry consistent with an explosive materials being found on the tie and on some of the money? Was Cooper's bomb real after all? The FBI and Jerry maintain the bomb was only road flares and a battery incapable of igniting either flares or dynamite detonators. What accounts for the wires coming out of the sticks, whatever the red sticks were?If the chemistry found on the tie and the money is from road flares (not dynamite) how did these materials get on the money? Is the chemistry from an explosion somehow different from explosive materials per se, or road flare materials per se? _ Did Cooper go straight at tying the bank bag to his waste or did he experiment (try) other methods first - what did Tina actually see? _ If the stairs slammed shut creating the pressure 'bump' how did the stairs get back open to be open enough to cause sparks on landing at Reno? _ Are not "oscillations" and "bump" events linked to a common cause or scenario? (ie stairs down, then stairs slamming up shut)? All of this usually associated with a bail-out scenario? Could anyone bail out via the back stairs without causing these symptoms (that is what 377 is asking) ? _ Would an explosion behind or behind-and-below the aircraft cause the same effects as the oscillations/bump we know happened? Or do the stair scenario and an explsoion scenario produce different effect? _ If Cooper appeared at the airport looking like a 'business man', could his dress have been intended to have him walk out (after landing) looking like a business man (complete with a brief case)? . . . . businness man IN, business man OUT !

I think you are making valid points - Of course if he bails south of Portland then how does any money get back to Tina Bar except by hand or the Willamette?

I am just waiting for them or anyone else to explain these guys swimming the backstroke upstream.... Let me reveal my lack of knowledge (and nobody going years back ever bothered to answer me this)! 'Can you even row a rowboat against the current on the Columbia, so as to get across?' Say I was at Tina Bar and wanted to get over to the Portland side? Could I row or swim against the current at all? Nope.. you will not be able to swim across from there to Portland. That is upstream.. you could swim across but its quite wide, about 1/2 mile at the very least. The water that time of year is about 45 degrees... trust me I know.. since I lived on my boat for 3 years just upstream at Willow Bar on Sauvie Island. The docks were very slick in the winter months and I slid into that cold ass water off the docks more than once in the winter. The current is usually about 2 to 5 knots depending on the amount of rain flowing into the river from its tributaries like the Sandy River, the Washougal River and the big one.. the Willamette River which joins the Columbia just below the I-5 Bridge. All of those are below the dam and the amount of water being released from Bonneville Dam also has an effect. if you had a racing shell you could probably row upstream but in November with the higher flows.. you will tire very quickly. I have rowed with the river before and crossed it but usually end up quite a ways downstream when doing it. This is about what I always thought, based on experiences swimming the Mississippi, in my youth. Thanks.

I read your post loud and clear - good post! Sluggo and I tossed this idea around some time ago (behind the scenes), without resolution. I wondered if the ignition would have been seen by the trailing jets - ? The other thought is Cooper's bomb ignited after he bailed.

I am just waiting for them or anyone else to explain these guys swimming the backstroke upstream.... Let me reveal my lack of knowledge (and nobody going years back ever bothered to answer me this)! 'Can you even row a rowboat against the current on the Columbia, so as to get across?' Say I was at Tina Bar and wanted to get over to the Portland side? Could I row or swim against the current at all?

wooooooops!

I havnt reconciled all of your points but esentially I agree. You know this area "much better" than I do. I am not a native to this area. And some of these drainage issues have been stated before - partly by you because of your knowledge of this area. At issue (for one thing) is the integrity of the PI and NWA Transcripts. There must be compatability between the money find (money facts), the flight path, and the transcripts, as well as collateral evidence. If the Washougal is going to serve as the route of conveyance then Washougal drainage issues apply (as you point out). Can a eastern flight route which activates the Washougal as a delivery route be consistent with the parameters the PI and NWA transcripts set forth, not to mention other collateral evidence which is documented?

Attached is an approximation of the Jerry Thomas flight path, according to Jerry's specifications and other known facts in the Cooper case. I have incorporated a number of features in my rendering to provide context. The Jerry Thomas flight path requires the following or the Thomas flight path cannot happen: (1) The flight begins at SEA and ends at RNO. (2) V23 must comprise some portion of #305's flight path south. (3) The rear door placard from N467US is deposited on the ground below V23 near Toutle WA. (4) N467US must be near enough PDX in the time frame ~20:15:56 to activate PDX's transmission of Alt data to N467US. But, N467US cannot be near BTG at the time of this transmission but somewhere east of BTG approaching Troutdale (as per Jerry's scenario). (5) Cpt Bohan was wrong. Bohan and his Continental flight were not trailing and above N467US in Bohan's approach to PDX. (6) The military jets trailing N467US were east of V23 also. (7) Himmelsbach's helicopter was headed toward an intercept point significantly east, northeast, or southeast of PDX... (8) The Thomas flight path must accomodate all events independetly verified as having taken place south of PDX as involved Oakland, Reno, etc. (9) The Thomas flight scenario must occur between 19:33 (SEA liftoff) and Reno ILS at 22:46. N467US circled at Reno beginning at 22:46 and finally landed (after checking the back for Cooper) at 23:02. There is independent verification of these events - (10) The Thomas flight path requires a rejection of substantial portions of the Pi and NWA Transcripts in terms of content and time tables. The transcripts and the Thomas flight scenario are incompatable in terms of fuel consumption, velocities, altitudes, locations, time tables and time scales, et cetera. (11) The flight path of N467US between SEA and Reno generated many independent records in many places. Any flight path must account for all the independently verified records in evidence. This is not a he-said she-said issue. ps* Sluggo, I can forward to you my larger complete map (in bmp) if you like? Let me know and thanks again for everything this Holiday.

You are in the wrong forum. This has been told to you before. You would do better in a Yahoo Support Group; here is one fitting your condition. http://www.narcissism-abuse-recovery.com/narcissism-support-group_forum.htm l Guidelines for the Narcissistic Abuse Support Forum The Guidelines are as follows: This is not a place where you will go to tell your victim story over and over again. We do not want to hear what he or she did to you this time! We want you to focus on what you are learning about yourself and your own progress. I recommend you post your story at the very beginning of your enrollment in this group so others will know you and where you are coming from. Then it is time to begin re-writing your story. By all means please do not try to play the expert for others here, or ask or demand others do your bidding here. Manipulation is one of the symptoms of the Narcicistic Personality. You will gain much repsect if you refrain from your old habits. Your focus is to be strictly on your own recovery. You are not to give advise to others at this stage but are encouraged to share what you are learning in your own experiences. This prevents us from focusing too much outside of ourselves and keep our energy where it needs to be. On our own self-improvement. We do give encouragement. We encourage each other to look within for our own answers. This is empowerment. If someone asks for suggestions or feedback than feel free to respond. Newcomers are asked not to give advice until they become familiar with the group. We learn to see each other in our highest light. Remember we are all in training to be our fully empowered selves so this is what we want to encourage in each other. See the highest and the best in each person here. Respect the differences of opinions! We are all beautifully unique and have our own voices. This is a safe place in which to express our own truth in a respectful way. Encourage Dreams! We are the creators of our own reality so we may as well create a beautiful one! Lets encourage each other to dream big. We need healthy dreaming which frees, not the nightmares we have been having. There is no time limit on when one should begin socializing again. However we encourage one does not begin close personal contact until he/she has regained a strong sense of self and feels ready. One should socialize from a full cup not an empty one! We don't look outside of ourselves for someone to fill our cup. We learn to fill our own and this can happen quickly or slowly. Although this support group is based on spiritual recovery it is non-religious. All beliefs are welcome and respected. We acknowledge that we will have a greater sense of recovery when we approach it from a psycho-spiritual perspective rather than a stricly psychological perspective. We will most likely be talking about methods used in the book such as psychic chord cutting, energy work and psychic conversations. These are effective methods to cut the energetic chords that tie us to someone who is still feeding from our energy. It is O.K. to express your deepest pain here and share your feelings. However we encourage you to log in on good days and bad days so you are sure to post the progress you are making. It is also helpful to others when you share both. KUDOS! Lets celebrate each other as we transition to each level and also for the small successes along the way! Also celebrate yourself! Do something special for you! I want to hear about the things you all do to celebrate yourself! go here to sign up for our free support forum for recovery from narcissistic abuse https://login.yahoo.com/config/login_verify2?.intl=us&.src=ygrp&.done=http%3a//health.groups.yahoo.com%2Fgroup%2Fnarcissism-recovery%2Fjoin More for Jos. Weber: Browse for more specialized Yahoo Groups: Abortion Recovery (67) · Abuse Survivors (1204) · Abduction, UFO, Religion (40583) Addiction and Recovery (4691) · Care Giving (1058) · Diseases and Conditions (19111) · Dissociative - Delusional (13094) Domestic Violence (501) · Foreclosure - Econmic (18576) Hospice · Mourning and Loss (12594) · Nursing Home · Procedures and Therapies (422) · Narcicism - BiPolar - (41034) Rape (215) · Social - Economic - Political (55984) Schizophrenia - Paranoid Type (3967) Suicide (378) · Weight Issues (6789)

His HOME phone number ! That was just about the most stupid thing anyone could do in a public forum. Sure - one can get "most" phone numbers thru the computer if they want them bad enough...unless they are unlisted...or using other measures. Perhaps Jerry needs this lesson regarding fraud: True story. One woman got calls from a mortgage company - about a loan being placed on her home which was clear and free. Well, it seems that she later started getting calls about her payments not being made several months later. Well - there was a 50K lien against her home when the county checked. Of course, the bank who did this - had to drop the loan because it was fraud by an employee or someone else who had enough information to prove they actually were this person. (I do not know how this could have been done with out the lender and the borrower both being crooks). The woman was ill and if she had died - her children would have assumed she was the one who took the loan. The woman did die after this was discovered and before it could be resolved - the stress of it destroyed her...and took from her time she could have enjoyed - instead the stress made her last months on this earth HELL. Jerry check your County records every 6 months - Check your credit reports - you get one a yr free, but you will need to do this every 3 months for a few yrs -if you want to be financially safe. Why dont you drop all your personal attacks and implied threats and let the World have a Christmas? You did this through Thanksgiving and probably spoiled that for a few people. Go take a walk or something - make it last a few days. Into the weekend would be nice! The world does not revolve around Jo Weber - WHOEVER THAT IS!

Here's to all of you - A HAPPY MERRY HOLIDAYS - to you & yours. Georger

Good stuff. Anyone who goes to see Jo Weber deserves a medal, no questions asked. So you make the list. In the middle of the StLouis riots in '69 an old black man (retired brick layer) filled two 5 gal buckets with water and backed his truck out and went to a large building being torn apart, made his way in through the mob, and started laying brick back up ... the shocked crowd backed off and left ... his name was 'something' Townsend.

some did, some didnt, most didnt, many never got the chance to find out ... McCoy did (thats one reason he can serve as a model). Do we include ressurections? Duane never got off the autopsy table. Jo cant clame Duane was the Mesaiah, or can she?.

give me a few minutes - have holiday events today - trying to do too many things at once - Thanks.

It all depends on the area now doesn't it Jerry. Both companies own vast tracts of land in SW Washington. Lets not look at the map of the Gifford Pinchot NF today.. but the way it was back in 1971. Maybe your senior moments are preventing you from remembering that the government and the timber companies did quite a bit of swapping of land after Mt St Helens and the consolidation that led to Reagans signing the National Monument into being in 1982. They traded whole sections of land all over that area so they could set the boundries of the monument literally as a set aside forever. Face it there is a HELL of a lot clear cuts all over the area.. INCLUDING on national forest land. The only areas not cut have some special significance like the Mt St Helens monument the Big Lava Bed or the Trapper Creek Wilderness, .............................. The issue is: what was it like on 11-24-71, not in the 80s. Clearcuts are an option IF you know the DZ. White Buffalo Woman was quick to use this soncept in her creation story. Keep in mind, Cooper had no idea where they were going (or where they were?) except that they were presumably headed south toward Reno. They almost went out to the ocean instead of taking V23. Cooper never specified V23 or any route. Cooper's only recourse to knowing where he was was by looking out the window (so far as we know) - star patterns and the position of the Moon could have given him an idea what direction the plane was traveling if he saw these, if he looked at all ... McCoy on the other hand knew exactly where he was. Cooper's actions tend to imply his dominant concern was just getting off the plane once airborn, anywhere as soon after liftoff as possible. The facts dont agree with White Buffalo Woman's account for Duane, at all!

Yes by all means read it. Bruce for got to ask Rat the crucial questions! I asked Bruce to call Rat back and ask him the crucial questions. When he did not, I called Rat myself, but White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka said I couldnt post Rat's answers.

That thought struck years ago - Thatis why White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka copywrites everything she says/does. White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka is in charge fo this production -

you forgot: White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka runs the FAA, and all other manifestations of the human animal too!

Hancock and Mucklow saw Cooper suiting up - except for dawning a chut he changed nothing. Went out as he came in. White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka says this is so.

White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka said: I believe the book is titled What Really Happened by Max Gunther. I have more cognitive knowledge of this crime than you have. You have been no more than a deterrent all of these yrs. The things you claimed I said to others (being media) and in this forum will come back to haunt you more than you are already haunted by the horrors you have buried in your mind from the past. I can assure you that Duane Weber was involved in this crime and eventually it will be proven but without your help. Did I say involved? There are those who would say anything to you just to get you out of their hair. You believe whatever you want to believe or whatever makes you happy until the time comes. You think you are part of the Cooper story? All of the things you have said on this forum that are not true and that horrible phone call will be all they will remember - can you handle that? Is that how you want your family to remember you - this man who goes to a forum and says these things to a woman whose husband it turns out really was involved in the hijacking. Well, as it stand right now that is how you will be remembered. You will NOT be part of the story and you will not be remembered or for that matter acknowledge. You will be a bad memory for those involved in this part of the investigation. Maybe you will be remembered as a Screwed up Veteran who spent his life in the woods searching for Cooper's bones and who repeatedly called anyone who claimed to have any knowledge of the crime - a liar or a fiction writer. You will be remembered only for how badly you treated me and any untruths you have told and the grief you have caused. What you told about Duane's friend will NEVER beforgotten, nor the fact that my encounters with you were nothing but unpleasant. Can you handle that?