georger

The White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka showed the people how to use the pipe. She filled it with chan-shasha, red willow-bark tobacco. She walked around the lodge four times after the manner of Anpetu-Wi, the great sun. This represented the circle without end, the sacred hoop, the road of life. The woman placed a dry buffalo chip on the fire and lit the pipe with it. This was peta-owihankeshini, the fire without end, the flame to be passed on from generation to generation. She told them that the smoke rising from the bowl was Tunkashila's breath, the living breath of the great Grandfather Mystery. The White Buffalo Woman showed the people the right way to pray, the right words and the right gestures. She taught them how to sing the pipe-filling song and how to lift the pipe up to the sky, toward Grandfather, and down toward Grandmother Earth, to Unci, and then to the four directions of the universe. "With this holy pipe," she said, "you will walk like a living prayer. With your feet resting upon the earth and the pipestem reaching into the sky, your body froms a living bridge between the Sacred Beneath and the Sacred Above. Wakan Tanka smiles upons us, because now we are as one: earth, sky, all living things, the two-legged, the four-legged, the winged ones, the trees, the grasses. Together with the people, they are all related, one family. The pipe holds them all together." "Look at this bowl," said the White Buffalo Woman. "Its stone represents the buffalo, but also the flesh and blood of the red man. The buffalo represents the universe and the four directions, because he stands on four legs, for the four ages of man. The buffalo was put in the west by Wakan Tanka at the making of the world, to hold back the waters. Every year he loses one hair, and in every one of the four ages he loses a leg. The Sacred Hoop will end when all the hair and legs of the great buffalo are gone, and the water comes back to cover the Earth. The wooden stem of this chanunpa stands for all that grows on the earth. Twelve feathers hanging from where the stem- the backbone- joins the bowl- the skull- are from Wanblee Galeshka, the spotted eagle, the very sacred who is the Great Spirit's messenger and the wisest of all cry out to Tunkashila. Look at the bowl: engraved in it are seven circles of various sizes. They stand for the seven ceremonies you will pratice with this pipe, and for the Ocheti Shakowin, the seven sacred campfires of our Lakota nation." The White Buffalo Woman then spoke to the women, telling them that it was the work of their hands and the fruit of their bodies which kept the people alive. "You are from the mother earth," she told them. "What you are doing is as great as what warriors do." And therefore the sacred pipe is also something that binds men and women together in a circle of love. It is the one holy object in the making of which both men and women have a hand. The men carve the bowl and make the stem; the women decorate it with bands of colored porcupine quills. When a man takes a wife, they both hold the pipe at the same time and red cloth is wound around their hands, thus tying them together for life. The White Buffalo Woman had many things for her Lakota sisters in her sacred womb bag; corn, wasna (pemmican), wild turnip. She taught how to make the hearth fire. She filled a buffalo paunch with cold water and droped a red-hot stone into it. "This way you shall cook the corn and the meat," she told them. The White Buffalo Woman also talked to the children, because they have an understanding beyond their years. She told them that what their fathers and mothers did was for them, that their parents could remember being little once, and that they, the children, would grow up to have little ones of their own. She told them: "You are the coming generation, that's why you are the most important and precious ones. Some day you will hold this pipe and smoke it. Some day you will pray with it." She spoke once more to all the people: "The pipe is alive; it is a red being showing you a red life and a red road. And this is the first ceremony for which you will use the pipe. You will use it to Wakan Tanka, the Great Mystery Spirit. The day a human dies is always a sacred day. The day when the soul is released to the Great Spirit is another. Four women will become sacred on such a day. They will be the ones to cut the sacred tree, the can-wakan, for the sun dance." She told the Lakota that they were the purest among the tribes, and for that reason Tunkashila had bestowed upon them the holy chanunpa. They had been chosen to take care of it for all the Indian people on this turtle continent. She spoke one last time to Standing Hollow Horn, the chief, saying, "Remember: this pipe is very sacred. Respect it and it will take you to the end of the road. The four ages of creation are in me; I am the four ages. I will come to see you in every generation cycle. I shall come back to you." The sacred woman then took leave of the people, saying: "Toksha ake wacinyanktin ktelo, I shall see you again." The people saw her walking off in the same direction from which she had come, outlined againest the red ball of the setting sun. As she went, she stopped and rolled over four times. The first time, she turned into a black buffalo; the second into a brown one; the third into a red one; and finally, the fouth time she rolled over, she turned into a white female buffalo calf. A white buffalo is the most sacred living thing you could ever encounter. The White Buffalo Woman disappeared over the Horizon. Sometime she might come back. As soon as she had vanished, buffalo in great herds appeared, allowing themselves to be killed so tha the people might survive. And from that day on, our relations, the buffalo, furnished the people with everthing they needed, meat for their food, skins for their clothes and tipis, bones for their many tools.

I agree the LD could have been a little more east than what we have been told, but NOT into the forest above the Washougal or East of the Washougal....just didn't happen. Jerry gets his kicks out of declaring Cooper died by taking them into an area that is off the charts (per the vector and wind drifts) - that is just NOT how it was. He has NO documented proof the plane was that FAR EAST. One thing you guys need to do is obtain a copy of the all famous Palmer report on that money - make the FBI provide it. That Palmer report needs to be made a part of the FIOA...don't take anyones word for what it say -demand to see it. Why? What's your connection between Palmer's report and the Flight Path? What could the Palmer report tell us bout the flight path?

that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done. that isnt far off Jerry's estimate either, I think. Jerry? Remember your last search area? Vector NE from there?? So long as we wind up coming in over Troutdale (Jerry's requirement). Is this possible?

The Bohan flight path, winds at 166* on my nose ? 4 mins behind and 4000ft above #305. ?????

It hit me going to bed last night I had made an error - its Tularemia (not trichinosis) that affects soft tissue in rabbits most, not trichinosis; white/yellow spots on the liver, lungs, spleen... sorry about that. G.

Good school. Anthropologists & Stateside physicians helped set up those survival courses back in the 60s. Still have some old memrographed spiral bound training manuals from those courses. .... dont eat polar bear liver. Hyper vitaminosis. Vitamin A. I have a far better reason to stay away from those livers.. if you are in Mr Polar Bears territory.... YOU are part of HIS food chain. And most aircrew dont fly with anything that will do anything more than piss off Mr. Bear... let alone the M6 survival rifles that were in some kits with the 22/.410. Only a macho idiot would think they could down a bear that size with that weapon... I am a damn good hunter and I sure as hell would not try it...unless as a last resort. Exactly. Im changing my mind. I think Snow should drop in without shoes, or even with some loafers on, simply for the education. Education he will get. Just straighten the liability issues out first. Even if Snow drops in and gets out without major injuries, it still doesnt mean Cooper did or did not get away ... because we simply dont know if any of this applies. I just want liability issues addressed for everyone's protection.... because at length I think Snow just might do this, unless his 15th cousin is coming for Xmas and he cant miss that!

There were no polar bears in Vietnam. I always thought that was kind of funny. Rabbit liver? Will have to check that out but the problem with rabbits as far as I know is not vitamin over abundance but things like trichinosis which can settle in the liver. Most wild bunnies caught in a cold environment dont have trich ... since most service is not in the Arctic I always thought the program at Eielson was kind of a sight seeing tour to say you had been to Alaska, until I found out half the best pilot in Nam had been to Eielson then everyone wanted to go there .... like Vikings headed for Florida via Greenland. That was the 60s. Today kids seek out these military school because in fact they are VF schools! There's the difference today and somebody had to set the foundations for all of this - otherise its the school of hard knocks and lots of folks dont survive that.

Good example of dumbass military training. Spend time talking about eating polar bear livers. Like that's something you need to worry about. Meanwhile, the dumbass soldiers go to take a piss outside with just their inner boots on and slide down the mountain with their pants around their knees. Yes. Its funny. Maybe even pathetic. Myopic? But its small details like that that can save a person's life and trip you up. (every Eskimow knows that). Pays to be attentive. But small details like that is hardly the full course! The intro course is not the full course. Every mil program knows that. It has to start somewhere with something. Many people to get through in small amount of time ... on to the next school. Its all intro. It adds up however to a fully functioning Marine or pilot or whatever. Its demanding ... keeping the proper attitude is the most demanding. Fuck the course work. Youc an always take that again, if you are alive to do it!

It’s because Jerry WAS Hahneman (see photo). Cool. I like that...

Okay, you're on. Set a date. Reserve the chopper (you're paying, remember) (I have no idea what helis will fly in winter and what won't? I'm assuming we're talking low elevations?) Dougan Falls is only 700 ft elevation. Are we mimicing some Cooper theory, or just trying to see if you can off me? You won't, because you're full of shit. You rent a chopper, I'll be there. (edit) To be fair, the main negative for me is not being in tip-top shape. Although I'm in fair shape so it's not like I'm going to drop dead. Ideally you give me 12 weeks lead time. But if we gotta go now. Okay. I'll cover my airfare to whatever airport you pick. You cover your travel to pick me up. Or I meet you at the helicopter. You pay in advance. I call and check with the pilot to make sure you're on the level. 377 can come if he wants to watch. (edit) Lake Merwin altitude is only 144 feet. Do I get any idea where we're going? Where do we meet? What am I allowed to wear/bring? Can I hide stuff on my body? I'm assuming that the "end" is when I post to the forum? I believe that any superficial injuries I receive don't count as failure? (is death the only failure or ???) How many empty bottles or cans are in front of you right now? I want you to clear up any liability issues with Jerry before Jerry's friend will drop your dumb ass - anywhere! You must also carry a cell phone or satellite phone. Jerry says no, but I say YES. I think you are both NUTS!

I want to be alone in the woods with him and convince him to pull a weapon on me too, so I can beat the shit out of him. I'm tired of these assholes with guns like Jerry and Sluggo. Like it means shit. (edit) Jerry: I'm 6'4". Right now I weigh 190-195. My usual good weight is 180-185. You know what I'm tired of? All these women who startle when I come around the corner, like I'm supposed to apologize for scaring them. I'll take it out on you. sounds to me like you never really have been to town yet ... and seen the Elephant! Next circus that comes to town, go! Visit the gal in the back tent. She will show you... the Elephant! Talk about naive?

That's not been my experience. I have a friend who is ex USCG. He doesn't have a degree but he's smart as hell. He was a top main frame troubleshooter for IBM back in the day. He did far more than blindly swap circuit cards. He can fix anything from diesel engines to radar transceivers. A guy I work with has long hair in a pony tail but spent many years in the left seat of a B 52G bomber. He is creative and flexible. Smart as hell too with degrees in law and engineering. There are dummies in uniform and dummies in expensive suits. 377 Hate to say it but just another one of Snow's sweeping generalisations. There are "dumb" people in every walk of life ....... banking comes to mind! Which is worse? Myopic or Dumb? Not sure there's any difference. But all types are required to do a day's work on Earth. Crazy people is another matter!

I did the USAF Cool School at Eilson AFB in DEC of 1972.. and served as a SERE instructor for 8 years.. I had lots of fun going camping all over the world compliments of the USAF. I am sure you know the USAF training gave the students far less gear when they were doing survival training.... If I would have had my way I would have extended their training a bit by hucking them from planes as well. Good school. Anthropologists & Stateside physicians helped set up those survival courses back in the 60s. Still have some old memrographed spiral bound training manuals from those courses. .... dont eat polar bear liver. Hyper vitaminosis. Vitamin A.

all valid points! Nobody can speak for Larry but I cn say he is more aware of the possibilities than you seem tothink, in spite of his 'words'. Larry is very intelligent and very well trained, in a network of people equally smart and well-trained. Why am I even saying this? You know that's the case. The Weber Effect is not real. Tom Kaye's feelings about Palmer are a deduction based on Tom's measurements. Tom is no fool either (in my opnion) but I have no way of knowing if his measurements are correct or not. Jerry Thomas is of no value whatever in this because: Jerry Thomas is fixated on Austin Healey's and Jo Weber. Anyone suffering from that condition cant be trusted to measure anything!

Not sure about your conclusions re the FBI - to me the fact that the FBI never interviewed him shows one key thing: that they indeed probably did not range as far as Asia in their suspects. If a suspect wasn't in the US, he was out of the line of fire. So maybe your guy wasn't Cooper (did anyone ever get hold of him btw to ask him his opinion on Cooper - I don't recall?) but it still leaves well alive the possibility that if Cooper was hiding out in Asia he would have made it out of reach of FBI. (Plus the enticing option of all those dollar bills being happily accepted out there without being checked by US banks...) And I hear you and Georger saying in the background, just because the theory is good doesn't mean it fits. Sure. But to me it does present a big avenue that wasn't explored. Incidentally, there was a post by Gosset's son a few weeks ago on a facebook page and he seems as convinced as ever that his father was Cooper. I think Snow makes some valid points, with examples. I think you do also. Its a blend. In every (large) investigation by a (large) organisation there are going to be aspects which go off the rail, so to speak. Some people throw a net to catch fish vs. looking for a single species. (In a sense traffic stops are a net and often produce good results). Somebody is always left out, for all kinds of reasons - Jo's latest is ideational, dissassociative. Her language is very specific. I hope she has some family or friends to take care of her.

Amazing! And amazing you are here. More snow here today but Im going out shopping anyway. Nice pleasant day here. Read Sluggo's post of the day. Enjoy! G.

Im going to enjoy this VERY MUCH! Thank you LORD! skyjack71 Jumps License In sport : : : Feb 12, 2008, 10:13 PM Post #150 of 14443 (4360 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1816 Re: [377] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post In Reply To , How do you get from a wilderness jump (or farmland jump) and blend back in when there is so much news circulating? Every guy who looked wet and disheveled was a suspect that night. There was a cabin on the Columbia - owned by an individual who didn't live there.

Okay, I'll bite. If you go to the link sluggo provided (which is funny in itself: www.2blowhards.com and fubar.cgi)....you can see Prairie Mary's post (was she a porn actress?) with a 2006 date after it. The weird thing is the immediate next post. By poster named "Sluggo" And this is 2006? WTF is that? It isnt. It never will be.

Keep us posted on any Mary Strachan developments... now it really would be a feather in Jo's cap if it ended up being the same hotel as her night clerk from China?? If. It isnt. It never will be.

I would suppose Duane had lots of friends, in many places. I also said "alleged" ... in my post. [I thought I had and I went back and checked and I have] They may not even be the same people! I didnt name anyone and after going back and finding Jerry's post and reading it he doesnt name anyone either.

I held the KEY for yrs - but something had to point me right at that key. As Duane always said - Hide it in PLAIN (Plane) site. This story is far from over and it is NOT a story some of you are going to like. If more than one person knows a secret it will not stay a secret forever. Homes4ubyjo@aol.com To bring this back to Earth, that is the one thing Ive never understood. I mean: Hide it in PLAIN (Plane) site. You have repeated that moto often here. I guess you are saying when Duane used the word "plain" he was being clever and meant "plane", as a clue to him being DB Cooper. There is a second issue regarding Duane's socalled cleverness and "Hide it in PLAIN (Plane) site". The second issue regards Duane being at Virginia Beach at all, in the aftermath of McCoy being killed there. Your first post on this issue stated that you and Duane knew nothing about McCoy ever being at Virginia Beach and you never discussed it, and you knew nothing about the DB Cooper case because 'you southerners dont get northern news'. After some time you then posted and stated: "My reply is that I never tried to be 100% accurate - as I was replying to other responses. 1. We moved to Va in 1983 or 84 - but I am not sure about the date. *2. He did drive me by a house in Va. Bch. Va and told me that was where McCoy was killed. I was not very interested in this, but do remember his doing this shortly after we moved to Va. 3. Yes, Duane did grow his mustache and a head full of hair when we went to Va...He was working as a manager and had more than a one time contact with other agents and individuals. 5. Norjack did not make the streets until 1986 - this is the book he had at our house, but I didn't know what the book was about...I have told that story before so need to retell it. *6. After Norjack the neat mustache became very full and the hair much longer. *8. Yes. the statement was a general statement rather than this detailed summary I have been compelled to do. **When we moved to Va. Bch. was in 1983 several yrs after he took me to WA in 1979 and told and showed me what he did. Our moving to VA is not when or why Duane became interested in McCoy or the Cooper Story. " In subsequenet posts you then said Duane grew his hair to conceal hismelf after the publication of NORJAK, and Duane felt very guilty about McCoy having been killed, Duane felt he was the cause of McCoy hijacking a plane following right after Duane's own hijacking of Flight #305, but that Duane had known about McCoy all along ever since 1972 and so none of this has anything to do with Virginia Beach. I believe I have coevered your posts very accurately above. Here are the questions: (a) Why would Duane move to Virginia Beach at all? Is not moving to Virg. Beach a little risky even if you do finally grow whiskers to cover your identity? Did Duane feel it was long enough after McCoy had been kiled at Virginia Beach that it was safe to move there? (b) If you and Duane did not discuss McCoy what did you discuss as Duane is driving you by McCoy's house and told you 'that is where McCoy was killed'? How did you know who McCoy was? And if Duane explained who McCoy was, how did he avoid saying "I knew McCoy because I am DB Cooper and McCoy copied me"? Why would Duane take you by McCoy's house at all? Was it a local tourist site newcomers went to look at? (c) Did Duane ever contact McCoy's wife or family and apologise? Is this why Duane went to Salt Lake City? (d) If Duane had all the contacts in the military and government you claim (trained paratrooper working with Special Forces, smokejumper, furloghed from prison to serve in Vietnam, et cetera) wouldnt there still be military people who would remember him and records somewhere? (e) Are you about to claim that Duane's hijacking of Flight #305 was known to the military and the government and concealed, and the government let Duane get away because of his value to US Intelligence and his former service to our country? Are you claiming the FBI has known about this all along and has concealed the facts from you, but you have found the truth for yourself and you are about to go public with this! Thanks for any clarifications -

(note that the way we think of terrorism and how to control it, should really just be an extension of how we dealt with hijacking..unless you think terrorists are invading the US in large numbers: armies. Now in terms of other countries, that's a different story. But that has a lot of other issues than what we really mean by terrorism) in terms of "modelling" the recent stuff on "contagion theory of hijacking" is along those lines. There's been a number of papers some long. (I posted on this back in the thread) here's a short one http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~surette/hijacking.html "It has often been claimed that aircraft hijacking is a "contagious" phenomenon, that the motivation to hijack aircraft spreads from one individual to another as a result of media coverage of hijacking incidents. This article develops a mathematical model of contagion and applies it to aircraft hijackings in the United States between 1968 and 1972. Analyses show that successful hijackings in the United States did generate additional hijacking attempts of the same type (either transportation or extortion). There were no contagion effects of unsuccessful hijacking attempts in the United States or any effects on U.S. hijacking attempts of such attempts outside the United States." also the "rational choice" model of hijacking? http://www.start.umd.edu/start/publications/lafree_dugan_aerial_hijackings.pdf "Using data that combines information from the Federal Aviation Administration, the RAND Corporation and a newly developed database on global terrorist activity, we are able to examine trends in 1,101 attempted aerial hijackings that occurred around the world from 1931 to 2003. We have especially complete information for 828 hijackings that occurred before 1986. Using a rational choice theoretical framework, we use continuous-time survival analysis to estimate the impact of several major counterhijacking interventions on the hazard of differently motivated hijacking attempts and logistic regression analysis to model the predictors of successful hijackings. Some of these interventions use certainty-based strategies of target hardening to reduce the perceived likelihood of success. Others focus on raising the perceived costs of hijacking by increasing the severity of punishment. We also assess which strategies were most effective in deterring hijackers whose major purpose was related to terrorism. We found support for the conclusion that new hijacking attempts were less likely to be undertaken when the certainty of apprehension was increased through metal detectors and law enforcement at passenger checkpoints. We also found that fewer hijackers attempted to divert airliners to Cuba once that country made it a crime to hijack flights. Our results support the contagion view that hijacking rates significantly increase after a series of hijackings closely clustered in time—but only when these attempts were successful. Finally, we found that the policy interventions examined here significantly decreased the likelihood of nonterrorist but not that of terrorist hijackings." glad you tracked them down after my lead -

The answer is yes. Man studies everything that he knows to study and the things forbidden to study get the most attention, as one would expect. Its the things Man does not know exist that Man has the least difficulty studying. But, from that fact one can build a long list of things to study just by imagining, attending church, and visiting the DB Cooper Dropzone forum. That methodology (above) escapes the Commandment: "Though shall earn thy keep by the sweat of thy brow". Nobody wants to work, so you let others do it for you. I know about such things because my mother was a Quaker, my father was Jew, and I have German Nazi whip marks on my back to prove it. Isnt that why Jo is here? To learn? To get ideas? Jo is building an arc of a sort which Duane and Cooper fit into, like bugs in keel wood. The problem for Jo is her arc has grown so large she cant find animali to put into it. Jo needed data so she created this thread to get data. Jo has been creating threads for years! Each little orchard Jo plants yields at least one seed of truth which applies to something, as Jo sees it. Jo now thanks the forum for its contributions to her case. What does that tell you? Sluggo has been the most help in this regard. Jo begins with a flurry of her hands, Sluggo diverts attention to "truth" and "credibility", and at the end of it all Jo has a new elephant where none existed before, and Jo commandeth the 'phant' to climb into her arc. Some elephants cooperate. Some don't. All very convenient and true and credible as certified by Sluggo, because Sluggo has his own arc to fill. I'm just here for the show! I paid $3.99 to watch. Without an audience a magician can do no tricks!

You made this statement... not Jo... not Sluggo! You want me to confirm it? You throw a rock into a pack of dogs and you always know which one you hit! Am I not entitled to state what has been told me by people who say they talked to Duane's friend? Why are you bugging me about this? Killing off the messenger, i think. Fine. Pack of dogs, hitting with stone? I dont have the faintest idea what you are talking about and frankly dont care. Your problems are your problems, not my problems. Stop and think for once. This has nothing to do wth you. These are Jo's stories Jo advanced. Why are you defending her and her stories after you just lambasted her saying she is full of BULLSHIT! Who do you hate more? Her or Me? Make up your mind. You want me out of this forum and will not be satisfied until I am gone. That has been your mission for a year+. I guess you see me as an impediment TO YOUR RESEARCH? Fine. I see you as extremely confused and conflcited. I guess wat you are saying is: the Cooper case is yours and this forum is yours. I just dont have any more time to waste on whatever it is is bugging you, Sluggo. If I say you are No.1 here does that help you? How else do I kiss your ass here?

Yeah… Sluggo knows something… You always do this! If you know something spit it out or stop complaining. Quit questioning my motives! Jo is the one peddling a story..... its not MY story. You always make it sound as if only you can explore this matter 'the correct way'. I dont know Sluggo. Maybe you are saying you are the only one "entitled" to look into this case. You always claim to know more than anyone else ... This is a simple matter. Either Jo's story is true or it isnt. There is no half way here. Years of people's time has already been expended on Jo's story and her fucked up way of doing things, allof her contentions about 10 million different things .... all under the guise of Duane Weber. To hear Jo tell it, the Sun and the Erath revolve around Duane Weber. (Copernicus and NASA claim different!). Then you object to anyone looking into Jo's claims as if you are the only one "entitled" to do it. Set us all free!