georger

Explain????? Was this cynicism, humor, bitterness…..? Maybe, astrophysical humor (you know about those astro-types). I came in on Jo's post below and I suppose that is also where it will end... and continue ... Good luck: skyjack71 Jumps License In sport : : : Feb 12, 2008, 10:13 PM Post #150 of 14267 (4233 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1799 Re: [377] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post In Reply To , How do you get from a wilderness jump (or farmland jump) and blend back in when there is so much news circulating? Every guy who looked wet and disheveled was a suspect that night. There was a cabin on the Columbia - owned by an individual who didn't live there.

Explain????? Was this cynicism, humor, bitterness…..? Maybe, astrophysical humor (you know about those astro-types).

Explain????? Was this cynicism, humor, bitterness…..? Maybe, astrophysical humor (you know about those astro-types).

You are right, I noticed that Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson astrophysicist and personal hero of mine was on the C2C guest list. So why dont you suggest to your buddy Neil he take over the DB Cooper case? I tend to think he would. He has all the right connections. Neil would very quickly separate the operant Cooper from all the 'dwarf and smurf' Coopers moreover he is above being contaminated by the Jo Webers of this world. Neil and you could go play on NPR Science Friday.

You are right, I noticed that Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson astrophysicist and personal hero of mine was on the C2C guest list. So, maybe the appearances on C2C don’t hurt him (Galen) as much as I tend to think (feel). As far as Gossett’s money problems… attached is an MP3 of Gossett’s own voice explaining why he had money problems. See if anything else “strikes you” about this snippet. This is all - very amusing.

I work ZS calls all the time and their cw has not a hint of accent'. 77 is laughing, I hope.

The DBC thread here is a crop circle of sorts. I agree! I guess when you dont have a real ufo or your own private plane you make crop circles that will be seen? Most people just settle for banks of sodium lights on their property (can be seen from Mars).

Good post - good points. The two different answers are striking. It is like outsider vrs. insider opinion. I agree with the second because that is my experience. Faith based groups have their own rules. Its part of the autonomy issue... The Amana Society is but one of four such groups in my area in addition to Maharishi's, the Quakers, the Dutcher Reformers, the Catholics, the Apostolics, .... and the list goes. There are common denominators among the groups but each has its own rules, priorities, and identity set within secular society itself. LE has developed techniques for working with all of these communities. Life is complicated! McCoy was not Cooper. I dont believe that for a second. However Cooper may have been someone with a background similar to McCoys, but without the deep military background-skills McCoy had? We know that McCoy was living right in the nexus of serious social tensions which includes at Brigham Young. People saw McCoy as a model and above the common norm but he was juggling conflicting stresses then he snaps. He was deeply in debt for one thing. (he asks 500k vrs Cooper's 200k and remarks about that - money is important to him). You never expect people to do these things until they do them and inevitably someone does. I may have more to ay later but this is (to me) thought provoking...

Statistically unlikely is one thing, actual occurrence is another. How statistically likely is it that someone will win the lottery - but people do? How statistically likely is it to get struck by lightning in the same place twice - yet people do? Perhaps more appropriate, how statistically likely is it that a skydiver will hit the only obstacle in a huge field - but they do? Snow, the tie pin theory - surely someone in the FBI, especially those who thought McCoy was Cooper, would have put 2 +2 together on the tie pin? Do you think maybe Chevron Man was Cooper? Duane wanted to blackmail him? Georger's connection with the tie clip assumes some uniqueness about the tie clip. I produced a picture of a similar tie clip. Newspaper ads around the same time had drawings more than pictures, but had the mother of pearl sets like I showed, available widely (and cheap). If they were widely available, then there's nothing to bother thinking about. Being widely available and being particular as part of a dress code in a particular community are two entirely different things.

What would the "LDS acceptable" hijack justification be? Give us a theoretical example. There would no LDS acceptable justification, at least none for public consumption.

Do you mean LDS? Was LFD a typo? What would the "LDS acceptable" hijack justification be? Give us a theoretical example. Oh, and being a cattle person and scientist what is your take on the Fazios cattle mutilations? Natural causes? Predators? Something else? 377 Sorry. Later Day Saints. LDS. People do cattle mutilations, not aliens. There have been very very few in my State, fortunately. You have asked a big question above. Let me think about this and come back - we have had a blizzard here and Im picking up the pieces and tired. I want to kick back with a Mountain Dew and admire my shoveling (of every damned thing around me!), and probably take a four hour nap,. I will be back after Survivor which I cant miss!

A river drowning gives the best explanation for Coopers disappearance, but didn't G present a reasonably convincing argument about how statisically unlikely a water landing was? 377 My stats were based on a random drop anywhere along the FBI flight path bwteen SEA and south of Portland, ie. simple ratio of land mass to water. Snow's stats were more focused and also correct. If Cooper drops randomly along the flight path but only bwteeen say Scotton and south of Portland, the the ratio of water area to land area increases - thats obvious. Then Snow's stats apply. The more you restrict the dropzone to an area close to water, the higher the probability of striking water. If you add winds that favor a drop direction toward water then you increase the odds of a water landing even further. If Cooper bailed close to the Columbia, say just north of the Columbia, were the winds inthis area at 235* (NE) that night or 166* (NW) as Bohan reported. Bohan reported severe cross winds landing at Portland. He reported winds 'right on my nose' coming south (behind and above 305). Winds charts for the time period show convection cells in this corridor, circling CCW to the west. If Cooper jumps in this corridor and is caught in a CCW cell he may have been swept back to the NW (not NE) which along with his forward throw takes him in the direction of the Columbia River laid out in a west-east line below the flight path in this area, and this (the CCW cells) increases the odds of landing in water, maybe even near Tina Bar itself. I believe this is the reasoning Snowman has had going back years when years ago he speculated about Cooper augering into the mud, in the Columbia Basin and possibly close to Tina Bar or Vancouver Lake. Any calculation of probabilities in this matter must take into account the area and the winds, especially the nature of those winds (eg. rotating convective cells). Cooper's fall may not have been a linear line and if the wind charts are correct there is a high probability his drop line was not a simple straight line but an arc.

Orange, I am surprised nobody seems excited? about an exact dupplicate of Cooper's tie clip and similar ties, showing up in McCoy's dresser, as a basic part of the Mormon uniform. If you recall, we spent weeks pondering over possible linkage for the tie and tie clip... a Mormon connection was suggesated once but not pursued. As fate would also have it, Jo and Duane spent time at Salt Lake City poking around, for God only knows what. The one credit I have always given Jo and Duane is they had pretty good noses when it came time to feret out 'opportunities'. Jo's description of her and Duanes time at SaltLake City indicates a similar quest of some kind. Who knows what they were after or why? Jo has never been explicit about this ... so far as I know. But say a crime happened in my area and a tie and tie clip like Cooper's left at the scene. It would not take long to connect those items to a population in my area - they are very specific in character, and searches in that population might lead to the person involved. There is also another fact-based connection. I dont really know what McCoy's background was in the LDF community to have him going to Brigham Young, however I do know people in the LDF walk a pretty tight line when it comes to social values and conduct. Crime in that community is not unknown and specific kinds of crime in that community are not unknown. Certain communities have certain propensities for certain kinds of crimes. The LDF community has very strong political beliefs. LDF members have been known to act out on those beliefs, historically. (Have you ever heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, for example.) There is nothing in the LFD community that would prevent someone from conducting a hijacking, especially as a quasi politically linked act of personal heroism. McCoy hijacked and was a member of the LDF community. I know this is sounding a lot like the things Jo would say, except int his case one linkage is real - Richard McCoy. And I am not the first to suggest such a linkage. It could be the same linkage but in a different form (expression) within the same community. Two similar acts of hijacking possibly related but independent, where one of the parties knew the other. McCoy told agents he would not talk about the Cooper hijacking. He may have been protecting somebody he suspected. Like Duane, he may have had an idea (even a better idea) of who Cooper was? Because while the tie and tie clip are somewhat universal they are specific within the LDF and similar comunities from the Northwest in through Utah and into Canada, just as they are very specific to one community in my area... It is a lead which has substance behind it ...

Finally! Appreciated. Our familes are linked going back to the 40s through Steve Tosaw, Richard's brother, and relatives of mine. The Tosaw family is honored here and always will be. G.

Yes and thanks. Here's another link. Public knowldge. http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art23490.asp

You can find Richard's vita on the Internet. Please do not keep saying he was murdered. He was not. Thanks. G

and Tosaw was just murdered. Connected? Could you curb your trolls, enthusiasm, or whatever it is? You didnt know Tosaw or any of his family. I did and I dont appreciate your 'shit' about this. Grow up.

How do you find this stuff Sluggo? Sluggo may have his source but its common knowledge among people who have been at this for some time - Everyone has their own list of special info they think they know and few know

Why the desire to combine McCoy and Cooper is beyond me. Perhaps the resemblance was too strong, as the techniques were very different. quoted: "In 1991, Russell Calame, yet another book-writing ex-FBI agent, co-authored "D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy," which made the case that Cooper and McCoy were the same man. His theory was based on the similar methods of the hijackings, as well as an extrapolation drawn from a key piece of evidence that Cooper left behind on the Northwest jet: the skinny black tie with a mother-of-pearl clasp. The tie was like those worn by McCoy and other male Brigham Young students, and McCoy owned a mother-of-pearl clasp identical to the one left behind by Cooper. Calame told the Salt Lake Tribune that McCoy "never admitted nor denied he was Cooper." Calame said McCoy was asked directly whether he was Cooper during interrogation following his arrest. According to Calame, McCoy responded, "I don't want to talk to you about it.'' He went to his grave with sealed lips. O`Hara, the agent who killed McCoy, bought his colleague's theory, saying, "When I shot Richard McCoy, I shot D.B. Cooper at the same time." [edit] for the record I am not sure I buy it either, that they were one in the same, however they may share a common nexus and key elements of the hijacking are very similar, including the fact McCoy also used prewritten hijack instructions prepared in a note, presented in an envelope. Calame was a pretty good investigator, I think. Maybe others feel differently but I happen to know two people who knew and worked with him, who had a high regard for Calame. I am not saying McCoy and Cooper were the same person but they are a lot more similar than any other two hijackers you want to compare - There is another thing: baselines. In order to make comparisons you must chose something or someone to use as a baseline. For a number of reasons McCoy may not be a bad choice to use as a baseline, to compare others to - Snowmman may disagree with this. Snowmman may say everyone is their own baseline! Its an issue in methodology used in investigations -

As for Rangers - I have some information that leads me to believe the Ranger training was started in 1951. I got this from a military historian buff, who is still working on it. The history you are referring to is only in conjunction with Special Forces as I understand it. Perhaps it is the terminology that is so confusing for us NON - military here. Follow the links I provided.

You are wrong - it is not imaginative nor absurd. You have to think about the politics of the 50' and 60's. The prison "fuloughs" really happened and ex-con being taught to jump Really Happened. =============

The thought intrigues me. Im sure it does others also -

Exactly right. Jo's whole pitch from the beginning has been that Duane was 'more than he was' and something special. A stint at McNeil Prison becomes parachute training with the smoke jumpers. With this Duane becomes familiar with the terrain in Washington where Cooper is thought to have parchuted. His dishonorable discharge from the Navy becomes a source for possible Seal training. His documented disease history becomes mistaken by physicians and minimised; only at the end of his life does it affect him according to Jo. Duane (his photo below) becomes fit and healthy and a generally low key 'superman behind the scenes including sexually', Jo has said. His jobs not mundane and ordinary but top of the line, performed with honors and awards. Duane steals a treasured personal memento from a noted politician, from the man's hotel room. (Another blow against authority for Jo and Duane and Jo think its funny and shows Duane superior skills and abilities, and hers also by association). Duane's stint at Missiouri State Penitentiary furloughed with no record, top secret, so Duane could possibly serve with the Special Forces and CIA at BuDop 1967, or, he at least knew and mingled with such people or something like that ... sufficient to keep a single copy of Soldier of Fortune magazine hidden "in a lock box" (along with other hidden clues he left for Jo) all of which has some connection to nuclear personnel devices at BuDop or elsewhere ... and his associate Tony Wong did a painting which Jo says very much resembles the enclosure at BuDop. It's all top secret whatever is going on, or could be or might be, that Duane caught wind of or was involved with which makes him special once again ... Jo speculates? A photo of some child which could be Tina Mucklow (received during the hijacking!) found in Duane's things by Jo. Jo presented us the photo saying it was ultra important to her case, then backed out saying she never said the photo was of Mucklow. And lastly Duane confesses to Jo secretly on his death bed, saying: "I am Dan Cooper". So yes, according to Jo, Duane was extra special. Or at least he knew and maybe even associated with special people. The Duane Pack. (with Jo knitting quilts silently in ignorance on the side). Duane had his own special forces, according to Jo. And good grief I almost forgot! Duane was DB Cooper. Maybe being Dan Cooper was the least of his accomplishments. His greatest accomplishment might be Jo Weber herself!

Orange posted that a few days ago and that I believe may have been the man I was looking for - I never find them until they die. I intended to try to find any of his family that might have old photos - of his parents or any other family member - or who their connections might have been. Cooley is a name mentioned by Duane's brother and by Duane himself that intervened in the 40's when Duane was sent to McNeil. This family arranged for Duane to go to a special camp in CA. and then Duane disappears for several yrs...we think he was working part of that time in WA, OR, ID or UT area. This man was older than Duane, but too young to be friends of the mother or father...hence why I wanted to know more about his family. The background and location are dead on. If I can track this it might explain how he knew WA state so well and what he was doing when he was there. Sorry, I was only going to do generic posts - but the post I am answering has a direct connection to some of what I have searched for. Thank You , very much. Oh hell! I might as well ask. Tell us all about Calame and McCoy and Duane? I really-really-really wanna know! I know Duane and Calame met at least that is what Agent Benny Ambrose said. Pleez tell us all about this - pretty pleez? And what rank was Duane at Bu Dop? Did the warden throw him a party when he returned to prison in Missouri, prior to his release? Who came to get Duane on his release and where did he go?

Orange posted that a few days ago and that I believe may have been the man I was looking for - I never find them until they die. I intended to try to find any of his family that might have old photos - of his parents or any other family member - or who their connections might have been. Cooley is a name mentioned by Duane's brother and by Duane himself that intervened in the 40's when Duane was sent to McNeil. This family arranged for Duane to go to a special camp in CA. and then Duane disappears for several yrs...we think he was working part of that time in WA, OR, ID or UT area. This man was older than Duane, but too young to be friends of the mother or father...hence why I wanted to know more about his family. The background and location are dead on. If I can track this it might explain how he knew WA state so well and what he was doing when he was there. Sorry, I was only going to do generic posts - but the post I am answering has a direct connection to some of what I have searched for. Thank You , very much. "This man was older than Duane, but too young to be friends of the mother or father...: WAS HE BIGGER THAN A BREADBOX? SMALLER THAN A MAILBOX? ONE EYES OR TWO? OR THREE? WHERE DID THE MOTHER SHIP LAND? Is this is smokejumper history Sluggo promised us you had?