smokin99

377, Don't make any bets on it being true or what caused it if it is. Just don't bet at all on this matter. If it isnt true then a lot of independent people from the day are peddling a lie - this is not a story that originated with newcomers but with the old guard. The story has made its way through the ranks far and wide. I first heard it from one of the controllers then later from several others, then in an exchange with Gray he confirmed to me he had heard it from a common source, I checked further... if the story is not true then a lot of people are peddling a myth. My reply to 377 would have reflected my intent better as follows: "Don't make any bets on Cooper trashing the aircraft. There are other possible causes. Just don't bet at all on this matter." Why would Cooper take the time or bother to trash the aircraft when he was in such a hurry to jump near Seattle? The other possible causes are what you don't want to bet against. We are thinking the same thing - you say it otherwise Far will flunge on me and demand source. They tried to kill him. There its said; not the first time its been suggested. Could be the source of the 'he died' opinion expressed with such certainty at the time. No secret some wished him deceased. They already had the bomb description and maybe knew it was a fake. So why not 'do the job'. Have a pleasant flight to Reno - all is well. Eveidence of the plane being pitched with Cooper on the stairs, all over the galley. Another conspiracy theory? Then why wouldn't they just say that's what happened? The bad guy was foiled in his attempt to take other lives and money. Accidentally or by design, surely they still would've been heroes in the eyes of the public?? What am I missing here? The only way it would make sense is if they kept the loot. What's that old saying about more than one person keeping a secret? Just seems illogical to me. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Very interesting. This may have already been discussed, here, but your post made me think about an article I read recently about a passenger on the plane. Seems like he remembers a couple of things a little differently than other published accounts. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/ but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

lol...I'm hiding behind the bar (after first removing all the bottles from the shelves). No use in wasting good booze. Besides we can always use it to disinfect the wounds. Orange, I think the first clue that things were gonna go cattywonkas was when all those lower form hominid references were made. Especially when they kept being repeated (as in lower forms should read these sentences twice ---(course naturehominid could've been referring to me)

Dealing with reluctant witnesses in a sensitive case is a lot like that scene from The Wizard of Oz where the Wicked Witch of the West says: First, I'm not taking sides on this issue - Got my own thoughts on the whole Tina/role/privacy issue and they're conflicted. I'm just confused.... In the past, I thought you said you sent them a letter and copy of the book and they never responded -- period. Did you have further contact than that? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Sky Chef(s) lol...not again.... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Ok...... so this is freaky.... I picked Newark, NJ in my post above because I looked up the stinkiest cities in the US. and it popped up. What comes in the mail today? A legal notice from Newark, NJ telling me about a toll violation. (Accidentally went through the wrong lane and they don't give you a second chance to get it right) Within 15 days of 9/29/11, they want 2.30 for the toll (which I will pay) and 25.00 for administrative costs (code for fine), (which, of course, I will dispute - since NJ does a crappy job of directing Georgia drivers (who don't do tolls as a general rule) to the correct lane)).

I think it is Gray's job to get to the bottom of this little question, mainly because he mentions it in his book. Seems I've read somewhere he had matches in his pockets. Regardless, ...... Passengers and the general public could buy meals from Sky Chef "on the street". We know there was a sky chef restaurant/bar in the Portland terminal that advertised their meal specials in local newspapers. They were probably located in other terminals as well since the company operated terminal as well as airline concessions. I would imagine there were complimentary matches posted at strategic locations throughout the airport. Or maybe he had the $3.95 lunch special while waiting to board. Or they could be on the airplane as a way of advertising the terminal restaurants. Or...maybe this was in the day when customer service meant something. They could've been provided as a courtesy. Point being..there seem to be several non-exclusive ways he could've ended up with Sky Chef matches. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Not me. I might have been doing something really stupid.

Um, okay, but you know you're gonna need a control if you want to convince skeptics. Not sure how what you're doing works, but maybe you can pick someone on here that knows exactly where they were or what they were doing Nov 24, 1971 so you can post that too.

lol.....we could use one of those around here sometimes, huh?. On second thought....Nah....probably redundant. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Cool jump picture from the stairs. For a non-jumper makes it a lot easier to picture DB's jump. In my mind's eye, I've only imagined his jump from the outside of the plane. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Step off! He is mine! LOL....meow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbEXr9-5UjI&feature=relmfu

I agree with you on contamination. From the videos that Carr did, it doesn't appear that items were stored and handled too carefully. Also, the parachute cord might have been a better bet for dna, but again, the potential contamination problem. Easy to say now, huh? They might have told Jerry they matched everything, but I'm a little skeptical that they matched up all the fingerprints with all the people that had been on the plane that day. This wasn't the first flight of the day, and, unless they did a wipe down between flights, prints could have been there a while. I also have doubts that they checked with all previous passengers to see if anyone was missing a tie. Could've happened - I'm just a little skeptical of this too. The crew could have easily missed seeing a tie left by a passenger on an earlier flight. Unless the witnesses provided verification that it was his tie, could be anybody's. I'm sure they must be keeping some things close to the vest, and I don't doubt they told Jerry that they matched up everything - I'm just not quite buying it. But that's just me and my general skepticism towards the entire investigation. One would hope they do know a lot more than they are saying. -- regardless, at best, the investigation appears (to me) to be somewhat inadequate even for the early 70s. Edited to say: Whether they matched everything or not, if they have a valid suspect, seems they should still go with what they've got and check em out like they did with the fellow they just nabbed after 30 yrs. They might get lucky.

Oh, I don't think Farflung should reveal his identity or anything like that. I was wrong about suggesting that last week. Maybe something like this though: "I was a commercial pilot for (insert years here)..." "Yeah, I was an air traffic controller..." Nothing personal. As i was talking with Farflung at the Tiki Bar last night over drinks, (Vicki was in the restroom - too much tequila - er I mean karaoke) he told me that Blevins was like that chimp that puts his hand in the termite mound, grabs a fistful of termites, then can't get his hand out. The little bugger just won't let go of those termites. Then he gets captured by the natives who beam him over the head and eat his little monkey brains. Let it go, Blevins. We'd hate to see you end up like that.

Jo, Just solve the damn Cooper case and get it over with! Then I for one can get on to more serious matters like searching for Amelia. I'm with my R99 and 377 on this one. If you're waiting for an invitation, consider it given. Oh wait......crap.....another book. Are we gonna have to wait for another book, Jo? Are is it another tease? Geez Louise. You know I told you that I would shoot the crow and cook it if all of us DB Cooper zoners have to eat it. I do a mean dutch oven squirrel stew over an open fire. Guess i could whup up a crow or two. So out with it. I've kinda been wondering if Amelia made it to that island myself. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

But couldn't it just as easily mean: The stew just returned from helping with the door so now the aft stair light is on?? Or maybe she just went back and told him what to do and he said I got it now?? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I hope no one takes offense to this, but what's the significance / relevance to how the door got down - as far as hydraulics, manual, etc.? Ever since the discussion started I've been wondering what the end run is. I thought it was about the pressure drop initially, but I just don't see how the opening has anything to do with that. I kind of get the significance to the discussion of whether he had to have help or not - though not sure what that would prove. I'm not being sarcastic.

Not that it probably matters in the scheme of things, but, In the interest of accuracy, the article actually says she received her stewardess wings from Northeast Orient Airlines recently after attending McConnell. Don't know if there is a difference between graduating and receiving wings but wanted to correct the record. Maybe they receive wings after receiving a job or completing an orientation or additional training at Northeast? FWIW..... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

And why do you assume that "he" was Cooper? The (GC) was often "Al" because the person hearing the comms couldn't always tell who he was hearing. The "(GC)" was Al telling someone else around there (like ARTCC) that "he" the pilot wanted to get up. Nobody said who "he" was. Like, "the guy in back." (source: Hominid) They probably did level off because Coop wanted to get the stairs down. That doesn't mean he requested it. It's very likely the crew just wanted to be able to concentrate on that little chore. I'll try to figure out what the rest means and get back to ya. I think there are two "he's". I think in the first instance one GC is talking to another referring to the pilot. One "Ground Control says NW 305 wants to go to altitude as fast as "he" can. Immediately afterwards (on the pdf) another GC replies okay. The next "he" is 305 referring to Cooper as in "he wants the steps down" That's my assumption

RobertBlevins, I'm not advocating any one suspect or any one author. KC's not in my top tier, mainly because of physical characteristics, but he might be the one, who knows. I don't hack you up over him. I said gossett is as good a suspect as any cause he resembles the composite, he's got a parachuting/mil background, and his post military life is conducive, I believe, to the type of personality that might have undertaken the Cooper thing. Would I put money on it? Not at this point. Then you felt you had to respond to my original post with silly comments about how fat Gossett was 18 months after the hijacking. Come on, that's a lot of turkey, barbecue, birthday cakes, easter eggs and Sunday buffets. Come up with something better. I don't understand why you get so worked up about Galen Cook and Bruce Smith and frankly, I don't really care and doubt if anyone else does - All the tit for tat is just too juvenile for words. For all that, I've defended your right to be on this thread to others. Got no bone to pick with you. But, with all due respect, if you want to talk proof, face it, for all your 25 points and book, all you really have is conjecture, he said/she said, and a premise that evolved as you found out more facts about the case. Among other things, where's the proof that Kenny was in a camper with Bernie that weekend, that he wore a toupee, that his coins/money didn't come from shrewd investment, etc. etc? Show me the police report from when Bernie broke in and the logs were stolen from the ex-wife's? house. Like Gossett's sons, almost everything that you have is based on what someone told you. You have no idea if it's true or not. Not only that, on the one hand you say eyewitnesses from the plane are fallible when it's about physical descriptions, but you use them as corroboration when it's something that you advocate in your candidate. I get confused. Just saying, like others, you too have made a case mainly out of circumstantial tidbits that you don't have any real or documented proof for. I guess you could debate whose witnesses are more reliable, but, come on, how would you ever really know? Do I think Janet is 100% reliable. No more than any of your witnesses. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle of "she experienced everything she say"s vs "she experienced nothing she says". A memory probably overlain with years of dust, slights, imagination, and lots of tv. If Cook came on here and posted, I'm sure he'd get the same challenges as you about his suspect and be expected to back up claims. Til he does, there's just you.

So how's that working out for them?

I didn't say Gossett was the guy. I said he seems to be as good a candidate as any. Same with Sheridan Peterson and Mel Wilson. According to reports as late as August 2011, Cook is reported as saying that the FBI still lists Gossett as a viable suspect (at that time the report said there were two - Gossett and an unnamed suspect who I assume turned out to be LD Cooper). As far as Blevins thing about fat guys with hairy arms, that's just too silly to comment on, but that's not gonna stop me. Weight fluctuates. No known witness reports mentioned hairy arms. He was wearing a suit which, one would think covered his arms. Cook may not be disclosing info about Gossett's whereabouts November 1971 cause he's saving it for the book. Enough said. If one can believe news reports quoting the FBI during the last LD Cooper windstorm (which is all I can go by since I'm not in the circle of trust),

Interesting article. Written by one of Bruce's buddies ( in spirit at least

This might not have as much detail as you want but this was taken from Sluggo’s "NW 305 Hijacking Research Web Site” found here http://n467us.com/ in the Facts and myths section. "Flight Test Data On 01/06/1972, NWA, FBI and Air Force personnel flew the 727 used for Flight 305 (N467US) out over the Pacific with two 230 lb sleds. The weight of the sleds was to emulate the weight Cooper would have been when he jumped. (Cooper’s estimated body weight of 180 lb + the 21 lbs of money + weight of the chutes). Once in the test area the plane was flown with flaps at 15 degrees, wheels down, approximately 150 KIAS. When the aft airstairs were released, they dropped 20 degrees (Photo here.). There was a slight change in cabin pressure indicated by gauges, but not felt by the flight crew. Air Force Captain Wilson and M/Sgt Saiz individually walked down the airstairs (wearing parachutes) and stood at the bottom. Each reported that the stairs lowered to almost a level position, they were stable, no drag from the wind and they could stand fully upright. When at the bottom of the stairs the cabin pressure gauge showed significant changes. They then performed a test by dropping each of the two sleds and in both tests the sleds dropped directly down (dispelling a theory that Cooper would have been slammed up against the tail when he jumped). The moment the sleds cleared the stairs the flight crew felt a popping in their ears and the cabin pressure gauge reacted violently. It was discovered from chase plane photo's, video and reports from Wilson and Saiz that the pressure change was caused by the stairs being forced upward by the airstream after the weight was removed. Flight Engineer Harold E. Anderson, who was present for the test and served on the flight crew of Flight 305 the night of the hijacking, stated that the pressure bump felt during the test was identical to what was experienced the night of the hijacking" but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Maybe, though I got the impression that the FBI boarded after they told the tower that they were going to leave out the back. That's the order of appearance in transcripts anyway. Maybe the FBI coming on board caused them to rethink their exit strategy. I'd still be interested to know how they actually left the plane. Edited to say that another thing about forums is we often cross-post.