smokin99

WTG Farflung! ALL the girls will want you now. I quoted to clicky ETA: but you beat me to it.

We could go on and on, back and forth on this - but I won't -- **APPLAUSE** -- except one thing. Robert, I know you're smarter than everyone else on the planet about many things, but do read. You've already erroneously put me in BVDs, hinted that my character is not equal to my courage, and have me jumping off dangerously high things because you don't always pay attention, so here's what i got. I said motive by itself is nothing. Maybe I should have said motive and opportunity are not "all important" aka the smokin gun. Motive and opportunity might even occasionally get some police going in the wrong direction - once they have motive and opportunity some have been known to quit looking for the "real" bad guy. My point, which obviously I wasn't clear on, is that motive and opportunity fit about a million and one people - now show me propensity for crime, despair, chutzpah, whatever it is that made an airline employee -- (an airplane employee, who I might add, you'd think would have had as much knowledge about aft doors as Tina) think he could pull this off. Based on what we know of his life before and after (admittedly not enough) - I just don't see it. Not saying it's not possible - I grant you there are people that do that one thing in life that makes you go well I'll be damned -- you just haven't given me the info I need to think that Kenny had the balls to do it. I even like Kenny's face for it. In one pic he's kinda got that Bing look going. Maybe something will come along to make me change my mind, but with those other pesky physical characteristics - in addition to the above - just not convinced. Not only that - I wish you guys would scan all the "evidence". Not that I don't trust you, but you have misread /interpreted some vital stuff about Kenny before. All That said...I might be wrong.

I hope you submitted this gem of a tale. A story that cuts to the chase oh so well. Send it and win it. Whatever they got. cause your poem is cool while it's ...smokin hot. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Let's dissect this frog, shall we? Motive by itself = nothing, motive + opportunity = nothing. Motive: I could use a couple of hundred grand right now and I am p.o.'d cause the Super Committee was anything but. Opportunity = The banks are open, I've got a mask left over from Halloween, a gun, a sheet of paper and a pen, 1/4 of a tank of gas. What I don't have is the psychological makeup / propensity / despair necessary for committing a crime and I'm too afraid of being caught. The accomplice: A friend that may (or may not) be lying. A friend who may (or not) have a relationship with the main suspect that they want kept hidden for whatever reason. Who do we believe? 40-year old memories of people that knew the two -- who may (or may not) have an ax to grind, witnesses that may be susceptible to rethinking old memories from an alternate viewpoint, or a guy who (if he's lying) might have alternative reasons to lie (other than being an accomplice to a crime) Two grand of the ransom in the guy's back yard: HUGE leap here. First, again there's no physical evidence of the money. But let's just say that it was there. There is absolutely no way to connect it to the hijacking. My grandfather liked to bury money. He was a loveable loon who liked to wander afield and would bury money for easy access and to keep it away from his wife. Grandpa wasn't Cooper. Kenny may not be either. Spending evidence: Another leap. Your suspect spent money but you haven't shown where the money didn't come from. Do you know any of the following? Did his income exceed his expenses? Was he frugal and able to save and then when he got enough money - he purchased coins? (Grandpa again - He wasn't a rich man but he saved his money until he could purchase a couple acres here and there for cash) Did he ever receive any type of inheritance? Win a lottery? Buy some stocks cheap and sold for a profit? Win on jeopardy? Win in Vegas? Sold drugs? Fenced stolen property? Not all of these types of income would be traceable to an income tax return. Have you looked at bank statements? All of his papers? You've based your assumptions on the fact that he seems to have spent more than he made. Grandpa did that too. If a transaction didn't involve something that had to be written down it pretty much went into the cash pile. He gave 10% to his church, the IRS -- well, let's just say he gave the government what he felt it deserved. Witness testimony: No-brainer. Witnesses are mistaken, they lie, they have convenient memories, they want their 15 minutes. You've used any or all of this reasoning yourself about the original and other witnesses. Chute experience: One out of eight = F Picture of him dressed like the hijacker: Okay, intriguing, but again: You don't really know when the picture was taken - only when it was developed, right? He's wearing a black raincoat/overcoat over a black shirt that's over a lighter colored t-shirt. He's got on light colored pants. The case he's holding appears to be one that opens at the top - like a salesman case or overnight satchel - like he might be coming home from a trip. He's holding a white bag that could contain his dirty laundry or a bunch of McDonald's fries. Okay there could be money in there too, but just as likely something else. Kenny might just be a jokester. Not saying that Kenny's not the guy - what I am saying is - realistically you haven't really given us a whole lot that can't just as easily be explained away. I think that the problem with a lot of suspect pushers is that they go into it trying to fit the suspect to the crime instead of going into it from the other direction. Try your best to prove it wasn't him. Investigate and give some serious due diligence to all those other explanations. You've given us speculation, guesses, and convenient assumptions (i.e., the witnesses wouldn't know a toupee when they see one - see this is a hard one coz even the best ones usually look like toupees. That's just one example cause this has turned into a longer post than i intended. What the heck do we want? Let's see: Fingerprint match? DNA match? A twenty dollar bill? A better match to the original eye witness testimony? Oh wait…….. witness testimony is only good if YOU interview them. My bad. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The only way I could possibly come and enjoy myself is if I could throw a WHOLE bunch of wuffos from a GAWD DAYUM AIRPLANE I might even give a parachute to those I liked Dang...I go out for Mexican food for the night (code for drinking mucho margaritas) and I come back and read through a lot of flippin posts and this is the one that I kinda hone on to. By GAWD, I think you're on to something Amazon. I just hope I rate. Happy Thanksgiving. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Canoes, tents, cattle drives and hovels....Damn, are these all the choices I would have had? What about Key West, Wine Country, Hawaii, Big Sky...... Oh well... canoe trip in Georgia would be fun I guess - - as long as the natives don't think you're a dentist you should be fine. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Rawhide - right next to the stiletto heels and handcuffs. YOU feel creepy...Yeeek. For the record.... I've slid into a base, let my 8th grade boyfriend get to first base (or was it 7th grade? --shhhh - don't tell my mama), plucked a bass, caught a bass (oops, never mind), visited a base, jumped a curb while visiting the base, touched base, applied a base coat, know the difference between an acid and a base, jumped a broom (not really, but it sounds cool), jumped rope, jumped off my car's battery, jumped a barbed wire fence while running from a old bull, made a jump shot, and routinely jump up and down when I get frustrated at folks that don't read posts. I have, however, never jumped a base. The dropzone says it all: BASE jumping is a highly dangerous sport that can easily injure and kill participants. Think long and hard before making a BASE jump. We do not recommend BASE jumping to anybody. You, and you alone, are responsible for your safety. So I'll defer that particular pleasure to someone else...like...hmmmm......maybe hangdiver.

LOL....It's so tempting to comment on that but this is a Cooper thread so I'm gonna refrain.

Here's a clicky. http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/11/lost_northwest_books_db_cooper.html The book's been mentioned on here before but forget whether anyone ever actually read it or critiqued it as to being satire or serious . I've kinda sorta without enthusiasm contemplated getting it but never enough to actually push the "place in cart" button.

Here's a clicky. http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/11/lost_northwest_books_db_cooper.html The book's been mentioned on here before but forget whether anyone ever actually read it or critiqued it as to being satire or serious . I've kinda sorta without enthusiasm contemplated getting it but never enough to actually push the "place in cart" button.

I really want to know. Do you even read the posts or is shooting from the hip and mis-direction just your m.o.? This whole series of posts got started because BruceSmith gave someone a list of books to reference and, while doing so, also gave his opinion that the author of one of the books was insightful and provocative. You disagreed and based that on assertions that it was established that McCoy was in Utah eating turkey, and for Calame not to find that out obviously means he wasn't a good writer/FBI agent. Oh yeah..and there was a lawsuit and the book was pulled so that proves it too. Bruce asked for validation of your statements - even though he also said that he did not necessarily agree with Calame's conclusion that McCoy = Cooper. You said you didn't say what you said and challenged Bruce to do his own research to verify YOUR statements?? Farflung then shows that you did say what you said (that you said you didn't say) so you try to deflect that by making a joke and posting the astronaut story again (for about the fourth time, I might add). But I digress..... Then you ultimately end up with this - like the whole thing was about McCoy being Cooper? I don't think anyone in the posts was even arguing or agreeing that McCoy was Cooper - just wanted you to show the basis for your Calame challenge about Thanksgiving dinner and show how Calame was wrong about receipts, etc. I, for one, have often wondered about this discrepancy and, as far as I know it has never been explained. So if you have a source, I think Bruce was asking, as I am - hey I'd really like to know. Oh wait....silly silly me.....that same Seattle office that is batting zero on DNA, fingerprints, and eye witness accounts as far as YOUR suspect is concerned... is johnny-on the-flipping spot when it comes to McCoy. I'm sorry....no it's not gang up on Blevins day, and I'm not a Cooper = McCoy proponent either.....but geez louise.....you just leave me flabbergasted sometimes. And i always think to myself - don't even post - it's just too silly. Then I think - no - he's begging for intervention, help him. Then I can't help myself. I have no choice in the matter. Some things just have to be said.

Farflung, would you consider narrating the Dorkzone video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV40OIFQmIw&feature=youtube_gdata_player 377 Great idea, Farflung. Just don't forget about Shirley Maclaine. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Jerry, I too would like Wilson checked out, but you make an incredible leap of faith here. So I gotta say..... "We already know"??? Come on Jerry, you don't "know", you can only theorize. Just like Cooper making it out alive is only a theory, so is the theory that he died. If you "know", then do what you ask Jo, Blevins, Cook, Smith, et al to do. Prove it. Show us the bones, the rest of the money, the chutes, the briefcase, the clothes, the sunglasses, the positive id to a person that disappeared in 1971, anything? At the very least, proponents of the live theory have shown that it can be done. I'm assuming that the "We" you refer to is you and the FBI. So check out Wilson's prints and DNA and either rule him in or out. If the "we" you refer to is the FBI,, are you an official spokesperson or employed by the FBI? If the "we" you refer to is not you and the FBI, who is it? Again, so check out Wilson's prints and DNA and either rule him in or out. I assume that this is the test that needs to be passed. Again, show the end result and then you can be crowned Mr. I-told-you-so. I'll even make a glittery sash. Til then - just conjecture. Other than general physical and the fact that he disappeared in 1971, what else is in the profile that you refer to? Please be specific. And, other than general physical and the fact that he disappeared in 1971, how does your suspect fit the profile that you refer to? Please be specific. I know what the FBI has posted as a profile, I would be interested in Jerry's response as to the profile he has in mind. I appreciate your confidence in your instincts, Jerry. but when you use absolutes and insider talk like "we know", you oughta be willing to back it up with more than closed-minded adherence to a premise that he couldn't have made it because.... (insert weather conditions, ground conditions, mysteries of the door, the chutes, the pull, the shoes, lack of experience, etc. etc. etc.) This premise has shown to be inconclusive at the least and, at best, shown to be false by accounts from real jumpers here who have made or know others who have made similar jumps. Lived through it or died - as far as what's out there now - it's all conjecture at this point. So if you/we "know" something different, spill it.

Good question. I just follow the herd. What alpha ox started that? Unsolved Mysteries "started" that one. The media = never seems to check the facts prior to the report. I figured that might have been where it came from. I said AMW video for "America's Most Wanted", but as Vicki points out, the tv show he was featured on is Unsolved Mysteries. My bad...I knew it was one of em. Shoulda went to Youtube and checked myself but got lazy

Seems like a no-brainer to me too, Vicki. I hope they do. The only thing that I wonder is where did the amount of $200,000 in bogus money that Georger mentioned come from? I've seen that amount mentioned on here before I think, but I don't see that amount in any of the articles of the day. From memory and a very quick look at a couple of newspaper articles from the time: the barrel that was dumped in the river contained metal plates along with 500,000 - 1 million in counterfeit bills. At some point they found 2280 counterfeit bills in his trunk and more on two other people that were working with Wilson. This has all probably been mentioned before, but Wilson was originally arrested for passing a bogus $20 bill at a lounge and another at a restaurant. It appears that he had been under investigation for at least a month prior due to the feds investigating the "counterfeiting ring". He was under investigation because an accomplice (he and Wilson knew each other from Leavenworth) talked after being arrested in Denver with bogus bills. Looks like the authorities were watching Wilson in Minn as he passed the fake money in the lounge/restaurant and later arrested him at a hotel. The accomplice said Wilson printed the money in LA. Interesting bit of trivia: There were two guys buying the fake money. The article claims that the two accomplices got, all told, less than $10,000 in counterfeit money for which they paid Wilson 18 cents on the dollar. That's only, at the most, 1800?. wth...maybe crime really doesn't pay . Anyway, after they bought the money they aged the bills with coffee in a hotel room. I just hope it was decaf. If you're gonna waste coffee, waste the decaf. I use the word accomplices -- Mel was the printer, I guess they were the fences, if that's the word. All that to say - after looking at a couple of articles I just don't see the figure of $200,000. Was that the amount used in the AMW video maybe? Also - I wonder if the accomplices are still around? If the one hooked up with Wilson after Leavenworth, maybe they also got back in touch with each other after Wilson fled in 71? Then again, figuring that it looks like he ratted on Wilson, maybe not.

Good point, good advice, 377. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

377 beat me to it it about the copyright thing..... As for selling - Not saying it's a good or bad marketing idea now that Geoffrey's title " Skyjack: The Hunt for DB Cooper" is out there. Although you are, as usual, awfully quick to malign and assume nefarious motives, I can still see the point you make. As a reader the title wouldn't necessarily bother me -- but that's a call Bruce will have to make for himself. Now as to the fairness of it, I do know that Bruce has had a work in progress in the "public eye" for over a year (Maybe longer - just know that I have a copy from Sept 2010) with the same title he is using now. Don't know when Geoffrey Gray first came out with his title. Just saying it may well be that Bruce used the phrase first. Regardless, it's not like it's a novel idea (

Opinions abound and yours is well known - but even if the fingerprints or DNA match Mel or any other suspect - until something is found that says otherwise, there is still no proof that he died that night. Just sayin.... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Re: Annette, et al..... Ouch, that smarts. Edited to say: I never thought about it, but I don't think I've ever washed a single tie in my entire life. In a household that over the years has included 4 males that have all attended multiple funerals, weddings, church services, and a couple of job interviews, I am now shamed into thinking this might be kinda gross. Please don't tell anyone. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

See what I mean? Jo, you make my eyes roll. Gonna say it just once more here so stay on track

Jo said..... Then, to be honest, you kinda lost me. Like I've told you before - if you would put a coherent, linear timeline of what you know of Duane's whereabouts from beginning to end (just the facts - no speculation, no going off on tangents, no referencing anything that went poof), people that like to look up esoteric minutiae (like me), might be better able to help you fill in some blanks or make sense of the wheres and the whens. But this I know is true.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqY6VjDtbvA

This is interesting...if this is Jo's Duane, then looks like he was no stranger to the St. Pete authorities before the 1957 episode...... From the Canton Repository, Canton, OH Jan 31, 1949 London, O. - .....Duane Weber, 25, who left the farm's honor camp (smokin sez: this would be the London Prison Farm, London, Ohio) last November, was arrested in St. Petersburg, Fla., for petit larceny and returned here. He was sentenced from Cleveland in 1947 to serve one to seven years for grand larceny. He will have to serve two years extra. This excerpt was the third paragraph in an article about another fugitive who had turned himself back in to the farm. Looks like this is saying that Duane was sentenced to the farm for grand larceny, 1-7 years in Cleveland, Ohio in 1947 - went awol or was on parole in November 1948 - and was sent back after he got arrested for petty larceny in St. Pete in January, 1949?? Jeez, that boy just couldn't keep from getting caught. Anyway..... for grins, I googled the London Prison farm and found this: The Department of Corrections originally housed BCI in the basement of the Ohio State Penitentiary in Columbus, Ohio until a fire and subsequent threat of riot by inmates in 1930 forced a move to the London Prison Farm.[1] During those early years, inmate labor performed most of the work. Interestingly, archives show these inmates reviewing, indexing and sorting fingerprint records. In the 1940s, BCI also had a printing press, and used inmate labor to produce the book entitled, "The Science of Fingerprint Classification: As Taught and Used in the Ohio State Bureau of Identification and Investigation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Bureau_of_Criminal_Identification_and_Investigation lol...talk about letting the foxes guard the hen house but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I think he means the first nylon parachutes made after they stopped using silk. I'm not the expert on chutes, that's for sure. However.... The 'I Told You So' Department: I was ridiculed (okay...CHALLENGED) when I pointed out that the Amboy chute could not be made of silk because silk is biodegradable and not being packed, it would have soon rotted in the cold, wet ground of Washington state. Yet the FBI continued to leave that explanation on their website and in press releases. Since 2008, no less. To make things worse, para-packer Earl Cossey is on record giving this same reason (silk, not nylon) as to WHY it could not be Cooper's. I also offered a possible reason why the FBI would just do a cursory investigation on the chute and then dismiss it. To admit the Amboy chute could be Cooper's, they would have to retract their position that Cooper died in the Columbia and that's how the money ended up at Tena Bar. Also, they would have to admit that Cooper got away with it, because you need a live person to bury a parachute. Sure, the money could be explained away by saying he died. But not the buried parachute. This, and the recent Marla Cooper claim, (and other stuff) is why I sometimes question the FBI's position on things they say are 'official' in the case. *Question Everything* Woah there Nelly.

Not that it matters and I'm dissing no one - I'll take whatever info from whomever it derives, but I still don't... and never will understand...no matter the explanation... why some "for-public-consumption" and some "presumably for-profit" folks get access to the inner workings of J. Edgar's finest and others don't. This one's rhetorical too - I get it - I just think it sucks. Okay - got that out of my system. proceed. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill