georger

You miss the whole point as does FJ. Evidently you wont accept Carr and the SF security person. It has always been known that the Cooper money was pulled from a special fund, not circulating cash! That money was packaged and handled differently for security reasons. It's simple! FJ always gets personal when he/she doesnt get his way. What banks do daily with their circulating cash has nothing to do with what was done in the Cooper case! The special fund kept and then used for the Cooper case is just a fact. Go back and read the thread. Or FJ can continue to peddle his nonsense citing 'words' people used for the Cooper money ........ The issue here is facts vs myth.

The Ingram report: 'As he did so, the boy turned up three bundles of money wrapped with rubber bands, which was a short distance below the surface of the sand.' 'The money came out in pieces'. - Pat Ingram. A $6000 bundle wrapped with 2 or more rubber bands, or, three bundles @$2000 each wrapped with rubber bands ? 2-4 bands or 6+ bands ? 'Harold's brother spent a long time working on the kitchen table picking pieces of stuck rubber bands off the money'.

I found Ckret's original post about bands vs straps - its pretty much as I recalled it. It is also my recollection that Ckret followed up his contact with the Seafirst Security person (and this DZ post) by finding and talking to a bank employee who was actually involved in packaging the money. I recall Ckret saying that person confirmed everything the security guard had said. Carr corroborates my version also, that he called Brian Ingram and then Brian's mother in this matter, as I did also. Here is Carr's post in full: Ckret Jumps License In sport : : : May 1, 2008, 9:33 AM Post #1637 of 21284 (5589 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Sep 7, 2007 Posts: 522 Re: [maurico] float time [In reply to] Can't Post And so I shall Maurico, Sorry, I have been crazy busy but I did make some progress. We could not find a photo (yet) of the bag used for the money but I was able to confirm it was like the one I posted, a simple money sack. As for the "shocking " information about the money, I spoke with the individual who carried the money from the bank to the airport the night of the hijacking. When I was talking with him he recounted that they were in the vault running the money through the counting machine and strapping the bundles. I didn't catch it at, first but later in our conversation I caught on to the strapping part and said, "wait a minute." "you were strapping the $20.00 bundles with $2,000 paper straps?" He said "yes" and I almost fell out of my chair. So I then started putting calls into Brian Ingram. He called me back and we spoke about the discovery of the money. What I found was that the money was not recovered near the water but about 20 to 40 feet from the edge. He said he found it in an area that had recently been covered in water. So I thought, "well not really much of a difference." I then asked for the details about the condition of the money when he found it and he confirmed, after speaking with his parents, that the money absolutely had rubber bands around the bundles. This makes sense because there is no way paper straps would have kept the money together over the years. So this all means, on face value, that if the money given to Cooper by the bank had paper straps and the found money had rubber bands....... well you could see how I was a bit perplexed. This would mean that either Cooper lived and repackaged the money or someone found the money and repackaged it. Which would be "par for the course" with regard to this case. I then went back and re-interviewed the bank security manager and found out that he wasn't directly involved in packaging the money, only carrying it to the airport. He was relaying what their ‘normal procedure’ was for processing and packaging money for shipment. The funds that were given to Cooper were not pulled from their circulating cash but from a security fund that was prepackaged for these types of incidents. This money was not strapped because the bank did not want any subjects to know where it came from so it was packaged with rubber bands. My head was spinning for a few days until I could get it straight. Ckret may have posted one more time about this matter, after he found and talked to the second bank employee. I will look for that. If someone has that post, please post it. At the time this matter came up, it had nothing to with randomised vs nonrandom counts per package of money, which has been FJ's concern. The issue at the time was about rubber bands vs paper straps, and nothing else as Ckret's post conveys. So far as I know, there is no 302 or book passage or movie or Tosaw script, that even covers what the SF Security guard conveyed. His testimony seemed to be unique at the time.

I think you are missing the options! What if the money is not in water - what happens to paper straps then? Are you saying straps trapped between bills dissolve also? Or are they cemented in to become part of Kaye's congregated mass? You are missing the options! Why not claim the absence of straps in the money means/proves: the money went immediately into the Columbia River, ie. water., the moment it fell to Earth on 11-24-71. Dissolution started immediately - instantly. Now all FJ has to do is tell us where in the Columbia, at say 8:30 pm pst ! Why hasnt all kraft paper on Earth dissolved by this point in history? I had no idea bank strap paper was so vulnerable! You should inform all art galleries and museums to beware! All schools, all paper vendors, all children and banks, .......... If the bands stuck to money paper, why not to paper straps? Perhaps the straps had dissolved right underneath all bands before the band could stick to them, like Houdini removing his pants in a tank of water! I can see why Carr isnt responding. Especially if he has any contrary news. Who wants to go up against FLYJACK! Or, you can just watch the movie. And, we can erase Ckret totally as being a reliable source for any information about the DB Cooper case, or is that too extreme?. Tom Kaye may be next. People here have developed better more reliable sources ! Maybe they have a competing movie in the works ?

Why are you making this personal? Georger's ego has nothing to do with this. This is simply a factual issue in the Cooper case. Either Carr talked to the bank employees, or he didn't. The world is waiting . . There is nothing more I can do or say. That is a relief to me!

Please identify where these 302s items are. Part and/or DBC number ? Since Carr refuses to comment, I wonder if he saw these 302s ? I guess its time to look up Ckret's actual posts on this matter - his socalled interviews which are now being questioned by FJ. I mean Carr had sources of some kind or he just made shit up: 302s, interviews of bank employees, etc ? Pat Ingram told me Carr had called her. So I know he was talking to people. But I dont have easy access to posts he made on this subject. Maybe FJ has already reviewed Carr's posts on this subject but just hasn;t posted them ? This potentially goes beyond mere historical accuracy. It changes the physical structure of the money packages and how these packages would act, in Nature. It potentially renders Tom's band/bundle experiments pointless and wrong. It raises questions about what the Ingrams saw and reported. It raises questions about Tina's story: Cooper can't just reach in and grab a bundle ($2000?) and offer it to Tina, as Tina reported. Cooper must first disassemble a 'package' of bills, remove rubber bands, to get to a single 'bundle' or 'strap' or whatever the individual packages were called. Or did Cooper reach in and grab a bound package of three bundles then offer that? By changing the structure of the money packages you change other related narratives. FJ knows that but he has avoided that issue so far. We have the new issue of paper straps dissolving. Nobody has tested that. "Mucklow recalls that at this time while the passengers were unloading, in an attempt at being humorous, she suggested to the hijacker ‘that there was obviously a lot of money in the bag and could she have some’! The hijacker agreed with her suggestion and reached in and took out one package of the money, denominations not recalled by Mucklow, and he handed the bundle of money to her! Mucklow states that she laughed and gave the money back to the hijacker stating ‘she was not permitted to accept gratuities’, or words to that effect. " Mucklow uses the words 'package' and 'bundle' in this passage. No lab report reports finding remnants of paper straps with the money. No shadows of protective bank straps across the middle of any bills ... at least not in natural lighting. It's entirely possible FBI agents talked to bank spokes-people who werent even involved in the actual packaging of the Cooper money! I seem to recall Ckret or somebody saying something along those lines, years ago when this matter was fresh at DZ. That was one reason Ckret wanted to talk to the people who actually packaged the money. It's an interesting dilemma. Did Carr or Kaye or anyone ask Tina about this?

No need to insult people Flyjack. This is a historical scientific problem, not a personal test with you at the centre! You can dismount your HIGH HORSE and your THRONE any time. We dont have Carr here to question. Carr previously said bank paper straps were avoided for security reasons so no bank would be identified to the hijacker. That is either true or false. The bill count per banded bundle is another matter.

Nothing personal about it! You are correct. Tina said "bank style bands", not "bank style straps". The Ingrams observed only rubber bands, not straps. A bank employee told Carr straps were omitted for security reasons - rubber bands only. It's entirely possible different people at Seafirst gave various agents and news people different versions. The Ingrams said the 'money came out in pieces'. This is consistent with cemented or congealed 'bundles'. Of varying counts/thickness ? One bundle askew from the next confirmed by TK? Before each bundle has had a chance to become a unitised piece? ..... early in the history at Tina Bar. Tom has always said he thinks the money was at Tena Bar a long time, but he has never explained why he thinks this or how the money could have come there so early in the Cooper history? You have offered your version of events and facts at Tena Bar. Others have offered their versions. The story continues!

So the people who found and saw the money, inspected it, picked bands off the money, etc .... have nothing to do with what they saw and touched? You are the first to eliminate the Ingrams from the money story! Hilarious! If you want to prove there were paper bank straps involved, find evidence of a paper strap! Its pretty simple. Your assertion that paper straps would all be dissolved, is a huge assumption and hogwash. Give us some evidence that paper straps dissolve at Tena Bar ! Give some evidence from a bank employee that paper straps were used. You have lucked out so far on one point: Carr apparently is no longer willing to discuss it! Likewise Tom Kaye! And so far, nobody has posted Ckret's previous posts on this matter - all of his posts vs the few you selectively post to bolster your self. I dont have the faintest fucking idea whats going on here, except a lot of people have dropped the ball with this, and their brains and their integrity along with it! Carr could clear this up in 2 minutes if he chose to! Likewise Tom Kaye. IMHO somebody is letting you run with this for some reason. Carr could come here and agree with you if that is the case !!! The fact is: Carr and Kaye were the principle investigators in this matter. Either they speak or the issue belongs to Fly Jack!

It would be easier just claiming that Carr and nobody else talked to the bank employees who packaged the money ............ or that Carr didnt understand what the employees said. That Carr got it wrong and cant admit mistakes ........ With Kaye fiddling while straps dissolved right in front of his eyes! Brian's reaction to all of this surfacing was interesting. Brian was curious and wanted to know - he didnt remember anything. Brian was fully cooperative and curious. We will probably never have the full story about who and why this suddenly surfaced (in 2010) out of nowhere. Only Ckret knows ? Maybe it was Ulis! ??? Eric of Portland as he was known then? Ulis wasnt even known back then. Or maybe it was Jerry Thomas who raised the issue? Why did this suddenly surface in 2010 and who brought it to the surface and why, that caused Ckret to suddenly get excited about it and communicate about it? Ckret isnt talking. Since Ckret actually talked to bank employees and Pat Ingram and actually posted his findings, and FJ hasnt, the weight of real evidence is on Ckret's side so far as I am concerned.

Ckret talked to two bank employees about rubber bands vs paper straps. Rubber bands and the reasons why only rubber bands, were confirmed. and so the story goes. Ckret communicated his findings to a number of people. Im curious why TK is always silent on this! I guess TK knows nothing about it. Nothing! Strategy. Im equally curious why a person who interviewed no one, knows so much about this! He uses different methods and sources ? He eliminates the need to talk to the people who packaged the money by relying on quotes by dead people, several crew interviews, and reports and words in 302s. And the paper straps magically vanished down to the last molecule because of the paper bank strap eaters at Tena Bar, that eat only paper straps and nothing else! How convenient can it be! And strangely, FJ has yet to tell us what printing if any was on those straps. It takes years to devise the right answer.

The rubber band lifetime chemical history began the day they were made. Then shipped to bank. Bank uses them eventually for the Cooper bundles. Band chemistry continues to unfold based on environmental factors, starting Nov 24 to Feb 1980 and discovery. Those band fragments detail that history ........ can be analysed! Fifty years later that history is probably frozen in time ......... sitting in someone's evidence folder. I tried to explain that to Ingram but he didnt seem to understand or care. I dont know - maybe he would have responded differently to Tom Kaye. Then we believe Jerry Thomas intervened and told Ingram to have nothing to do with us ... or Tom Kaye! ....... we did all we could do commensurate with people's feelings and wishes ... they held all the cards. Nothing else we could do. So here we are today and people still dont comprehend that the rubber band fragments could be one key in this case! You do what you can do and move on . . . its like looking for water in a dessert!

You're just guessing. You have no evidence. There is no evidence because the forensic people handling this case dont have the faintest idea what "evidence" would be! So they look at the obvious and nothing more. That leads to more guessing. What this case needs is a forensic person who knows what he or she is doing, and actual evidence to examine! Fifty years later that is asking for the Moon! All that is left is politics from the various players who have staked claims on the case supported by the Media. Its a dance of fools. There is no direction in the case. Only gridlock and victims and podcasts. For example, rubber band chemistry is completely independent of all theories about this case. But no effort was ever made to find and examine rubber band fragments. That is one of the first things TK should have done! The state of the rubber bands is directly tied to the money's history along well defined parameters. That has always been known and a fact ignored, in this case. Any forensic person could have told FBI agents that! There are other markers in this case that were ignored and continue to be ignored. This case was ready made for the theory makers. So that is what we have today, endless theory making. Its a dead end that only has orphans!

of course.

The last question is no. Read the thread!

The FBI compared whatever prints they had with prints of specific suspects, but did the FBI do any other print searches, with airlines files, military files, Boeing employee files, etc ? I dont recall seeing any 302 that confirms more general or company non-suspect print comparisons or searches ???

precisely - or someone with air controller experience, aviation experience, .... many related jobs could give someone that knowledge. But its strong evidence he knew what IFR was and entailed. And he isnt afraid to parachute from a jet. Did the FBI review pilots? .............. or clients of social services agencies like Voc Rehab who had been pilots but were in the system, or had been .... somebody knows this guy in some social context.

Edwards blog - January 11, 2023 D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: the IFR clearance In the FBI's new release “D.B. Cooper Part 78”, on pages 85-86, in a memo dated December 13, 1971 from the Special Agent in Charge at Minneapolis to his or her counterpart at Seattle, we may read the following: “[redacted] advised that in reviewing conversations held by the pilot during the hijacking the comment was made by the hijacker concerning IFR clearance, "you can pick it up in the air." This indicates to [redacted] that the hijacker has flying background inasmuch as he knew procedures for IFR clearance.” Cooper told Tina: 'I have a grudge, but not with your airlines' Does this imply 'some other airline' ? Maybe people should shift from tie particles Ti alloys, to pilots with a grudge against some airline in 1971 ?

Like it - funny! All depends on his haplotype !

Scientists have discovered that homo sapiens sapiens (us) still have all of the genes required to cover our bodies with a thick coat of hair in cold climates, except that in virtually all examples of our species these genes have been 'switched off'. The amount of 'off switching' varies by haplotype. Did Cooper have a hairy chest, arms, hands, beard-line, etc ? His haplotype is a physical grouping of genomic variants (or polymorphisms) that tend to be inherited together. https://www.sciencealert.com/humans-still-have-the-genes-for-a-full-coat-of-fur-scientists-discover

. . . all predicted by Nostradamus no doubt .... until Georgia took the field then everything came crashing down 68-7 !

"front ran a massive search operation, FACT" If you are talking about a group of people - why not say so! Name these people! State your claim in specifics otherwise this is just one more claim about Tina from the peanut gallery .

Family is not a "political action committee' or the "CIA" ! She also belonged to the church, had a faithe, .... and so it goes. She could ride a bicycle and had other skills. . . . she was part of the NWO Family. . . . . . I dont think the self-appointed Morality Police have anything on Tina! tHE hole issue is ludicrous.

Tina's camp? Tina's circle? Tina had a political action committee ? Who was her agent ?

There it is, if true. Stated in a neutral setting - no press, no cameras . . . none of the crew interviews by agents pitches one crew member against another. Each interview seems neutral.