georger

Tom does a good job covering a very broad complicated history. I dont know that other people in my universe could do this, as easily. Tom is definitely the high lite in the Cooper case. I never expected that! Kudos to Tom Kaye. Tom has accompl9ished a lot with very meager resources. With humor I say: this has gone way beyond the original six months allotted! The comparison of the Cooper tie with the Boeing employee tie is interesting. Is the Cooper tie a tie actually worn at a work site or simply a tie somebody pulled out of a dumpster at an industrial site ? Tom says nothing about where all these particles were found on the tie: spread across the whole tie, in one confined area, in the knot area only, front of the tie only, particles found on the back of the tie ??? The difference is an open exposed tie vs a lab coat covered tie, vs a tie found in an industrial dumpster where the whole tie gets exposed? Tom needs to share his McCrone data with industrial-occupational health researchers/chemists - people who routinely identify and deal with classes of industrial particles and contaminants needing to identify sources by occupational groups. This is why I brought up the Dictionary of Occupational Titles years ago and the people who deal with occupational disease (by classes) using large lists of particles and substances grouped by industrial classes. Tom may be consulting with the wrong people waiting on someone to send him a breakthrough, which may never happen! Tom still insists that his diatom data says the Tina Bar money was "buried in the Spring". All the data says is the money "was exposed" to diatoms starting in some Spring - year uinknown. Tim is still clinging to his old data about the rubber bands. Tom never apparently talked to Pat Ingram about the bands. So that data is probably gone forever. I agree with Tom. There is something wrong with Palmer's identification of the strata at Tina Bar. In fact, I go even further and say Palmer failed to give the right interpretation for the strata he found. Specifically Palmer failed to identify the significance of the cross bedded layer he found directly below the bundles of money found above it. And it appears Tom hasn't seen the issue either, yet ... if ever. Cross bedded layers represent 'time'. The clock on the Cooper money at TBar runs from Nov 1971-Feb 1980, which means the cross bedded layer directly below the money represents what slice of time? Is that cross bedded layer above dredging layer or part of it ?

What did Tom Kaye say in CC22 that he hasnt already said before? Anything? Any new forensic "evidence" ? Any new areas of inquiry planned? Anything actually new? Until somebody comes up with something "actionable" in the Cooper case, discussing suspects to death is a dead end. Each one of these suspects, socalled, only fragments the case further since none of these stories has anything "actionable". People can sit in the DB Cooper Ward IV and make up stories until the end of time but it contributes nothing to the case except to diminish and dilute the case over time. Why hasn't Darren interviewed Dorwin Schreuder? Is Darren afraid of what Dorwin may say?

OK... this user considers you both very valuable assets - hands down! Civility Please . There has been enough turmoil in Cooperland. Thanks to you both and everyone else. Life is tough these days and I have had a very shitty week so far ..... I have coffee brewing and am going to get it now and curl back into my office chair .... Just blame everything on Georger.

Frankly I dont either - it may be something bureaucratic vs hiding data. The FBI does not want to be sued by somebody, for one thing. There are a billion lawyers and fanatics out there ready to pounce on anything and that costs money and time! Eng and Carr have always stressed the issue of 'resources'. I think its true!

They would be skin cells, not nuclear dna, unless there are blood cells there. The FBI apparently has a skin cell swab from the tie which produced a multiple donor partial of some kind. They stated the kit the lab used so we know the loci that were tested for .... but the FBI wont share the information. Kaye supposedly took dna samples from the tie but that got botched/contaminated by himself.

Cooper said he had a 'grudge'. 'I have a grudge but not against your airlines'. Was stress on your or airlines? Tina apparently didnt explore it further. The unabomber, for instance, had specific complaints based on specific events in his life, but it generalised into ;'technology' 'airlines' 'railroads' 'corporate management' . . .

Touch dna - yes.

Lots of Coopers in Virginia - a few Daniels. Family goes back to he Revolutionary War. Arrived via land Grant from King George then rebelled; settled 26 original families in the Shenandoah Valley. See Cooper cemetery near Star Tannery VA. Famous family name synonymous with rebellion and liberation in American Revolutionary War. re- the fighting Quakers. (* Cartmells History of the Shenandoah Valley)

Tom found the rare elements in what area of the tie? Lab coats expose only the upper area of a tie. Why so few rare elements, compared to the total? Is it a one time only exposure to the rare elements? Shouldnt there be more of these rare elements if this was a daily exposure over time ?

Darren said he wanted to interview Schreuder. STILL WAITING! Posts tonight are interesting and thoughtful. Appreciate that. Good luck!! It appears there are some good people working so .... Happy Thanksgiving to all. ..................

Its hard for me to believe that CC22 wasnt video taped. Is the world going to be allowed to see/hear the presentations? Or, how much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ does Ulis want ? If these people want progress in the case they are going to have to share what they think or know! These people want attention when they have something to say - but seem unwilling to share what they have. Research is a two-way street. One researcher always remarks: "This is DB Cooper. = Chaos". If that is the only option then . . . . .

well said.

For those who dont know, 'couve' refers to Vancouver. https://www.visitvancouverwa.com/blog/post/the-couve/ Arent we fortunate to get this love note from Tom Kaye and Nicky Bee. The photo is revealing. How tall is Tom?

sample comments CC22: level 1 XoXSciFi DB Cooper Case Proficiency It's forty bucks a ticket, times three days, and a long drive from where I live. Only a hundred if you buy all three days. That is FOUR TIMES last year's rate, and for last year's gathering about half the people didn't show up the second day even though they paid for both days in advance. (Last year was a TWO-day event, at $20 for both days paid in advance, i.e. ten bucks a day. This time it is FORTY bucks a day.) I have a certain objection to that rate, but I do support the event in spirit and because it is Cooper-related. BalfourDigger DB Cooper Case Proficiency Are you kidding me? So now I gotta pay $100 to get told by Bruce to buy his book? I can go do that a dozen times for free on any other DB Cooper site. Only kind of joking. Boy, what poor old SOB is going to have a distant relative accuse them of being an airplane hijacker in a $20 slapped together e-pub manuscript this year? Called Carr and he isnt attending - scheduling conflict, he says.

Its daily cross word puzzles. People compete to make up the puzzles. Its like watching people at a ball game. It often has no relationship to reality. Its a social game. Like the Mickey Mouse Club. People are awarded points for the best moves. For example: NickyB @WeSupplyYou in Miami is currently operating as a world class expert in materials science. He traded in his toner cartridges for alloys! ............................ read the Oregonian Newspaper on Monday to find out more. The next great idea may be to hold CoooperCon23 in North Korea combined with an ICBM launch by Kim Jong-un. CooperCon players may finally receive recognition by CNN in time to run for political office in Arizona. All because of the DB Cooper case. One promoter says Elvis Presley is his idol. A daily cross word puzzle with high stakes ? It has ceased to have anything to do with the DB Cooper hijacking case. Its crazy.

Im not so sure. Ulis changes his mind every Thursday. Again on Tuesday. And again on Sunday. Each time he is as certain as the last time. 365 positions per year. Whatever he can produce into something money making, he said. Everything is just a tool for Ulis and it changes daily. When CC22 ends it will fade into oblivion in time for the next news release. People are already tired of this nonsense. Ulis ran out of ideas the day he started this chain letter .... because there is nothing of substance. Just ideas and debates of nothing. This year there were several CooperCons to select from - which one did Ulis attend?

These guys are making a major mistake not having this open ... TO THE PUBLIC.

is it live somewhere ? I have a football game at three and grandkids to herd.

You raise important questions. I cannot speak for Tom. Tom's websites are publicly available: https://www.tomkaye.com/ Only Tom can speak to how his work is being funded, etc. A number of FBI 302s released to date, document lab working being done in the Cooper case. Detailed Lab work reports are apparently not going to be released. Snippets of reports concerning lab work must be assembled in order to gain a better picture of what certain areas of Lab analysis is saying. We seem to be missing comprehensive Lab reports, if they exist at all ? Maybe Tom or Larry Carr can address that. Tom has the unenviable task of trying to explain his work and forensic matters to a public audience. I dont envy anyone put in that role! That role has become untenable at times in what has been termed: The Cooper Vortex! Accuracy and science is sometimes sacrificed in that process, inevitably. Facts and opinions and conjectures all get mixed in this vortex. No single person can even hope to manage all of that, much less Tom Kaye, SA Larry Carr, or anyone else! In that context, specific scientific issues usually rise back to the surface as unanswered, and I think that is where we are today ... so be patient! Nothing is free in this world. Is a thing an alloy or not? There are standard tests that should be conducted to answer that question to a reasonable level of certainty, acceptable to a critical audience. I dont know what tests have even been run ... since Eric Ulis says its an alloy, ask Eric Ulis to produce his Lab tests for public scrutiny ? I mean it's one thing to run a CooperCon because of public interest; it's another thing to do actual science.

Good points! !!! How did I miss this So, can any of the particles be dated ? Due to their nature, magnetic, or radio active properties, or date of manufacture ? That would be interesting... the tie was manufactured in the early sixties (63?), and sold 64-65 I think FJ said. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. What can we do with this? Could the magnetic properties of these particles point us to where the tie was made, sold, or possessed by Cooper ?

You left out 'Barb Dayton' !

Tom had a materials destruction expert working with him - is Dick still on board? Tom would try to determine if the Ti particle is an alloy, or not. I would listen to Tom over Ulis on this. If Tom has doubts, then there are doubts. Tom has a community of people he can draw on for advice. Ulis doesnt even know the questions to ask! Ulis is an amateur. Tom is a professional.

It sounds like EU wants his particle to be an alloy because his identified company worked with alloys ? Eric calls Cooper press conferences, the way six year olds make pancakes! Everything EU does is always crude and haphazard, if not crazy. Thats just a fact.

Ulis is not a materials expert. He doesnt have a lab. Has Tom consulted Dick Stone? Has Ulis tested clothing from his suspect that shows the same suite of particles Tom found on the tie? Is the whole suite of particles present at Rem Cru . . . Has the FBI tested the suspect's dna? Has anyone seen the suspect's medical records ... etc ? ! Why did Ulis announce this before doing all of the testing necessary and working with the suspect's family ? There are protocols to be followed in these matters ...

good grief!