georger

Cooper was a scumbag and poor, who needed money, and died in the jump. That may all be wrong. A search was done after the hijacking to try a connect Cooper to motels etc - that came up blank. But what if Cooper was a person of means and had some place in the Portland area to hold up and wait, a place that was warm and dry - as the rubber band facts require ? But, Cooper was gleeful at the sight of $200k brought in in a bag and placed at his feet! Cooper needed money or his defiant confrontation of the government, was working, in the context of massive social turmoil in America 1971 ? I sometimes wonder if the whole focus in the Cooper Vortex has been wrong, as a function of the personalities involved. There are places that FBI 302s will never go or reveal.

R99 is playing games - but at the DBCForum he posts: Robert99 Hero Member « Reply #8112 on: Today at 01:11:32 AM » Chaucer, if Air Traffic Controller (not radar controller) R16 never heard from NWA 305 then they could not be communicating. If after trying to contact someone on 133.9 several times and getting no response, the airliner would revert to the previous controller and explain the situation. And I am sure the previous controller would get the matter cleared up in less than 60 seconds and provide the correct frequency for the next controller. These communications should be in the Seattle ATC transcripts. Gerald H. Osterkamp, the Chief of the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center, certified that his original communication transcripts were between NWA 305 and controllers R2, R5, R6, and R10 and included everything that was recorded relevant to the hijacking. Since all of the air traffic communications are recorded, it is obvious that some have been redacted. And the number of redactions in the Seattle transcripts totals 19. You are now saying that Larry Carr was only referring to the communications over the ARINC frequency, which is not an air traffic control frequency. The redactions that Carr was apparently referring to would be the missing transcripts in the ARINC teletype transcripts that the WSHM detected in their examination of the roll of ARINC teletype transcripts from the George Harrison family that they were able to examine. The Larry Carr comments have been cited in your own previous posts as I noted in earlier posts. For your information, the FBI listed the FAA as one of the organizations that did not want to release any further information on the Seattle ATC transcripts as a result of my FOIAs. And a FOIA direct to the FAA was also unproductive. The end result remains that there are 19 unexplained redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts. ................................................. WSHM had said: Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A: 8 missing or redacted. Why has Carr not responded directly to any of this confusion ? This isnt going away until it is resolved. The flight path is fundamental to the DB Cooper story...

WSHM claims are explicit I posted them - you wont even post your claims! Just answer the guy who originally asked you ............................ FOR A CHANGE! Stop spinning and blaming and diverting - just answer the guy's question. This has nothing to do with me! Take all the time you need. Hopefully not years.

One more time! Here is the actual WSHM statement on "missing or redacted" lines verbatim: MAIN POINTS - WSHM HARRISON PAPERS ANALYSIS – ATC vs ARINC transcripts the files of George E. Harrison, DMTS, District Manager of Technical Services for Northwest Airlines stationed at Seattle, relating to the events of November 24, 1971 involving the hijacking of NW flight 305 by Dan “DB” Cooper. 1. Handwritten notes by George Harrison, describing the hijacking minute by minute, d. 11/24/71, (23 pages) – digitized in PDF format, hereafter referred to as WSHS no. 2013.5.23.1; 2. Correspondence, receipts, and other documents regarding hijacking of Northwest Airlines flight 305, both handwritten and typed; varying dates, from 11/24/71 to 5/19/72, (14 pages total) - digitized in PDF format, hereafter referred to as WSHS no. 2013.5.23.2; 3. Two rolls of teletype (TTY) printout, produced by ARINC for Northwest Airlines, both rolls d.11/24/71. For discussion purposes, the teletype printout rolls are here identified as “roll A” and “roll B.” The last entry examined on this roll bore a matching entry on 2013.5.15.5 [page 106 of transcript; page 18 of PDF file] with a timestamp of 8:20 PM (PST). This report covers the findings of the visual analysis of the ARINC teletype rolls, by WSHS curators Fred Poyner IV and Gwen Whiting. No timestamps were visible on the printout, in correlation with the entries made. However, comparative matches of individual entries were possible, by a comparison of roll A with the public released printout Roll B obtained from the FBI (2013.5.15.5) later released by a newspaper called the PI Transcript, of flight 305 communications. For discussion of the analysis of missing sections, roll A was the primary source of information. Roll B was identical to roll A in terms of material and appearance, except in three areas: Report findings: Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:  Between 4:45 PM and 4:51 PM -- one entry of teletype text  Between 5:16 PM to 5:22 PM – 3 entries of teletype text  Between 5:37 PM and 5:47 PM – 3 entries of teletype text  Between 5:47 PM and 6:21 PM – 12 separate entries of teletype text  Between 6:25 PM and 6:38 PM – 4 entries of teletype text  Between 6:44 PM and 6:59 PM – 2 entries of teletype text  Between 7:48 PM and 7:54 PM – 1 entry of teletype text  Between 7:54 PM and 8:05 PM – 4 entries of teletype text Finding No.1 - These entries appear to reflect aircraft information about Northwest flight 305 and its outbound flight from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport on 11/24/1971 Finding no. 2 – The examination of the teletype printouts in both roll A and roll B, reveal that there are no missing sections of type reflected between the timestamps for 8:10 PM (PST) to 8:12 PM (PST); 8:12 PM to 8:20 PM (PST); or 8:20 PM to 8:24 PM (PST), when compared to the public released transcript entries found for these same time periods [ref. 2013.5.15.5]. Finding no. 3 – While not conclusive, the ARINC teletype rolls A and B that were part of George Harrison’s files may be the same “radio logs” referenced in the letter sent by Harrison to J.A. Rigby, d. 11/26/1971, in paragraph 4, page 1. The letter indicates that these logs were provided to the FBI c/o J. Earl Milnes, the SAC for the Cooper investigation at the time, so that the FBI could make their own copy then return the originals to NW Airlines. Finding no. 4 – In the examination of the rolls A and B, and accompanying documents made available on loan to WSHS from the Harrison estate, no conclusive information was discovered as to who or why the ARINC teletype entries were omitted from the FBI’s publicly released version of the radio log [ref.2013.5.15.5]. Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A: Poster's Note* The WSHM statements above are different from R99's claims.

Here is what R99 said years ago, quote: R99 4 22 2020 The above nonsense by the Poster-who-must-not-be-named only further evidences his lack of aeronautical qualifications and his interest in spreading disinformation. Here are some facts. Even in 1971, all radio communications between aircraft and air traffic control were recorded. These recordings were used during investigations of accidents and incidents. The Cooper hijacking was an "incident". The Seattle Air Traffic Control Center recorded all radio communications it had with the hijacked airliner during the time it was in their airspace. That includes the time frame starting with its departure from Portland a few minutes after 3:00 PM PST until it was handed off to the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center in Northern California at 9:45 PM PST. Gerald H. Osterkamp, Chief, Seattle Center, had a transcript of those communications prepared and certified that "I hereby certify that the following is a true transcription of the recorded conversation pertaining to the subject incident". Osterkamp had a Xerox copy of his original true transcription prepared and certified on that copy that "I certify that this is a true copy of the original which is on file at this office". It is a partial copy of that copy that made its way into what we have today which has 19 redactions. There is absolutely no way that we have a copy of the original transcription that Osterkamp prepared. It is plainly evident that Osterkamp's original certifications page was prepared on a different typewriter than the redacted transcript that found its way to Sluggo or wherever. The Oakland Air Traffic Control Center and the Reno Tower recorded all radio communications with the hijacked airliner from 9:45 PM PST until the aircraft shut down on the Reno airport ramp at 11:22 PM PST. Donald E. Erink, Chief, Oakland Center, had a transcript prepared of those communications and certified that "I hereby certify that the following is a true transcription of the recorded conversation pertaining to the subject hijacking". It is a safe assumption that Erink kept a copy of that transcript in his office files. As I have stated any number of times before, the Oakland Center transcripts do not contain any redactions and are classic air traffic control communications for 1971. The Oakland Center controllers communications were straight out of the controller's textbook. The Seattle and Oakland original transcripts still exist today unless someone purged them in a CYA attempt. Both the FBI and FAA would have copies of the originals since this is an ongoing criminal case. And those transcripts are of communications that were made over air traffic control radio frequencies and could, and probably were, heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest. Lastly, such communications are in the public domain. R99 has brought us no closer than we were years ago.

Cute. You are the expert. You tell us!

Obviously, R99 is hinting at positional information, or any communication that would reveal flight path positions 305 was on, but 'somebody' redacted when the "PI Transcript' was made public. Who posted the comms transcript first? Sluggo via Carr, or the SeattlePost Intelligencer? The Transcript appeared almost simultaneously from both sources. Later, WSHM made it a centerpiece in their exposition. So far as I can tell neither R99 or the WSHM has ever stated explicitly what the socalled redactions are or how anyone determined there were redactions. This never got straightened out in the Old DZ because both R99 and WSHM demurred from any explicit statement. Others who have examined the Transcript say there are/were no redactions - period! And for the record, "60 Minutes" has never stated it either! It is a conspiracy theory R99 has pushed for years even before the WSHM Cooper exposition. . Spreading doubt about everything has always been key in R99's arsenal. Maybe the actual proof is back at R99s hotel room ? He and they know it - but nobody else knows it - yet ? It may be coming on the next .... asteroid ?

I also think that is where Jo got this. Did Duane have a scar on his left hand?

Apparently, Cooper was a loner - or was he? He built a bomb, said he had found the right plane in the right place at the right time, live or stayed somewhere on planet Earth, but the massive FBI investigation picked up nothing related to a Cooper NETWORK. All humans have a Network! People cant exist without one. The Cooper tie manifests evidence of some massive network - somewhere on Earth. But nobody can crack the network, like some extinct code. Bruce Smith has been forced to tap the paranormal! Cooper was CIA, KGB, ........ maybe Cooper came from Oak Island ? He used the human information network but does not connect to it. Only Galen Cook KNOWS! Jo Weber KNEW! Happy Halloweiner.

Nonsense. Not psychiatric. Look up "Street Corner Society". Basic sociology and social-psychology, born of basic human survival needs and how people satisfy those needs in the urban context. Spying, networking, and collecting information has always been vital to human survival ... from the earliest times.

The three real experts on Jo Weber were (a) Galen Cook, Bruce Smith (b) Sluggo, and (c) a female attorney in the Portland-Vancouver area Jo talked to frequently by phone, visited on her trip to WA, ... this female attorney was plugged into the Cooper case and was full of the latest FBI info she then conveyed to JO. That was Jo's source for FBI info nobody else had and I think Jo conveyed this to Mr Cook ........ I would have to dig out old emails between myself and Cook. I probably posted something about this years ago here at DZ but people payed no attention. Jo Weber was a networker' and a 'busybody' because it was part of her and Duane's profession. OleMiss speculates about this in his recent interview with Darren, wondering how it was that Jo often had privileged info about what the FBI was doing etc in the Cooper case - according to Cook it was some female attorney in the Portland area Jo talked to almost daily... To understand Jo you had to know and understand her connections. Her telephone was her primary device for obtaining information. When Jo finally took her trip to WA, supported by some producer she claimed, she apparently got snubbed by a lot of people she had hoped she would be welcomed by ... and she went home empty handed and pissed (so goes the story conveyed by Cook). Perhaps Cook was playing a double role, conveying info about Jo to the FBI ? But to understand Jo Weber you have to understand Galen Cook, Bruce Smith, and Jerry Thomas, and Ralph Himmelsbach. The backstory on Jo and other 'researchers' has often been more important than the Cooper story itself but vital to understand in order to track and understand people's claims and any info they claim to have. The Citizen Sleuths had hardly been formed before Jo Weber was already all over it trying to contact members ... to leverage information. And the same from Geof Gray ...

I want to draw attention to the Ryan Burns, criminal attorney interview at: https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-is-misunderstood-ryan-burns/ It is an exceptional interview imo with valuable research insights. It's a long interview but worth your time. Burns draws on his background as a practicing criminal attorney to evaluate Cooper's profile and actions, in detail. I like Burn's rational - behavioral approach and his ability to pick apart people's stories and various facets of the Cooper case testimony.. Burns makes a very strong presentation comparing and evaluating the most prominent Cooper suspects. Its worth your time. Ryan can be found on the DB Cooper Mystery Group of Facebook or on The DB Cooper Forum and the DropZone under the user name OleMissCub. I am impressed with the amount of quality thought and work Burns has put into the Cooper case. More about Ryan's interview later.

But EVERYONE is Cooper! Everyone is entitled. Soon no one will care.

I dunnoh. Is it shot? Maybe its a comment. Maybe its a fact! Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Has Flo or any other witness, approved your drawing(s) ? Of course not.

Houston we have a problem. Some corpse is stuck to the lander. Should we try and shake it off, or blast it off ! ?

What khamul will 'Erik of Portland' manufacture next? A breakthrough in Yeti research?

V23 was a 'very heavily used' airway.

Is there some point to this ? Something relevant to the Cooper hijacking case ?

How was the Portland office organised and who was in charge of whom, and what, etc. How did the Portland office fit in the system of other FBI offices in the State of Washington. Where did Himmelsbach fit in that system vs-a-vis the Cooper case? What were H's biases and why ? (his background is key) https://www.seattletimes.com/pacific-nw-magazine/ralph-himmelsbach-spent-the-last-9-years-of-his-fbi-career-on-the-1971-d-b-cooper-hijacking-and-then-put-it-squarely-behind-him-at-least-until-someone-else-brought-it-up/

Somewhere in this mix is a genetic formula that Cooper fits into. I wish we had more definite better info. The one thing Cooper cannot escape is being 'who' he was!

Did Hancock agree with sketch B ?

Oh my! Another new artists sketch of DB Cooper. Will it ever end! ? Total different Cooper look, based on ... read the article on Edward's blog. The 'meaner than a skunk genius' look. ?

My impression is, based on years of knowing Dorwin, he has always been open to an interview so it may be long overdue. Others including producers have interviewed Dorwin many times over the years. Time is running out, literally.

JAG has asked that Dorwin Schreuder be interviewed - I agree! I am rather sure Dorwin would agree to this - good luck. Of particular interest should be the fragment field Dorwin and his colleagues found, its exact location relative to the Ingram find, its contents, its location relative to the Ingram find vis Crystal Ingram's statement about where she said the Ingram's found their money, where the fragments went and are currently stored, ............ and any thoughts Dorwin may have about where the Cooper case goes from here...