georger

377 One detail Ive never been clear about is what stairs (or combination of stairs) were used for what? I guess passengers and stews departed via the front stairs nearest the cockpit, whereas money and chutes were brought on via the rear stairs (with Cooper still in the bathroom during part of this)? A diagram of the scene at SEA would be helpful ...

woops you're right I was thinking about something else - psychological slip (if that tells ya anything). Hey we agree for a change!

This is correct. After being a DZO for 6 years I flew jumpers for about 4 years and logged 1500+ hours flying them. I did this at a number of locations in NJ, MD, DE and PA. Time period roughly 1973-1978. I communicated with ATC from Philadelphia, Dover Air Force Base, NAFEC and BWI. NAFEC is located near Atlantic City and is the home of the National Aviation Facilities Experimental Center.(The name is different today.) They test just about everything related to avionics, communications,radars and more. I mention this because not all controllers could tell how many jumpers left the plane; only those from NAFEC could do that. [If I recall correctly,it was a long time ago, but maybe other did also.] Without a chart to determine exactly, I'll guess that the distances for the two DZs and NAFEC was about 30 miles. The controllers from all locations could all tell that jumpers departed the plane with out any prompting from me. In my younger, teenage years of ham radio, I always thought--mistakenly, obviously--that radar required metal for a return. Since the amount and size of metal attached to a jumper is not large, radar must get a return from the jumper too. Plus, radar can detect precipitation and flocks of birds, why not jumpers? Although I question a correlation between the 'pressure bump' and the exit, the pilots could have asked ATC if they saw anything at that time. I don't recall reading that they did ask. Now, stop mentioning my name so I can catch a few senior winks before bedtime. good info - you always supply good info - thanks. "the pilots could have asked ATC if they saw anything at that time. I don't recall reading that they did ask. " reply: I am told the pilot(s) was communicating on both vhf and uhf - uhf being a military frequency. ATC had similar capability. The PI Transcipt does not cover all of the communications which occurred during the critical time period. We already know that ... G

I was speculating about the loss of the raw radar tapes, but it was based on the fact that nobody has been able to produce them or at least not publically. We have a good idea of the flight path, but Coopers exact exit point is a mystery that the raw radar tapes would probably have solved. I was speculating that you were speculating ... but was more nearly correct based on the conversations I have had. Did you ask your sources what happened to the tapes and where the tapes were?

I do wish they had saved the raw radar tapes from the SAGE system at McChord from that night. Who knows what we might have been able to extract from them today. We do know that the processed SAGE data display would have blocked a Cooper exit echo on the screen, but I bet it was in the raw signal. and your PROOF they didn't ? You have no proof. The FACT is McChord was taking its orders from elsewhere. McChord had no discretion in this matter. Fairly strict protocols applied in matters of this kind. Protocols which apply to this very day ... What is this "we do know..." nonsense? Are you writing a book with Blevins? Stick to a topic for 1 minute & stop rambling like Jo? Very likely nothing of substance is ever going to be posted here. I wonder why! Please continue your regularly scheduled rambling ... Occam's Razor states: One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything. (Leibnitz) [edit] If you apply Occams Razor to this case then things get simple very quickly... the placard dropped nearly directly under flight path, the money at Tina Bar at or nearly under flight path ... and you can connect the dots however other facts allow. Even Himmelsbach was saying by 1978 (or earlier) that Cooper bailed "12 miles north of Portland ... the previous estimate was wrong." He repeated this statement publically in at least 5 interviews BEFORE any money had turned up at Tina Bar. No east route was mentioned or existed on anyone's screen, literally. No east route existed prior to the money find in Feb 1980 and two consultant reports given the FBI which supplied the idea of a Washougal washdown Theory ... and worse, if there ever was an east route nobody involved in the east route on the ground who would have known about it! knew and still does not know! anything about it, neverheard of it. So, it must have been secret to the point of being secret from those directly involved ON THE GROUND. To quote one person interviewed last year who would have known, who would have had to know!: "WTF is that about!? This is the first time Im hearing about this ... we were told .... we would have known about this .... WE SAW ...etc etc etc etc etc......."

You may change your mind. Or you may not.

The alien story appears to be urban myth. So does the Duane as a Ranger trained jumper story. 377 No. A myth is defined as: "A myth is a sacred narrative that validates a religious system passed on through traditions of a body of people. Normally, myth transpires outside or before human time. Mythic events within human history are usually called legends." Duane as a Ranger is meither a myth, an urban myth, or a legend. All it is is Jo Weber's story ... which you talk about a lot! So you and Jo are the only people on Earth talking about this - does this body of two people on Dropzone make it a legend? I doubt it. This is a two person legend developed at a carnival expressly designed to stop the crowd to pay attention and spend time .... ... for what purpose God and you and Jo only know! perverse entertainment I guess.

Could you pass a 555-Triple-Nickle-jumpers- in-the-Pacific-NW lie detector test? Would you take one?

According to the televsion show that I saw, this lab is at the forefront of conducting skin cell DNA analysis Their web site http://www.forensic-services.nl/ explains Here is a link closer to home that might interest you - poke around and compare to the NL link. http://www.broadinstitute.org/about/bios/bio-lander.html Happy hunting.

Georger, have you ever asked anyone's permission to post anything? Perhaps I can give you something that will shock the socks off you and Grey. Tonight I learned about yet another book coming out in March. Strange as it may sound the story is shockingly similar to Weber's story and his life. Guess that got hijacked also. There is a problem with this story. When the money was found Coffelt was dead. When the money was found McCoy was dead. Brown's story (90% of which was plagurized) added a remedy for this, but it was only added AFTER the money find and not by the orginal writer. A woman with Dumb Blonde Syndrome who has consistently recited her story and accused of being a liar and delusional is the only person to put the money in the Columbia during the time frame Palmer and recent testing placed the money in the water. Outside of theory and stories told to support this - there is only one story that fit the testing of the money. She did not even "get it" because the FBI and others reported the money had been in the water since the 1971 hijacking. The most comprehensive knowledge she had of the crime came in May of 1996 from the first few chapters of a fictional book and she had no knowledge Dan Cooper was D.B. Cooper until that night in May of 1996...and the FBI tapes of her hysterical ramblings on that night in 1996 substanciate this. Go Figure! Oh, Ive had to ask a couple of permissions along the way. Otherwise I stay within my circle. Why do you ask? Is it something specific? What will shock Geof at this point?

This is what I mean - everyone wants in the Cooper race to oblivion. Why isnt there a Corporate Party? Everyone would buy into that ..... for a job. I once ran a dog named Lyon for student body President - was called by Dean ______ to his office to explain - was threatened - "... you do know I went to school with your uncle and God damnit all it would take is one call ... we expected a lot more out of you Georger! .... I want you to take down every poster you have put up I dont care how long it takes and if you dont .... Lyon won the election. 3067 to 38 ! The election results were thrown out and the runner up installed with the former Student Body President installed as Advising VP. So my advice is run a dog for President. It will change everything, for the worse! Martial Law will follow.

Damn! Ive been found out - But, I am contemplating a post that will shock the socks off everyone. I only need permission from Geof Gray to do this. I suppose you see thru this also. Time for a nap. We old bastards need lots of naps.

You're killing me. TESTS ON THESE FLOWERS ON THE OUTLET OF THE WASHOUGAL "PROVE" THEY ARE DAN COOPER and a recycled parachute! ... CASE KLSOED! Its all over the news! TV specials coming soon ... YAHOOOO!

Order to attack: _ the sketches are wrong _ peopole can't remember and describe _ people are idiots - human memory is flawed _ all physics is wrong _ there are no basic shapes in Nature _ nobody can draw/depict anything _ nobody drew Cooper correctly _ a schizy witness should always be believed _ Schafner will agree to anything - consult her! _ promotions is science. science is promotion. _ always rely on witchcraft and inquisition ... I have left several things off the list but does not matter... further fuel for promoters peddling their wares - Only YOU can define Cooper so get to work ! YOU as a special person have knoweldge about the Cooper case that NOBODY else on Earth has - use it! Take advantage of ANARCHY AND CLAIM SOME FAME.

Funny thing is that Pete doesn't seem to lie about or spin his background. His early skydiving achievements have been confirmed as has his smoke jumper credentials. I have little doubt about his job claims. Seems to be a straight shooter. You rarely see a man with such impressive "tough guy" credentials be so left leaning, anti govt and such a pacifist. Bruce, if you establish contact I'll buy Pete a jump. Probably have to be tandem given his age and that no DZ has round canopy rental gear. I don't think he has flown squares. I'll buy him some good Bourbon too, something from Jo's old hood in KY. Pete is one of the O.G.s of skydiving. 377 What would Peterson's motivation have been for doing a hyjacking? Had no need with ample revenue earning potential in multiple directions - just to smart for a common hyjacking ? I think Snowman mentioned this before ...

Their web site http://www.forensic-services.nl/ explains "Our Forensic DNA services include: Evidence Examination: Finding the evidence is the first and most crucial step in the whole DNA process. The forensic scientists of Independent Forensic Services have extensive experience in both trace recovery and generating forensic DNA-profiles from all biological traces, with a special expertise on the most difficult ones: skin epithelia cells. This experience, which is of great importance for the chance of obtaining a DNA profile, can be crucial in finding DNA which could be left by a perpetrator. IFS uses all the modern equipment available to detect biological traces and have developed a unique system of special lenses and computer software to enhance the possibilities of trace recovery. Evidence Sampling: Sampling the biological material is the second crucial step. On several occasions it has been the expertise and method used by the scientists of IFS to sample a specific biological trace which generated the decisive DNA-profile. Flexibility and creativity in sampling are important characteristics in the way IFS handles the evidence sampling. DNA Extraction: When samples have been taken from pieces of evidence to perform a DNA analysis, the goal is to extract the DNA and separate the DNA molecules from other cellular materials and from pollutions present. Based on our experience and by closely following the latest techniques IFS is able to choose the optimal isolation technique for the material where the DNA must be isolated from. DNA Quantification: Before the amplification process, IFS quantifies the appropriate amounts of DNA needed for optimal DNA amplification. IFS uses Real Time RT-PCR techniques, which are able to detect as little as 2 picogram of DNA. The advantage is that no precious DNA isolate is wasted. There is less need to rerun samples for DNA amplification, which saves time and reduce costs. Due to quantification of the samples IFS is also able to distinguish samples containing no DNA, male DNA, female DNA or a mixture of male and female DNA. This enables IFS to increase the throughput of samples taken by trace recovery, make a pre-selection of samples and choose the appropriate amplification method. DNA Amplification (PCR): Subsequently to the DNA isolation and quantification, a method is used in which specific regions of DNA are multiplied. This is done by means of the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR). During this process, the target DNA fragments are replicated over and over again using the enzyme DNA polymerase. In general, 28 of these multiplication steps are performed to yield many copies of the DNA fragments, resulting in the PCR product. In addition, IFS use the Low Copy Number (LCN) technique to increase the amount of PCR product when needed. IFS is able to amplify very low amounts of PCR up to 2 picogram successfully. By using commercially available validated kits, IFS effectively amplifies both autosomal and Y-chromosomal DNA from various samples. DNA Analysis: The length of the multiplied DNA fragments is established by means of capillary electrophoresis (CE). During the amplification steps, several colour labels are attached to the DNA fragments. Consequently, the length of the DNA fragments can be established precisely by separating the different PCR products in an electric field and capturing the data using a CCD camera. IFS uses of a very sensitive Genetic analyser which, has been proven to generate high quality profiles. DNA Profiling: For forensic applications, several amplification kits are available. Using these kits, several DNA loci can be investigated simultaneously. These loci can be found on both the autosomal chromosomes as well as on the gender chromosomes. The DNA kits frequently used by IFS are the Identifiler, Minifiler and Yfiler Amplification Kits from Applied Biosystems. Using these techniques, 16 locations (loci) on the DNA can be investigated simultaneously. If a full DNA profile is generated, it can be established with great certainty whether the cell material in a specific sample could or could not originate from a certain person. DNA Profile Interpretation: Experienced IFS personnel are trained to interpret results obtained from DNA profiling. Based on results obtained from complex high-profile cases, IFS has proven to effectively and thoroughly analyse profiles, including partial and mixed profiles. Furthermore, IFS is able to interpret these results in the context of the case with the information provided. Wonder if there is any further and more viable/definitive DNA that could be extracted by this company from any items that the FBI has, such as the parachute supposedly left, the tie, etc. Just curious.... Since many are skeptical of the DNA results that the FBI has in relation to DB items, I'd be willing to contribute to a fund to have these people go over any items left or touched by DB if the FBI was willing to let them have a go at it. Any thoughts by the "dorkzone" experts? or is this totally off the wall? Putting it out there anyway...maybe someone will be interested.

great post!

Well ... I really shouldnt say this but for the good of the group- I will say people are talking behind the scenes ... let's say 'energised' by Blevin's act or tactic or whatever it is here ... perhaps designed to piss people off so as to get someone to reveal priveleged information? ... aint gonna happen and in a way that is sad ... but, people are talking privately (about a host of things) ... and I have it on pretty good authority the FBI says Kenny is a no-go and that is "conclusive", was the word used. I think I trust the source. That's good enough for me. I am also told Porteus is well aware of this. So it may very well be Mr. Blevins is out at the end of the dive board all on his own. Or he already knows all of this and is just playing for time ... Height of board above the dunk tank as yet undetermined and Blevins may not even care... I tend to think that is exactly the case. I hope admission to this soap opera is going to a good cause! Salvation Army or something! But, the FBI is not idle and to me that is the best news I could hear. I dont think my sources will mind my having said this right now ... Back to regular scheduled programming...

Delightful

Thanks for the refresher - good report as usual. I hope you get back on your feet. See if UPI has an opening? Look for referrals ... something will turn up. Im sorry I got Peterson and Burnworth mixed up. Been that kind of week. You have Petey's photo. Do you think it matches and how or how-not?

You can stop misquoting me anytime you wish. As far as the Bremerton Sun article, it is not proof of anything except the FBI got it into their heads somehow, at least for a while, that Cooper might have been bald. How they came to that idea, I don't know, and I don't claim to know. It doesn't take a Brainiac to figure out both the local boys and the Feds were following thousands of leads in the attempt to discover the ID of the hijacker. And each month that went by without an arrest, the more pressure was brought to bear. If you don't know that much about the case history, you should NOT be running the recognized website. Knock yourself out, Pudknocker.

later tonight - Im on the run.

esp is working overtime ... here is the photo in question.There were four of em! Note the palm trees in the background - but Seattle is warm and wet!

I never heard anyone suggest Cooper was bald. Commonly referred to as a toilet paper article - space filler - reporter didnt get the sign in name correct either. It was not like the whole FBi was running around looking for bald men, or deaf and dumb and blind ones with one leg either ... does this really have to be said? Have IQs here dropped 30 points? Igpay Uyay atinlay aysay Isay Uyay ooznay?

I wouldn't know how to handle it if you forgot to lay a daily insult on me. ITS A JOKE HONEY! sheesh. You are confusing me with somebody important! You probably think this song is about you ...