Robert99

He must have known my grandmother. She was also involved in the development of the Boeing 727. She gave birth to Earl, who gave birth to Peter, Paul, & Mary, who were involved in the development of the 727. Hell everybody was involved in the development of the 727. And Mary Travis looks like Cooper! Doncha think? I think I do see a resemblence. Perhaps 377 and Blevins with their facial recognization software can come up with a conclusive match.

Well, Robert99, I only have ONLY this to say about the flap settings. The family attended the Boeing 727 cermony. Jo, Your post does NOT say anything about the flap settings. Also, you do not seem to understand that security at aircraft manufacturer's is very tight. No manufacturer will tolerate an employee trying to remove manuals, drawings, etc., from the company premises. People get fired on the spot for that and, if it is a classified military project, the FBI is going to be leading the investigation and prosecution. The family attending the 727 ceremony doesn't mean anything. I attended the roll-out of the C-141 a long, long time ago but I didn't have a single thing to do with that aircraft. I just happened to be on the premises on another project the day it was rolled out. My main memory of the C-141 roll-out is that when we were getting on our flying machine to head home, Senator Barry Goldwater and his T-39 were given runway priority and were the first to take-off. Of course, he had to taxi right by us lesser mortals to get to the runway but we managed to sit tight for a few more minutes. Robert99

The December 10th issue of Aviation Week has several articles on flying the Boeing 787. An article by Guy Norris contains the following quote, on page 54, relative to flap settings: "Although originally indicative of actual flap angles, the detent positions on more recent generation Boeing aircraft are simply representative of pre-set positions for takeoff and landing." I do NOT have a problem with that quote or naming flap positions like that. But I do wonder how the early Boeing 727 flap positions were identified. Did the 727s have a small number of detent positions (regardless of what they were called) or did the crew have to watch a flap indicator to lower the flaps to a desired setting? Or to put it another way, when Cooper specified 20 degrees for the flap setting, and the flight crew didn't comment one way or the other about it, was he refering to an actual 20 degrees of flap deflection or to a specific detent position? Would a modified 727 that was being used "off label", say in Southeast Asia, have its flap settings given in actual degrees or in a detent system? Unmodified 727s being used in airline service would probably have a detent system. Does anyone have 727 flight manuals for the pre-100 series of 727s? It may be possible to determine where Cooper's 727 information originated. Robert99

Jo, As I am sure you noticed when you visited the Clarence Anglin page on Wikipedia, he had "Zona" tattooed on his left wrist and "Nita" tattooed on his upper right arm. Maybe Georger can help you determine how Anglin was related to each of those women. But just remember that Anglin had been in jail for several years before he disappeared from Alcatraz. Robert99

Talk to Tom Kaye. It really takes some gall for Jo Weber to claim that Tom Kaye's findings "were all influenced by a lot of evidence that has since been proven NOT VALID". Jo, Can you name a single finding that the above statement applies to? And while you are at it, can you name a single piece of anything, "evidence" or otherwise, that supports your allegations that Duane Weber was Cooper? Robert99

Blevins, How do you personally determine if someone isn't "deliberately making stuff up to further a means to an end"? Would you care to offer some names of the people who are responsible for all the BS that is already on the Cooper case? Don't be modest. Robert99 You mean like LSD boy?? You mean that a snort of LSD or smoking a joint opens the door to "true wisdom"? I must confess again that I have apparently led a very sheltered life. I have never even seen any illegal drugs much less use any of them. Robert99

Amazon, You have probably done this already, but if not, get an appointment with a good eye doctor for a complete evaluation. As a teenager and for two or three decades after that, I had 20/20 or better distance vision. Thanks to some skilled eye surgeons and lasers, I still have essentially 20/20 distance vision. But I also need some strong glasses for reading. And I have survived a lot longer than you have. Robert99

Blevins, How do you personally determine if someone isn't "deliberately making stuff up to further a means to an end"? Would you care to offer some names of the people who are responsible for all the BS that is already on the Cooper case? Don't be modest. Robert99

Go to Wikipedia and search "Frank Morris (Prisoner)". The escape was on June 11, 1962 and an FBI report is quoted as saying that "on July 17, 1962 a Norwegian ship spotted a body floating in the bay 20 miles northwest of the Golden Gate Bridge. Although they did not retrieve the body and did not report the sighting until October, they told the police the body was dressed in clothes that prisoners on Alcatraz used, and that the body resembled Frank Morris." See the above article for more details about subsequent events. Also, the above quote is apparently not the one I originally saw with the same general information. Robert99

I didn't say it would. That's why I was asking. She mentioned something about weight and asked for a volunteer from the first four rows to take a seat in the back. That's why the joke from folks in the back about their diets working. From there it got me thinking about weight in the simulation and how Mr Shutter would know how much to account for luggage. I thought it was interesting enough to post. Obviously not...but since that is hardly a prerequisite for posting on this forum, I have no excuses other than......i just felt like posting it. Robert99 gave me a reasonable answer, I appreciate it, and now i can sleep at night.

Even if no specific reason was given in the stated instance, the crew asked for a single individual to move to the rear of the aircraft. Since there was no objection, it apparently was single class seating on the specific aircraft. The gross weight of the aircraft remained the same before and after the passenger moved aft. So other things being equal, the only logical reason for the move aft was related to the aircraft CG. If there was another reason, it probably would have been taken care of as the passengers were loading and not after they were already seated. Robert99

In my opinion you are exactly right. There has to be more information in the FBI files and I doubt very much if they will ever release it if there is no solution to this hijacking. If Cooper's remains were found tomorrow, the FBI would probably have everything fleshed out and in a neat bundle secured with red, white, and blue ribbons within a few hours. Robert99 all of these stories are much like a script, they follow the evidence trail and present a story, LE has to keep something important back in order to flush out the story teller. the 3 guys who escaped from Alcatraz, Morris and anglin brother has been unsolved for 50 years, but, nobody has come forward with a wild story of how they made it, simple reason, there names are known!!! Reportedly, the body of one of the Anglin brothers was sighted on the day they disappeared just outside the Golden Gate Bridge by a ship that was headed to the Far East. The ship couldn't stop but radioed the Coast Guard the position information. However, the Coast Guard did not have a means to go out and pick up the body at that specific time. So the body was never recovered and no evidence of the other two escapees fates was ever found. Robert99 _________________________________________________ If nobody picked up the body (the ship nor the Coast Guard), then how would they know it was one of the Anglin brothers? No body means no evidence, no confirmation of who was floating in the water. So, it's all just speculation. C'mon! MeyerLouie _________________________________________________ Apparently the ship passed close enough to the body for the crew to get a good look at it and the clothes on it. One of the Anglin brothers was specifically named but I don't remember which one. That debris from rafts was found in the surf on Angel Island was publicized a long time ago. Robert99

Another question would be why Pierce and Kitsap Counties? Pierce County is just south of Seattle and Kitsap is the Bremerton area across Puget Sound to the west from Seattle. Interestingly, MeyerLouie posted recently that he picked up Bruce Smith in Eatonville, which is in Pierce County, on his way down to the festivies in Ariel in November. Robert99 And I'm bald, or at least seriously thinning! Am I a suspect? If so, I trump Jo's claims to intimacy with the skyjacker, no? Bruce, Why don't you just confess and get it over with? If you did confess, Jo would sue you for impersonating Duane Weber and who knows what Blevins would do. The rest of the people on this thread wouldn't have anything further to live for so they would just drink themselves cross-eyed. Robert99

Another question would be why Pierce and Kitsap Counties? Pierce County is just south of Seattle and Kitsap is the Bremerton area across Puget Sound to the west from Seattle. Interestingly, MeyerLouie posted recently that he picked up Bruce Smith in Eatonville, which is in Pierce County, on his way down to the festivies in Ariel in November. Robert99

In my opinion you are exactly right. There has to be more information in the FBI files and I doubt very much if they will ever release it if there is no solution to this hijacking. If Cooper's remains were found tomorrow, the FBI would probably have everything fleshed out and in a neat bundle secured with red, white, and blue ribbons within a few hours. Robert99 all of these stories are much like a script, they follow the evidence trail and present a story, LE has to keep something important back in order to flush out the story teller. the 3 guys who escaped from Alcatraz, Morris and anglin brother has been unsolved for 50 years, but, nobody has come forward with a wild story of how they made it, simple reason, there names are known!!! Reportedly, the body of one of the Anglin brothers was sighted on the day they disappeared just outside the Golden Gate Bridge by a ship that was headed to the Far East. The ship couldn't stop but radioed the Coast Guard the position information. However, the Coast Guard did not have a means to go out and pick up the body at that specific time. So the body was never recovered and no evidence of the other two escapees fates was ever found. Robert99

In my opinion you are exactly right. There has to be more information in the FBI files and I doubt very much if they will ever release it if there is no solution to this hijacking. If Cooper's remains were found tomorrow, the FBI would probably have everything fleshed out and in a neat bundle secured with red, white, and blue ribbons within a few hours. Robert99

Jo, By your own admission you had never heard of D.B. Cooper until a few days before Duane Weber died. And you didn't know who Cooper was until a year or so after Duane's death. As far as knowing anything about Cooper, living with Duane 17 years or so didn't provide you with any meaningful information. And you have spent another 17 years or so trying to prove that Duane was Cooper without coming up with a SINGLE piece of evidence. So calm down. At least Blevins has put his candidate in a parachute, in the Pacific Northwest at the general time of the hijacking, and with airline experience. But even that does NOT mean that KC is Cooper. The only thing you have come up with on Duane is that he was an unsuccessful criminal with more than 27 arrests, that the FBI knows about, and spent a lot of time in more prisons than I can remember. Duane also carried a concealed weapon until late in his life, obtained a Florida driver's license in another name through fraud, and was generally a bad ass. Leaving a $20 bill on the dresser after seducing and robbing women can hardly be considered a redeeming quality. Robert99

Jo, I notice that you only list your "recent" posts as not putting you in the Blevins category. Do your earlier rantings move you into that category? If Blevins objected to that, I think he would be correct. Robert99 I have a category now. Well, that's something anyway. I always thought I was in THIS category. Relax. You are still several "categories" above the Bob Knoss and Jo Weber category. Robert99

Jo, I notice that you only list your "recent" posts as not putting you in the Blevins category. Do your earlier rantings move you into that category? If Blevins objected to that, I think he would be correct. Robert99

Smokin, you mentioned it was a "connector" flight which implies a small aircraft, maybe 50 passengers or less. The point of having a passenger move from the front of the aircraft to the rear was to move the center-of-gravity rearwards by, in this case, probably no more than a small fraction of an inch. The center-of-gravity has to be within a specified range for the aircraft to be legal to fly. While it is better to have the CG to far forward rather than to far aft of the specified range, for legal operations it must be within the range. With the CG to far aft of the legal limit, the aircraft becomes "squirrelly" and hard to hand fly. If the CG is moved a bit further aft and is behind the aerodynamic neutral point, the control problems are greatly increased as the aircraft will not be statically stable. In the problem as quoted, the CG was apparently a bit further forward than the crew wanted it to be. This situation improves the static stability but makes the aircraft more difficult to maneouver. And the movement of a single passenger as quoted is not going to cause any great movement in the CG. As far as the aircraft being able to get off the ground with a load of people and cargo, just believe your eyes. Robert99

And I am waiting for a reply from you about your claims that "someone", obviously meaning me, had altered one of your posts. In fact, you altered your own post and then edited it. Since you usually claim ignorance in these matters, a summary of this is in post 38655. What is your reply? Robert99

In my opinion, the first floor level windows in the large Assembly Hall picture do in fact match the first floor level window behind the man in Jo's original picture. By this thread's standards, that is absolute proof. Jo, For the record, I have spent plenty of time on multiple visits to Salt Lake City at the Family History Library, which is just across the street on the west side from the Assembly Hall. And also at the former Hotel Utah (now the Joseph Smith Building) just across the street on the east side from the Temple itself. Robert99

OF COURSE A HORSE is A HORSE of Course! The picture was taken on a hill and I have the complete photo. I had to enlarge and crop it so the face could be seen and the "uniform" for lack of knowledge of what-ever he was wearing. I didn't think the Briefcase or music case was important - but obviously someone else does. I looks more like a music case or a pilots case instead of a regular brief case. Why I thought pilot or music director. Jo, The area in the immediate vicinity of Temple Square is quite flat. In addition, the scenery behind the man does NOT resemble any entrance to Temple Square that I have ever seen. And that building does not match the types that are on Temple Square. The briefcase is exactly that, a medium thickness attache case. There is no indication of what it might contain but it is definitely NOT a pilot's case. The "uniform" that the man is wearing reminds me of Captain Kangroo's double knits, but of a much darker color. And I definitely doubt that you would find such clothes at Temple Square. I see absolutely nothing in that photograph that indicates any connection with Salt Lake City or even Utah. Robert99

Is the "'deal' from Boeing" referring to info on operating a 727 as a jumpship? Interesting that GC speculates that DBC has that info too. 377 I think they were discussing the possibility of getting Tina back in the cockpit and then Tina and the entire flight crew would use the cockpit "escape rope" to vacate the aircraft through a cockpit window. If they could have done that, Cooper would have been the only one on the aircraft and the matter would have been resolved in whatever manner he chose. Surrender or hot lead. Robert99

Also, please remember that the Chief Psychologist for the FAA in Washington, DC had passed the word to the flight crew that Cooper would probably take a hostage with him and blow up the airliner when he jumped. Further, as discussed on this thread just a few days ago, Tina had to calm Cooper down after the refueling delays and at one point she thought he was going to accidentally set off the bomb. And Tina did see the bomb. Robert99