Robert99

Actually, I think he looked about 1960 with that tie. If I remember correctly, the 1-inch wide ties were in their full glory by 1961. And remember that this was a 99 cent tie that he probably bought at his local drug store. It was definitely not high fashion by any standards. So maybe Cooper didn't normally wear a tie or didn't want to ruin a good one during the hijacking. Maybe he just "dressed for the party". Robert99

Jo writes: THE SOUND WAS DIFFERENT AND WHY IT GOT MY ATTENTION. I know it happened and that is all. Could this be a previously unrecognized case of "remote hearing"? Robert99

Jo, In the 60s and 70s boats didn't carry any radios that could communicate with aircraft on the VHF AM band that airplanes use to talk to ATC and to each other. USCG rescue aircraft and some USAF rescue aircraft carried radios that could operate on marine HF AM (later SSB) and on VHF FM marine bands. Some USCG aircraft even carried radios that could communicate with ships on low frequencies (500 KHz and below) using CW Morse Code. So ordinary boat to ordinary plane radio communication wasn't possible. Some seiners had aviation band radios to talk with fish spotter planes and helos, but this was a special case and not common. I assisted a few times with sea rescues by handling comms with en route rescue aircraft on HF and relaying to the boat in distress that didn't have this radio gear. Frequencies I recall using were 2182 KHz, 11179 KHz, and 8291 KHz. There is no way you could have known for sure that what you heard on Duane's CB came from a plane just from the subject matter content. I've heard CBers pull all sorts of impersonations and tricks. It might have been some joker pretending he was a pilot. Trust me Jo, there was no CB radio that could also communicate on the VHF aircraft band, not then, not now. No "CB man" could make a modification that would give a CB this capability. 377 Jo, Finally, let me point out that if Amelia Earhart had bothered to personally attend the Navy/Coast Guard coordination meeting on her around the world flight, instead of sending her husband who didn't have any radio or aircraft operational experience, then she probably wouldn't be wherever it is that she is located today. Amelia didn't know how to do a DF steer procedure, asked the Coast Guard at Howland Island to transmit on a frequency which she should have known they didn't have, didn't pass any particularly useful information in her transmissions that would pinpoint her location, etc.. All of this that requires teaching could have been taught to her in less than 15 minutes. A few minutes of planning ahead and Amelia would probably have made it to Howland and probably was reasonably close when she ran out of gas. But reasonably close is not good enough in this regard. Robert99

I do remember something some one said to me about Duane's system. A man who had worked on his CB - What you said above is why I remembered what the man said. The man told me he did NOT understand WHY Duane had the system he had - but DUMB OLD ME didn't know what Duane had was any different than any other CB - to me a CB was a CB. What kind of system could Duane have had - and WHY did he carry an extra car size battery in the trunk? He told me this and something you guys just ignore - If we were stranded in a snow storm that we would be able to communicate with the planes... What kind of system would he have needed to do this? Jo, 377 and Matt, plus others, have explained that no CB radio is going to be of any use in contacting airplanes. What kind of radio system did Duane have? Did he have it connected to the car battery in the trunk? If it was, it is very unlikely that it was a CB radio. Or at least it wouldn't be after that battery fried its components. To repeat 377s previous statement, I have never heard of a CB radio being installed in an airplane and it would be very expensive to do so. When they became available after WW2, smoke jumpers may have been equipped with military surplus walkie talkie type equipment. But I would think other types of radios would be more suitable for that function. But your idea that Duane gave a call to an airplane on an Air Traffic Control frequency is not very likely either. How did he know the frequency they were on? And remember that general aviation and commerical aircraft do NOT normally moniter 121.5 on the VHF band and probably doesn't have 243.0, which is a military frequency, on the UHF band. If you were stranded in a snow storm, in the time frame we are considering, your best bet for communications would be a CB radio, if you are really out in the brush, or a car telephone if you are closer to civilization. I understand that there is an emergency channel on CB radios that is usually monitered by the local State Highway Patrol. This would be your best bet for assistance. Of course, the ideal solution is not to get yourself stranded in a snow storm. Weather forecasts have been widely available for quite a few decades. Robert99

Thats right, an EXTRA class ham ticket. It govt certifies me as EXTRA, so it's no wonder that Blevins noticed I was extra nice. Snow has one too, and we all know how nice he is. Sailshaw too, I think. Dunno what license class Geoger has or Sluggo either. Pilots licenses dont have adjectives like EXTRA in front of them. Pilots are way too cool for that ego stroking nonsense. 377 Well put! Pilots are already so full of themselves that no further ego massaging is needed. Robert99

And regardless of what you believe in the physic sense, the odds of winning are still exactly the same. A few days ago, Jo Weber wrote about her 2010 trip to the northwest and her refusal to allow Sluggo to accompany her. She wrote that Sluggo had an aura of "negativity" about him in the sense that he was not a True Believer that Duane was Cooper. So Sluggo stayed home. Perhaps Jo is ahead of her time with physic phenomena, as just explained by Bruce, but she should start relying more on solid science if she wants to make any progress, one way or the other, in determining if Duane was Cooper. But all advice to Jo is a waste of time since she already "knows" that Duane was Cooper. Robert99

11,24,71 ? 3, 7, 7?

The recent mention of "remote viewing" on this thread has some interesting possibilities. This doesn't have a direct connection with D.B. Cooper, but anyone on the thread willing to admit that they are a "remote viewing" believer might find this proposal of interest. For more on the subject, see the "Remote Viewing" article on Wikipedia. Please pay particular attention to the "Recent Research" paragraph near the end of the article. I am of the opinion that several people on the thread might be interested in participating in the research aspects of remote viewing. At least some of the posters here appear to have exceptional capabilities that would interest such researchers. However, I would suggest that Bob Knoss be prohibited from participating in the tests. While he would probably have strong results supporting remote viewing, those results should be considered as "outliers" which probably will not be repeatable on other humans. Therefore, Bob Knoss should be studied individually as an exception to all the rules, even as related to remote viewing. Possible candidates for test subjects who post regularly on this thread include Jo Weber, RobertMBlevins, Sailshaw, and possibly others. I suggest that they thoroughly read the Wikipedia article mentioned above, and get in touch with the researchers if interested. This could be a rare opportunity for the Cooper thread to help advance science. Robert99

The pilot chutes for the NB6, and presumably the NB8, have another unusual feature that makes them easy to identify. At the top of the NB6 pilot chute is a hole through which a stud mounted on the bottom of the pilot chute spring assembly is inserted during the packing process. This stud in turn fits into the container flaps through holes and the third rip cord pin from the top is inserted through the stud. This keeps the pilot chute compressed. It also means that the rip cord must be pulled for the parachute to function. Otherwise, the canopy remains attached to the harness by means of the risers and to the container by means of the pilot chute. The parachute flares that I have seen in artillery rounds were all white and used for illumination purposes. I might add that this was a long time ago. Robert99

Jo, If you go EAST from Virginia Beach, VA, you are going to be in the Atlantic Ocean really fast. The Ocean is the ONLY thing east of Virgina Beach until you get to Europe or maybe the Azores. Robert99 NOT from but to VA Bch . . . Perhaps you were just needling me because I made a mistake, but I corrected it. I have to keep ALL of this crap and the memories in my head. I make mistakes and it was TO and not from. Jo, No problem. You corrected your posts above and you ALSO corrected my quotation of that remark at the top of this post. You corrected the post real fast. And you were just complaining about how bad your health is today. Robert99

Jo, If you go EAST from Virginia Beach, VA, you are going to be in the Atlantic Ocean really fast. The Ocean is the ONLY thing east of Virgina Beach until you get to Europe or maybe the Azores. Robert99

I don't know about the titanium. The Yakima Firing Center is now known as the Yakima Training Center and is used for live firing by units from Fort Lewis (which is adjacent to McChord AFB just south of Seattle). Wikipedia has a one page article on the Yakima Training Center. Robert99

377 is undoubtedly right about this being a flare chute. And an excellent place for this chute to start its journey to the Tena Bar area is the Yakima Firing Center east of Yakima, WA. The Yakima Firing Center is bounded on the west by the Yakima River, which later joins the Columbia River, and on the east by the Columbia River itself. These artillery flares included the flare itself and a small parachute, with both having to fit inside a 105mm howitzer shell along with the "nose cone" and protective means to separate them from the powder bags. That chute may have started its journey downstream even before the Cooper hijacking. Robert99

Jo, Start thinking INSIDE the box again. First, the dummy chute was sewn shut. It would not open when the dummy rip cord was pulled since the rip cord pins were not connected to it. Second, the only logical place to put a tracking device would be in the main chute which was expected to be used which would activate the tracking device. The reserve chute would have been used only as a last resort even if it was operational. Third, I doubt if the dummy chute could have held more than about one-third of the money in the first place. The reserve chute containers are quite small. Robert99

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info. McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft. 377 __________________________________________________ That answers that question -- two more questions for you 377: could DBC have brought on board 305, either in the briefcase or in the paperbag, a bailout type beacon (the flares maybe)? If so, could a land vehicle be equipped and capable of getting a bearing on that bailout beacon frequency? Thanks. MeyerLouie MeyerLouie, Let me see if I can help answer your questions. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, emergency locator transmitter beacons (ELTs) were just being introduced into small general aviation aircraft. I don't remember the year that they were mandated by the FAA, but some of the early ELTs were very small and could be, and were, mounted on the side of the baggage compartment of even the smallest aircraft (such as Cessna 150s). You could almost carry these things in your shirt pocket based on their size. They had to be mounted in a direction such that longitudinal impact forces would force a weight forward to turn on the transmitter switch during accidents. And the pilot was responsible for seeing that the ELTs were not activated as a part of his shut down check list at the end of a flight. These ELTs operated on 121.5 and 243.0 on the VHF and UHF bands, respectively, when activated. To locate aircraft after an accident, the search aircraft would ideally have a VHF/UHF "direction finder" capability. Military search aircraft had such a capability. Perhaps 377 knows if such a piece of equipment was available to general aviation and ships in that time frame. But Cooper could easily have had one of these ELTs in his paper bag or coat pocket. However, anyone who wanted to locate him would need the "direction finder" end of the system. Robert99 My experience with quite a bit of usage of PRC 34 and PRC 90 survival radios.. and the small transmitters in parachutes that are set to go off on deployment or set off inadvertently ( by someone in life support or elsewhere near the flightline) is a whole lot of scrambling by any and everyone who monitors those frequencies in the area. If anyone is suggesting those were used..please... put that thought to rest because. EVERY military reciever from Portland to Seattle ( and that is a WHOLE lot) would have been going off on active duty and guard and reservebases who monitor it for military aircraft emergencies. Amazon, 377, Farflung, and others: Let me add a paragraph or two here that should have been added to my original post. I am NOT recommending that ELTs or beacons of any kind that operate on 121.5 and 243.0 would have been used in the hijacking. There are several very good reasons for this: 1. As Amazon points out, just about ever military aircraft radio communication set in existence automatically monitors those emergency frequencies and so do most air traffic control facilities. This probably makes them the most monitored frequencies on the planet. At the present time, they are also monitered by satellites. 2. And as Farflung and Amazon both point out, about 97 percent (I thought it was closer to 100 percent) of the alarms from ELTs and beacons during their initial introduction were in fact false. 3. The C-130 following the hijacked airliner was described as a "Search and Rescue" aircraft. Although I haven't seen it in writing anywhere, this probably means that it had direction finding capabilities for these emergency frequencies. 4. There is no record of anyone's transmitter going off on these emergency frequencies during the hijacking and flight to Reno. 5. Cooper rejected military parachutes from the USAF at McChord AFB. It was common knowledge at that time that the USAF pilots and crewmen in Southeast Asia were using parachutes with radio beacons and that they could be tracked by search and rescue aircraft. Cooper may have known this, guessed that the McChord chutes would be so equipped, and he would probably would have been right (thanks to the efforts of the FBI). 6. The poster that I was originally responding to essentially asked if it was possible to track a transmitter with a piece of equipment that had a direction finding capability. As 377 has pointed out, the short answer is "Yes" but it would be a dumb thing to do in the Cooper hijacking. 7. The Hale Boggs disappearance was only one factor in introducing ELTs into general aviation usage. In fact, Don Jonz, Bogg's pilot, had an ELT. Searchers found it safe and secure on his desk back at the airport of departure. I suppose this helped the powers that be realize that it would be a better idea to put the ELTs in the aircraft. Sometimes science progresses rather slowly. Robert99

If Galen Cook and Richard Tosaw carefully noted the locations where the money and shards were found and the elevations above sea level (or some other vertical reference), then they may have made some significant progress on determining "where" the bills came from. For instance, if the money and shards were found at different heights on the shore or at different depths in the sand, then that would suggest that they arrived at different times. And those different times imply repeatabilty. In view of all the other factors in play, repeatability would imply in turn that the money came from the same source and that the source was relatively fixed and very near Tena Bar. Robert99

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info. McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft. 377 __________________________________________________ That answers that question -- two more questions for you 377: could DBC have brought on board 305, either in the briefcase or in the paperbag, a bailout type beacon (the flares maybe)? If so, could a land vehicle be equipped and capable of getting a bearing on that bailout beacon frequency? Thanks. MeyerLouie MeyerLouie, Let me see if I can help answer your questions. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, emergency locator transmitter beacons (ELTs) were just being introduced into small general aviation aircraft. I don't remember the year that they were mandated by the FAA, but some of the early ELTs were very small and could be, and were, mounted on the side of the baggage compartment of even the smallest aircraft (such as Cessna 150s). You could almost carry these things in your shirt pocket based on their size. They had to be mounted in a direction such that longitudinal impact forces would force a weight forward to turn on the transmitter switch during accidents. And the pilot was responsible for seeing that the ELTs were not activated as a part of his shut down check list at the end of a flight. These ELTs operated on 121.5 and 243.0 on the VHF and UHF bands, respectively, when activated. To locate aircraft after an accident, the search aircraft would ideally have a VHF/UHF "direction finder" capability. Military search aircraft had such a capability. Perhaps 377 knows if such a piece of equipment was available to general aviation and ships in that time frame. But Cooper could easily have had one of these ELTs in his paper bag or coat pocket. However, anyone who wanted to locate him would need the "direction finder" end of the system. Robert99

Take a look at the above listed new thread that was posted late today on this forum. While the parachute that Cooper presumably used is similiar to this one, Cooper's chute was unmodified and did not have (so far as is known) the vents in the rear of the canopy. Also, Cooper's chute is reported not to have had the "separable links" connecting the risers to the shroud lines. Instead, his chute is reported to have the shroud lines sewn to the risers. Be sure to take a look at the pictures as well as read the post. Robert99

Blevins, Despite your gracious words, I suspect that you don't believe that Georger has done any research or interviews on the Cooper matter. Have you (Blevins) done any Cooper research that involved the physical sciences? Have you actually talked to the air traffic controllers involved in the hijacked flight? And whatever happened to the interview that you were going to do with Rataczak? Robert99

Jo, Your story may indeed be a heart warming tale of a modern family. But Duane smoking pot with his step-daughter in your presence is not what I would call teaching her responsibilities, at least as that word is normally used. Correct me if I am wrong, but smoking pot used to be considered a crime even in Virginia. So you at least had some idea of where Duane was coming from before the FBI told you about his 27+ arrests and 500+ page FBI file. Finally, I guess that I really have led a sheltered life! Robert99

Jo, You CANNOT prove a "negative"! Since Duane got into the Army by fraud, which was soon discovered, and then booted out, there is a very real possibility that legally speaking, Duane was never in the Army. Robert99 Jo writes: I had the letter he wrote to his mother and what the VA provided me - He was definitely in the ARMY - I have even given his serial number in the past. Only AFTER I brought up the Army thing and my proof in 2000 did they (the FBI) ADMIT Weber was indeed in the Army - in fact it was then that I was able to obtain the ending date - just a few wks. There are also personal accountings of Duane's history in the army in the Family history - one is a humerous story and since the individuals are NOT liars their records stand. One of the guys was a prior in-law of Duane's. That is another story! Not giving away all of my stuff and if you had such a great memory you would know I have told the story before and wrote about it. R99 replies: As Matt and I have pointed out earlier, if fraud is involved then there is a legal question about Duane's status in the Army. Even if he was issued an Army serial number and an Army uniform, both were obtained as a result of his fraud. And in booting Duane out, the Army apparently decided that he was never legally in the Army. If Duane just wanted to wear an Army uniform, there were probably plenty of Army/Navy stores around that would be happy to sell him the uniform, showing whatever rank he desired, and probably ever medal issued by the military (including the MOH) if that would help him pick up girls at the local bars. Jo writes: Do you ever watch Criminal Minds and CSI Those writers must loft here and be part of the jumping world - words and things this thread talks about jump right off the screen. I forget them as soon as the program is over. R99 writes: I don't watch those programs. But I do have a question. If you forget them (the words) as soon as the program is over, how do you remember them now as coming from this thread? Jo writes: I have noticed this for about 3 yrs now. Probably the same writers who did a Cooper segment - Scott and Scott. The story lines each season is written by a panel of writers....but those two just stick out....I am probably the only one who ever notices. Like the Weber Story - it get old. But, there is a lot happening no one knows about - so I guess I just need to shut up. R99 replies: Just remember you, not me, wrote the last sentence above. And I have not twisted your words in this post. Robert99

Jo, You CANNOT prove a "negative"! Since Duane got into the Army by fraud, which was soon discovered, and then booted out, there is a very real possibility that legally speaking, Duane was never in the Army. Robert99

Jo, you owe Sluggo an apology! Sluggo putting out negative vibrations? Who do you think you are kidding? However, I fully understand that, in your case, truth is a negative vibration. Robert99

Jo, You WILL deny it, you ALWAYS do, but just a few days ago you were making posts that you told the FBI in the late 1990s how the money got there. Remember your stories about Duane throwing a paper bag, small enough to put in the pocket of his wind breaker, into the Columbia upstream of Tena Bar in 1979? Then just a few months later the money was found. You subsequently told the FBI that is how the money got to Tena Bar. When it is convenient, you claim that the money was in that paper bag. Again when it is convenient, you claim that you don't know what was in the paper bag. You have got as much egg on your face as Marla, Blevins, Sailshaw, and anyone else on this thread who is pushing a specific Cooper candidate. Robert99

While I agree with Mr. Science's conclusion that the chance of Cooper landing in the River is VERY small, the explanation in the penultimate paragraph of his original post is distressing. I have consulted "Probability for Dummies", by Dr. Deborah Rumsey, which is my go-to book on the subject, and she definies (p. 9) probability as "the long-term chance that a certain outcome will occur from some random process". Precisely what is "random" in Mr. Science's original statement of the problem? The flight path and ground speeds are given and the time interval is arbitrarily specified. To my unenlightened mind, the only parameter that is truly random is the time of Cooper's jump. It is "random" because Mr. Science does not have control over it. Nevertheless, Mr. Science specifies a time or time period for the jump. Please advise me as to how "probability" can be applied to the problem as originally formulated. Robert99