stratostar

FYI- that was all a joke, yet the truth for many male instructors as how to get their attention. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

What is funny is how many of you late bloomers want to nitpick shit and start a fight with the one of the men who started it all. He comes on here and explains his thinking and idea from back in the day and why they choose to call the person on the front a student and not a pax or rider, and it's not good enough of an answer for you. Instead of acting like an ass to the man, you should be thankful he took the time to log in here and post and if you have done a tdm or had a friend or family member make a tdm jump, again you should thanking Mr. Booth & Ted Strong for their taking of the risk to test and build the systems and not starting a pissing contest over choosing to call someone a student and not a pax. The men had every good reason for using that word, so move along already! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

1. low cut top 2. beer 3. pizza 4. additional low cut tops (friends) or daisy dukes 5. more beer 6. See 1, 2 & 3 you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I believe that is a big deal in Mo. right now too, or at least it was not all that long ago, not sure what came of that. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

They all are students no matter the progression used, until they get an A license here in the states. That even means, if they make one, wait 5 yrs. and do jump two and wait 5 more years, they are a student skydiver who goes un-current, yes they may even sit in the local bar and talk shit to you about how they are a skydiving student even though it's been 4.5 years from the last jump, they are not a dropout until they fail to return at what ever time to continue their training, in their mind, however in real world dz's we all know they dropped out of the program, I would call them a former student. I personally might forget about this said student during the 5 yrs they are absent, but once they return to the dz they are still a student until an A license. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

That is not true, a good deal of training should be taking place under canopy and if you bounce or hook in and die, you failed your course. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

yep, what he said.... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I don't know about you, but I always spot for my low pulls. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well if you think Bill & Ted invented TDM's to make a carnival ride, your wrong, I won't put words into their mouths, Ted (rip) well you'll have to only read his words, Bill on the other hand, well he can speak for himself and might chime in here and tell you in his own words why he invented his system and how he for saw it being used.... Pretty sure he'll say for teaching skydiving, kind of like taking a CFI on a first flight in an airplane, there for that makes the person in front a "student" and IMHO that is what both Ted & Bill for saw in the future for it use, back in the day. I guess we'll if Bill Booth will post here and answer you personally. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Your missing the history of how and why TDM became what it is today. Back when it was invented, the idea was a way to train student skydivers. When it was first under the experimental program, those jumps were "training" jumps and not thrill rides like they are today, at most places. http://www.strongparachutes.com/pages/tandem_main.php you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I hear you, I never meant to imply it was voted on already, only that other medicals were up for a waver on top those we know were already allowed. Thanks for taking up the topic and bringing it to the table. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Correct & correct, most all DOT medical card carriers have gone through the "check out" process, there for unless you fail one, your correct that you need not piss in order to get a new card in two years. We are on the same page. My points being made here are in regards to BOD members, who to my understanding didn't think the DOT medicals should be allowed for a number of reasons.... I think other wise and IMHO have provided a great deal of reasons as to why it's just as good if not better then the class 3, as long as we're go to go around handing out wavers to a select group of the membership, like military and now NASA peeps. How many fucking people they got over @ NASA anyway that jump? How many DOT medical card holders are there in USPA that not only jump, but do TDM's? Answer: A hell of a lot more then over at NASA~ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

How many trucking jobs have you had? Because I've done a great deal of trucking and busing for over 25 yrs. And with each and every job change (new company) you get a UA as part of the new hire testing, then once your hired you are in the wiz quiz program where you can be selected at random to take one or if you have an accident you can get one, if the accident kills people, they (cops) take your ass to the hospital and test you ASAP. So the point was, anyone who is currently holding a CDL and DOT medical card for commercial use, has been pissed tested as part of getting the medical card issued to them, then once they are "working" can be at anytime piss tested. That is a major step above the FAA class 3, so any BS out of USPA or MRG's about how that medical is not equivalent, is BS. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

http://www.tauntongazette.com/news/x715342091/DIVING-IN-Couple-close-to-opening-skydiving-school-in-Taunton-Airport Right on Tom Congrats on this major step forward. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I get all that, always have... but it's the same cardiac exam as a DOT medical exam, and that was the point. It's totally the same look here, bend here, cough now, breath deep, piss now, touch your toes 3 times, what color is that...etc, only the paper work is different, slightly. Both do no cardio or stress testing, they just listen. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

You just made my whole point, thanks! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

First, you & I agree, I have already stated the medical requirement is not law under the FAR's and should have been dropped years ago when tdm went legit. All this BS about getting "better" people is all BS window dressing! How ever each and every time I've talked about this to a USPA person, the answer is : It's the MFG's who require it. So I asked about the DOT medicals as equivalent to meet the standards, after reading about all the wavered ones for "select" groups in the membership and all the while knowing the USDOT medical cards are as good or better then the ones getting a pass because someone knew who and how to ask the right way. So this time, when it came up, I asked Rich about it and explained my points about that medical and why it should be "equivalent" and level the playing field for all the members and stop all the wavering BS. Or we need no medical and comply with the FAR's only, or everyone forks over the 90 bucks (cheapest I've found) and gets a class 3, no wavers! Point is, I don't think you'll ever see them drop the medical, so why waste the time asking. However the fact is, there are a few people I know of that for minor stupid reasons were failed on a class 3 and are now not able to do TDM's. There is nothing wrong with them, other then being honest on the paper work and medical history. All any medical requirement by USPA or MFG's to make a TDM jump, needs to say is that who ever is healthy enough to do the job, it needs not be some over priced fancy doctors visit. Did the class 3 medical help or prevent: The TI who had a heart attack and died under canopy with the student left to get down on their own. The TI who hooked in and killed the student and himself. The TI/DZO who got sued and lost for grabbing a chicks chest. The TI who killed the overweight chick in Ohio. The Tandem student and TI who were killed in Ohio from a rigging mistake. The TI who was killed by the camera man, going through the main canopy, leaving a student to land it, alone. The list goes on and on, let's not fool our self's here and think the class 3 is the end all as to who is fit enough to haul TDM's. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

The only part Van got wrong was this: While the logic is correct the info is wrong.... Yes at first glance it would seem DZO's would want this in order to have with out paying for it "drug testing" .... then who is going to pay for it? The TI's??? LOL The only way a DZO would have a person who is holding a valid DOT medical card with a drug test is if, that person is employed by a company (trucker or school bus) who takes part in a "a DOT approved program". Unless your Larry Hill or one of the other "big boys" your not going to be able to afford to run and keep a program going for a skydiving staff, (you can only be in one testing program at a time) it's the cost that to this day, has kept every DZO I've ever heard talk about starting a drug testing program, not one has ever followed through, each and every time they all have ended up doing the home testing kits in the office and not a real chain of custody USDOT approved medical testing program ran by a doctors office and 3rd party testing labs, who are certified USDOT compliant providers. The reason is cost plain and simple and the fact it is too easier to fake a test with the home testing kits if one of the favored staff is the one being looked at. By the USPA & MFG's allowing a DOT medical card for TI's only helps the TI's who already have one due to their real jobs and those who can get one for cheaper then a class 1,2,3 FAA. It in no way helps DZO's be cheap and get "real" drug testing without paying for it. In fact it is possible get a DOT medical without a piss test, uncommon as hell , but legal and possible to do. Those who do get them with out pissing, will not be operating on public roads and remain legal. All that medical dose is say to the DOT, your healthy enough to function in your job without having a health related problem and running over a car or bus load of people and killing them, or driving a D8 Cat over the construction crew because your missing a leg or arm. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

In the US, the data cards are kept with the rigs. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

They had a chance to do that when tandems went legit and they didn't, then they had the chance when 105 was rewritten and they didn't. The FAA makes no requirement under 105, other then stating following MFG & USPA. Kind of like the FAA says we must wear two parachutes, but no where do they say we have to use them, just don't endanger people or property on the ground when going splat. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

If you got DUI's, any in the last ten years, then I would have to say no, you won't be seeking a medical to operate safety sensitive vehicles like a school bus, big truck, crane, train, forklift, earth mover etc. with a DUI record that is less then ten years old. Also DOT medical cards expire in two years for everyone. (hell I know people who mow lawns for a living who had to get a CDL & medical card because of the truck and trailer they drive to haul the mowing shit around) Any employer who is sending a person to under go such an exam would have already vetted the applicant prior for such records, same as any other employer would or should do before entrusting their customers and business relations to the actions of an employee, however this is the skydiving industry we're talking about where having felons run the show is not all that uncommon place and corner cutting is a way of life so we all know the dz rats who can't remain a non drunk, hell most of um still stink like booze on the way to the plane or are still tripping from the X they took last night, but the DZO's do their own little "home drug testing kits" and not a DOT approved testing program anyway, it don't take much in the health dept to pass the class 3 FAA or the DOT medicals. So as it stands, seem reasonable that if a person can pass and hold a valid DOT medical card that is good in all 50 states and Canada under USDOT regulations to safely transport children, goods & services on all major highways, byways, county roads and city streets... I fail to understand how & why that is not approved under USPA when we are granting wavers to military physicals based on their job functions and now NASA as well, in order to take a tandem up. FAA live in the house of the USDOT, they are a branch of the DOT you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

It dose if you are going to be operating a vehicle or other safety sensitivity job that the fail to preform could cause loss to the general public or other workers. Conviction? what do you mean? Someone with crime record or someone who failed a test before? There is no conviction that I know of for someone who failed a piss test, yes they can be in a testing program and remain in one testing dirty or clean and still hold a valid medical card. Does the holder have to be in a test program to keep the physical? *** Not that I'm aware of, dose the tandem I, who failed the piss test for the DZO get to keep their valid FAA class 3 medical card? you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

How about asking if all the wavered or allowed medicals the USPA currently allows by some members... do those medicals meet or beat (equivalent) to the DOT or the FAA medical. The answer is yes to the FAA seeing how it's waved by USPA. So how do those others stack up to the DOT as equivalent? I'm willing to bet they do. As I said, the DOT is the same damn test as the FAA class 3 exam, the only difference is a piss test for sugar levels, they even check for that too. If one medical is good enough for a branch of the DOT, the FAA & class 3, then all other branches of the DOT medicals should be allowed as well if we are now going to start handing out wavers to military people (most the military ones are equal to the DOT ones) and now for NASA. A lot of skydivers hold valid DOT medical cards, along with Class A -B & C drivers licenses for operation of different types of vehicles in the performance of their daily job duties. This includes pilots, who get theirs in compliance with DOT regulations, the same as a truck driver gets one under the DOT regulations, each one is cleared medically to be fit to operate a killing machine that endangers the general public on an hourly if not each second of the day. If your kids school bus driver's DOT medical card is good enough to drive little Sally to and from school and the likes, then it's should be damn good and well for the bus driver to take your fat ass friend on a fucking tandem with the same valid medical card! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

The FAA class 3 (only one I've done) would be easier to pass, no piss testing for drugs if that is what someone is worried about. Any commercial DOT physical will have a piss test for substances to go with it, the flight medical dose not require it. Can you get a DOT medical card without piss testing... yes you can by law, but in order to operate a commercial vehicle you will need to be in a testing program. However, answer the questions, asked, as too some medical problems or legal prescription drug use on the FAA medical and you'll find out your out of luck, however on the DOT medical, answer the same questions, honestly, they don't keep you from doing the a safety function dependent job, so you pass. The only difference in the Class 3 vs DOT is the blood sugar test for diabetes... THAT is it, the only difference between the two, other then the kind of paper work handed in to the DOT. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

South of the border homes... they can do what they want. Seat belts, wouldn't expect to see them. I would be only concerned with Juan fueling the birds from a horse trough with a old 5 gl bucket of some kind and a funnel. Or parts falling off the 11,000 hrs past TBO engines and those types of corner cutting things, the packers smoking a fatty would be pretty far down the list in a South border/ American and possible third world country.... Getting hurt and needing medical & drinking the non bottled water would be at the top of the list of concerns. Some things you just gotta expect in other parts of the world, our standards here are pretty high. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo