stratostar

I guess in Parris CA. LOL, just kidding Quade. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Same kind of lines as the rest? Can you tell us what the brand of the canopy is? you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I've seen other teams ask here for nats. when in need, but it wasn't posted as this one was. The way I see it is this is where all the camera flyers hang out Is this an ad? well yes it is, but it is not really the same as XYZ dz hiring someone to work for them, most team camera flyers only do the team jumps. I for one wouldn't mind if, say Strong posted looking for one of us to go do a photoshoot for them or other special working jump where they need a camera flyer.(like the would ever happen, they'll call Norm K or someone) What I don't want to see is tons of XZY Dz needs staff camera flyers posted here. But you bring up a good point, where do you draw the line? I guess you have to be special. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I guess you were awake in class after all. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

It would be one thing if the person you were posting to was an active poster and skydiver. Instead of an older lady who has come to find out the person she was married to was not who he presented him self to be in this womans life. Try to put yourself in her shoes, live with someone for years and as they are just about to die they tell oh BTW, I'm not really who you thought I was. Can you really blame this person for wanting to find the truth, do you really think she cares if he was or wasn't D.B., she just wants to know the truth instead of lies, maybe she would like have some peace of mind before she moves on in life or dies. Again, how would you feel if your mom or grandmother came here looking for answers about you someday, would you want posters to come off to them as rude, even if it was only in jest, or would you want them to get real answers to their questions. As for your poll, I'm not voting, I don't think you need to leave. Rather pick your smartass answers/post more careful, this don't mean never be a smartass in jest, hell I do it all the time, and guess what, it rub's some people the wrong way and they get pissed off and think I just being a dickhead or to harsh, kind of like my reply to you in the bonfire. While you may think DB Cooper died that nite or the next day, and those who don't think the same as you are stupid and DB was just a "stupid dead hijacker" that's fine. But maybe you need study up on your parachute history just little, there were only a few people alive at the time who could have pulled this off, he knew what the fuck he was doing, he knew his parachuting gear in great detail, he asked for 3 rigs, not just any old 3 rigs, but 3 very perticular types of rigs and canopies, this was no adverage joe dumbass off the street. I have been involved in this sport my whole life almost 40 years now, some of the real old timers seem to think they have an idea as to who did it, you think the skydiving world is small in todays sport, try "small world" at the time DB did his jacking. Everyone knew everyone back then. The fact they found some bills in the 80's (I think) don't mean he died that nite. I personally think it is quite possible he got way with it, there has never been a body or body parts found or parachutes or parachute gear found. That don't mean to say at some point in the future someone won't find some old ass rotten rig and body parts in the woods one day, but till they do, I can't rule out that he got away. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yea and the only bar I go to these days had lettuce and tomatos, but I have to have my glasses on to see um. You could be only one of a hand full who's mind is not fogged from all the bong hits. Cool I'll be on the lookout for it. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

First of all dimwit, it's Mrs. Duane Weber NOT an anonomous poster, as she has made very clear as to who she is and why she is here in more then one post. And just how do you know 100% he died that nite, because some cash was found? Let's see, he jumped out of a jet, more then enough blast on exit to lose some of the cash. But with your whole one year in the sport I guess you already know this. ***Come around Jumptown sometime and introduce yourself.*** I think ,NOT! But maybe you could post your grandmothers phone number so we call her up and be as rude as you, to her, my guess is you wouldn't care much for some talking that way to your grandmother if she was looking for info on you here. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

define normal we already know your a weird O you jump out of planes. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

stop lie'n you cut your hair and became a yuppie. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

It would nice to be so stinking rich that one wouldn't have to think twice to tell the city to stick it and pull up the whole DZ and move it "across the street" so to speak, just far enough to keep the money out of the city,but close enough so they can still see it on the way to work every day like a big eye sore of what of what they dove off, and then sit back watch the airport lose all the FED money, the city thinks their missing out on the cash cow, wonder what they would think after losing all the cash flowing into the town. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

When all the hippies quit jumping, patches were used to cover the holes in them hippie clothes. Now days it's only cool if your a walking advertisement for your sponsors or your one of the last old hippies still sporting them, not many left these days but there are a few around still. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I would say this is a better hands on in real time training then the sim, but S/L & AFF's we don't make them do a tandem first as some do, this where the sims is the most helpful. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I agree with you there, this is one of the cool things about having the virtual sim to use for training, it is set up to have our DZ displayed, or we can put you into a downtown, forest, or beach. I find by using this sim we produce better canopy skills from jump one, as well as dealing with mal's. It takes a little longer to train a class with it ,but the payoff is better FJS canopy control, we have seen this when on a few times the radio didn't work and the FJS landed in the main LZ and flew the pattern as trained and flaired at the right time to a stand up landing. It also very handy to for added training of more advanced students to work on all you said above in a virtual world first and then in "real time". you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

No because we don't a FJS to stall by flairing to high as many do, because they don't listen to the radio or just freak out from ground rush. If you read my long post to dave (above) you would see that advanced students get trained to sink into the pit, part of learning how to do this, is knowing where the stall point is on any canopy, we train them on how to find that point up high, so they don't stall while deep in the brakes sinking into the pit, this a very good thing to learn, flying in deep brakes and sinking a canopy without stalling it. For everyone, we are one of the few DZ's in the U.S. that has the virtual sim to aid in canopy control/mal training, we use it in the FJC as well continued ED. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

This is also one of the reasons we use them and skymasters. I agree with that. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Good morning Dave. I need to rephrase this, to the "students max performance". No and yes, no front riser, rear riser or carving, that is what advance canopy classes are for. Front and rear are done up high as per the ISP. But yes they are doing brake approaches learning accuracy, advance students also learn to sink into the pit, upwind/crosswind, downwind/crosswind landings when the conditions are right to do so or when they just fuck up reading the sock. Avoiding obstacles is drilled into them from jump one, we don't have a lot of them, but the ones we do have are upwind of the landing area 90% of the time, so we are heavy to teach turbulence/rotors and thermals with all the concrete around the LZ we get a lot of uplift in the summer. All of the trees are to the north if landing out there. And not to fly over the danger zones at a low attitude.(see attachment view west) If we are getting a lot of rotors off the hangers we use the clean air outs along side 240. Advanced students move to pit #2 due to the smaller landing area and the pit is closer to the taxiways making for a tighter LZ, this teaches them to keep their cool and learn to land in a tight area, so in the event they do land off the DZ they have less fear of shooting for a tight off field landing. I consider it using the skills they have been taught and using good judgment once off the radio, no holding upwind and waiting till the last second to run downwind and try to turn back, flying over the no go area to low and coming up short among the hangers and powerlines/AC/ballpark, low turns, not using a left hand pattern, unaware of others airspace in the pattern,knowing when to use the other LZ's due to wind conditions ect. and able to land on target 75% of the time once at that level of piloting. We have a very good success rate at producing good canopy pilots with a very low injury rate and without having student landing where they shouldn't be. Do we have some people who just mess up once in a while, sure we do, that is part of learning, most do learn and don't make the same mistake again most of the time, then every now and then we get the ones who should just take up golf as with every DZ. Yes I have, as well as the ones who get that new rig and everything they learned just flew out the window and they fly with their head up their ass, most of the injurys we do have are this type of young hotshot know it all 100 jump wonder who don't want to hear their fuck'n up big time and are going to eat it one day, these are the ones we hope go away so we don't have to clean up the mess. Andy908 here is a late nite PM from Dave. Believe it or not, Dave and I are really on the same page when it comes to the safety of students and teaching canopy control/downsizing ect. But we both seem to like a good debate once in a while, even tho we have not met in person, I think Dave is a good dude who has the best interest of his students safety in mind,, I would trust him to not cut corners and use substandard gear with students or let them jump in conditions that they shouldn't be jumping in. I know this to be true, because I have read his post for over two years now, I wouldn't think twice to send someone to go learn to skydive with him.

What do you mean by max height? How tall a camera can be mounted to the front L? If so it would depend on what you have on the top plate. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

First of all our students don't down size till closer to 20 jumps, if then. We don't let students get in the mind set that smaller is better and get in a rush to downsize. And no we don't keep them on a 288 manta till their ready to buy a pilot 150 and then turn them loose with it. When a student is ready to downsize, they can go to one of the 230 skymasters and then onto a 220, then on to a 190 and then on to a pilot 188. Once they have shown they can keep from killing them self or others, we work with them on getting demo canopies in the size and brand they may be looking at buying and if need be we will put them back on radio and talk them thur flying the canopy and flairing till them get it down. We don't want our students to keep up with the current trends of the downsizing we see in the sport today, we feel that a canopy pilot should learn to fly a bigger canopy to is max proformance before moving on to a smaller size. Our injury rate is almost none for students, we have a lot of concrete runways and taxiways and ramps surrounding our landing area see attachment of LZ photo, the few times we have had student hit them, they all have walked away with minor injury. We have 850 acres of open farm land, yet off of the 850 are some tight spots, keeping students on bigger canopies has kept students from being carried off in a bodybag when they panicked landing off the DZ. Were big on teaching our students accuracy first with big canopies so they can land where they want to when they need to, we feel this makes a better canopy pilot down the road when they do get their own rig. I didn't miss your point about using student rigs for FF, I agree with you on using those rigs for FF. But you point out "especially DZ's using mantas" as to say anyone using these canopies are substandard DZ's. At least that is how your post came across with that statement. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I see so a manta with a Zp top skin is not the same as your example used then? (navigator) And your right I wouldn't use a 288 manta for a 100lbs girl, I would use one of a few others in stock like a 220 fury or raider and maybe even use a PD 190 or 170 depending on jump numbers. And for a more advanced student I might use the pilot 188. However for a first time jumper or someone working on a getting an "A" the manta is a good safe canopy and is very forgiving, as is our 290 and 230 skymasters. Gee dave glad you pointed out how wrong we been teaching our students all this time, no wonder none of the students can land on the DZ, here we been teaching "modern canopy flight" with without a "modern design canopy", just think of all gas we'll save from having to picking up the students all over the county. Maybe you should call the president of PIA up and explain to him that letting his son make his first jumps on one of our manta's is not "modern". Gee I wonder why he chose to bring son to a unmodern DZ with substandard canopies, you would think the president of PIA would have a clue, now wouldn't you. I'm not really wanting to get into a pissing contest with you here, but making a blanket statement like that sounds as if your telling people "don't go to DZ XYZ, they use dyno farts over there". I could understand if we were talking about DZ's still using unit's, stratoclouds, and other canopies from the early 80's. I will side with you on the fact that, yes there are other brands of canopies on the market that are good student canopies, but that don't make a manta any less safe or unable to teach a student "modern canopy flight", that's my prospective. And if you wish to get ahold Cliff and explain to him how SWC is doing his son a disservice by letting him jump a manta you can reach him here, president@pia.com or call SSK you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

O.T. but you brought it up, just what is wrong with a manta for a student canopy from your prospective? you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Sounds to me like there was no good reason then? Yes you need to have a talk with them. Uncool! I try to "get ready" if I can @ 6k and look over the top to the main side and make eye contact for the pull, but as you know that's not always possable to do, how many times have we had great LV1's till the bottom end when it all goes to hell in a hurry. Good thing you didn't the shit kicked out of you. I jumped for a very long time without a cypres and even went to the course without one, but it only took the first two "real world" AFF's to get one installed ASAP for that very reason. (too easy to get kicked) you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well he/she better have a good reason for doing so when we get on the ground, with lack of any good reason for it, yes I would be a tad displeased. I would chalk that up to "hindering the students learning", how do you pass them to LV2 without giving them to chance to pass LV1. The first 3 TLO's are freebee's but the 4th is make it or break it on that LV. Again without a very good reason, I would be talking to the main side JM, if it happened again, I wouldn't work with them anymore and would even discuss the matter with the S&TA & DZO. If you pass the course and earn your rating then you better act like it from day one, and count on being held to higher standards by your peers. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

No reason to apologize to me as far as I'm concerned, your welcome to your opinion as is everyone else here. I see a lot of jumpers unwilling to stand up for what is right, because their afraid to stand up to the DZO cuz they don't want to become "unwelcome". I say fuck that BS, grab your balls and stick up for your right to skydive safe, and if asking to go around or taking the time needed to allow the jumpers in front of you the space needed, is making your jump safe or safer for others, then ask for it, if you get any shit for doing so find a new DZ, it's that simple. I have left two DZ's over the years, only one of them I have been back to after being asked to return by the DZO some years later. The other I refuse to go back to, but that is ok I'm still "unwelcome" there anyway, and even if I was welcome I wouldn't return. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Seems reasonable to me, it is quite hard to hear at times. The same can be said for a young jumper who is getting yelled at to GO,GO,GO, with a full face on it may very well sound like NO,NO,NO. So we have two posters who have 6 and 7 years in the sport, making statements as to a DZO who would run off jumpers who take their safety in to their own hands and do the right thing when it comes to exiting the AC, I think this is something we teach and can be found in the SIMS as well. And maybe even ask for a go around in order to exit in a safe way at a safe spot, safe time. Again don't we teach this and USPA preach's it. WTF are we wasting the time to teach this info if DZO's are going to kick off jumpers who do as taught to do. If you jump at a DZ that won't give you a go around with out bitching about it, you need to find another DZ to jump at! Your correct, STUDENTS keep the bills paid, and just who is the last to exit the AC 90% of the time? Solo's, coached students, AFF's, tandems, as an instructor I have had to ask for go arounds due to long on the spot a fair amount, NEVER have I had any DZO anywhere give me or any other I's I have worked with shit for asking to do a go around. If they did I would tell them to stick it in their ass and fuck off, our jobs as instructors is to keep the students safe, part of that would be leaving the AC at the right time and at the right spot. Anything less then that is cheating/risking the students. I'll have my gear bag packed and heading out the door long before any DZO can ask me to leave, if they can't do a 180 downwind jumprun or a full go around without getting into my shit for asking, it don't cost that much more to go around if it's needed. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Ding, ding,ding, we have a winner folks. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo