stratostar

Yes "thinking" would be the key term, using your head, not hitting your head. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yep mine is pretty tall when I have a pc 100 next to a 20d and not as tall with other set up's I use, but I use the pc 100 for most tandem and aff videos and the 20d on every jump. This has never been an issue with turbine AC, KA's , T-otters, skyvans,C-van's, B-99's, PAC-750,heli. or D-18's The time you have to be more aware is in 182's or 205 -206's when doing a climb out, you can mess up the airflow and make the door drop, to avoid this I just look down over the strut, till I got out far enough to get the air to hold the door up again, and it makes for a good DZ shot if your over the top. With a porter all you have to do is DUCK your head going out the door and bend at the knees if you are rear float and hope the pilot don't fuck with you by lowering the flaps. And a box is one more thing to slow down access to cameras and media and switches, plugs. I don't have any photos of that set up (pc 100 & 20d) to post, but this is attachment is what a use for films and TV commercial production work, and there a a hell of a lot of expense in cam's there, so I find it kind of funny, all the worry about using d-boxes for bumping one's head, if you can't keep from hitting your head, your one of the reasons we have DZO's mandating AAD's these days. For gods sake man duck MOFO duck! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I jumped a 182 all season long and as Dave said be aware of what your doing on climb out it's not a problem, I don't hit my cam or stills (both top mounted on a FTP) when jumpind a 182 or a porter. If you don't want build a W.rich helmet, there have been some good deals on here for FTP's with all the extras for a reasonable price. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I have no details, I know other posters here know and have seen other post but with no real info in them. I wondered myself. I can tell you the city kicked them off the airport, that is about all I got out of the other posts. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Closed. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Based on his post quoted above, nothing, he did for fun / traininng. He may have been working on a tandem rating, where you have to have a cutaway under your belt to get the rating, for example, or he may have just been bored and wanted to see what it is like to chop one. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

And I have never see a dz (not a club) that didn't pay to teach in any method. No pay= no teach! I'm not going to take 4 to 6 hour out of my day to train your students if your a tight ass and won't pay me for the work, you can do it yourself for free. With the low going rates DZO's don't want to pay in the first place, they wonder why no one want's to train their S/L students, and this is why you don't see many dz's using S/L anymore, to easy to throw them out tandem with no training. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Your bitch'n about getting 15 a head to train. Count your blessings and move on. We get 7 to teach and 3 a head to toss out and the H-P if we want to jump. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Javelin J-1 you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Take's one to know one you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Really, at least I can spell, idiot, apparently you can't and don't use spell check, if your going to call someone an idiot make sure you can spell it, or you'll look like the real idiot. But that's ok, you can get anything you want at Alice's resturant, walk right in it's around the back just a half mile from rail road track... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

4-F, cuz I got busted for litter'n, but I had a lot of fun filling out the papers and play'n with the pencils on the group W bench with the rest of those not up to the moral standards to kill camel jocky's. Yes officer obie, I put that letter under that pile of garbage! But I did get copies of the 8x10 color glossy photo's with the circles and the arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Try shopping around for one thing and don't look at only one container brand or reserve, also a used cypres can save you money. Your best bet is to take your time and do your homework. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I'm glad to see someone said it. I often see here as well as at DZ's people telling others to keep the handles, it is said /posted to newbies asking a lot of the time when they get their first rig. WHY? It is said like that is something to "show off" about, "look I saved my handles", we spend so much time teaching students and young jumpers the do's and don't's of the sport, many of these things learned over time and at a high price paid by another, only to have others counter that info not long after getting an A license. It seems to me the "cool factor" starts to come into play, as if to say only students /rookies toss handles, WHY? With the many way's one can find them selfs unstable after pulling the cutway, why add one more (unneeded) risk to the the event. If your stable, yes the oods are pretty slim of a cable wrapping a RPC or bridle on deployment, but what if you have a shitty launch and the RPC sit's in your burble with a bunch of bridle flapping around in close proximity to the cables, also flapping around. Many of us learned a long time ago this was not a good idea. I learned it in the mid to late 70's, long before my first jump seeing it live and in person, it was in fashion to do this back then, till a few folks got wrapped and it looks like an ulgy downplane, with a hard impact at the end. I for one was very surprised to read about someone dying from this in the 2000's. I see many lowtimers (people with less the 15 yrs in the sport) attempt to repeat the bad ideas that already have been thought up and tested long ago and discarded, they act as if their the first on the block to think of it. There have been times I have approached folks I see getting ready to repeat something real stupid, and get looked at as if I'm some silly old man or to chicken to try it myself, when in fact I have seen someone or read about someone who already tried that and the outcome was not so good, I'll ask them, what if this or that happens, and I'm amazed sometime by the replys, many of those are, "that won't happen", or "what are the odds of that". The questions I ask are things I have seen occur. But hey if you want go for it, I'll be sure to get video. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Not everyone, been flying cameras a long time now and have never incased any of them and one of the videos is still going strong after eight years. It helps if you take care of your equipment and be mindful it's all up there and duck your head on climb out, don't jump in the rain ECT. All your doing is adding weight and spending more money. The funny thing to me is most of the guys I have seen with all that extra shit are on their second and third video cams they put in the boxes. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well anyone who has been reading these forums for any amount of time, could tell you what I would have said. And in case you you don't know it would be, it would be a big FUUUUUUCK YOOOOOUUUUUU.(but with a smile of course and a finger.) you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Check your PM you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I asked diverdriver for help to get the NTSB & FAA reports on this, as I had many questions still all these years later, he told not a chance, the data base don't go that far back. I never heard anything about the mis-rigging, but that mean anything, I was young at the time and of course quite upset as was everyone in the jump Hawaii family. As for I's saving students we are on the same page no doubt about it. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I agree with you and we are on the same page. My only point to posting in this thread is a "spinning AC" not the what the job is of I's and JM's. As for 85H yes the Black family you are correct and low altitude was a factor, the stall, we later learned, the plane fell on it's back and broke the control cables and thus made a recovery impossible. You are correct some made it out, only one made it, if I recall the quote of the survior, 3 others passed him under canopy in FF as he only got thrown out, not jumped out and had canopy about 500ft, all these jumpers were in back by the door, a small door 18 at that. The demo was to be in Honolulu stadium and due to the hot lights heating the moisture that comes off the mountians, it produces a cloud and this is why the exit altitude is a low H&P so they can been seen. They had done that demo many times, Danny Black had just been checked out in the 18 and didn't have a lot of time in it and I only know this because my dad was his CFI, I think the GC was was to the AFT. there were many links in the chain. all of this was a long time ago and I'm going from memory on this, but I still have the parachutist mag with the report about it and was working for Byron at the time of the accident, these were all very close friends to me and the whole event sucked. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

No where did I say to sit back and enjoy the ride to your demise. I'm only point out to people it's not a walk in the park, and I see too many jumpers who think they will get out, many don't understand what all their in for, it is a huge misconception many have. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yea I used to do the same thing on the same ride, but I'll pretty much bet you that ride is no where near the same as an airplane spinning out of control in over all G force's generated, and if you really think it will be as easy as the ride to move around, you need to go take a ride in an aerobatic plane and pull some real high G's and see for yourself just what your really going to be facing should you find yourself in a out of control plane one day. If it was as easy as you think to get out, more jumpers on 85 Hotel and the loadstall in WA would have gotten out. 85 H. was only at 3k or so, and the loadstall was on jumprun at 12 or so, how much time do you think it took till impact? it wasn't much working time. You might want to read up on it and have a better understanding of reality. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Tracking, what tracking... this was two low timers man and wife, who were doing one of the first few jump together, the girl is a light weight and the hubby is a heavy, at about 6 the hubby went low, his wife was trying to close on him and I was moving in as well to keep filming them, at about 5 (4.5 break off was planed) in the corner of my eye I see the hubby reach with no wave or track and he dumps while low and the wife was still closing the gap, she was lucky and had started to turn to the right, this trun is what saved her from going thru his canopy. I had a great view of the whole thing and was thinking 0h shit, this will be ulgy, as it turned out all ended well, the point is "kiddies" make sure you dive your plan and track clear and WAVE OFF before you pull. And Kyle, your such a goober-smoocher lookout Penn-state kyle is on the loose with new toys. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I guess your buying, seeing how I'll have all the medical bills and all..... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Ms. Sofaking, One of the problems with posting is you can't read peoples body language or facial expressions during a good debate, believe it or not, if we were having the same pissing contest over a beer at the dz bar, I would have been laughing and shaking my head at your comments, and yes I would have said the same as I posted to your face, but you would be able to read my body language & facial expressions, at no point would beer bottle's or fist been flying your way, or even get mad at you or stating your points of view. But if you had ever been in any wild rides you would understand better the points myself and other posters were making, I'm sure you felt we were ganging up on you and taking your post out of context, but that one comment did tell many of us you had or have the mindset that the rules don't apply at some point when the shit hits the fan. That scares the shit of many of us who have had some very interesting airplane rides over the years. You and many of the jumpers who have started in the last 10 to15 years are "turbine babies" how lucky you are to be one, for the most part the days of DC-3's and beach 18's are gone, it was not uncommon to blow jugs and other engine issues, and they got your attention right quick. The Cessna is still the backbone of the industry and should you ever have the joy of an engine out or engine fire on take off (below 1000ft) your actions and the pilot's can have a huge impact on the outcome for the event as I'm sure you understand, based on your other comments. However I highly recommend to you and others newbie's, to study the crash reports of the many accidents that have cost us many friends over the years, there is a lot to learn in those reports and will give you a much better understanding of how one link in the chain of events, had it been removed could have changed to out come or kept it from happening in the first place. Many of the "turbine babies" today have a false sense of security in riding in those AC, the crash this past summer in MO comes to mind, if you look at the known facts, you couldn't have had better odds as to the top notch pilot flying the plane, size of the load and a twin engine AC, a lot of people think it should have been able to maintain and make it back to the airport, yes the twin otter could be capable of it in the right conditions, but this one didn't and we don't know why it didn't, yet, if that crash don't get many of today's jumpers attention there is something wrong, it could happen to any one of us at anytime and with the best pilot in the world at the controls, yet time and time again the end results sometimes don't work out like we plan and hope for. With all that aside it is up to each and every one of us to act accordingly when the shit hit's the fan, anything less then that is cause for great alarm, and this is why I didn't and won't cut you or others any slack on this issue, it comes from having been thru some rides with people who didn't act as they should and made it much harder to listen for the pilots commands as well as shifting weight around at a critical time. I truly hope you or anyone else doesn't have to experience it first hand, but should you, then you will understand in much better detail the many post's that were slamming you for the comment. My personal list of friends lost due to aircraft crashes is in the high 20's now, I hate to fly with rookie jump pilots, I hate it when am on a load and we do a hot take off or zero G's just after take off or turn and do buzz jobs, the only ones I see who enjoy this type of flying are the newbie's with less then 5 years in the sport, who weren't around when some events happened and often think it won't happen to us anyway, but yes it can be fun, and the only way you will truly understand is to read about the past events, I mean who here would think a buzz job would be a bad thing? I do, all you have to do is look at the king air in MI also about 6 years ago, I'm sure most on the load thought it was fun, till the plane stalled and fell out of the sky. I'm sure you don't know what accident I'm talking about, you should read about it, as well as some of the others of the past, that info may help you to make a better judgment in the future as to your plan of action or if you think it is safe to fly with a pilot you don't know or at a dz you have never been to. As for being harsh and not cutting you slack in this thread is in no way saying I wouldn't jump with you or be civil towards you at a dz or enjoy a good debate over a beer or while online in the future, it doesn't mean I hate you or want to kick your ass over a post you have made, I can respect the fact you have a different point of view even if we don't agree, the reason I said in my last post "goodnite" is there was no reason to continue the pissing contest this turned into and to check my attitude at the door on the way out and as you can see the mods felt I was out of line as well, we all have our passions and point of views on here and sometimes it is best to just agree to disagree and remain friendly with each other, we are all here for the same reason to learn, and for the community of a shared interest. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Dave I understand where your coming from totally, I just was pointing out a known fact with "spinning" AC. I wouldn't blame for trying and not bailing on your student, with the attachment I posted, I'm sure those who wern't thrown out (4-1 made it) were fighting to get to the door till the aluminum crumpled on the ground. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo