stratostar

Hey that one don't count man, you jumped as a main dude.... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yea tuck up like you doing a canon ball as soon as you leave the plane, that way you know your instructors are earning their pay. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Thanks for the flowers. No problem glad you like it/them that much you want to have a background of something I took, better your enjoying my work then the image sitting on a cd in my collection, collecting dust and no one enjoyng them but me. But next time I make it to your home DZ the first round better be on you. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

You sure got that right. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Not necessarily. One might disagree, since most of those old timers fly the erratic S-turn patterns on big squares and quite a few FF fly higher performance stuff and set ups. *** The reason you hear the "new breed" say this stuff is 1. canopies have changed and there are way more zoomies today & 2. none of these people learned the way we did and ever used the techniques, so them "old timers fly the erratic S-turn patterns on big squares" it is seen as erratic, because they don't understand working the wind line in that manner, where as when this was common we understood what was going on and it was normal and not erratic at all and was predictable. Anyone who has done many round jumps and then changed to squares or did a FJC (early squares) back then will understand my point, and the rest just won't get it, it is a real skill to fly backwards 'S" turns across windline to land on target, once we got squares we kept the "S" turns but now we could go forward most of the way instead of backwards,running,crab'n most of the way. I still jump rounds for fun and practice those skills of yesterday and it always blows the new kids mind when I can back up all the way to the LZ and land in the LZ, because they think you have no control under a round, I can do it with a T-10 and I can do it with a PC, I can spot, with all that said if I chose to do a jump like this with a round or a square I do a H&P from the 182 so I can have the sky to myself, it's no different then swoopers doing H&P's to do their thing. As I said in another forum there is a time and place for everything, and as many poster say we need to understand with education what the swoopers are doing, I find it kind of funny how the same wasn't extended to the old school rules, they were just thrown out all together and now the big "L" pattern is the standard now. The reason I say this is I still use those skills on tight demos or out landings, I'm glad I can have the experience from those old school skills they have come in handy more then once over the years. I realize no one dose it today as a standard and those skills have gone the same way of spotting, and that is why I chose to do those jumps by myself (or other old school jumper) in open airspace. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Mark, My last post was a broad brush in reference the possibility of those charges, if the feds bust you for an infraction of a FAR it could be a civil charge, i.e. a fine. If I cut your reserve cable and reserve riser and they bust me for it after you go in that could be both civil and criminal charges. If I put sugar in your airplanes fuel tanks and get busted after it crashes that would be criminal. As for embarassing Q's I had more in mind of anyone involved in jumping op's as to how it was to happen that your dead ass out in the dirt was let on a plane with no seal and how someone at said DZ could have got to your rig and cut all that shit to kill you. I have said it pretty clear do what you want with your own rig and your own ticket, and any fed can interpet the regs anyway they want at anytime. I'm not here to get into a pissing contest over what the FAR's say, if I pack a rig it leaves the loft with a seal, what you do after is on you, pretty clear. While my quote of poynter is not an FAR, it is good advice as to why on would want to keep there rig sealed. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well I ment it is the first thing one can do and your right they do make good money, we have all the fun. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

To All, Hey I like to swoop my big ass boat of a sabre 1 and I also like to shoot for the peas sport style or old school style under a foil. But if there is traffic or S/L's landing or any other reason for that matter if I can't do it free and clear of others in the air or on the ground, my ass don't swoop. If we are having a boogie you won't find me shooting the peas under a foil doing old school style, or if it's windy as all fuck I won't jump a round, there is a time and place for everything. I maybe old school, but I learned a long time ago this sport is about continued education for yourself, you can never stop learning period, you can never know it all! Anyone who thinks different is a fool, for one day it will bite you in the ass. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Oh course you may, thanks I'm glad you did, your comp, is right in line with the point I was trying to make in regards to rigging seals and removing them (within the USA) and how the FAA may view it during a ramp check or at the scene of a fatal accident. They will also ask embarrassing questions and someone could also face civil and or criminal charges. Some people really don't seem to understand that as fact, because we don't see it happen. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

While not in the FAR's a good ref to my point can be found in Poynter's manual Vol. 1, page 452, 7.94 paragraph 3. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Of course you can and so can anyone else, but putting it back with out looking funny is another story. To get mine out your going to have break the seal installed, and I'm not talking about the lead one on the reserve pin. Next time your due for repack, pull it out enough to where it might get cut and still be hidden when replaced and then try to replace it, it can be done, but not as easy as you may think. Same could said about access to a lot of bridles depending on the rig. Out of the known gear tampering cases to most freaky one to me was the pin sleeve installed, it took a lot of work to machine it, it was slick (well made) and could be missed very easy in a normal gear check, to install it the pin would have to have been unseated from the loop, it was found in a country I think (but not sure) they don't use seals on reserves. I understand where you guys are comming from, I'm not going to worry about this stuff, to each their own with your rig, do as you will, I have a ticket and will do my own gear, I will continue to keep my seal press under lock and key, I will continue to inspect my and my SO's rig's on a regular basis (more then every 120 days) I will continue to look for tampering with our gear, it happend once and could happen again, but "they" will have harder time getting to the rigs, I will also continue to keep the rigs under lock and key.(even between jumps) you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

While writing the way I did, yes I can see where your thinking is going, however my main point would the pack job not whole rig would remain tamper free, unless you get hold of my seal some how, your not going to be able to open up the pack job, do something (like cut a bridle/riser/lines ect) and reclose the reserve now tampered with and close with my seal again, on most rigs. Yes it is to ID the rigger, so if you bounce because someone cut your reserve cable or installed a "sleeve" on your pin and cut your aad cable, my seal may or may not be found, if it is still in place, they'll be on the way to find me. If you remove my seal walking out of the loft, anything can be done with your rig and you would/could never know it. Hope that clears up my point I was trying to make. (I understand that is not a written in the FAR's or the reason behind the rule, but with people trying to kill others it is a good reason to keep your seal on) riggerrob... you crack me up. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Close but no cigar.....packing #1 And Steve you need to duck more....I mean quit being a fashion queen you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Enough to keep you from spending all your trust fund, as long you eat right. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

First of all I'm NOT pointing fingers only addressing what I see going down, an when "we" try to remedy the issue it gets disregarded and an attiude coped, I have seen way to many hotshots overtaking lower canopies from above and behind, at our DZ a lot of the time it was students/lowtimers they were overtaking, and when asked to land out and way from the standard LZ so they could have their owns space to do as they like, they chose to disregard others requests in order to keep looking cool and put on a show,as you can see from the attachment it is very wide open and plenty of room for everyone to land safe, yet if they can't land right in front and put on a show the swoop area is not cool, this attiude is now common place in todays sport, with all that said we are on the same page here, really, I too chose to stay away and will land out at anytime, walking is good for my fat ass in the summer heat. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

This is any smarter then someone doing a 270 in traffic, how? Yet I keep seeing hotrod pilot's saying and posting their canopies come down so much faster as if to say the low canopy has the right of way is no longer valid. I wasn't there, didn't see it, could it be this 180 was done to avoid another hotshot,? I doubt it, but maybe. I see more hotrod pilots flying unpredictable patterns in order to do their "look at me joe cool swoop set up's" with no regard for others airspace rights and often backed up with the claim their canopy comes down much faster then those "big old boats", so now days if you jump anything over 100 sq ft your a minority and "in the way". In anothers posting it was claimed the "real pilots" wouldn't do such things as to endanger someone else, yet one of those names posted I personally watched swoop over the spectator area at a boogie and kick off the hat of an old man, yet he didn't get grounded because he was one if the "cool kids" we have today showboating around and all the swoopers thought it was cool. When will we start to see people using some common cense and less time spent on looking cool? It used to be you would get cut off 90% of the time by a rookie, in the last 10 years it has changed 100% the other way around to now 90% of the people doing the cutting off are flying pocket rockets and doing some crazy ass turn to swoop. We tried to solve to problem @ SWC by mandating a swoop only LZ, the problem was none of them would follow the rule and cried about it was to far to walk back, IMHO it was really because the LZ was to far away for them to look cool and put on a show for the staff, students and the wuffo's who come to watch their friends jump. At least now we have less of them deal with (@ SWC) due to their own stupid actions or they have moved on to hotshot else where in someone else's playground. In the last 5 years I have been cutoff more times by super swoopers then any of the others, even those doing a right hand in a left pattern. With so many hotshots in the air these days I feel much safer doing working jumps then fun jumps, at least I'm out last, deepest on the spot and can pull higher and often can be one of the last to land and avoid the idiots. I think more people need to come to the understanding that they don't need to swoop on every jump and try to land in the main LZ if their going too, but that wouldn't be in fashion these days. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

To be honest I don't either, but I have seen this same type of a catch-22 wording use by an inspector, doing just as I posted in 2002, how you and I interpret the wording really don't matter in the long run, what matters is the inspectors interpretation your dealing with at the time and how they try to enforce it. The OP wanted to know where it said that, this is the best I can find, but with seeing how some inspectors are over others, I find it best to keep ones ducks in a row. I could care less if I repack your rig and you take off the seal, but it will be there when you leave the loft, I have complied, did you when removing??? I don't know it's up to their interpretation, I lean towards not, but that's my interpretation You don't, only the paper work has to be in compliance to those rules and that is all you have to go on or you make them get a repack. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

14 CFR: 65.111 and 14 CFR: 65.131 If you yank your seal off the rig and then make a jump and get ramped checked upon landing and the fed's ask you where your seal is and you tell them you took it off, you will be asked to comply with section "D" of 65.111. If you can't produce a valid ticket you didn't comply with section "A" of 65.111 because you "altered" a rig and your busted, depending on what inspector you get checking you and their mood that day. While not spelled out it is in this section, it implies once the seal is on the rig, the rigger is issuing a airworthy certification of the rig for 120 days. Once the seal is removed or broken the certification is now void for the pack job because the seal in no longer intact and there for it can not be sure someone other then the sealing rigger wasn't inside the pack doing work their not rated to do or as in this thread doing something to the rig to kill you. To the contrary, having worked with and attended courses put on by Sherry I'm well aware of how much detailed the info is in a course of hers and the standards she holds her staff too. Your statements imply that you don't understand the infomation and don't know where to find the information, and as a person holding a basic instructor (coach) rating you are expected to know the infomation and where to find it if you don't know it off the top of your head, you should be able to explain this info while teaching the non method specific part of the FJC and be able to direct the students you work with to this infomation within the SIMS or in the FAR's for their understanding of the rules / laws that they must comply with while conducting parachute operations. It would also imply that you may or may not do a compleat gear check of the coached students you are jumping with and would let a "student" jump a rig with a missing or broken seal because you don't seem to understand the FAR's or even where to look them up, sorry dude but it is basic stuff you should be well versed in at this stage of your jumping. As for where I jump, you can find me in the summers @ Skydive Wayne County Richmond In. and Skydive Greensburg, Greensburg In. and at times CSC & SDC. In the winter Skydive City z-hills. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Ditto. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I understand that, however most newer cards have a space for the symbol and most riggers will put it on there. I do my own rigging and while visiting Skydive ATL the the manifest chick was looking over my waver and data card and rig and tried to give me some shit about my symbol not matching my seal, till I pulled out my airmans cert. so yes some dz's look for it regardless of FAR 65.131(c). you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

No that is not what the FAR's say. You should reread them or discuss this issue with Sherry if you don't understand them, she happends to be a good source of learning and is quite easy to reach and willing to provide the info. The info is already there and available to read and even encouraged to be read while advancing in the levels of training under the USPA training program and in BSR's located in the SIMS. I'm surprised to see that someone who jumps at a USPA RD's DZ has such a lack of basic understanding of the FAR's and how they pertain to you. Did you not take a test to get your A,B,C or Coach rating ? Or are you one those who looks up the answers for the tests but don't file the info away? This is basic stuff covered in the A,B,C license tests as well as in the ratings course, did you not read the IRM? It is not the job of the DZO or pilot or USPA to hold your hand it is up to you to understand and comply with the FAR's that rule over you, a total lack of understand is not going to work with the fed's if you get ramp checked and are not in compliance. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

First of all no need to take that tone with Terry, no where did I see in his post that HE thinks the pilot should be held responsible, however is is the law according to the FAA, I guess you missed that point! Terry don't make the laws so don't bitch at him for pointing it out to you and other who don't seem to get it. If you want to walk out of the loft and yank the seal off your rig go for it, and when you get ramp checked by the feds or asked by one as you walk back from the LZ to see your card and rig,(yes they have the legal right to do so at anytime) have fun filling out the paper work and pissing off the pilot and rigger who signed the card, it's your choice. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I wouldn't really call it a big DZ, but an open one, we have 850 acres of open airport property area and miles and miles of open fields for off airport outs, with no farmer Mcnasty's in sight, and little airport traffic. Attached photos in order: 1. From 30 grand (appx give or take a few) 2. Outlined appx 10k anything in the green is good to go. These three images show close up views outlined. 3. Close up looking southwest, inside red line NO GO. 4. Close up looking south. 5. Close up viewing north. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2579063;#2579063 Have a look here, at the photos. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yep and should the day ever come you find your rig and your SO's rig tampered with as I have, you'll start locking them up and never leave them where some one could get to it, it only takes a few second to cut a reserve riser and stuff it back in or other types of tampering. Also I don't see in this thread anyone bring up the reserve pin "sleeve" some one made to slide over the pin and was found at repack when the ripcord was pulled and they got a total, because the "sleeve" was still in place. Yep there are some real lowlife mother fuckers in the sport, steal your gear or try to kill you, just watch out who you bad mouth or as some would say "snitch" on. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo