smokin99

Also did I miss where anything was mentioned about the lack of certain elements on the money? I noticed that 2009 samples of the water and sand were obtained but I can't find any follow-up on the composition of the water - besides the find of a couple of diatoms found on current bills soaked in the water. In other words - if the water had a high concentration of a certain element like mercury or aluminum (just generic examples - I read that dredging was stopped once in early 70s because of high levels of mercury) could one correlate the lack of this substance on the money as significant? Or is this just another avenue that would be too full of supposition and not enough real data? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Something else to ponder: This from an article in the Oregonian 3/5/2009 found here: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html "Last year, Carr sent Kaye a sample of the tattered hijacking currency that remains in FBI custody. Kaye did a chemical analysis of the $20 bills and said he discovered a "unique chemical marker," a compound that explained how the bills degraded and could possibly point to where they had been. He declined to identify the compound because he said it could be a key finding in the scientific paper he plans to write about the investigation. "I'm trying to determine where that (compound) exists in nature," Kaye said." Then this from Kaye's web site: http://www.citizensleuths.com/moneyanalysis.html Subsequent examination under EDS showed that the black Fig 3 Rainbow iridescence on the black bills signaled a refractive molecular layer present on the surface.Fig 3 Rainbow iridescence on the black bills signaled a refractive molecular layer present on the surface.coating was due to a silver on the bills surface. Several potential natural sources for the silver coating were examined, but in casual conversation, a law enforcement officer mentioned that silver nitrate that was used in the early 70's to detect fingerprints. This treatment had the negative side effect of eventually turning the evidence black. Commercially available nitrate test strips were employed and the results were clearly positive. Further examination of the news photos from 1971 did not show any black bills. Although there was no record of any testing done on the bills prior to this analysis, the data indicates the blackened bills were checked for fingerprints using silver nitrate at some point in the 70's. Huh??? 1st..Is silver nitrate the compound that Kaye is talking about in the 2009 article or is he holding something back? 2nd..What's up with all the references to the 70s in regards to the found money? ("further examination of news reports from 1971 did not show any blackened bills", "silver nitrate used in 1970s", "data indicates blackened bills were checked for fingerprints using silver nitrate at some point in the 70's"). What does the fact that they used silver nitrate in the 70s for fingerprints have to do with anything? Is he saying that the bills were fingerprinted in the 70s using silver nitrate (you know, because that's what was used in the 70s)? When and why would they have fingerprinted the bills in the 70s? What photos of the bills in 1971? Has this been addressed before? At the top I see this: Fact: Some of the Cooper bills were black from unknown causes. Fact: Silver was detected everywhere on the black bills and a nitrate test came out positive. Interpretation: Silver nitrate was used in an attempt to find fingerprints on the bills in 1980 but this was not recorded. So.... is the "unique chemical marker" referenced in the article silver nitrate? Or did Kaye not reveal all of his findings? And.... are all of the references to the 70s in the body of the report just a slightly unsettling amount of typos for a scholarly effort? Or am I missing something here? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

------------------------------------------------------------ Sounds like what SafeCrackingPLF said in his analysis using Occam's Razor -- most probable solution is the simplest, one that introduces the fewest assumptions. Any accurate information on the dredging would be key. And again, I come back to the fact that some seem to be ignoring -- how do you explain the pitted, blackened, worn, tattered condition of the Tena Bar bills? Check out 377's 20 -- if he'll let you. If the bills got to Tena's Bar by "unnatural means," ie, someone planted them there, way after the fact, then how did the planter get the bills to look so tattered and worn? Did DBC take the money and chemically "antique" the bills, then later plant a few bundles at Tena's Bar just to throw us all off? Or maybe it was a passerby, at some later time, who found the DBC money bag, after it had been rolling down the River for years, and then planted 3 bundles at Tena's Bar -- just to throw us all off -- just to get a good laugh? All kiddinh aside, I believe there is a logical explanation, we just haven't found it yet. Any theory that does not explain the tattered condition of the bills is bs, plain and simple. MeyerLouie .....And then there is also the suggestion that the money find itself might be suspect. That the money might have been "planted" for the child to find. At least this was brought up the last 2, 3, or 4 times the money find was discussed in minute detail on this forum. No reason to leave it out now......

I really would like to find Toms exact comments about his socalled print-exact lineup btwn bills - if its even on his website? I want to know what "bills" he's talking about ??? The three bills he received originally (sent by Carr), other bills he looked at in Seattle .... WTF are you talking about Tom!? I hope you are not using a sample of 3 bills as representative of all the bundles, all the cash, what are you talking about? G. I could find nothing about print bleeds...but he does talk about alignment of the money here.... http://www.citizensleuths.com/moneyanalysis.html Paragraphs 5 and 6 under the section titled "Discussion". There is also a pic on the right - Figure 5 - that he references but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yes, your project 305 cockpit is very cool!

Robert Blevins said: Part of Kaye's conclusions were based on the published FBI flight path being inconsistent with money ending up on T. Bar. So putting that aside...... why is it hard to imagine the money staying together under Farflung's scenario? What I think he is suggesting is that one natural way for the 3 bundles of money to stay together is that they were wet compressed/compacted - in or out of a bag - for a period of time before whatever mechanical or natural means brought them to their final resting place. Many of Kaye's conclusions (bundles coming apart, rubber bands degrading, assume that the money bundles were being stressed by moving constantly in the water for several + years. Even if the bundles got to T bar by dredging or flood, it doesn't seem likely that they just floated around wily nily for years. BTW...Kayes team chunked some banded bills in the river - and, because they found a bundle without the rubber band, they assumed that it degraded. Tell that to the walleye that thought he was about to feast on a worm. Plus the rubber band analysis fails to report the size and length of the rubber used in the underwater experiments AND we don't know the size or degree of stretch used on hijacked money. Small points maybe and I'm not saying that Kaye's stuff is irrelevant at all - a lot of it makes sense, and in a case like this I guess one is forced to make assumptions, Just saying that they made a lot of assumptions. Just saying...for a person that "QUESTIONs EVERYTHING", you don't seem to question a whole hell of a lot.

lol..Gotta love a man of science. The only thing I think while opening that third beer is "now where did I put the freakin cheetos?"

One last post about the jump. Whatever the final results are certified to be...It was pretty awesome (and i mean that literally) I get the heebie jeebies everytime I watch it at the part before he steps off. Looked like way too much stuff to snag his suit on. And the part where he was tumbling/spinning was tense. Some random tweets: That awkward moment when you realize an energy drink has a better space program than your nation. It is clear that Felix dude is not a cat. We cats have way more sense than that. FUN FACT: The capsule has a special compartment to accommodate Felix Baumgartner's enormous balls. Mission accomplished!

Lol...Blevins, you probably wouldn't be catching any grief if you had just said this in the first place? No one needs to bounce a radar beam...The way I figure if the mission team didn't get his exact speed, then in some ways, this experiment is all for naught. But that's not the point. I'm reasonably sure they got it right. Here's what kills me...you just put stuff out there without checking or really even reading the facts and then you shrug it off like it's no big deal when someone calls you on it. And if it's not a big deal -- why post it in the first place or respond when someone points out that what you posted was inaccurate? Hell even on terra firma a difference of a mere 5 miles/hr in speed can increase a fine anywhere from $250,00 - $500.00. Maybe more if past offenses. My point being -- Accuracy is indeed relative to this mission.

HUH!? Speed numbers? Well, since virtually every post where you comment on something I've said is an insult...I accidentally mixed up you and Farf. An understandable error, considering your history. Farf: Go whine to Red Bull...etc. Blevins: Maybe you should go back to Red Bull, read the numbers, then re-read Farf's post and maybe you'll get what he means. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm curious - would a ticket stub have Sea-Tac on it or simply the airport code "SEA"? Admittedly I only did a very brief search but I'm seeing a lot more references to "SEA" on images of ticket stubs and the words "Seattle-Tacoma" are more frequently used in news articles of the day as well as in pictures/maps of the layout of the airport. Just wondering if the word Sea Tac would have been on a 1971 ticket stub. SEA TAC The stub was like a parking ticket or old theater ticket. It was blue or grey. I never understood how it could have been a parking ticket unless he parked a vehicle at the SEA TAC airport or maybe it was a Ticket someone else who was assisting him may have incurred. This has been discussed before and why I think there was someone with him. This is not the same as the copy of the airline ticket that I saw in 1994 that would later reappear and then disappear again. Long story I will not repeat as this as I have told the story many time in this thread. Use key words and find my multiple post about this subject. I'll pass. It's getting late and not gonna grind the point - which is moot anyway. As with so many things Cooper, there is no physical evidence and we're still stuck with "cause I said so and I always tell the truth".

I'm curious - would a ticket stub have Sea-Tac on it or simply the airport code "SEA"? Admittedly I only did a very brief search but I'm seeing a lot more references to "SEA" on images of ticket stubs and the words "Seattle-Tacoma" are more frequently used in news articles of the day as well as in pictures/maps of the layout of the airport. Just wondering if the word Sea Tac would have been on a 1971 ticket stub. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Lol...Oops Blevins, watch out for that petard. And talking about a lady's age while lecturing others on manners...... I know your Mama didn't leave off that part

Many questions about Baumgartner's jump - equipment,plan,etc. are answered here. http://www.redbullstratos.com/ There will also be a live stream of the jump, I think. I had my alarm set to remember it, but looks like they've rescheduled it to Tuesday due to weather. That's right. I would suggest anyone who is planning to watch this live to take that link above and make it into a shortcut on your computer desktop screen...so you won't forget.

Many questions about Baumgartner's jump - equipment,plan,etc. are answered here. http://www.redbullstratos.com/ There will also be a live stream of the jump, I think. I had my alarm set to remember it, but looks like they've rescheduled it to Tuesday due to weather. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I don't know how much credence I would give to the fact that no one saw "mud huts". In 1971, Nepal and surrounds looks like a pretty big place with varied landscape and living conditions to me.....http://vimeo.com/23175499 And this guy had to have a trekking permit to go to Nepal in 1971 so I'm wondering how easy it was to get in and out of there without leaving a paper trail.... http://aroundtheworldblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/planning-ahead-for-nepal-and-tibet.html However, if anyone could do it...It would probably be Sheridan Peterson

In his second attempt, the article says that the ground crew had to jettison the balloon so he could come down with the cargo chute that was under the balloon. "When the balloon was released, the gondola, with its door open, tipped forward at a 45 degree angle, but Nick hung on. He dropped for 25,000 feet, speeding towards the earth at 600 mph. After 15 seconds of freefall and 5 g’s of force, the cargo chute finally inflated." How did the ground crew jettison the balloon? Radio remote control? A Commodore 64 on board? nah.. those didn't make it til the 80s I think. Seriously - how did it work? On another note...there is a pretty cool interview and video about Kittenger's jump here... http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kittenger-free-fall.htm but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Lol....I give up. Follow closely. What is the title of of the "bio"? fwiw...The website that you linked has been posted on dropzone several times in reference to Sheridan Peterson. The "article" that Peterson wrote for the Sonoma County League of Women Voters is his autobiography. It is titled "Home Coming". http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/sn/vote/peterson_s/paper3.html. I see your point, but I also see the logic in 377's take on it. However, my point was and remains - facts may be inconvenient or otherwise irrelevant to whatever point you are trying to make, but, jeez, if you're gonna put something out there that can be so easily checked, then check it. Otherwise just say you don't know. It makes it so much easier and might give you more credibility when concerning facts that do matter. Now, go outside and play.

lol..I know you think that some facts are irrelevant and others just get in the way sometimes, but, how about this... If you don't know, then just stick with I don't know. According to the Homecoming article, the mud hut was at the base of Annapurna, which is in Nepal. Additionally, to quote Peterson from the Rohnert Park, CA meetup group... "...spent.... two and a half years in Pokhara, Nepal writing a protest novel of the Vietnam War. That's where my children were born. We lived in a mud house near the base of Annapurna." lol... Don't take my word for it. Check for yourself.

Just a tip in case you didn't know - Some things that you get from subscription genealogy websites can be obtained for free. Takes a little longer to dig thru but most states and counties have stuff on rootsweb sites, FamilySearch.org is an LDS site that is free (or used to be), and the national archives has some stuff online. http://www.archives.gov/research/military/veterans/online.html. Though there's really nothing like spending a day in courthouse basements or the library looking through old original records for elusive ancestors.

From http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=16497 Franklin D. Roosevelt 20 - Statement on the Army Specialized Training Enlisted Reserve for Seventeen-Year-Old Graduates. March 3, 1944 I am delighted that the War Department has expanded the Army Specialized Training Enlisted Reserve for seventeen-year-old high school graduates. This enlarged program will provide the armed forces with a necessary reservoir of younger men with specialized training at the college level. For those properly qualified in this age group the enlisted reserve program provides the best possible opportunity for them to serve their country. To be eligible for training all young men who will be high school graduates by July I must take the joint Army-Navy qualifying examination on March 15. It will be given in thousands of high schools and colleges throughout the country. Everyone who passes this test and a physical examination, and is within the proper age limits set by the Army and Navy, will be given an opportunity to apply for the reserve and to express a preference for either the Army or Navy program. Those selected will be sent to a college or university at the expense of their Government until the time they become eighteen years of age, or for longer periods depending upon their age, special qualifications, and the national need of their services in the armed forces. The Army will call no one for active duty until after his eighteenth birthday. I urge every young American who will be a high school graduate by July first to investigate the Army and Navy reserve programs immediately. It is of the greatest importance to the Nation that as many as possible take the March 15 examination. The above coincides with the May date and Kenny's age so it does look like he might have enrolled in the program above with active enlistment after he turned 18. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

EDIT: Don't have the ID card. I looked. Skipp sent a portion of his discharge papers, which have his right thumbprint on them. But it's only a partial shot of the document, mostly sent to me because of the thumbprint. I will have to ask Porteous to send a copy of the entire document. Blevins, Where did you, or Porteous, get the above information? The sequence of those assignments doesn't make sense. Typically, after being sworn in, enlistees would spend a week or two at an Army post, Fort Snelling in this instance, taking various mental examinations, and being issued their uniform and personal clothing. After that, they would immediately be moved to another unit at Fort Snelling, or another Army post, for basic training. Instead, you have KC undergoing 18 weeks of studying "Advanced Algebra" and "Trigonometry" at Brookings, SD. What was the purpose of this specific training? Having gotten up to speed in algebra and trigonometry, KC then decides to become a paratrooper. However, before that can come to pass, he is assigned to Fort Leavenworth, KS for "rigorous physical training". Then about six months after he entered the Army, KC starts basic training, which included rifle training, at Camp Hood, Texas. Based on my personal experience and that of a number of people I know, basic training involved lots and lots of rigorous physical training and rifle training plus training with machine guns, grenades, rocket launchers, hand to hand combat, bayonet practice, and a number of other fun things that I have probably forgotten. So about eight months after he entered the Army, KC finally makes it to Fort Benning, GA for paratrooper training. Assuming he made it through that training, he would have had about nine months military service upon completion of paratrooper training. Now just exactly what did he do with that training during the remainder of his military service? What was his military job? What units did he serve with? When did he get out of the military? If you have any answers to the above, please post them here. Robert99 I'm not getting the May 25th enlistment either. The only thing I've found (was only a quick look, I'll admit) is that he enlisted to Fort Leavenworth, KA on December 18th, 1944. The below also says 1 year of college. My guess is they had a cadet program where he enlisted out of high school but went to college or courses at Fort Snelling until active duty enrollment Dec, 44 Kenneth P. Christiansen 473-30-3599 State of Issue: Minnesota Date of Birth: Sunday October 17, 1926 Ser: 17141033 Race: White, citizen (White) Nativity State or Country: Minnesota State of Residence: Minnesota County or City: Stevens Enlistment Date: 18 Dec 1944 Enlistment State: Kansas Enlistment City: Fort Levenworth Branch: No branch assignment Branch Code: No branch assignment Grade: Private Grade Code: Private Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law Component: Reserves - exclusive of Regular Army Reserve and Officers of the Officers Reserve Corps on active duty under the Thomason Act (Officers and Enlisted Men -- O.R.C. and E.R.C., and Nurses-Reserve Status) Source: Enlisted Reserve or Medical Administrative Corps (MAC) Officer Education: 1 year of college Marital Status: Single, without dependents but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

If the above (about the picture) is in response to my question, then you missed the question. Pictures are subjective. For example. There are pictures of Gossett that resemble the sketch to me. On the other hand there is also a picture of Kenny that favors the sketch; however, I do not think the one of him that you believe was taken in late 71, early 72 bears a great resemblance. It is the other one - the one of him in the plane. BTW...I don't think anyone has ever answered the question that I asked - when was it taken? And which picture was shown to Flo? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Meant to add about the duty logs... Pointing out that something is most likely futile and/or probably does not exist is NOT the same thing as "laughing it off". The general mode of this thread is that when someone is told something can't be found - or is not likely to be obtainable - there is a subsequent run on the search engines to try and prove it can.