smokin99

And there you have it. Good point, farflung. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Okay...so speaking of Ralph Himmelsbach...I forget...tell me again how he got to be the go-to guy? Not sure how they divvy up the cases. - Or do they all work on it and one guy is just more public than the rest? I never hear anyone talking about Tom Manning (FBI In charge of Search) or H Earle Milnes (Seattle SAC), etc.. According to Himmelsbach, he was the primary active on the case, right? Is it because the hijacking originated from Portland? But then I read articles of the day with other FBI agent names mentioned - He's not really prominent (as far as being mentioned in articles) until later years. Wonder if any of the other players are still around - like FBI guys mentioned above or Northwest folks? By the way...here's an interesting article that mentions retired FBI agent Tom Manning..I thought it would be right up Farflung's alley (has planes and virgins and volcanoes) http://www.lexingtonfilm.com/cmtsthelens.htm

Almost, but not quite nothing. Himmelsbach: Yeah you've quoted that before. Though I don't know why, since, in reality, it would seem that Himmelsbach did not know his dynamite from a hole in the ground. I and others have posted several pictures of red dynamite of roughly the same shape. dimension, and did I mention COLOR (RED) of the description depicted in the transcripts. Yet you persist. So maybe none of the dynamite Himmelsbach handled was red, but there was red dynamite. Could it have been fake...sure...I tend to think there is credence in the flare idea. But the fact that it was RED is NOT proof that it was not dynamite. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Someone I know was on the other side of the gun pictured here. http://georgiabankrobbery.com/2008/07/pinehurst-10192007/ She said that LE - including GBI - badly botched case where there was tons of evidence including, but not limited to, a full grease or sweat handprint that she said LE said they could not process. In fact, she watched as they wiped it off. They found the get-away car with money in Atlanta, but they screwed up on some technicality with that and, if I'm not mistaken, had most of that evidence thrown out so charges were dropped against all but one person. Don't know why with the video and witnesses - guess the DA was a wuss. The one person who was indicted apparently took off and was actually extradited from Texas on an outstanding warrant related to the robbery earlier this year. Not sure what happened with that. I don't know if the FBI was involved or not - for some reason I'm thinking she told me they were not, because I remember being surprised about that -- since I thought they were usually called in on bank robberies. I might be wrong on that. It might be that they just weren't there during the immediate time period following the robbery. She told me that while the guy had the gun pointed at her, she was very scared and shaking at first. In addition to having guns pointed at her, the robbers were acting/talking violently and seemed to have a personal vendetta regarding race/banks/loans. In short, she knew, without a doubt in her mind, that she was going to die that day. So she started praying that her kids would be okay. And all of a sudden, she wasn't scared at all anymore. True story. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Inside a parachute flare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFDEZlBaWcE Not saying that Tosaw's parachute flare --- if it is a parachute flare --- came from 305, but I would bet that dynamite sticks, I mean parachute flares,

Fair enough. But consider this: When I make a mistake, people point it out to me so many times it becomes redundant. I can understand that, and I can 'take it'. However...fair is fair. And what is good for the goose is good for the gander. This means I should not be the only one pointing out the deceptions and flaws in Cook's story. Do you know what would happen to me if I posted up (without naming names or giving details) that some boys found shards a month before Brian did (corners only, no serial numbers sorry)...and offered ZERO evidence? And then tried to connect this to an old article by using deceptive information to promote it? Ha. You think Farflung and Georger are hard on me now? They would have a field day with this one. I don't blame the content of that article on Bruce Smith. He simply reports what Galen Cook tells him. And I'm saying that Cook misrepresented the information in his statements for the article. I believe he dipped into that 'patch' story in an effort to support his OTHER allegation about the 'corner-only money shards'. Then he dressed up the patch story to make the whole package look better. I'm not necesarily the arrogant type. I'm a pretty laid-back guy, generally. This article, these claims, have nothing to do with whether or not Ken Christiansen was the skyjacker. This goes to credibility. And if Mr Cook misrepresents the information about Tosaw's nylon, and tries to pass off this 'long-buried discovery' as something new, then you have to ask what would motivate him to do that. I believe his motivation is simple. He's trying to link these stories together, and the whole thing is thinner than a sheet of Saran Wrap. No names, many claims (hired-scientist studies) and more general BS and unnecessary mystery than I can list. It may sound like I am angry, but I am not. Disappointed in Cook? Yes. When I come to Ariel this year I am doing a video. You want to tell your side, your suspect, your story, hey...I will shoot your stuff as long as the harddrive holds out. But remember it all goes to YouTube later. See you there. Maybe I will buy you a beer if you're polite. We may disagree on the case, but that doesn't mean I don't respect your viewpoint. Even Cook, yes. Um, BK...maybe not. Besides, everyone knows I can't say for sure it was KC. If I knew that, I'd be on Letterman next week.

That information wasn't 'lost in 40 years of investigatory dust'. I found four direct references to it and dozens more available in many western newspapers and some east-coast papers. Lodi is in California, and so is San Jose. Salt Lake City is where a lot of Mormons hang out. Article appears in all of those and more. Those are not 'local media'. This story definitely hit the wire. I don't have 'venom' toward Cook. I just have a short fuse for someone who tries to re-invent a known story, and then engage in puffery to make it sound as if HE made a big discovery out of it. I found those articles in less than 30 seconds on my first Google search. First of all, Mr Shutter didn't make that statement, I did. Second -- anyone that knows about Cooper or has done more than a little bit of reading about the case is aware of that "pilot Chute". How old were those articles? I believe that is the reference made to 40 years of Investigatory dust. Third - I'm calling bullshit on you not having venom toward Cook AND condescension to BSmith. It reeks as much from your posts about him as anything directed by others toward you. Cook has done no different than you in that you guys take some facts, some loose coincidental information and then try to make a story out of it. Good for him, good for you, but seriously you, of all people, have no grounds to call someone on taking liberty with the facts. And finally, "Engage in Puffery" Really? Ye gads I've heard it all now. Your condescending attitude or the perception of it towards Smith's writing is confusing to say the least. I'm not going to be downright ugly so you will have to read between the lines on that one. I'm willing to wait on the rest of the info - just like I did with KC. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Come on, Bruce. I read the article. That find was all over the newspapers. Cook is coming off like it is a brand new discovery. Found the attached at the Lodi News Sentinel, and it's in the Deseret News and a TON of other papers. I like you a lot, Bruce. You have gotten better, I think, on your technique. But in my humble opinion when you deal with Cook you need to start cutting through the BS and the unneeded mystery with him. LOL... you and Jo kill me with your "venom" towards Galen Cook. I thought that the "find" was referenced appropriately. "Although this information had been reported in a local newspaper at the time, it had never been carried by major media outlets and subsequently has gotten lost in 40 years worth of investigatory dust. .... he felt the 41st anniversary of the skyjacking was an ideal moment to re-release the information, updating its meaning with the weight of recent findings. I will definitely look forward to hearing more about it, though, with you. For one thing, the Pilot chute Is described as being 18 inches in the article, but 24 - 36 in Bruce's article. Perhaps they are talking about two different finds?? I guess we'll have to wait til more info comes out. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'll have to peruse the transcripts again for true numbers but don't they take off about 730ish, and some think - based on Hancock and Mucklow accounts if I remember correctly - that he supposedly has the gear on and -- the money tied before Mucklowe is in the cockpit and before the aft stair light comes on / door is down. So Aft stair light on/door is down within 5 - 10 mins after takeoff ------ But they don't get the oscillation until around 8:12. I don't think any of us can really know what his plan was and I'm not saying that his aim was not to make a quick dive --- - but for someone that's in a hurry to get out of there, that's approx 30 mins that he's back there twiddling his thumbs. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Jeez...read the posts. Absolutely no one is advocating that they believe this. It's just being discussed and most are saying it's unlikely. A lot of folks think that his plan was to jump immediately, but here's some more food for thought...Maybe, just maybe.... for several reasons...he wanted it open because he was just not at all sure that the door would open in flight. Seems to me for all his "insistence", he gave in pretty easy on the door thing if he indeed knew that they could take off with it open. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

lol....all I can say is .....and I sincerely hope it works out for you.......GET A ROOM! Cmon Marla, call him! But you know I love you Farf so remember........ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcLazPauA1c

Well if it's common case history, it should be fairly easy for you to cite original source. That's all I'm asking. I could give you a long list of stuff that's been said on this forum as fact that turned out to be anything but because people just assume that urban legends are accurate and repeat. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Fact/Primary/original Source? This is not a smartass response. I asked this earlier and still want to know. If it's been posted before i forgot. How do we know for sure that there were 3 "bundles" individually "packaged". As opposed to three or five individual packets bundled together by bands or other fashion. Where/what is the primary source for this information? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Jo. Chill. 1st - the post was not about you - I was merely giving a short, brief, bio of the thread on it's 12 year anniversary. In reading the original original thread, I was exquisitely (thanks, Farf) pleased that you have not changed your posting m.o., i.e, getting lost, things going poof, you were sickly then too, and bemoaning the hand that life had dealt in regards to finding the truth about Weber. In short, nothing's changed. So I referenced that short, brief fact - that the second original thread was started because you "got lost" trying to find where to post on the original Cooper thread. 2nd: What the post was about: I made the obvious observation that if someone had buried some money back when the thread first started we would be able to see the condition of it today. That would have been a cool experiment, but alas........... 3rd: The video I linked to (completely tongue in cheek) was "Wasted Days and Wasted nights". A pretty cool song btw, sung by Freddy Fender - No relation to Duane Weber, though Fender was in Angola Prison for a couple of years and was pardoned by Gov. Jimmy Davis, of "You Are My Sunshine" fame. 4th: The other video was the Motown hit "Money, That's What I Want" as performed by a groovy young band called the "Beatles", though some think that the better version of the song was that of Barrett Strong, a singer/songwriter who wrote some of the best tunes to come out of Motown. I'm kind of partial to his version too, but I love to watch old Ed Sullivan vids of the Beatles early days when it was still new and fresh and fun and just making music. 5th and Final: Life is too short for dialup. A straight DSL line is $39.99/month minus what you currently pay for dialup. That's less than a carton of cigarettes. With all due respect, I do confess that I don't pay a whole lot of attention to your posts anymore because you tend to ramble and you try to make connections with every random piece of information that comes along. But the fact is that I'm one of the few people around here who hasn't written you off as a "crazy old woman" (Your words - not mine). If that even matters to you, don't screw it up by being a b...mean.

....... Since I don't really get the repacking, inspecting date thing since none of the dates on the card look like it received regular inspections/repacking - Are you are saying the parachute was out of date and would the days out have given him pause? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Happy 12th Anniversary Trivial pursuit time: Keeping it simple ala FF, I did a quick search for "Cooper" just in the skydiving History & trivia forum. The first mention of Cooper, DB Cooper, was Nov 3, 2000 in a post by jtval. That thread meandered along with relatively few posts a year until it was revived Jan 28 2006 by Orange1. There were other familiar posters on that original thread also, including Skyjack. She first posted to that thread on Nov 12, 2006 about Duane, then she started a new thread (the 68 page one preceding this one) Nov 21, 2006 cause she "kept getting lost" trying to post. Why does it matter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUVgkXVDkBA What if someone had buried a bunch of banded dollars on Tina bar or vicinity when this discussion first started, or 6 years ago - or even later during all the discussions there have been about the buried money? Or did they? Hmmm. Bet not. Damn. I'm too stingy with my money to do it - plus my bugs, sand, and river water are probably different than those on the west coast

Jeez Blevins, where would we be without you. Lol...Farflung was right... there are mysteries greater than the Pyramids of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon and DB Cooper. But enough about you.... 377 might very well agree with you and he knows a lot more about jumping than you or I, but I don't believe he backed into the blast. Not sure that it adds anything to the equation whether he jumped forward, backed off or butt walked down those stairs - but I just don't believe that someone would give up the small measure of control (Control = looking to see what you are getting yourself into) that they do have in this particular situation by jumping out backwards. Especially with a load and especially if the exit was kind of cramped. Have you calculated how far down he would have had to go before his full weight opened the door to max? What about holding on to the sides? Where's the source that Flight 305 had no hydraulics in play? I'm sure you are referencing old posts but I can't find it. Backing out...gut instinct says no - not seeing it, but each to his own since we'll never know for sure.. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yeah I saw this too. Problem is he's got a bunch of different stories about where the money came from so who knows if it was buried. What is interesting, to me, is the word "petrified". According to articles, the Ingrams thought at first the money was driftwood. I know the official story but I've wondered (because of the seemingly uniform disintegration around the edges) if the Ingrams might have thrown it in the fire before they realized what it was. I can see fire burning around the edges like that, but surely recent burning would have been noticed by the FBI. I don't know about solving the case, but I definitely thought they could get more information from the money than they have. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Too cool. I had faith that someone would eventually take the simulation project on. Looking good! eta: I had to go here to see what Farflung was talking about re Sierra hotel....and I agree... http://www.tailhook.org/AVSLANG.htm but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Multnomah County Planning Commission Columbia River Yacht Club http://www.cryc.com/history.php McCuddy's Marina - I believe they did some development, moorage, etc 1979. Another potential avenue for info: Articles I'm seeing about yacht and marina developments make reference that the developments are contingent on gaining permits from Corp of Engineers in addition to those from planning commission. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm not into feeling pain, Farf; however I did have something from one of your earlier posts that i forgot to post in regards to this post of yours: Multnomah County Planning Commission Columbia River Yacht Club http://www.cryc.com/history.php McCuddy's Marina - I believe they did some development, moorage, etc 1979. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

This is probably old news but looks like Galen Cook has been busy with some investigatin so I guess we can still look forward to his book.... http://voices.yahoo.com/db-cooper-suspect-named-william-pratt-gossett-1518669.html See update under "Tina Bar Investigation" Basically PER THE SITE, the money arrived in 1979 and not by river current, he knows how it decomposed, and why the person got rid of the money. Course he's under a non-disclosure until his scientist does his paper....

Pictures of the Tina Bar area here.....includes a historical one of folks digging. I think Sluggo posted or referenced these in the past...Anyway..not gonna copy just sharing the link if anyone's interested.... http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM52N0_Legend_of_D_B_Cooper_Vancouver_Washington http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=470e386e-d07f-4922-92b7-ac230b74a820 but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The 'new lead' reference almost certainly means the titanium. I wasn't referencing interpretations, I was referencing an article with Tom Kaye and Tom Kaye's website. Many accounts of the money find from 1980 state that the "3 packages were bound together" but none say how. Were the three separate packages just stuck together or were they truly "bound" by something. Was there one band around 3 distinct packages or 3 separate bands around 3 separate packages that were each bound to each other? Was the money wet when found? If wet, did the Ingrams try to separate it, dry it out, clean it? Would that have any bearing on Kaye's conclusions? I guess not since it wasn't mentioned. What about the Crystal/Denise Ingram conflicting stories of who found the money - and additional bills turned in later? There were posts associated with this that alleged some of the money was blackened when originally found. Was that determined not to be the case? One article states that the money "looked like a piece of driftwood" - and had young Ingram offering it up to Dad as firewood before they realized what it was. Another article addresses further searches in the area found fragments and an FBI agent says he found a "fist-size clump of wadded up $20 bills". The problem with taking the statement you quote at face value is this: It doesn't take into account things that might account for different conclusions. I just think that for all the science there's still a lot of guessing going on. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill