smokin99

Yeah...for what it's worth. I've not been there in a while, but the last time I did there was not a lot of actual case files. Mainly a lot of newspaper clippings about the hijacking and stuff about the Fleming con. That site reminds me of looking at a pie and thinking, yum, yum, lemon meringue and then you bite into it and it's vanilla creme. What a downer. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Reposting to add pdf file on parachutes but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I stand by every word I wrote about your post on another site. I'm not gonna repeat what I said and I'm not going to discuss this anymore with you, but suffice to say, at best, it was tasteless, and.....as I said before....rationalize it all you want....but if you can't see that - I don't know what to tell you. As for Georger's remarks, you're right, they were also tasteless. As for not mentioning anything about it, to be be honest, I didn't even read it the first go round. I tend to slide over any comments between you and Georger on this site. They are usually 3rd grade, tit for tat, absolute and utter nonsense that is not worth the time or the effort to read. Yeah, Georger and some others need to chill out with their Blevins derangement syndrome, but also consider this: One day, maybe you ought to read your posts. Since you've said, more than once, that you consider yourself a nice guy, no doubt you would be amazed at the way you come across on this forum. But on this too...I figure that will be when hell freezes over cause guys like you just don't get it. I'm done with this. Carry on. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

To prove my point about attribution and how even the most basic facts can get turned around on their heads in this case...... The above posts were posted on Dec 17, 2007. Then on June 14, 2008, Ckret posts this...... Unless I'm reading posts wrong, this is a total contradiction by ckret of what he posted 6 months before. (Bold added by me) Jeez....this from someone on the INSIDE. No wonder reporters just go with what they have... And just scanning quickly, so far have found nothing to show that anyone on this thread challenged the inconsistent statement. Will keep reading and if I find differently, will post it. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

According to CKRET, Further reading: From CKRET: From Ckret to another poster: but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Did Cossey maintain all this or did it come from news reports? Just pulling up some archived news articles, I see a report that two of the chutes came from McChord AFB. My point being..... was it Cossey or inaccurate AP reports that just never got corrected? Or was he giving them the inaccurate info? I wonder if his assertion that he PACKED all four chutes just somehow got translated to he owned/delivered all of them or two of them and he just never called back to correct the matter. Not saying you're wrong -- maybe you've looked at all the articles that he's been quoted in to form your opinion. I will have to look at what he is actually attributed to having said versus what was "reported". According to CKRET, "Cossey actually packed all four chutes, the two back pack chutes were sold or given to the individual who sent them in the cab to Boeing field. Cossey also packed the reserve chutes, but they were provided not by Cossey but the owner of Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey discovered the mistake later on." Note from Smokin...From memory...I think the mistake referred to is the dummy chute, but I didn't read further at present time to confirm this. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

YEP! That was a GOOD one. Probably the OPERATOR - this one with NO computer training and dial-up connection. No, actually, I meant MY operator error. I cut and pasted, but somehow I typed an extra word in the middle of the link. Fingers faster than the brain. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

NP. Just not something I would have posted. You are right. It is sad and my heart goes out to his family and friends. Like I said, there are probably some folks registered on this site that know him personally. I do agree with Shutter that it would be useless to speculate on anything at this point. My fervent wish is that it is not connected even remotely to anything Cooper related. I want Cooper to stay in the spotlight, but not at the cost of someone's life. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

If you don't get all of the reasons why posting that was wrong, not the least of which is because you don't even know definitively that it was him, then I don't know what to tell you. And your rationalization is even worse. Posting a link to to your website to an article talking about people on this forum is a tribute to a person that was just killed?? Really?? It appears that you're either trying to insinuate yourself into an investigation, trying to gain your 15 mins, get internet traffic, or you're just totally clueless, tasteless, or mean. Or maybe you seriously need to take a break from this Cooper crap. I don't know Robert, maybe ask someone at AB Books whether your post was a good idea. Ask Gayla. Sometimes a pre-submit conference with someone that doesn't have a dog in the fight is a good idea. I hate to clue you, but a totally dispassionate person reading this forum might view you as one of those "nuts", so be careful of stone throwing, hon. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

That ARTICLE came down PRETTY fAST. It was available and now it is not! Time 5:05 Central time. Operator error, I suspect. . Let me try that again.... http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468172.php but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Well first of all, I can't find anywhere that is definitively saying it's him, but I agree with Shutter that it looks more likely than not. That said...... You know I have stayed away from your posts because at times it looks like people are piling on, but I really can't believe that you posted this on another website... "This is extremely sad. And although there could be any number of reasons why Cossey was killed, there are a few things you should know. First, I'm the guy who wrote a recent book on DB Cooper titled 'Into The Blast'. And during my research on this book, I discovered two things. First, Cossey's address and phone have been unlisted and publicly available at Dex Knows for years. Second, there are a lot of 'Cooper Nuts' out there. I know, I have met many of them either personally or on the internet. Cossey often spoke to people on the phone about Cooper, depending on his mood, but he was generally known as a nice guy. I would first check his phone records, see if any calls come from people known to be working on the Cooper case. My sincerest sympathies to the family. If you want to see what Cooperland is all about, see my article at Newsvine here:" http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2013/01/16/16519136-skyjacker-db-cooper-part-1-of-3-welcome-to-cooperland Really Blevins? I'm sorry, but sometimes I seriously wonder about some of you guys.. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Unless family, friends, or neighbors talk, looks like police will not be releasing identity until Monday......Another article.. http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468dropzone172.php sadly I think we can say with a 99.9% chance it's him...... Yes...I agree. Of course the caveat....looks like he did own some other property so it's possible he could have been renting to someone or someone else was living with him. And it would be like Cossey to give people time to speculate before setting the record straight

Unless family, friends, or neighbors talk, looks like police will not be releasing identity until Monday......Another article.. http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468dropzone172.php but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

This site is saying it's been ruled a homicide.... http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Sheriff-Woodinville-mans-death-ruled-a-homicide-205013021.html. Of course, events of the recent past have once again shown that you can't always rely on what you get via the media or on the internet... But. unfortunately looking like things are adding up to suggest it's him. Sad news. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

good interview Bruce. I'm undecided about PTSD -- On one hand you know, it can seem to be an easy out for bad behavior. On the other hand, I know a lot of guys who were seriously FU'd after Vietnam....and they damn sure were not like that when they went in. And of course, I hear the same can be said of guys that have come out of our current Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Anyway...good job...I hope Robb is doing okay. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm watching a documentary on TCM from 1989. "FOR ALL MANKIND". Just wanted to recommend it if anyone's interested and can catch it sometime. It's pretty fascinating. Blurbs From Wiki: The film provides 80 minutes of real NASA footage, taken on the Apollo missions of the 1960s and 1970s. The director made the film after learning that huge amounts of footage shot by astronauts had been archived by NASA without ever being seen by the public. Al Reinert and editor Susan Korda sifted through six million feet of film footage, and 80 hours of NASA interviews to create the documentary. ... the original mission footage is provided along with the voices of the astronauts, from interviews and from the actual mission recordings. ... although the documentary purports to show a single moon mission, it is in fact a collage of footage from all six successful Apollo lunar landing missions. Furthermore, some images are presented out of context: the images of rocket stage separation are test footage shot during earlier missions; a shot used to represent Trans Lunar Injection is in fact footage of a Gemini mission re-entry; and some images of a spacewalk are from an earlier Gemini mission, not Apollo. Also... among those providing narration are Jim Lovell, Michael Collins, Charles Conrad, Jack Swigert, and Ken Mattingly. Really neat the way they put this together... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Classic. I sure do miss Farflung. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Don't know who wrote that blurb, but it looks like a quick and dirty "summary" that relied less on accuracy and more on getting it done in xx number of words.

By "copycat" do you mean demanded a parachute or just hijacked a plane? A pm to Farflung or Snowmman would probably yield more results - they have had some posts about this in the past - but here are some names. Are they already on your list? I think all of these except one requested parachute(s). Charles La Point Richard McCoy Martin McNally Garrett Trapnell Robb Heady Thomas Michael Hannon Frederick Hahneman Heinrich Von George Billy Gene Hurst, Jr ETA - Robert Wilson Frank Sibley - not sure if he requested parachutes but his hijacking was interesting, to say the least. LOL...Bicycles and naked agents. Glen Kurt Tripp - From 1980, but I include him b/c article said he originally asked for parachute intending to mimic DB.) but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

This is a newsletter about the event (Coverage of event begins about page 8.) http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/12_fall_newsletter_web.pdf I thought the caption under the middle picture, second row was interesting. ......“D. B. Cooper ~ Dead or Alive. "This is probably the most authoritative book on the subject, a cooperative effort between Rataczak and the writer, Richard Tosaw. “I asked Mr. Nyrop if it was okay to do the book,” Rataczak recalls. “He said ‘okay, go ahead". but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Some more trivia about the set /location...scroll down to right below Robert Duval.

Did you know Treat Williams is a pilot too.... http://www.drawger.com/neubecker/?article_id=10550 Excerpt: When we got home, Treat took me flying in his T-6 Texan, a World War II combat trainer. We did loops, rolls and other aerobatics so I could get a feel for it. You sit on your parachute as a cushion and get the drill on how to pop the canopy and bail out if things go south. Throwing up is considered bad form. We buzzed the Wasatch Mountains so close you felt like you could reach out and touch the peaks. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I give up Robert, you are right and Greg Gasson - Aerial DP / Coordinator / Stuntman / World Champion Camera-flyer is totally wrong. I will direct all of my future questions to you, you know it all......thanks a bunch. P.S. The film was made in the 80's, way before the money hungry fools in Holywood today!!! 30+ years ago.... while we are at it, could you tell me how you came to this conclusion? do you have a baseline, or data to come to your conclusions? what exactly is your background in special effects? Have you seen this thread? - have to scroll down the page for the three pictures. Cools pics. I don't have time to repost them....... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3526534#3526534 but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill