smokin99

Blevins, you can't be serious about this. Because KC was a "nice guy" and "they couldn't imagine him doing such a thing", he is immediately suspected of being Cooper? Meantime, Duane Weber, a convicted felon who had spent decades in multiple prisons, is immediately dismissed as a Cooper possibility despite the zealous efforts of his widow, Jo Weber, to pin the hijacking on him. Is there some logic in the above that I have completely missed? Or is it just plain book salesmanship? Robert99 I'm always amazed at how little Kenny's friends knew or were interested in anything about the DB Cooper hijacking even though it was such an infamous crime, happened in their backyard, and everyone else in the Northwest apparently was talking about it and, of course they, themselves, remember exactly what they were doing the minute it happened, and who was where. I mean, did no one even think to question whether maybe, just maybe, the friend looked up DB Cooper on the internet before going to the television guy and changing her story about what kind of cigarettes KC smoked. What part of 15 mins of fame didn't they understand? Not saying anyone would bolster their story but these memory breakthroughs are pretty darn convenient. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Several things about the letters interest me though I am on the fence as to whether I believe they were all written by the same person or by the hijacker) In the Robinhood letter, the writer refers to the airline as "Northwest Orient" I know that this was the name advertised, but did local people refer to it by that name? Or just Northwest? or Northwest Airlines? In this letter, the writer also used more sophisticated vocabulary, sentence structure, punctuation and grammar than I would associate with a few of the known candidates or some of the other letters. He also talks / boasts of not being a boasting man and not leaving fingerprints. Do you think the writer was referring to McCoy? In at least one article referencing the playboy letter, the article's writer notes that the cutout letters came from magazine advertisements. I wonder if the Playboy connection was made back then. I wonder if there was any significance to the Grey Cup in Vancouver reference other than the obvious. I mean if he's just playing with folks why not "Hanging out at the Space Needle - enjoying the view" or "just toured the Boeing factory - bite me"? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Does it have wireless? Maybe she can hook a ride on her neighbor's network - get em back for all that nasty smoke. Ok....maybe not.... Seriously - Good offer Jo - take him up on it. You know if you don't this will just make us know that you like being a "woe-is-me-er". well, you can only grab the signal if it's not secure. most peeps lock them down now. My Mom had 2 people riding her signal for a long time before she found out. this was over 5 years ago. worth a shot though. Yeah, but I''ve been amazed at some people that I know - that should know better - that still don't have a secure network. I was at my husband's place of business one day and one of his long-time customers walked in and said I love this place -I can still get on the network as he proceeded to pull out his cell phone. Needless to say, and much to his chagrin, that was fixed before I left that day. And mrsmokin got an earful.

Does it have wireless? Maybe she can hook a ride on her neighbor's network - get em back for all that nasty smoke. Ok....maybe not.... Seriously - Good offer Jo - take him up on it. You know if you don't this will just make us know that you like being a "woe-is-me-er". but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm wondering the same thing. And are the results in? That's kind of how it sounds since the case is now solved since 6/13/13. From Greycop's previous post: I reserve the rights to solving this case, not simply bringing a suspect to the forefront. As of 6/12/2013 was claimed unsolved by you and the FBI. As of 6/13/2013 I Claim it to be solved by me Re: reserving rights. Is that just bragging rights or is there still a reward? Just curious - I think either the insurance company or NWA had one out there at one time - is it expired? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Welcome aboard, btw. I don't know...I'm no handwriting expert, for sure, but, going with the premise that the hijacker filled out the ticket rather than the ticket agent, I briefly looked at DAN vs VAN without magnification and I'm just not seeing the likeness at first glance. Slants, size, rounding looks different to me. Hopefully you will go into more detail.

I haven't. Have you? Is he still alive? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Not as good as a polaroid but better than nothing I suppose.

It was NOT known if it was the same tie, but was found between the seats, but NOT where Cooper was sitting. I have heard 4 hours or 4 days before the tie was submitted into evidence. THIS is why the 1990 bugged me...and to me should be investigated. If the tie WAS not submitted into evidence until 1990 where the hell was it - how Ti got on the tie - well where was it stored? And then to think all that money was spent to check the tie. Who found the tie and why did it take 4 days to submit it into evidence and WHY if it was not submitted until 1990 they even CONSIDERED it as evidence or allowed a team to take it apart to test. What the HELL is the FBI thinking or do they THINK? It seems LIKE the FBI is playing GAMES! NOW it really sound LIKE a cover-up for a group "Protect and do no Harm". First time I ever heard of the tie not being produced until 1990. The entire story about Cooper has become a farce - NO one will ever be able to separate the truths from the misnomers and out and out untruths. No Jo. What he said in the interview is that the public was not made aware of the tie until 3 or 4 years ago - that the FBI purposefully withheld the information. What I am saying now is this is not accurate.... The tie was made public at least in early 90s - 1991 - maybe before that but for sure then. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

ARE U SAYING THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS WHAT THEY ARE PUTTING ON A HISTORICAL SITE? THAT THE TIE INFORMATION WAS not PUBLIC UNTIL 1990's? IF this is TRUE then SOMEONE from this THREAD needs to go to WA and teach the HISTORICAL journalist about Truth and GETTING fact correct! The quote is from the pdf file of the interview. I was not able to listen to the actual interview. All I'm saying is that if someone is going to be hailed as an expert on Cooper evidence, accuracy is a good thing. And when stating conclusions, context is important. These things speak to credibility if nothing else. It appears from the interview that the chain of evidence concerning the tie is pretty much a certainty, therefore one would have to conclude that either the tie was labeled as his, or he was seen by witnesses with the tie / tie clip and the exact description of the one he wore matches the description of the tie left on the plane, or he was seen by witnesses with a non-descript black tie, then seen without a tie, and subsequently a non-descript tie is found on the plane. These are all plausible scenarios that lean to the side of certainty that yes the tie belonged to Cooper. I could live with any of them. All I'm asking is does anyone know for sure, even if only based on witness statement as above, that the tie left belonged to or was worn by Cooper? If not, then that deserves to be said before conclusions are offered. In the scheme of things, yeah -- what is the difference whether 1991 or 2011? Maybe none...Just saying that there are way too many myths involved with this case to begin with....... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Oops - left off my sources.... from: http://www.citizensleuths.com/washugal.html One of the deployed bundles had it's note recovered by a member of the public eighteen months after release (Fig. 2). The rubber bands and money had become separated from the tag and were not recovered. The tag was recovered in a shallow water area close to the mouth of the Columbia after traveling 5.5 miles (Fig. 3). The bundle did not survive the trip intact, suggesting that the rubber bands degraded and came loose over this time period which is considerably less than the 3-4 years required for the Washdown Theory. From http://collections.washingtonhistory.org/details.aspx?id=121233 And the most interesting thing to come out of that was D.B. Cooper’s tie. Now D.B. Cooper’s tie was left on the plane and the FBI never released that information. So until three, four years ago, this was completely unknown to the public. This is inaccurate - the tie information has been public for a long time at least since the 90s and maybe before that. This just makes it seem that it is a certainty that the tie was his. Just asking - is it a certainty? Does anyone know? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm having a lot of trouble downloading stuff from the historical site. Maybe it's having a lot of traffic. ' I've never changed my opinion on the citizen sleuth thing - While I greatly appreciate any work by anyone that advances the case from an evidentiary point of view, I still think that the "citizen sleuths" came to some arbitrary conclusions involving the evidence. It's almost like -- okay we're going to analyze all this stuff - but at the end of the day we're going to speculate on what it means. Maybe that was the intent - I guess that's a little better than trying to prove pre-conceived notions, but I was still a little disappointed because their conclusions are being given so much weight by some. For example, the fact that all that was left from the money they threw in the river was the tag is proof of nothing in relation to the viability of the rubber bands - so to discuss it in that context seems to be a little misleading. I've also always felt that any conclusions on the tie should be prefaced with "IF" it was his tie. Tom Kaye talks as if it is a certainty. Is it? And these are minor points - there were several others that we have discussed in the past. Lest I get flamed - I'm not saying that the exercise didn't have value, but realistically, at the end of the day, I'm not sure that the citizen sleuth exercise got anyone any closer to finding out who DB Cooper was or what happened to him. That said, I'm still glad they did it because, even if I'm not entirely sold on the speculative conclusions, the results themselves were interesting. So thanks to them for their hard work. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

More lawsuit talk?? Our resident attorney has given his opinion on lawsuits in the Cooper vortex many times......pretty much boils down to..(and I quote)... "This DBC squabbling would get laughed out of most courtooms. The judge would hold an off the record conference in his chambers and counsel would be told to "get this POS case off my GD docket." As the saying goes - I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on tv, but I would imagine the only Cooper-related thing that is protected is quoting from another manuscript without proper atrribution, or against the unauthorized printing of actual documents or photo IF they are used without one's permission. And, as much as those have been bandied about all over the web without previous lawsuits, I have my doubts about that. Short of plagarism, the "story" of DB, along with any speculation about candidates is pretty much in the public domain and out there for anyone that wants to write about it, I would imagine. As for Kenny, a lot of the facts about the case were obtained, discussed, and/or corrected here on a public forum before publication of a book so I would think it's petty late for anyone to go whining about someone else using it now. I agree with the other 99 - there should probably be a lot of shoring up of glass houses if one is about to throw stones. LOL...come on now...surely no one is being threatened with a lawsuit for speculating that Kenny was gay? lol... I'm pretty sure you can sue for anything if you have the money to waste, but again, I would suspect that the odds of a successful suit for defamation of a dead person would be a long shot. Not to mention - how is questioning whether someone is gay or not defamation? Welcome to 2013. Not to mention the irony of accusing someone of defaming a dead person who you've accused of being a criminal.

I don't even mind his opinions, but it is ironic when one posts.... "What makes you think you are smarter than Paul Soderlind and his NWA team, the Seattle and Portland FBI offices, and those ATC guys? All of whom had HOURS to prepare during 305's initial circling, landing, FBI stalling on the ground, and then (finally) a takeoff from SeaTac? This is laughable. "... and then proceeds to disagree with anything the FBI or NWA folks say if it doesn't fit in with Kenny Christiansen. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

You beat me to it. You know I don't dislike Blevins, but here's the thing you have to understand about him. He likes to cherry pick the evidence and then he forgets what he was for before he was against it. In short - he hasn't a clue. The real problem with his theory is not just on its face - it is that he continually obfuscates the issue while trying to validate it. But I would imagine that it gets awful tiring and confusing trying to defend what one says this week when it contradicts what you said a month ago. Does it bother Blevins that his argument has so many illogical facets? I doubt it - not trying to draw any parallels here by any means , but they say that people who have difficulty in recognizing their own incompetence also tend to have an inflated sense of self. Of course, someone who was a former mental health expert is probably aware of this - lol --unless it applies to him.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Well I'm a little late to the party since someone has already given you my source. But it's 9:35 pm- do you know where your thumbs are? Trust me on this. Unlike you, I don't put things in quotes unless I can show where I got it from. Which I usually include, btw. If I'm guessing, I say it. I don't make things up as I go along, and I don't cherry pick whatever I think will bolster my argument. Likewise if I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with saying it. I asked Robert99 what effect icing would have on the flight in light of the statement that I copied because I wanted to know the answer - not to try to one-up someone. Frankly RobertMBlevins, the only thing that has been proven one more time, is that your grade school hubris far outweighs your wiki-intellect. Dunning-Kruger on steroids, you might say. And, you know what - as much as you harp on others - you can also be a bully, a troll, and a horse's patoot. And that's all I've got to say about that.

Quote sorry to be late - Exactly as per yours above. The reference (pdf) can be found here: http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/12_fall_newsletter_web.pdf Ref #2: "_ "Rat reported icing and turbulence .... he described the flight as 'rough at times' saying he and Scott 'had their hands full through the Washington part of the flight' ..." (researcher) Quote You're welcome. Robt99 raises a very important question. There are no direct references to icing in the transcripts. There are many outside references. The transcripts were redacted. Was icing a fact redacted or made up, or true? I think that is Robt99's point and one worth answering. What were the criteria for editing the Transcript and who would do that? Is there an unedited version somewhere? Someone asked earlier who released the Transcripts first and where did they get their copy? The Seattle PI is somewhere in this loop. Lots of questions - Seattle PI is where I first saw it, I think. But I have no idea whether Sluggo had it before they did. So we have transcripts that are incomplete and/or redacted vs multiple eyewitness memory accounts, 30- 40 yrs later, from people who were in the cockpit flying the plane. Ahhhh...the Cooper merry go round.

Uhhhhh really DUUUUUDE???? You know, usually I'm pretty polite. Usually. But I've had to sit here and *virtually* listen to one unnecessary insult after another. Much of it based on litlle or nothing. So, whether I was right or wrong about the icing, I decided it was time for someone else to understand what that is like. Nobody enjoyed reading that, did they? Nobody thought it was a 'good post', did they? And they would be right. Doesn't feel that great sometimes when the shoe is on the other foot... Shoe on the other foot??? I did not insult you - I wasn't even commenting to you. I was asking a logical question of Robert99. You know, I have defended you in the past on this forum when I thought you were being ganged up on. The problem is, like it or not, sometimes you bring it upon yourself. Case in point - whereas a polite person would apologize and move on - or just not comment any further, you make an excuse for your bad behavior and blame it on others. You do beat all. As for the icing, I merely posted what is quoted from Rataczak's talk at NW History center.... and then asked a question which stemmed from it. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't need, want, or ask for your conclusions. From Rataczak: At 10,000 feet out of Seattle there was a cloud layer, causing icing to occur on the aircraft. We were flying what we call a “dirty airplane” with flaps and gear down. We were unpressurized. We had another problem besides Cooper. Icing." As you are fond of telling others - if you want to know further information about the subject - his contact information is listed on the world wide web. Give him a call. Or have Porteous do it. Have a nice night. I'm really through discussing this with you. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Well I'm a little late to the party since someone has already given you my source. But it's 9:35 pm- do you know where your thumbs are? Trust me on this. Unlike you, I don't put things in quotes unless I can show where I got it from. Which I usually include, btw. If I'm guessing, I say it. I don't make things up as I go along, and I don't cherry pick whatever I think will bolster my argument. Likewise if I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with saying it. I asked Robert99 what effect icing would have on the flight in light of the statement that I copied because I wanted to know the answer - not to try to one-up someone. Frankly RobertMBlevins, the only thing that has been proven one more time, is that your grade school hubris far outweighs your wiki-intellect. Dunning-Kruger on steroids, you might say. And, you know what - as much as you harp on others - you can also be a bully, a troll, and a horse's patoot. And that's all I've got to say about that.

Just curious. Does anyone know when the transcripts were released to public? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm not disagreeing......yet .... just asking. What would the effects of icing on the aircraft be in relation to this particular flight? From Ratacsak: At 10,000 feet out of Seattle there was a cloud layer, causing icing to occur on the aircraft. We were flying what we call a “dirty airplane” with flaps and gear down. We were unpressurized. We had another problem besides Cooper. Icing." but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Odd indeed. Anyone care to guess why the redactions were made? 377 I would say a lot depends on which entity did the redacting. NW was clearly running the show - at least up until the time he jumped and, I've heard, even afterwards - as least as far as access to the employees was concerned. But that part is just rumor. I've often wondered if NWA was forthcoming with all the info to the FBI - esp in light of the concerns about insurance, liability, publicity. No reason to think that they didn't other than idle speculaton, and maybe these concerns weren't as prevalent in 70s as they would be now, but I would imagine that Nyrop would be looking at all the angles. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm thinking she would have noticed boots as opposed to shoes, also. Plus, the boots here http://qmfashion.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/paratrooper-jump-boots-americas-first-symbol-of-eliteness-and-fashions-most-experienced-boot/ don't seem to be that elevated. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I might be wrong, but seems like I remember that cattle or cows grazed the Fazio property. Would that be significant to your question? Yeah, the Aliens got 'em in '91. Don't you read the Mountain News, girl...pass that bottle of wine, will you please. Some of us are getting thirsty tonight. Yeah...I started to add ......"right before they were mutilated by aliens, but that's neither here nor there"......but I decided to respect the seriousness of the question. Okay...not really ---you just beat me to it.