smokin99

You are correct. But he paid off the note in 1972. I wonder how he managed that? It's a mystery for sure. Blevins, If you have read at least some of the posts on this thread, then you surely know that airline cockpit and cabin crews are only permitted to fly a certain number of hours each month. In the post WW2 era, it was about 80 hours per month. For personnel working long haul international routes, such as KC was doing, their permissible flight time could easily be met in 10 to 14 days. This means that KC probably had 2 or 2.5 weeks of time away from NWA each month to pursue other money making ventures. Who knows what KC was doing during his free time from NWA? But he could have been in Las Vegas gambling, working on a fishing boat, smuggling people from south of the border, or taking care of his coin collection (or whatever it was) and making wise investments. Do you have copies of KC's income tax returns for the entire period of time that you are talking about? If you claim you do, then explain why he kept copies of his tax returns for 30+ years, which is about 10 times the recommended time to keep those returns. You simply have not produced anything of significance to support your claim that KC's money came from the hijacking. Robert99 Nothing has actually been produced that says that Kenny even had a lot of extra money during that time period. And his money at his death can be explained by his sale of the land in bought in 1961. There is nothing on the deed of the bonney lake property that indicates that it was a cash transaction, quite the opposite, in fact, there is reference to an existing mortgage/promissory note that KC will be responsible for. So there would have to be other documents that show that this mortgage was paid off if that happened. Like I said it's all about discussing the data. That's all I'm interested in. In other news, I see there is another fictionalized novel out about KC if anyone gets into those. I think the author is a Georgia boy. http://www.prweb.com/releases/RichardKavanaugh/DiaryofaHijacker/prweb11154761.htm but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

You are correct. But he paid off the note in 1972. I wonder how he managed that? It's a mystery for sure. I know I'm correct. But you'll have to prove he paid off the note in 72. lol....which you can't.... so yep, it's a mystery for sure. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Word play. Double speak. I'm not interested in your drama or your pdfs. That is your obsession. And I suspect that you play into it. Really - like the drama that you constantly play out with Georger after saying that you are going to ignore his posts. I tried to voice my opinion that everyone is sick of the back and forth between you two but it just continues so now I could not care less. Like Greycops ramblings, I skip right on past. YOU wrote the book about KC. You, not Geoff Gray. Why in the world would you write a book citing things as fact and then not have the chumps to back it up with the data. Say what - You just put it out there so other people can check it out? Did you really say that? No you didn't - you said that you were 98% sure that KC was DB Cooper. You wrote about deeds and money as if you had seen the documents and the receipts. So...You either have the goods to back up what you wrote about or you don't. Obviously you don't. So never mind...it's just another fairy tale. You do understand that this is a public forum, and there's a thing called 'The Internet' these days? I'm a big believer in manners. Most people, when they have questions, have the courtesy to identify themselves and contact me privately. Otherwise, I'm not interested in either your problems or your questions. I'm not trying to be mean, but your pathetic efforts to 'call me out publicly' just don't work with me. There is a certain decorum, and call me old-fashioned, but I believe in it. Did you shoot off an email to Geoff Gray on how he knows Kenny bought his house for cash? Just wondering. You really should, you know. lol..if I want to know I can get the information myself. That was never the issue. You put out your theories and "facts" on a public forum - why would you not back them with proof in public. Hmmm. such a smart response. Now I'm enlightened. You put all your questions about everything on the forum. You call out Bruce and Galen and Cossey and the FBI and many many others on this forum and yet you talk about courtesy and decorum. Now I've heard everything. Pathetic. Yeah, I guess that's what I am. Jeez. I'm all broke up about it too. lol....Never mind. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm not going back to keep reading what you edit anymore, but it was 30 years. Kenny Christiansen bought the lots in 1961 and sold them in 1992. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Word play. Double speak. I'm not interested in your drama or your pdfs. That is your obsession. And I suspect that you play into it. Really - like the drama that you constantly play out with Georger after saying that you are going to ignore his posts. I tried to voice my opinion that everyone is sick of the back and forth between you two but it just continues so now I could not care less. Like Greycops ramblings, I skip right on past. YOU wrote the book about KC. You, not Geoff Gray. Why in the world would you write a book citing things as fact and then not have the chumps to back it up with the data. Say what - You just put it out there so other people can check it out? Did you really say that? No you didn't - you said that you were 98% sure that KC was DB Cooper. You wrote about deeds and money as if you had seen the documents and the receipts. So...You either have the goods to back up what you wrote about or you don't. Obviously you don't. So never mind...it's just another fairy tale. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

You know what..that's always your answer when you can't deliver the goods that you report on.

You know what..that's always your answer when you can't deliver the goods that you report on.

Unfortunately, Skyjack, the most that I've been able to go back (without spending money - which I'm not gonna do :) is to Joe and Ann Grimes selling it to Kenny. I've not seen any proof presented, however, that this was a cash transaction. As a matter of fact, the deed presented was probably not cash as the deed says that it is subject to an American Savings and Loan mortgage and promissory note that the Grantee (Christiansen) agrees to pay. Blevins has stated that the second lot was sold for $10.00 but that was probably just the familiar wording that we see on a lot of deeds. They usually say for $10.00 and "other consideration". Just a shorthand to show that it is a something for something transaction. Usually, if there is a tax stamp, the amount of tax on the deed gives you a cluse as to how much the purchase price was if you know the tax rate. I doubt very much that it was a 10.00 purchase. Why does this matter? Well it shows me that maybe someone is unfamiliar with reading deeds - so maybe the original purchase wasn't a cash deal. Was the document a warranty deed or a trust deed or a quit claim deed? Has it ever been posted? Were there cash receipts or cash withdrawals noted on a bank statement? If so, when were corresponding deposits made? There is another discrepancy in Blevins data concerning the Bonney Lake property. For example he says that Kenny willed the house to Robin and Carolyn Powell, but that is not accurate. The property was deeded to Robin Powell, a single man. Robin might have married Carolyn later and then had her added to the title, but the original quit claim was just to Robin. The other lot was deeded to Kenneth McWilliams. Why does all of this make a difference? Again, it just goes to credibility - did Blevins ever see these deeds are is he going with what someone told him? Blevins also states that Carolyn told him that KC made other purchases after the hijacking - property behind the safeway. Did he see this deed? Though there may be more offline, I have not been able to find any additional land transactions other than the sale of that land that KC purchased in 1961. He made a lot of money on that transaction. Decoded didn't mention it and neither did Blevins. He makes a statement that the money KC left when he died was probably not the ransom money - but it was probably from the sale of land that was purchased with ransom money. Huh?? Nowhere does anyone mention the big sale of land that was actually purchased in 1961. Now it's possible that additional transactions are just not on-line. They would have to be ordered and I don't know if I care enough to do that. However, one would think that Blevins has copies and copies of these documents would have been including in the letter to the FBI. Seems kind of strange if they weren't. Of course it's possible that this stuff has been posted and I missed it. I'll keep looking if so. Regardless, that's why I find it hard to go on face value that the original Bonny Lake purchase was cash. Or that there was a promissory note for the 61 land purchase. Or that Kenny was giving out 5K loans. If the documentation from the 70s is there why not show it? Or has it been posted anywhere? Again this shouldn't be a big deal - the land documents are public record. Just like I tell you to post your stuff and get it over with - it's over 40 years for goodness sake.

I've tried to read your stuff, but frankly, I have to skip over your posts now. Trying to read them makes me dizzy. I'm not trying to be mean, but if you would use some basic punctuation, like periods and such, it would be so much easier to read. Plus, to be honest, the lack of readability makes it hard to take you seriously. As one who has purchased or read nearly all of what I consider to be legitimate books about the Cooper case (yeah I'm a sucker) I would never purchase your book if written in the same style. In responses to your posts, I've already mentioned some problems with your handwriting analysis, and you've never answered the questions about the ticket agent's handwriting samples (even though it is highly doubtful that Dan Cooper wrote his own name on the ticket), or the DNA, or other questions asked on here. Letters to FBI people, unfortunately, don't prove a whole lot. Many of your posts allude to facts? that just aren't even close. If Eng or other officials have corroborated your solving of the case, then prove that. Better yet, when are we going to hear this from them? According to you, it's been almost 4 months, right? I guess my point is if you want honest discourse you have to do the give and take thing. If you just want to sell a book, good luck. Otherwise, I did enjoy your videos that I watched showing the landscape of the area. You ought to do more of those.

I didn't assert anything so therefore have nothing to be right or wrong about. I'm merely presenting documents that you haven't and offering up an alternate scenario. But to address certain points: I did not say that YOU lied or made anything up. I merely said - which I repeat and stand by - that you have failed to disclose all of kenny's financial dealings that might otherwise explain his holdings. I also believe that you grasp for dubious dot connections. A fairly common malady amongst all you Cooper candidate pushers.

I still say there is a reasonable alternative for Kenny having money - and that is directly tied to his overseas flights, being involved with customs money, and his collections. Kenny was also able to buy property in the 60s - land that he held on to while supposedly struggling and digging ditches - and later sold for a whole lot of profit in 92. Which might explain his bank accounts and such. Then - (See attachment) Now - (click on this link) I don't know why...and I'm not just picking on Blevins -- but it seems like folks leave out a lot of inconvenient information when they want their guy to be Cooper.

This is an interview with Soderlind. Has nothing to do with Cooper, but I thought the section on the Turbulence Plot system, accompanying images, and it's usage by NW pilots was interesting. http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182945-1.html?redirected=1 MrShutter - you might also find this article interesting if you ever go into a death spira in your simulations. :) http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184306-1.html?redirected=1 but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Back to Cooper. I have a question for the skydivers. I know this has probably been answered before (tee hee) but, considering what kind of chute that Cooper had - what would he have had to do to make it out of a water landing? And how likely would it be that he could have? And would the particular body of water make a difference - say the lake vs the river? Most folks from the day say if he landed in the water he's a goner -- but then a lot said he wouldn't have made it period. And we know that he "could" have made it. So any thoughts? And I know the logical answer - I'm really looking for the logistics involved in coming down and surviving in possible rough waters. Like what do you have to unbuckle or take off, how would you keep from getting tangled, etc..... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

You know, that was a very good try. I actually enjoyed reading your post. A bit of bait, a challenge. But you know what? I'm not going to post up a thing on it. Why should I simply drop my cards on the table? I'll trust History Channel researchers, Crown Books editors and Geoffrey Gray, Porteous' organization, and all the letters home I have from KC. I'd rather let others try to prove Kenny never served as has been presented. As far as the Palmer Report, this is what happened: I sent out personal letters about it to the appropriate folks whom I thought would know about it, or had a copy. Then over a year later, someone mails it to me. I get stuff in Manila envelopes from a lot from people. Mostly they are unsolicited manuscripts, which we do not accept. I read it. I didn't see the significance of it (booooring) and had not a clue that it was not freely available. Come on, it's supposed to be a Basic Cooper Thing. I thought every Cooper Investigator had access. It was sent to us by a Palmer family member. Who? Which one? Not a chance. There are trust issues around here. Someone on this thread whined about the doc and said stuff about copyright violations. I had Greg shred it the following morning. It meant nothing to me. Later, I was told no one else has a copy. My suggestion is to go to the source if you want one. ...yeah....right....okay..whateever..lol....me thinks thou doth protest too much...

Nearly 50,000 posts and 2,000,000 views and you're just now figuring that out??!! I think you both might have a point there. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

In Geoff Gray's unmasking DB article he states "Kenny trained with 11th Airborne Division, the Angels, which had been sent to the Pacific. But he never saw combat. When he was finally deployed, on August 16, 1945, his discharge papers show, the war was over. He ended up in Japan, joining the initial occupation forces". I've looked up 11th airborne rosters before but have never found KC's name. As far as I know, proof that he was a paratrooper has never been presented though it's been asked since the beginning. I've never thought about it before, but that is kind of odd. Georger said he would post more info on his stuff when he got it - I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't we can string him up by his toes then. But, seriously, why should what others do matter? This tit for tat is just silly. I have no reason to believe he wasn't a paratrooper, but there's no privacy reason not to post it - I mean you can get his social security number and army number off of Geoff Gray's article or SSDI. His basic service info is available on line so why play games - this is not nebulous somebody said he said, she said - KC either was a paratrooper or he wasn't. And there should be a paper trail. End of story. I don't know....regardless of what other people do, after the fiasco with the soldier pictures that were supposed to be of Kenny that Lyle sent I'd be wanting proof if I didn't have it. But that's just me... Who knows...maybe it went the way of the Palmer report....

Robert M. - Even if you had grounds to complain, I don't think Bruce's statement that KC's relationship to teenage boys was "troubling" is an issue. Take Michael Jackson. Michael was acquitted of the pedophilia charge. I agreed with that. I felt Michael Jackson never grew up and was just having the kind of sleep over a kid would have. So, I believe Michael Jackson was innocent. Now, if someone asked me if I thought he relationship with those children was troubling,I'd have to say yes. I don't think Bruce accused KC of anything. I agree with Mr. Shutter that is a little odd that the person who published a book accusing someone of kidnapping and air piracy would be the one complaining about this. My point exactly. Good analogy. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Robert - What part of the quotes excerpted from from Geoff Gray's article are you having a hard time understanding? The part that says "troubled kids and runaways" or the part about life there being "odd", or the parts about Kenny giving teenagers gifts and money, or the part where someone says he felt uncomfortable there? "Driving around town, she’d sometimes see him with younger men in front of his house, scrubbing down a car with soap or working under the hood. The rumors she heard about him were true: He was taking in troubled kids and runaways. One, she heard, he found sleeping in the town laundromat. Another kid was Kenneth McWilliams, or Mac, who lived with Kenny off and on for twenty years. “He was an amusing character,” McWilliams says now of Kenny. He describes life in the house as “odd.” There were always other men around, men from the Army whom Kenny knew and had relationships with. “It was uncomfortable to me, because I’m not like that, but not everybody lived in that house at night,” McWilliams says. Living there as a teenager was also liberating. When Kenny came back from Japan or Germany, there were always gifts: expensive food, big bottles of aged sake, ceramic dolls. Kenny never held back financially." As I've said before - In the 70s, 80s, and 90s, the mother of a young teenage runaway might easily think an older gay man who was "always having other men around" with whom he was "having relationships", giving her teenage son gifts, money, and a place to stay a little "troubling". You can parse it all you want - but the question is not whether Kenny is guilty of anything other than being a nice guy to kids in need - the question is what Geoff Gray wrote and what a reasonable person might infer from his writing. You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

This has been posted for a while, so everyone has probably already seen it - but I thought was interesting video. Not endorsing the premise or accuracy - just like those that focus on the area/landscape and alternate possibilities.

That special blend of 75% cotton and 25% linen must be difficult to find........but doesn't stop folks from trying.... http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/ff_counterfeiter/3/ http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?p=3313422

Yeah - you're right. In my defense, I had to address "shoot from the hip" quotes that I suspect are totally inaccurate and misleading, such as quoting from a UK document when discussing US patient disclosure rules. As to reason for death - I agree with Blevins that cause of death -on its face - has nothing to do with cooper. What I'm reading into the whole issue (and I think Blevins doesn't get) is that some feel that Blevins either skipped this part of KC life or barely mentioned it and this omission impacts on the integrity and completeness of Blevin's storyline (in other words - smacks of intellectual/literary dishonesty). And as to lawsuits..I keep thinking, maybe, one day, Blevins might actually read the posts, realize the obvious, and stop this silly nonsense. Hmmmm....okay......I get your point

I'm pretty sure they won't get anywhere. The only thing Blevins has rights to in this particular non-fiction case is actual pictures, documents, and his manuscript - if he owns them and they are used without his permission. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas (just the way they are expressed), titles, names, short phrases. Now I'm not saying that there might not be exclusionary situations but, using the basic facts that I could collect on my own, I'm pretty sure I could write a book about Kenny tomorrow if I wanted. btw......I don't.

Here is a better one ;) Well I now know why Tina went into a convent.

Well, I don't think I was bickering back there. lol...why did you think I was talking about you? lol....okay.....maybe it was a chicken that thought it was a duck.

lol...okay...I challenge you to answer the yes or no questions I asked. Just like you challenged R99 to answer your questions. So far all you've given is contradictory statements about the FBI. One minute all we have to do is call them and Curtis will tell us that you solved the case in June and the DNA has met its match, -- and the next looks like you still need 15 mins with him to make your case. Me head is spinning. I'm thinking we can safely gather that there have been no positive findings with the DNA or the handwriting, the CNN truck is not outside your house, and the FBI is not about to hold a press conference. But I'm curious - what in the world would you need to speak to your attorney about? If you've got proof positive put it out or write your book. I don't see anyone getting a reward or making serious dollars if you solve the case so what's the suspense and the lawyer talk for? What was the Paulsen joke - crap or get off the pot. If you don't have FBI backing you've accomplished no more than anyone else who's got a favorite suspect and written a book. There will be a little publicity - then it's over. I hate to be the bearer of reality, but a whole lot of people either don't know or could not care less about DB Cooper. It's that "oh yeah, that's interesting", then back to watching American Idol. Limited pool of dollars and it's diluted everytime someone writes a book. So yeah - my challenge is just answer the questions. If you want to pay an attorney first - that's okay too.