smokin99

Thanksgiving at that time in Nov is a US only date,,, a foreigner would not recognize it, Don't you think a personal document with fingerprints and possible DNA would work. after this amount of time has passed that is all we can do, . I have tried to track him back in the 1970-72 time frame and I just can't confirm anything,, too much time has passed. Everyone is dead. His culture was primarily french... I have spent hours and hours translating french documents.. I do have copies of his handwriting in english and in french. My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,, .. So far you have posed several 'what-ifs'. What-if Custer had been a transvestite? Would the women have poked out his ear drums to clarify his hearing ability ... in the next world reincarnation? Do you eat buffalo? What-if ? What-if Tom Kaye's particles are a plant!? sure that is how you get to a suspect, especially 42 years later, what-ifs.. it is a long shot,, narrow the pool.. so, what-if the prints and DNA from my suspect match the hijacker and I don't pursue it for fear of being wrong,,, this is the type of thing that will (could) eventually break this... has any foreign suspect ever been identified?? ... I would imagine so, but that is a guess. The number of people they have investigated is pretty high -- or so I've read. We just talk about the ones (investigated or not) that have been made high profile through books or net gossip. As far as I know all of the familiar ones are American - though again I can't say that with 100% certainty. Edited to add - ckret dismissed the idea of cooper being Canadian once on the forum. But he did it as kind of a joke, as in "Canadian - no they are too nice". But I don't know if being a foreigner was instant disqualification in the day. Or how much ckret knew about all of the different suspects. He was always big on saying that he was not re-investigating the case - just presenting what he had found. So it's possible, I guess that he was only interested in the facts of the case and not all of the particulars of everyone who had ever been investigated. I get your quandry - you want to have enough to give them to break through their profile mindset so they will use their resources to vet him. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

That we know of. Some of us in Cooperville hold out hope that the FBI is holding something back. You know, like the FBI guys do on tv. Larry Carr almost alluded to this in his interview...but his answer kind of meandered off and he did not commit. Oh, no. You ARE on the right path with this assumption. This is standard practice, to hold a couple of important details from the public. Reason of course is to help establish the validity of a suspect later. For example (oh, no...here he goes again... ) if the Seattle FBI were to bring in Helen Jones, her daughter, Mrs. Geestman, Dawn Andrusko (Bernie's sister) and Carolyn Tyner...and questioned them with Bernie Geestman in the next room...and it turned out that Mr Geestman tried to confess to his knowledge on a certain hijacking...that the FBI would ask him questions only someone who was involved would know the answers to. Ah...he never will, and THEY never will I think. Yes i realize they do this...or so they say. But I'm actually thinking more along the lines of definitive evidence. All Bernie has to say (lol..or let his lawyer say for him) is "I don't know what in the hell you're talking about". Then sit back and let them prove it. Not that they couldn't come close to ruling someone out or have someone with a greater than usual probability, but just my opinion - I do not believe the FBI will consider this case closed without some type of positive forensic evidence. Something along the lines of fingerprints, dna, or being in possession of a piece of evidence. He says, she says - again, just my opinion, but add to that a lack of documentation that backs up the circumstantial -- I just don't think anything that your witnesses have said would be enough evidence to indict, let alone convict someone. But I could be wrong.... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Looks like one without a serial number.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JKbhPdo-ZY but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

That we know of. Some of us in Cooperville hold out hope that the FBI is holding something back. You know, like the FBI guys do on tv. Larry Carr almost alluded to this in his interview...but his answer kind of meandered off and he did not commit. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Checking the articles, I think it's obvious why they never found him and perhaps what happened. It was -30 degrees Celsius on takeoff and there are several just HUGE lakes between the Thompson airport and Winnepeg. Possible cause of crash: Icing. Possible location of aircraft: Bottom of one of the lakes. Why use Occam logic when a conspiracy theory is possible? Bottom of a lake is so less interesting than the dark side of the moon. 377 Have you read the book Hatchet? Good one. Pilot in that same area of Canada has a heart attack and dies at the controls. 13-year-old boy with him just keeps on going until the plane runs out of gas and crashes into a lake. I think my son had to read that in school...The kid has to survive in the wilderness for a while. Seems like I remember having to read parts of it to help with a book report - probably the night before it was due. I remember being glad it wasn't one of those really long and tedious ones. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Checking the articles, I think it's obvious why they never found him and perhaps what happened. It was -30 degrees Celsius on takeoff and there are several just HUGE lakes between the Thompson airport and Winnepeg. Possible cause of crash: Icing. Possible location of aircraft: Bottom of one of the lakes. Why use Occam logic when a conspiracy theory is possible? Bottom of a lake is so less interesting than the dark side of the moon. 377 Have you read the book Hatchet? Good one. Pilot in that same area of Canada has a heart attack and dies at the controls. 13-year-old boy with him just keeps on going until the plane runs out of gas and crashes into a lake. Jeez...who said anything about a conspiracy theory? I merely pointed out that guys can go missing - whether on mountains or or ground or in lakes - and never be found. I was answering you a bit sarcastically with tongue in cheek because I really did not ask how or why. I assumed that would be kind of sorta obvious. Yes, there are several things that could increase the odds of not finding a body or a plane - and, yes, crashing in a body of water is one of them. Lol....Now, that we've got that all straightened out... Occam who?

Thanksgiving at that time in Nov is a US only date,,, a foreigner would not recognize it, Don't you think a personal document with fingerprints and possible DNA would work. after this amount of time has passed that is all we can do, . I have tried to track him back in the 1970-72 time frame and I just can't confirm anything,, too much time has passed. Everyone is dead. His culture was primarily french... I have spent hours and hours translating french documents.. I do have copies of his handwriting in english and in french. My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,, .. Some people put a lot of stock in indirect witness statements (meaning someone not a direct witness to the hijacking) because that is a high proportion of what they have. Unfortunately, that leads to stuff like wigs, and comics on the wall, different people claiming that their guy owned a tie clasp just like Cooper's, and other anecdotal stories that are unable to be proven (or not). If you have fingerprints and dna, and you also have the coincidental stuff, why not just take it to the FBI? Unless I'm missing something, that would be the ultimate verification. Yes I know the various issues with the dna and fingerprint evidence that some have brought up, but short of pulling a twenty or other tangible evidence out of his safety deposit box there is no other way that is not circumstantial. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Checking the articles, I think it's obvious why they never found him and perhaps what happened. It was -30 degrees Celsius on takeoff and there are several just HUGE lakes between the Thompson airport and Winnepeg. Possible cause of crash: Icing. Possible location of aircraft: Bottom of one of the lakes. Well, heck, all of us can't be clairvoyant forensic aviation experts. lol....as duly noted in my intro....my point is here's another guy been missing for 40 years with no trace.......and your point is....?

This married father of two has been missing since Dec 1971 along with his plane...... AND even though the description is interesting - I'm not trying to connect this guy to Cooper - just another post showing that it's not impossible for bodies and planes or parachutes to disappear. http://doenetwork.org/cases/3549dmmb.html http://www.thompsoncitizen.net/article/20121207/THOMPSON0107/312079998/-1/thompson/the-case-of-the-missing-aviator-winnipeg-engineer-jim-macdonald but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

And one could be from another country and not have an accent..... Using Canada as an example.....I just looked at a list of famous Canadians - many of whom you would never know are not American born and bred without knowing their bios. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

That would be so cool if the real DBC had gleaned the idea for the crime from this comic. Snowmman, who I believe first surfaced the comics issue, would be pursued by the press if they could ever figure out who he is. Carol "Abracadabra" would be a guest on late night shows. Her symposium presentation on the comics was just superb. How would you prove your suspect had read Dan Cooper comics? 377 Not trying to take anything away from anyone, but ...a reference to the comic in relation to the hijacking first surfaced in a Portland Oregon newspaper editorial in 1982. Would attach but it's on another computer - but I've posted the article on here before. Now whether the FBI ran with the connection then is anyone's guess. They didn't publicize it if they did. I'm pretty sure that I also saw the connection on another website before it was posted on dropzone but the connection did not appear as a "FBI sponsored official" theory until after Carr was on dropzone and it was posted by snowmman. The forces just had to align.

I hope not...he could put his eye out... Sorry the Christmas Story marathon is running on an ignored tv. I couldn't help myself. Some folks are quite convinced that the "bomb" was flares - but I don't think anyone can be sure of that. Himmelsbach or someone based this on the "fact" that dynamite wouldn't be red, but we've disproved that "fact" on this thread courtesy of the wonderful world wide web. Dynamite, we found, is produced in various colors. I base the bomb being fake with the 70's & not today's standards. even McCoy's grenade was a fake. since this had no Political reasons it gives me more of a percentage of the bluff thingy. much different thoughts back then. today, they shoot and ask questions later. Yes and it also fits in better with the vision of DB Cooper being a gentleman bandit. But it's just a guess. Though I'm not sure it really matters after the fact if it was a fake or not if the people on the plane think that some ahole has a bomb and is threatening to blow them up at 10,000 in the air.

Kind of off the subject but I read an article recently, an interview with Earl Milne, who was head of the Seattle office. thought i would share. We always hear that the FBI didn't think he made it - but not according to this article. Milne thought DB got away with it and cited the following as why (Daily Chronicle May 5, 1976): 1. A Boeing 727, which Cooper commandeered, is one of the safest planes to jump from. 2. The area over which Cooper jumped, between Woodland and Vancouver, features wide open spaces, ideal for parachute landings. 3. A 20 mph wind was blowing that night at 7,500 feet but no wind was blowing at ground level and visibility was excellent. Still, how did Cooper get away from the scene once he had landed? Milnes said he didn't know, but added, "It wouldn't be very difficult (for Cooper) to just go home and go to bed." but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I hope not...he could put his eye out... Sorry the Christmas Story marathon is running on an ignored tv. I couldn't help myself. Some folks are quite convinced that the "bomb" was flares - but I don't think anyone can be sure of that. Himmelsbach or someone based this on the "fact" that dynamite wouldn't be red, but we've disproved that "fact" on this thread courtesy of the wonderful world wide web. Dynamite, we found, is produced in various colors. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

A noticeable foreign accent might also eliminate him. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Unfortunately, I believe the Kaye team had a problem with jumping to conclusions in some of their interpretations. I think we also found that these ingredients are also found in fireworks, flares, makeup, and fingerprint powder. Not to mention the various sources that the individual ingredients could have originated from. I think there were more sources for the combination ingredients brought up - the list above is from memory. maybe paint was one?? i don't remember and I'm too lazy right now to do a full search on the forum.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are getting at. "a direct link to a "Dan Cooper" and a picture with a "Dan Cooper". Do you mean a real person named Dan Cooper or one of the other "dan Cooper" candidates, or just an adventurous type individual? There is a "Dan Cooper" confirmed to be in the picture... and this picture is confirmed to be linked to my suspect. I assume he used the name from this individual.. if he was the hijacker btw, the picture has a position marked on it, looks like a small square and a squiggly line?? I don't know what this means, if anything,, Okay...now that's intriguing. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Unfortunately, I believe the Kaye team had a problem with jumping to conclusions in some of their interpretations. I think we also found that these ingredients are also found in fireworks, flares, makeup, and fingerprint powder. Not to mention the various sources that the individual ingredients could have originated from. I think there were more sources for the combination ingredients brought up - the list above is from memory. maybe paint was one?? i don't remember and I'm too lazy right now to do a full search on the forum.

This is just my opinion, but the only problem with having someone look at blended pictures is just about every candidate ends up looking like the composite when you blend. Someone has shown this at some point along the way. Just curious, but why not just show him privately the picture of the guy without superimposing it over the composite drawing? If he would be willing to look at it, he seems like a person who would be discreet. Just from what I've read, he's pretty low key about all of this. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are getting at. "a direct link to a "Dan Cooper" and a picture with a "Dan Cooper". Do you mean a real person named Dan Cooper or one of the other "dan Cooper" candidates, or just an adventurous type individual? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Unfortunately, I believe the Kaye team had a problem with jumping to conclusions in some of their interpretations. I think we also found that these ingredients are also found in fireworks, flares, makeup, and fingerprint powder. Not to mention the various sources that the individual ingredients could have originated from. I think there were more sources for the combination ingredients brought up - the list above is from memory. maybe paint was one?? i don't remember and I'm too lazy right now to do a full search on the forum.

On the other hand, I've always wondered about the level of detail that the con men had in the interview, presumably before some of it became public knowledge. They didn't have it all correct, but there were some things in the interview that correspond to transcript and recent info that I've never found in other articles of the day. So where did they get their info? As a journalist, Fleming could have been in a position to know some of those details - maybe even a source in the FBI. And he was under a lot of pressure to succeed. hmmm but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

that would be correct. the FBI has them in the FBI vault thingy on there site showing the fake bills. Fleming was seriously affected emotionally from this episode. He actual had a nervous breakdown over it. A few years ago, he had recovered enough that he told Porteous he would talk about the incident. Then Fleming's wife stepped in at the last minute and said 'no way'. He went through a period of depression, but he had recovered and was back in journalism by the late 70s, I believe. (I read his memoir but I don't still have the copy). I think that he was humiliated, plus many were undecided on whether he was the scammed or the scammer in trying to get the new magazine off the ground. My opinion - he was legit - just got too excited by the "scoop" and got sloppy. His memoir is actually very interesting. He covered (on the front line) some volatile times in our history. Edited to add a detailed obit from LA Times... http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/12/local/la-me-karl-fleming-20120812 but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

that would be correct. the FBI has them in the FBI vault thingy on there site showing the fake bills. And a couple of other miscellaneous fyi points about the serial numbers from recent posts that might need clarification if one is inclined to dig further. Sources for 1 and 2 below are the Bureau of Engraving and Printing website and US Treasury websites: 1. Regarding the regular destruction of worn-out paper money going to the Bureau of Engraving and printing for destruction. From information on the website, it appears that the Federal Reserve banks handle "normal" wear and tear destruction and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing handles public or other claims for damaged or mutilated currency. "The Bureau audits cash destruction and unfit currency operations at Federal Reserve Banks, and it is responsible for the accountability and destruction of internally generated security waste products. As a service to the public, the Bureau also processes claims for the redemption of mutilated paper currency." - Doesn't drastically change anything in the discussion - probably miscommunication - just fyi for future reference if anyone is interested in investigating the serial number angle in more depth. 2. The serial number consists of the prefix letter (fed reserve location), 8 numbers, then the suffix letter (denotes which print run) The last two numbers and letter on the Cooper lists are not part of the serial number. They denote the series year and change sequence (if there is one). 3, Fwiw, the Cooper hijacking bills were not just 1969 series so some of the bills were already nearing or past their "average" useful life. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The numbers list was distributed in December 1971. According to the FBI document from their website, the numbers were distributed to FBI offices around the country as well as police departments and "various business establishments". The list must have been reasonably well distributed or at the very least readily available before 1973 when it was published in the newspaper - because the serial numbers were used in the Karl Fleming hoax in Feb 1972. Fleming had access to the list (I'm guessing from his work as a journalist). He said that is how he got duped - because the serial number(s) that he saw matched number(s) on the list. (If I'm remembering correctly, Lewis and Murphy showed Fleming photocopies of the bills) but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill