smokin99

Though a caveat - my info is dated a year after Bruce's articles and pics of Tina - I did not get the sense that Tina is a raging recluse. Though she did leave some pretty major details out (nothing about the hijacking, the 73 marriage or the 77 divorce, Gresham, or the convent) - apparently she does not define herself by the past

I can't really address this right now because I'm not where I can look it up- I'll give you the height but I'm pretty sure mayfield was In his mid 30s in 71 - maybe 36. But I'll have to check. Could be thinking bout someone else. But I really wasn't advancing him as a suspect - just discussing candidates in general. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Teddy Mayfield obviouly wasnt the jumper but the crime sure fits. He was a convicted ARMED ROBBER. That's a long way from picking pockets and stealing Kool Aid as far as big crime goes. OJ's armed robbery conviction comes to mind. He was just collecting his property from some thugs who stole it. Ask him. From Sluggos site: Court records in Oregon show Mayfield has various convictions, including an armed robbery just prior to the D. B. Cooper heist, transportation of a stolen plane across state lines, and Criminal Negligent Homicide, for which he served 5 months in prison. Mayfield states that he has over 50 years experience flying airplanes, is a former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces from 1961-63, and has completed over 8,000 skydiving jumps. 377 As I recall, from the Myers-Dvorak roast of Teddy, Ted's crimes weren't as severe or hardened, as the labels imply. He said himself he had poor legal representation! If I recall this correctly, the Criminal Negligent Homicide conviction for which he served actual time, was a negligence charge after the fact... after one of Ted's students or a client as his sky diving school, plunged to his death in a chute Teddy had packed ... or something like that. It was a criminal negligence charge vs. an overt criminal act on Ted's part. It apparently hit Teddy hard at the time resulting in his school being closed... and him serving time. Years later he was the Mayor his community etc. Ted's life (and deeds) do not add up to the wholesale hardened criminal type Myers and Dvorak were contending ... not by a long shot. And part of his history was ordinary bad luck. Trust me Georger. If Teddy was convicted of armed robbery it was more than ordinary bad luck. Convicted felons usually have a story about incompetent lawyers and lying witnesses. A number of deaths occurred at Mayfield's DZ allegedly due to his negligence. It's not murder, I'll give you that. It's not an intentional killing of another person, but it evidences a callous disregard for the life of someone who has put their trust in you, a student skydiver. I did talk to a person who claimed to have been a first hand witness to Ted's DZ operations for student jumpers. He said the gear was obviously unsafe and Mayfield used it anyway. I wasn't there. My info is hearsay. But don't be an apologist for Mayfield. Big diff between armed robbery and stealing Kool Aid. 377 Yeah...I think you summed it up pretty well..... http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950213&slug=2104806 His excuse was that skydiving is a risky sport. Yeah, it probably is...but so is going to church...if you get there by driving the wrong way down a one-way street at 95 miles per hour while drunk, blindfolded, and texting. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Teddy Mayfield obviouly wasnt the jumper but the crime sure fits. He was a convicted ARMED ROBBER. That's a long way from picking pockets and stealing Kool Aid as far as big crime goes. From Sluggos site: Court records in Oregon show Mayfield has various convictions, including an armed robbery just prior to the D. B. Cooper heist, transportation of a stolen plane across state lines, and Criminal Negligent Homicide, for which he served 5 months in prison. Mayfield states that he has over 50 years experience flying airplanes, is a former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces from 1961-63, and has completed over 8,000 skydiving jumps. 377 As I recall, from the Myers-Dvorak roast of Teddy, Ted's crimes weren't as severe or hardened, as the labels imply. He said himself he had poor legal representation, and even poorer judgement at the time each of his socalled 'crimes' occurred. If I recall this correctly, the Criminal Negligent Homicide conviction for which he served actual time, was a negligence charge after the fact... after one of Ted's students or a client at his sky diving school, plunged to his death in a chute Teddy had packed, or failed to check ... or something like that. It was a criminal negligence charge vs. an overt criminal act on Ted's part. It apparently hit Teddy hard at the time resulting in his school being closed... and him serving time. Years later he was a successful Mayor of his community etc. Ted's life (and deeds) do not add up to the wholesale hardened criminal type Myers and Dvorak were contending ... not by a long shot. And part of his history was ordinary bad luck. He was also pretty high profile in the Portland area as far as publicity and his parachute club, etc. in the mid 60s to early 70s. Lots of hits on him in sky diving competitions, meets, shows, clubs. Also multiple hits on close calls and ending up in the hospital and/or injuries. Crashing and landing in power lines and such. Got in trouble with FAA later years over pilot license and not following the rules. I think he kinda sorta lied about getting clearance. I'd have to look at dates but I think his school had like 13 deaths in 22 years of operation. I don't know - that seems like a lot to me and smacks of playing real loose with the ol safety rules - but my frame of reference is that one is probably too many

Jo, I think Ted Mayfield was a suspect while the skyjack was in progress. He was a bad boy national champion skydiver, pilot, convicted felon, armed robber, ex special forces, local... Anybody who knew Teddy would likely suspect him. 377 So here's Mayfield at a "tracking" competition. From Oregonian November 26, 1965. He says they would "dive straight down from 10,500 feet to terminal velocity of about 220 miles per hour. Then tuck forward into a bent over position as if about to go off a diving board. This creates an airfoil like the wing of an airplane with reduced differential pressure on your back which shoots you forward at up to 90 miles an hour". He and a partner tracked in opposite directions about a 2 miles in 55 seconds while falling about 200 mules an hour with smoke coming out of their heels

check out about the 11th post down in this forum. Talking about Mayfield's dz along with some DB Cooper. And they say this forum is a piss-fest. I'd say folks on here could pinch hit for Miss Manners compared to these guys........

I disagree Jo. He exposed a LOT about current covert surveillance ops, much to the chagrin of the NSA and the President. Isnt it amazing Snowden wasnt assassinated? I wonder if it was discussed or even planned. There is precedent for govt sanctioned murders of US citizens. Snowden was smart. Bet he let them know that there were numerous reasons not to kill him. He probably had some really volatile secret info in the hands of friends that he threatened would be disclosed if he were harmed or even extradited. Back to Cooperland. Fun to speculate about Mayfield. He sure had the skills and moral character to be part of Norjack. I'll bet all those guys knew each other, Cossey, Peterson, Mayfield. Skydiving back then was a small world. DZOs, Riggers and Instructors within a few hundred miles of each other generally were at least aquainted. 377 [inline cossey_mayfieldAug1970.jpg] but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

lol....So much for HIPAA, huh? According to Tina, who might or might not have re-written some of her life's story....who am I to judge...she retired from NW at the age of 32. If she was born in 49, then that would put her retirement at about 80-81. Maybe her Gresham visit was the catalyst for retirement. Though to be accurate, she did not mention Gresham or the convent. Speed ahead 13 years and she is in the entry level of the healthcare field while obtaining an education which will eventually lead to a career in the mental health/social services arena. Seems to be doing quite well. Interestingly, she says she worked mostly Japan flights the last 5 years with NW. Wonder if she ever met Kenny C? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

From seeing the silk cargo chute from 1945 with the same type markings as the Amboy Feb 21 1946, I'm circling back around to wondering whether we can completely dismiss Cossey's silk comment or the 34 feet comment or the cargo chute comment. Maybe, just maybe, he liked to play around with the press, but his opinion was still sound. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink. The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink. The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink. The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........

Seems like the consensus (from recent and older posts) is that even if it turns out not to be silk, it was also not ripstop, and was too old and too large to be Cooper's. As for the FBI, from all reports it looks like they let Mr. Cossey look at it but did not rely on Cossey alone to make their determination. I wouldn't be surprised if the chute is long gone - why keep it around? Catalog the find then keep moving.

The story that I remember is that the father was grading the road and the blade caught the corner or edge and pulled it partially out of the ground. Could be that it was inadvertently "buried" when the road was cut as opposed to purposefully buried by someone. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Not a chance it was a Cooper canopy. That's my opinion. Too old, not ripstop, and too big for the NB6 or NB8 containers. I don't think it was silk. My bet is nylon twill. ***What's the oldest chute you've jumped with? I was jumping a 1951 USAF 28 ft C9 round canopy as my main and a 1956 USN 26 Ft Conical as my reserve until 1979. Both were made of ripstop nylon. I still have the Navy Conical canopy and it's in great shape. I'd jump with it today if I had to. Twill (non ripstop) military surplus reserve canopies killed a few jumpers when they ripped in high speed deployments. I never saw any used after 1969. They were considered structurally unsound. Riggers will know more than I do about when twill surplus canopies stopped being used in emergency rigs. FAA TSOs play a role in what can be legally packed. 377 Thanks for your response. Carr also said that he did not know if it was silk and this was after Cossey examined it and said it was. Additionally, the FBI - though they jumped the gun initially on the description (markings) of the chute corrected the record once they realized that they were wrong. It was reported that the FBI consulted others, and both Carr and Burroughs made the statement that they were waiting on one more piece of information before reporting their final determination. This was after Cossey had examined and after Cossey's statements had been reported. All of these things together would seem to point to possibility that the FBI did not rely only on Cossey to make the determination. And the logical points that you mention about parachutes would tend to skew the argument in favor of it not being Cooper's chute anyway. Do you think Carr or any likewise informed whuffo would have been able to recognize ripstop? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I suggested that long ago, but I didn't word it right or my posting was ignore or buried in a long post. Glad someone posed it in a manner that might get a response. I do KNOW if they tested it & it was silk - it was not in the ground Unprotected against the elements for 40 yrs! Jo...here's the problem with making absolute statements like that...I have just gone out and googled two excavations of WWII plane crashes, circa 1942-3, that included buried parachutes that are in relatively okay shape for having been buried. And then, of course there is always the chance the chute was not buried that long to start with for whatever reason. As to there being zero chance of a 1946 chute being silk, I have found parachutes on ebay circa 45 and 46 that are claimed to be silk. I have found company biographies that speak to converting to making silk parachutes due to the war during the mid to later 40s, and, frankly, I just don't believe intuitively that manufacturing stops on a dime. If they had silk in stock, they used it all regardless of the import situation. Not only that, purchasers of silk likely knew this was coming and likely increased their orders before the gate got shut. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yes, that's my point exactly.....and Burroughs was also reported on April 1 as saying that they were waiting on one more thing before making final determination. So it appears that "perhaps" silk was not the deciding factor as some have assumed. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

If I were to make an educated guess about an educated guess... It might be because the likelihood of ANY silk parachute being used for anything in the last 50-60 years that would have found it residing underground is slim to none. And that any silk parachute buried for even 1/2 that amount of time would probably be in much worse shape. That said - agree 100%, you don't make factual inferences without anything to back it up...and offer an investigative opinion on an article of evidence you've not actually 'tested'. Weak One more thing I meant to mention.... Cossey made his statement about it being silk on about the 28th. On April 1, ckret made the following post: "I am not sure about it being silk, if it was, it was not in the ground that long" So if Carr wasn't sure about the silk, then it would seem as if he must have had more than Cossey and his silk statement to go on to make the final determination. Edited to add...this also leads me to ask - how do we know it was buried that long? ...could this have been someone's idea of an April Fools joke to say they found a buried chute? Questions to airtwardo or other jumpers -- What's your opinion on the chute being one of the those given to Cooper as far as the age of the chute goes? What's the oldest chute you've jumped with? What's the likelihood of Cossey packing an old canopy in a chute for Hayden's emergency rig? Would a sky diving club have rules to follow about the age of the chutes that they rented or gave out? Thanks but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

lol...got any mirrors in that office of yours? According to their site, Tom Kaye and company looked at some of the evidence in 2009 and 2011. Tom Kaye and company jumped to conclusions on several points. One of these was that they "concurred" that the parachute was first generation nylon and not silk - even though by their own admission they had never examined the chute. This is, in my opinion, not only sloppy but irresponsible. They cannot and should not make any conclusions about something that they have not seen. They didn't even cage it with a "we think because.....". In the notes they caveat with a "research shows that it is likely....." but the body of the main text makes it appear that the parachute is not silk. How can they know that? I respect the work, time, expense that Tom Kay and company expended on this case and think their contribution is a good one. But they are not infallible - and their work has holes. My major disappointment is that they tended to jump to conclusions and used a little too much speculation. There are other areas where the claims were - maybe not specious - but certainly presupposing outcomes without actual scientific proof. But silk or nylon, whether you like it or not, based on final news reports it appears that the FBI did their due diligence in vetting the chute - aside from Cossey. If they wanted to hide from the truth they never would have re-ignited the case in the first place. But I have no doubt that they are not publicizing everything that they know. This is also alluded to on Tom Kaye's website ......"The FBI has requested that specific information not be released publicly, so this is an overview of the evidence". but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

NOT TO MENTION...the bumfuddle it causes when one points to the fact that Cossey said he knew it wasn't the chute in 10 seconds as evidence that Cossey couldn't have made a good examination .......while on the other hand they say that Cossey lies. wtf.. If he lies, then....hello...maybe he was lying about the 10 seconds. Some folks want to make this a whole lot more complex then it is. Makes my head spin sometimes. And maybe it is, but the way I see it..... Cossey liked to be the one they came to even as he complained about it... and he got a kick out of being the curmudgeon that didn't give a shit. He became a persona and it played it up. I just wouldn't put a lot of thought into his motives other than ego. It's a human thing. But that's just my take on it. I could be wrong. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

May 25, 2008: the public finds out about the Amboy chute May 28, 2008: Cossey looks at the chute on his garage floor. May 30, 2008: Other experts were being consulted 7 days after first news reports…..April 1, 2008: The conclusion was based "on the totality of the information," Seattle FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said, and not just the opinion of Earl Cossey, the FAA-certified parachute rigger who packed each of the four parachutes that were handed over to Cooper on Nov. 24, 1971. "Other parachute experts were consulted," Burroughs said, including some who stepped forward to help the FBI after the parachute's discovery was announced last week. Cossey said Monday that the parachute he examined last week could not have been used by Cooper because of differences in fabric. The parachute laid on his garage floor on Friday was silk; the parachute packed for Cooper was ripstop nylon, Cossey said. Burroughs acknowledged that FBI officials initially erred in saying that the parachute found near Amboy contained no identifying features. After making that statement, a closer inspection found two pieces of information on the parachute: the date Feb. 21, 1946, and what is believed to be a serial number, 307551. Burroughs said the agency is aware of the definitive rejection…..by Earl Cossey. The FAA-certified parachute riggher who packed the four parachutes….. April 1 2008: Burroughs said she could not reveal the final detail the agency was pursuing today. No where that they ONLY talked on the phone to these experts. No where that they ONLY showed it to Cossey. You can make up all the theories and stories you want if you want to - just doesn't make it so. Random notes: Many other parachutes have been found in this area including another buried one that was investigated as possibly belong to Cooper. Hell, there was at least one case I remember of bones found with a parachute nearby. Why no concern about those? I've not seen the chute (yet) , and I think I'm growing weary of this conversation but one more thing...... why on earth would we assume that the lack of Japanese silk would completely halt the manufacturer of silk parachutes? What? Did all the silk goods and parachute companies gather up all the raw silk and silk cloth and burn it ? Lol…...Yeah that'll show the Japanese that we don't need their silk. Why would American companies not have stores on hand and use all of that up until it was gone? There were silk mills and silk goods manufacturers that were able to keep their doors open in the early and mid 40s only because they converted their productivity to making parachutes or supplying parachute makers as opposed to making hairbands and socks. Silk was scarce but not non-existent. Finally, a message to Bruce - maybe you could kill two birds with one stone--- talk to a bonafide parachute expert (or so I've heard - he wrote "The Parachute Manual: A Technical Treatise on the Parachute" who also happens to be a self-publishing guru with free resources on his site who has also worked with the FBI and CIA ……. one stop shopping http://www.parapublishing.com/sites/para/about/about.cfm Just a thought...

I also read every article I could find about the chute and Blevins is either confused, misleading, or misreading. The FBI clearly says that Cossey was not the only expert. They have NEVER said that no one else was allowed to examine it - that is something that Blevins made up - see sentence above. They also reported to have based their conclusions on other evidence besides visual examination. No they didn't tell the general public what this was - just like they are not telling everything about other investigations. Blevins is unable to prove a negative so he streams a lot of articles together and is misleading on some of them because the time of the actual article might have nil to do with the actual timeframe that it occurred. Ego-stroking statements by a man (Cossey) who, just like the co-pilot, seems to have gained a greater role in the saga over the years with each re-telling, should not be confusing this issue. The scenario that Cossey is trying to save face or his reputation on a case that he would still be giving interviews about if alive is laughable. How clearly do I have to say that other than us diehards - and maybe a couple of hundred/thousand people with a little more than a passing interest in the case - and the occasional whatever happened to db cooper news report, no one else gives a damn. It's a fact that whether he owned the chutes or not, from all reports he was the packer and would still be the guy all the reporters call had he not been killed in his garage. It's silly to imagine otherwise. Blevins might need to keep digging for articles because this is not the first parachute that has ever been found in that area, and more than that, this is not the first buried parachute that has been found in the jump area and reported to having possibly belonged to Cooper. But reporting on the whole story is way too unbiased for some Cooper addicts. They'd much rather have you think that they are the smartest people in the room. And finally a bit of non-Cooper logic....From a comment by commenter Dick Thurston on an article at Bruce Smith's site - Mountain News: http://themountainnewswa.net/2012/05/14/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-looking-for-the-amboy-chute/#comments "Bruce, I worked at McChord AFB for over 20 years. One of my jobs was checking out reports of old plane crashes. I can tell you that finding an old parachute almost anywhere in Washington state means very little. the 62 MAW which is stationed at McChord has conducted cargo and personnel parachute drops all over the Pacfific Northwest for 50 years. It is not at all unusual to have a cargo chute separate from its cargo and drift for miles in an unexpected direction. And reports of old crashes are often inaccurate. I have investigated wreckage sightings and found aircraft several miles from their map positions. And when you factor in the number of skydiving clubs in the area, I am surprised that you can walk a mile in any rural area without tripping over an old parachute."

After all of your foo-fo-rah in that previous post, this statement has the most truth, wouldn't you say? You make my point completely. The Newsvine article covers some facets on this issue, but not the ones that really matter. Such as the Seattle FBI announcing on a Thursday media release that the chute had been sent to their lab for analysis, and then delivering it to Earl Cossey the next day in the trunk of a car for ID. Or...the Seattle FBI announcing in another media release that local experts were being consulted. Later, they admitted this was only done by phone, and none were allowed to actually examine it. I could go on. Don't get me started. I downloaded and saved every single media release they did on the Amboy chute as long as they included official statements or recorded appearances. Their quick dismissal without a real explanation just doesn't wash. Now maybe you're thinking I believe a conspiracy was involved. No. What I actually think is that it was a sloppy investigation because the Seattle FBI simply didn't care. If the chute were Cooper's, this does not bring them closer to solving the case. If the chute were Cooper's, this also proves they were wrong and Cooper made it to the ground. Neither option helps them, neither option solves the case. Neither option makes the FBI look good. So they had no motivation to deal with it on a realistic basis. And they did NOT. Seattle media was hot on this story at first, they really were. But they had no choice but to swallow the Seattle FBI's dismissal-without-explanation, just like everyone else. You want to believe their conclusion? Fine. Just show me officially how they actually CAME to a conclusion and what they presented to support it. Don't bother looking. You won't find it. Foo fa rah...that's helpful...You are definitely the expert in sloppy investigation as has been pointed out with your own foibles; however, I didn't make your point because your point is illogical at best. I would like it re-adressed merely to clean it up because of the cossey statements and because it all became centered around him - NOT because I think the outcome will be any different and not because I think they are trying to whitewash anything. I think that the whole Cossey debacle is based on semantics. Kind of like the way the co-captain became the primary character in HIS version, so Cossey became the primary in HIS version. Yes, there is a difference. I happen to lean more towards believing their statement, because I don't think they have anything to gain or lose by lying at this date. And, as I pointed out - if they are, it's a fool's game we're playing anyway. I have shown you their conclusion and how they came to it in the article I posted - the foo fa rah. They relied on expert opinions and they did have other experts look at the chute. The totality of the evidence - some of which they did not choose to share with you. If you choose not to believe it, that is your prerogative. I imagine there are other things that they have not told you. They must not be aware of who you are.....lol...maybe you'll just have to wait in line on their book. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible. Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to. I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU I think the Sunstrand was mentioned in the document. That was interesting. ...thanks Edited to correct the name of DFR - I was listening to the next video on the Fairchild digital dfr when I posted this....

Yes, he does. Which shows he has an obsession going for sure, IMHO. I envision him poised above his keyboard late at night...waiting...waiting. It's funny actually, and although sort of weird, also flattering in a strange sort of way. I have to give him that. But due to some outside activities on the internet, and a desire to protect both Gayla and myself from personal attacks, I have taken to establishing certain parameters about dealing with the internet, and with the public. Try to understand. We get a lot of email, and a fair amount of snail mail on KC, or other subjects. And I doubt that the murder of Earl Cossey had anything to do with the Cooper case, but I'm not taking any chances. If Gayla had her way, we would completely delete the book from Amazon and trash out the Cooper page at the website. She points to our losses on that, my failure to accept money from History Channel and Comcast Sports (Adrenaline Hunter), my refusal of the offer from the Paradigm client for the KC film rights, etc. And yes, sometimes she looks at this thread. She has a point. She gets worried. She says AB isn't about Cooper or KC, but something bigger. Like when we re-did the classic by the late, great, Margarie Phleger or did the sci-fi mag, or sponsored the Young Writers' Project that published a fifteen-year-old girl from Florida. And she's right. These are some of the reasons I never bothered to visit the Cooper exhibit in Tacoma, go to Ariel last year, or do the symposium at the museum. She says, rightly, that AB is not the DB Cooper Publishing Platform, and we are not about all that. Sometimes I feel guilty about it because I know she's right.