smokin99

My point about the fingerprint powder is that there are potentially so many explanations for the ingredients - and they all didn't have to be placed on there at once -- and we aren't 100% sure that it is his tie. Edited to add: I wanted to make sure before I posted but actually I wen back and checked and there are types of fingerprint powders that can potentially contain all of the ingredients listed. just fyi. Oh well...sorry to see you go. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I will assume you mean the Dan Cooper comic. Okay. How was he 'exposed?' Simply being for sale in eastern Canada in limited numbers just won't cut it. Did he own some of them and you can prove this? How do you know he was 'exposed to all those particles found on the tie'? You don't say HOW. Millions of people served in Europe during WW2. Was he a paratrooper and can you prove it? Or was he a skydiver? What 'aviation experience'? Basically, except for a layered, photoshopped image, you have provided exactly LESS THAN ZERO regarding any suspect. No evidence, no references, no identity, and no proof. Robert, I all for challenging, but at least read the posts before you dump on him. He's already said that he can prove his guy read and was obsessed with the comic AND his guy had a connection to a real individual named Dan Cooper. If I 'm not mistaken the suspect is in a picture with a real Dan Cooper at the bridge - the picture that has the square and squiggly line dynamite marking on it. Plus he was questioned on this so he clarified. Plus he never said his guy was from eastern CA, plus he said he didn't photoshop the guys image - he just layered it over the composite. No he's not talking on where the tie particles come from. He's already said that. Now pay attention.

I will assume you mean the Dan Cooper comic. Okay. How was he 'exposed?' Simply being for sale in eastern Canada in limited numbers just won't cut it. Did he own some of them and you can prove this? How do you know he was 'exposed to all those particles found on the tie'? You don't say HOW. Millions of people served in Europe during WW2. Was he a paratrooper and can you prove it? Or was he a skydiver? What 'aviation experience'? Basically, except for a layered, photoshopped image, you have provided exactly LESS THAN ZERO regarding any suspect. No evidence, no references, no identity, and no proof. Robert, I all for challenging, but at least read the posts before you dump on him. He's already said that he can prove his guy read and was obsessed with the comic AND his guy had a connection to a real individual named Dan Cooper. If I 'm not mistaken the suspect is in a picture with a real Dan Cooper at the bridge - the picture that has the square and squiggly line dynamite marking on it. Plus he was questioned on this so he clarified. Plus he never said his guy was from eastern CA, plus he said he didn't photoshop the guys image - he just layered it over the composite. No he's not talking on where the tie particles come from. He's already said that. Now pay attention.

and some wonder why I don't share the name here… for vetting,, .. No, not wondering....I still maintain my original assessment about secrecy on this thread even if you say it does not apply to you -but LET THE HUNGER GAMES BEGIN????? I don't know - that sounds a little competitive to me.

lol...I'm with the 377. I think you and Jo have perfected the art of the tease. I'm not getting anymore out of this"transition" than what you've already posted, but that's just me. Lol...such secrecy...If I remember correctly wasn't teamwork a big part of why the hero on hunger games won? Seriously, though...imo...this is another reason that the case will never be solved without a forensic or physical evidence find. Everyone is so "ungnomish" , competitive, and afraid of being "scooped" that no one will ever be declared "the winner' without evidence. I'm talking prints, a body, a chute, or a twenty. But good luck!

lol...I'm with the 377. I think you and Jo have perfected the art of the tease. I'm not getting anymore out of the transition than what you've already posted, but that's just me. Edited to add - this does not mean that I don't see the likeness - just that I don't see it any better than with the original attachment.

Like I said, I've read and watched a lot about the Long island flight myself, and while i don't consider myself an expert, even a wikipedia one, on all and sundry that comes up on this thread, there are some questions that are still out there to anyone with even a a little intellectual curiosity. But this isn't a thread about that so I'm just going to let that be. But about DB Cooper.....First it's highly doubtful that the FBI was calling all of the shots at that point. Second - How do you know they don't have fingerprints? Fingerprint 101 as you like to say, is that they have to have someone or a set on file to compare it to. Two containers - what is to stop him from throwing both away? Plus if they can get fingerprints off of a canvas bag, why can't they just get them off of the parachute and canister he left behind on the plane? Or the glass he drank out of of? Or the seats he touched? Or DNA from the cords that he cut? A camera? Why would Northwest or the FBI endanger the lives of the passengers and crew like that? Were cameras the quiet little marvels of technology that we see today? The ones I remember were large loud shutterbugs that needed flash to do anything in low light. Other than the fact that hindsight and 40 years has made us so much smarter than the FBI was then, people tend to forget that this guy had a flippin bomb and was threatening to BLOW THEM UP - or they thought he did and that is enough. On the question of oxygen, if that conversation came from Geoff Gray - I'm not convinced that he didn't paraphrase and embellish some of the conversations in the book. (Not intentional maybe, but literary license to make the story read better) I've found quite a few discrepancies against what is in the publicized records, ckret's statements and GG's book. Not to mention that GG just ran with the whole Kenny paid over 14,000 in cash for a house without checking into that. My point being if you can be that cavalier about something that is a primary basis for KC being Cooper, I don't know - just doesn't inspire much trust in the rest of the book. But that's just me... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

What? No way. There were many "Janets" who witnessed the surface to air missile strike on TWA 800. They also saw a cruise missile hit the Pentagon on 9/11. 377 And don't forget the guy on the grassy knoll and all the people that were suppose to be buried with Lee Harvey Oswald. Oswald was actually dug up to check on that one and it turned out to be incorrect. But the real "experts" are all the people who swear they know/saw something that couldn't possibly be correct and they can be a pain in the rear. The opinions of "experts", and we seem to have one or two on this thread who think they are, seems to be more highly valued than actual facts in some circles. Robert99 Not saying where I come down on either of two of the above controversial events (JFK and Long island Flight) - just that there are still a lot of unanswered questions surrounding these events that can cause one to pause and ponder. But in a large part, conspiracy or alternative theories can be born out of desire to make sense out of senseless events, and/or because the government's investigation/inquires into the actual events, and governmental actions leading up to and after the events were so mucked up. As we all know, if you don't believe that governmental agencies of countries - including the one I love, the good ole US of A - weren't/aren't capable of some nefarious, illegal, and hurtful activities, then you haven't been paying attention. On the other hand sometimes the government is so concerned with the appearance of impropriety that they create impropriety where there was none to begin with.

So in keeping with the foreigner theme... I received a pm from another forum member with a link to a comment on an article about the DB Cooper/Franco-/ comic connection. In the comments section of this article is a post much like Flyjack's previous post on dropzone which I am copying here: "About 30 minutes North of the US/Canadian Peace Arch border is a community called Maillardville, a suburb of Vancouver BC, my grandparents grew up there. it is the largest French Canadian community in the West, a substantial community. They were very blue collar, fully french/english bilingual, extremely french Canadian culturally, smokers, drinkers and military.. they love and celebrate the military most of them were in WW2. Most were born there but were fully french Canadian. My grandparents and their friends would drive to Reno or Vegas every year for their vacation. It was common to cross the border and shop or do day trips. So, when I read the FBIs "cooper" suspect description, it resonated with my knowledge of that community. I thought that Cooper may have come from that community. So, I started to research the possible connection to the titanium on the tie and Canada was a titanium producer and there were companies in the area that used titanium, in fact I found one still in existence today that was started in 1970, DO THEY STILL HAVE EMPLOYEE RECORDS. At this point I got sidetracked with that other suspect and haven't followed up on a possible Maillardville connection, but it should be investigated...... " The comment on this other article (not on Dropzone): "Listen-up all you sleuths out there............ here is a serious tip! -Seattle is closer to Vancouver than it is to Quebec -Maillardville is a French community located near Vancouver and is less than 20 miles from the US border. -Maillardville is adjacent to the City of Port Coquitlam, which, as chance would have it, was home to Pacific Kennametal......... a specially alloy producer that used titanium. - Here is a website link: http://coquitlamites.blogspot.com/201... it leads to an article from which the following is taken: - Kennametal Inc., Port Coquitlam (PE 2350)This manufacturing operation produces carbides of Titanium, Tantalum, Tungsten and Niobium. - The facility closed in the mid 1990's....... many of these people are still around. - Please cut me in on the reward!" I pm'd Flyjack and he says he is not the author of the comment from the article so someone else out is interested in the Maillardville connection. The Kennametal company location was opened in 1956 and is no longer around (though the international parent company is alive and kicking). I found another company (appears to family-owned) called Stevested Machinery. It was founded in 1970, works with Titanium, does a lot of business with aerospace industry, etc. Flyjack said that this was the company he was referring to, but neither the companies in question or Maillardville have anything to do with his current "suspect" (He did not say why this company caught his eye to begin with). I also found an American "Dan Cooper" in the same type of industry, but I didn't have time to really look for a connection to the hijacking or to any dead employees from the two companies in Vancouver, BC. I did find one indirect link with a guy from one of the companies, but this guy was in his early 50s. Anyway, Flyjack had no problem with this being posted since it has nothing to do with his secret suspect. So I am putting this out for general consumption if anyone is interested in pursuing the "French Connection". Or not.

Actually, your post about the phrase is no more than anyone else has been saying, but still Flyjack makes a great point because it speaks to the problem with this entire case - There is subjective bias that eliminates or short-changes certain avenues of investigation. And I'm not talking about physical descriptions - because on that you have to have some type of defining criteria - I'm speaking more to biases inherent in speculative conclusions and second-hand profiling. It starts with assumptions about his behavior on the plane, then goes to the assumption that he didn't make it and spreads from there. There is nothing to suggest that Rataczak heard the hijacker. As far as we know, Cooper never talked directly to the crew in the cockpit except for the one time that they asked if he was okay. So the idea that he would even know at this late date is iffy. Finally...Even if he did...what do we have if Rataczak says that the hijacker used the phrase? We would be no further along then current speculation, because if the hijacker did (or didn't) say it you still do not know if he was a foreigner...or a counterfeiter....or a flight attendant that dealt with customs..or a regular ol joe who didn't want pesos...or a Portland banker. Not speculating on the odds, but, regardless, it would still not be beyond the realm of possibility that he was a foreigner without an accent. Which is why this conversation got revisited in the first place. I wouldn't be willing to bet further afield than certain areas of Canada, though that's just me. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Are you aware that Jo got a dead dog exhumed based on her conviction that Cooper evidence was buried with it? 377 lol...

Yes I realize that. But from what I've been told...rumor only.... Northwest/Delta is not playing and the FAA has been non-responsive to FOIA requests. So at the moment the rest of us are stuck with what we have. But I would love to know what you know...so anytime you are ready to share, I am all ears.

Well, okay then. When you guys that have all of the really cool stuff that the rest of us minions cannot access solve the case, please let us know. But until then or until such time as we are all privy to the insider information, we Cooper zombies are stuck with useless crap like transcripts and crew notes and other drivel that has been leaked, disseminated, written and sang about. So you'll just have to bear with us.

His stated destination was: MEXICO. They could have given him pesos! Yes, you make a very good point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock And if he was going to Mexico, he might have wished they had.

Or ... he never said that! READ THE THREAD. It's old advice but you need to check FACTS BEFORE leaping to theory. Facts vs myth. Hot button theory vs. actual research. you miss the point, I STATED,, either the hijacker said it OR somebody added it,, WHY would somebody add it if they were American.. would an American add it to the narrative.. Why would any American add "American" to describe the currency. and you sir miss the WHOLE POINT! He never said it - period! The issue is facts vs myths, in case you care. It's all supposition, of course, but to Flyjack's point, someone said it..... and he makes a valid observation that the crew has no reason to interject the word American. Here are the references... From the handwritten crew notes: "negotiable currency" From the transcript: "He wants negotiable American currency. Denomination not important" From ckret's post on Dropzone: "He asked for negotiable US currency" Well it is a good thing someone asked for negotiable or negotiable american currency. It would have made the jump more difficult with $200,000 worth of gold bars. or printing presses...in case they thought he wanted to make his own.

Or ... he never said that! READ THE THREAD. It's old advice but you need to check FACTS BEFORE leaping to theory. Facts vs myth. Hot button theory vs. actual research. you miss the point, I STATED,, either the hijacker said it OR somebody added it,, WHY would somebody add it if they were American.. would an American add it to the narrative.. Why would any American add "American" to describe the currency. and you sir miss the WHOLE POINT! He never said it - period! The issue is facts vs myths, in case you care. It's all supposition, of course, but to Flyjack's point, someone said it..... and he makes a valid observation that the crew has no reason to interject the word American. Here are the references... From the handwritten crew notes: "negotiable currency" From the transcript: "He wants negotiable American currency. Denomination not important" From ckret's post on Dropzone: "He asked for negotiable US currency" but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Not sure where Bruce got his information from..but... The phrase..from the flight crew's handwritten notes written during the hijacking....was "negotiable currency". The transcript (305 talking) has the phrase "Wants money in negotiable American currency. Denomination not important". I will be the first to attest that it is hard to keep all of this stuff straight with all of the misinformation that has been reported over the years. Yes, if the hijacker did in fact use that phrase, he would have been a foreigner, so that phrase has to be explained ex the hijacker to maintain an American as a suspect.. Bruce suggested that it was interjected by the crew,, however, that makes less sense as they are all American,, Why would someone other than the hijacker use that phrase?? Something is fishy here?? you can't have it both ways, you can't argue that the crew added it when they are all American AND argue the hijacker didn't say it because he had to be American. I can't see why an American crew would add the phrase and if they didn't then it came from the hijacker and if the hijacker said it, he is very likely a foreigner. In other words, it is LESS likely that the crew added the phrase than it coming from the hijacker. I hate it when people edit their original posts AFTER I have responded and i see I just did the same thing. Sorry... I am reposting my edit...... Edited to add....Bruce has interviewed a lot of folks...was he saying that this was something the crew wrote or said in two different places that the hijacker didn't actually say? (referring to "negotiable currency" from notes and "negotiable American currency" from transcript) OR... was he just contesting the use of the word "American" and saying the hijacker only said "negotiable currency" as per the notes? lol...never mind.....I see you did it too.. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Not sure where Bruce got his information from..but... The phrase..from the flight crew's handwritten notes written during the hijacking....was "negotiable currency". The transcript (305 talking) has the phrase "Wants money in negotiable American currency. Denomination not important". I will be the first to attest that it is hard to keep all of this stuff straight with all of the misinformation that has been reported over the years. Edited to add....Bruce has interviewed a lot of folks...was he saying that this was something the crew wrote or said in two different places that the hijacker didn't actually say? Or was he just contesting the use of the word "American" and saying the hijacker only said "negotiable currency" as per the notes? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

And as has been pointed out to you before when you made that observation........Robert, the point was and is..that Tina had the opportunity to interact with him as they were both standing - so she had a point of comparison. As did the gate attendant and ticket agent. As probably did the other flight attendants. Again they had a point of comparison - did they have to look up to talk to him, straight on, or look down? In the cabin, could Tina look at the top of the luggage compartment and say "he came up to here"? Knowing where someone stacks up in relation to cabin height as both are standing isn't exactly rocket science. Cabin height would be another valid reference point. Bear in mind that these descriptions were captured and documented in the moment. In your scenario, you were likely sitting down looking up at someone walking down the aisle. From that angle it might very well be likely that you would misjudge someone's height. They don't call em optical "delusions" for nothing. Yes, the other passengers - if they noticed him at all - only observed him as they were sitting or as he was sitting. Judging someone's height as they are sitting (if you are not sitting right next to them) might not be so easy - did he have a long torso and short legs, or vice versa? If I were sitting ahead or across from him, how would I know how long his legs were? (Plus, remember, at the time, according to Carr, most of the passengers had no idea what was going on and really had no reason to study him for a later description **btw.... search for Carr's post about the passengers who noticed Cooper and were able to give a description - and note who is NOT on there). (Not saying he didn't leave out a name due to privacy reasons, just putting it out there as posted) But back to the point - the other passenger descriptions are not the descriptions that I would put as much credence in as I would the people who had personal interaction with him AND had relative comparison points by sitting or standing next to him. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

can't blame a girl for trying..... No you can't do that,, my suspect lived in several countries.. if that helps.. lol...oh yea that definitely helps. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

can't blame a girl for trying..... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Robert, We don't know what the FBI said to Tina when she got off the plane. It seems highly unlikely they said nothing to her. They needed to assess the risk of the rest of the passengers and crew and instruct her on what to do to make sure the hijacker didn't panic. I know we've been down this path before, but they also might have asked her to make note of any identifying characteristics of the hijacker. You might prefer one of the passengers descriptions to Tina's, but having a chance to be coached by the FBI would give her description the best chance to be the most accurate. Again. I will have to refresh my memory, but I don't think the FBI gave Tina the money. I think Al Lee of Northwest gave the money to Tina. Not saying that he couldn't pass on something from the FBI, but, basically it seems the Northwest objective was to facilitate the transaction without anyone getting hurt. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

lol...say what? If he turns out to be Canadian there's like a 100% chance that he is Canadian. I wish they had long shots like that in the lottery.

I might be wrong but I believe that the FBI had little to do with the case at that point. From most available documentation, it seems that Northwest was calling the shots with input from the FAA. The FBI was maybe not on the periphery but pretty darn close. At least that's my impression form the documentation. The transcripts suggest that Northwest was clearly not going to risk putting people in more danger than they were already in and wanted nothing done that would jeopardize the crew. Give him the frickiin money and let him jump out of the plane and hope that no one is harmed in the process. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

They might not have been totally against looking at a foreigner. I just remembered that at one point they were looking at a suspect who had pulled off an airplane extortion overseas - Australia, Qantas, bomb, money, similar suspect - Not sure how much they invested in this avenue. I will have to look up the particulars. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1300&dat=19710805&id=QPc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=uZADAAAAIBAJ&pg=2152,580198 edited to add - I think this guy and his partners eventually got caught. Just posting it to show that, even with the non-accent, they might have checked out non-Americans if there was a reason to. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill