smokin99

You're absolutely right. What can I say - sometimes you just have to call someone on their BS and then it always turns into a yip yap back and forth. Guilty as charged but I just could not hold back when someone is actually going out and getting comments from another blog to bring in here to bitch about. I forgot to switch back to my ignore mode. So you got anything fun to share about jumping or the caper?

Yes it is. You have been posting about the filthy comments since at least Feb of 2012. Don't know about you, but my calendar says that is years. It is past time to move on. And I know you don't care, but sometimes I wish you could see yourself as others see you on this forum. oh well. I'm done with this. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Robert - reading comp 101. Read my posts, dear. Then comprehend. Then you can talk to yourself.

I don't 'make people leave this forum voluntarily'. That's just an excuse they use. Maybe they get bored. Maybe they get banned. I pointed out the PDF's back there for one really good reason: It shows EXACTLY where the problem lies with some folks around here. There is no spin possible for this, and when the same people who are whining HERE about Robert, etc spend months making all those comments, then how do you justify that? I ignore internet filth as well, but here's the problem: It isn't anonymous, general-category filth. It's filth that was created by the same people who are doing the whining right now. People whose posts you answer all the time. They are known to you. That is the difference. You'll have to explain to me how you can justify their actions on that...and then nod your head and commiserate with them on how bad Blevins is...LOL. Tough job, I would say. Time to do a morals check, my friend. No Robert, these are not necessarily people from another site who have been banned. These are people that got tired of your posts. How do I know they left because of you - because they told me so. Robert, no you do not ignore internet filth. Anyone else would have let the site owner know and had them requested to take down. You on the other hand, copied them all to a PDF so that you could read and talk about them over and over and over again. Oh yeah, and every once in a while threaten to re-post them for some asinine reason. You make a lot of accusations but to my knowledge you haven't proven a single one. As we have seen from inaccurate stuff about Kenny that you put out before all facts are in, you have not garnered much faith in your ability to prove something. So, Robert, my friend, my morals check says that I believe people are innocent until proven guilty. But that's just mine. I can't speak to yours. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

As i said, Robert, I am not getting involved in your obsession. Yes, you are a venom magnet, but you bring a lot of that on yourself. And in the areas of being rude and confrontational, you have given as good as you have gotten in dealing with other people. And finally, Robert, you don't know me well enough to determine my motives, my backbone, or my character. It's his call, but I can only hope that Quade does not allow you to continue your obsessive fights with others by proxy posting of comments from other sites. It's ridiculous. I'm not 'obsessed' by pointing out facts. Ignoring them is a personal decision you make on your own. You chose to do that. And if you aren't concerned, why do you reply? Why do you hint about having the moderator step in? A few minor quotes that aren't that bad, kind of rude on Bruce's part considering, but not TOO bad...and you start hinting about moderators. You want to moderate something more realistic? How about this: How about if I take a pair of PDF's with more than SIX HUNDRED filthy-ass comments posted with identical names to many of the more famous posters at Dropzone...and make them a free download at AB? See...now that would be obsessive perhaps. But also quite fair. A bit mean perhaps, but still fair. I'm a big believer in people facing up to public personas when they have two and the two don't match. Kind of like celebrity mags do...

As i said, Robert, I am not getting involved in your obsession. Yes, you are a venom magnet, but you bring a lot of that on yourself. And in the areas of being rude and confrontational, you have given as good as you have gotten in dealing with other people. And finally, Robert, you don't know me well enough to determine my motives, my backbone, or my character. It's his call, but I can only hope that Quade does not allow you to continue your obsessive fights with others by proxy posting of comments from other sites. It's ridiculous. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

(The blog format didn't seem to be working for Bruce, so I told him if they wanted a free place to post, I had a forum already set up and running with WYSIWYG editing and full insertion capability. He follows the above with some idiotic 'Bobby B' comment. I have absolutely NO interest in making posts to Wordpress blogs, not even my own.) Apology? Don't hold your breath. Not happening. And it's not 'Blevs' or 'Bobby B', thank you. Are you seriously going to keep going to that other site and posting comments from there? Especially one that you perceive as critical of you? Give it a rest. The blog format works fine for what it is, they just want to have the capability of more options. But with all the animosity between you and other posters, why would it enter your mind that those posters would participate in something that would lead traffic to your website? A forum that you ultimately would have control of. You say that you won't be posting there but you also said you were leaving here and how long did that last? Robert, there's room on the world wide web for another forum about DB. It will either be successful or it won't. Why worry about it? Just give it a rest. It wasn't about his blog. It was about HIS COMMENTS. I couldn't care less who posts what where and how they do it. This guy wants an apology? He spun me into an interview by lying and saying the interview was for a newspaper. Then...he posts the 'interview' at Dropzone, which was the only place it appeared...and got pissed off because I wouldn't tell him the true names of the witnesses. Then when he DOES interview people, he says bad things about them, personal things, when he doesn't get what he feels he deserves from the people he interviewed? Are you defending this stuff? You think it is GOOD? Just wondering. You can tell him that for me if you wish. If you guys are serious, why don't you quit spinning your wheels and just sign up for a free site at Webs dot com. They have built in forums you can set up in minutes. August will be ten years they've been hosting AB. Trust me, they're easy, they are no problem, and for five bucks a month and twenty a year you can even have your own domain and a premium site. Whatever Robert. I'm quite sure that folks that are running the blog can google forum sites as good as you can and figure it out for themselves. I'm not getting involved in your obsessions. Like I said - the best advice I can give you is to quit worrying about other sites or COMMENTS from other sites. It is as easy as not going there. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

(The blog format didn't seem to be working for Bruce, so I told him if they wanted a free place to post, I had a forum already set up and running with WYSIWYG editing and full insertion capability. He follows the above with some idiotic 'Bobby B' comment. I have absolutely NO interest in making posts to Wordpress blogs, not even my own.) Apology? Don't hold your breath. Not happening. And it's not 'Blevs' or 'Bobby B', thank you. Are you seriously going to keep going to that other site and posting comments from there? Especially one that you perceive as critical of you? Give it a rest. The blog format works fine for what it is, they just want to have the capability of more options. But with all the animosity between you and other posters, why would it enter your mind that those posters would participate in something that would lead traffic to your website? A forum that you ultimately would have control of. You say that you won't be posting there but you also said you were leaving here and how long did that last? Robert, there's room on the world wide web for another forum about DB. It will either be successful or it won't. Why worry about it? Just give it a rest. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

lol....Or it would mean that we finally have to get a life...... I think your assessment is spot on. I'm conflicted. Part of me wants to know, the other part likes the wondering. As to it ever being solved...I doubt seriously that it will solved - especially to the satisfaction of all - unless they are holding something back that they are not telling us. And you have to wonder about that, since the only reason this would ever go to court would be an attorney's dream of the entertainment and publicity to be gained from being surrounded by media on the courthouse steps. This isn't Whitey Bulger stuff. No one's going to prison. But that's just my take on it. I could be wrong. I've actually researched this question with three different prosecutors, including former ADA from the Decoded show Scott Rolle. All of them had the same opinion. Due to the John Doe warrant restricting itself to the hijacker, it is extremely unlikely anyone except Cooper himself could face prosecution today. That warrant was an end-around the law as it existed at the time of the hijacking: Five year Statute of Limitations on air piracy. That has since been changed, of course. I imagine the Federal judge who issued that warrant was reluctant to side-step the statute, but somehow was convinced to go ahead and do it anyway. It could be used as a defense in any case brought that involved possible accomplice(s) to the hijacking. One exception is when the hijacker forces the flight to leave the country, which is seen as a 'toll' on the statute because you are basically fleeing at the same time to avoid prosecution. It's complicated.

Can you imagine if Vince Bugliosi defended an accused Cooper? Besides being a formidable prosecutor and razor sharp defense lawyer he is a very talented author. Read The Sea Will Tell or Helter Skelter. I'd love to read a Bugliosi book on Norjack. It would be a masterpiece. 377 I've read both and I agree. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Robert, you are a legend in your own mind. You mistake me for someone who cares about your suspect. I don't - however - I also have never said anything about a "pack of lies". Yes, I said your work is inaccurate and therefore lacks credibility. I personally think it is just sloppy work of people who are poster children for confirmation bias. You people find something that you can nebulously connect to your suspect, that's where you stop. I have no clue what you are talking about with the anime - I NEVER tried to say the comics were anime. You did. You also said that it was distributed 99.9% in the French language. Frankly, once again, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Robert, the larger point was that it was available in more than the French language. It was. And that it was not widely available in Canada. It wasn't. It is assumed that the comic was the source of the name. While it might be a fun trivia point, that also has never been proved. If you took the time you could probably find these things out for yourself. Hint, Robert, Google is wonderful, but have you ever tried a library? Wonderful places where you can find a lots of stuff. Especially in university libraries. They have all kinds of obscure stuff. As it is, like I told you in the PM, I have found copies of 11 different languages (including French). The rest might be in the dump heap of history or they could be out there too. But I don't need copies. I have other historical documentation that mentions this. I met your challenge to produce an example that the comic was produced in a language other than French. You, on the other hand, have proved nothing.

lol....Or it would mean that we finally have to get a life...... I think your assessment is spot on. I'm conflicted. Part of me wants to know, the other part likes the wondering. As to it ever being solved...I doubt seriously that it will solved - especially to the satisfaction of all - unless they are holding something back that they are not telling us. And you have to wonder about that, since the only reason this would ever go to court would be an attorney's dream of the entertainment and publicity to be gained from being surrounded by media on the courthouse steps. This isn't Whitey Bulger stuff. No one's going to prison. But that's just my take on it. I could be wrong. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

One of the two reasons I returned to post was because of two (*coughs politely*) inaccuracies, one of which YOU brought up, not I. First one was when *someone* claimed back there that the Cooper comic was published in 17 different languages. Prior to 1972, this is not true. I have not checked for anytime AFTER that date, since that would be moot anyway. That question, by the way, has been asked several times by possible collectors of the comic. The person who claimed that could have discovered the truth easily with a simple Google search. As I told you, Robert, when you pm'd me on this before the ink was dry on your declaration that you were through with the dropzone. You... are.... wrong. Not everything is obtainable through Google or Wikipedia. HOWEVER -- You didn't say anything at that point about 17 languages. You asked me to give you ONE, JUST ONE example of the Comic in another language besides French or Belgian (whatever that is) prior to 1972. You said, and I quote "I don't think you can" I then immediately gave you two examples - Dutch (pub in Netherlands) and Italian. Both prior to or from 1971. I even gave you links to the comics and the companies that published the translated versions. I asked if you wanted more - you did not respond to that. I also gave you -free of charge - a tutorial on languages of Belgium. You'll note that "Belgian" was not listed anywhere. Everytime you tried to come back with stuff like "well that's a lot less than 17" or "where's the publisher" - and tried to say it was probably anime, I was able to show you were wrong and school you in the finer art of debate. I explained to you then and now that the point was that the Dan Cooper comic was not only available in the French language as has been mythologized and the fact that comic Dan Cooper was Canadian and the comic was available in French does not equate to a Franco-Canadian suspect -- as has been put forth by some. Along with that was the fact that the comic was not distributed in Canada and was not widely available there so...... if you were wanting to equate the comic with Cooper you would likely be wiser to look across the ocean as it was available in Europe AND in languages other than French. You are so busy trying to one-up people that you miss the whole point of most posts. But I stand by my post. Once again, you are just wrong. Sorry. Why on earth you think that you can point out Cooper inaccuracies when your own work has so many is beyond comprehension. Finally....I asked you to post a link to one document that shows Kenny Christiansen spending large sums of cash, or a picture of him in a toupe? Just one. I don't think you can. You actually took this to mean that I cared. You don't get irony. That's okay. Lots of people don't. I finally had to ask you not to PM me anymore. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The jump location document says radar was used, Tom Kaye supposedly saw something that made him use the word SAGE, ckret mentioned radar but specifically said that tapes were not given to the FBI..... So we are pretty sure that radar data was available and was furnished to NW for plotting a landing area. Would this data normally be provided in tape format or would the USAF had plotted/printed the data on paper and given it to NW that way? Excerpt from probable jump locations document posted on dz: per Tom Kaye: per ckret: but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

There are a few pix & videos scattered around the web. For some of them, at least, they totally removed the airstair and paneled the sides of the stairwell. (see pic) In Norjak the stair was hanging loose, being held up in varying degrees by airflow and pushed partly down by the hijacker's weight until he jumped. The stair was not in the fully down position even when he was out on the end of it. this one might be from the same site.... a close up but not sure if you can tell anything. from here..... http://www.mfk-projects.com/skydiving.htm eta...you can't tell by the picture but I'm pretty sure he's yelling "Geronimo"!!!!

Seems like I read somewhere that Carol Abraczinskas was translating and reviewing all the comics. Is this..... http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?p=63407 the only outcome of that? ..(parachuting out of airplane and ransom in a knapsack...posted in 2011) Or is there more detailed analysis anywhere? Also ...has anyone seen any further news on this......http://www.pr.com/press-release/430979 eta... It's interesting to note that there have almost been as many myths about the comic as about Cooper - from even the "experts" - ever since Avion news published the article about the comic and Sluggo brought it to the Dropzone. (Apparently the story did not get much traction or notice from the public or FBI when it was first written about in the Sunday Oregonian in 1982.) For example, it is not true that the the comic was published only in French -- it was available in 24 countries and 17 languages. Also interesting...of the many countries that the comic was distributed, until at least the mid 80s Canada was not one of them. It could only be found in one Canadian paper "La Patrie" in the 70s. I guess you could order the books from overseas, but the notion that Dan Cooper was highly read and could be found on the magazine racks in Canada is a myth I think. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34BhEgO_es&list=PL5we3MsiXuidKuV5F8py3gEMy5NWpQeDS Also see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia and further information about interviewer techniques and bias: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/135532507X238682/pdf and Robert, what you said in your last quote that Quade posted above......This also can be said about you. I don't think so. But one thing I lean heavily on is what people say directly to direct questions. This is because you can record their answers and then check on them. This is how I discovered, for example, that Bernie Geestman lied when he said that he was gone ten to eleven months of the year to sea in 1971. We checked with a senior exec at Foss Tugs, who said this was not possible. I learned a lot by reading the book All The President's Men, which I think should be required reading for every journalism student on Earth. You get people on the record, you go for second sources, you check their statements. That's how you get to the truth. It's okay to make assumptions and present theories, as long as you qualify that by telling people that's exactly what they are. In the case of Cooper, no one has been perfect on every detail, but when you get your nose bloodied the best thing is to admit your mistake and move on, trying to find the truth. I am a big believer in this concept. Unfortunately, belief in a concept and practice of same has been a problem for us humans since the dawn of time. So far your practice appears to undermine your beliefs. Your book/pdf/web site advances speculation as if it is the truth when in reality you have never presented one shred of documentation to back up anything that others have told you. Additionally, the documentation that I, among others, easily uncovered proves parts of what you reported inaccurate yet you continue to advance it. It's called a credibility gap. To relate this to All the Presiden'ts Men - well, lets just say that Bradlee would probably send you back to the second shift obit desk.

You ignore the obvious. Margaret Geestman did a half-dozen interviews pointing to her ex-husband as an accomplice in the Cooper case. This same man went on national television and said he thought Kenny could be the hijacker. Witnesses have placed both he and Kenny missing the week of the crime, so offering an alibi might be more in order for him than tossing Kenny under the bus. In her final interview, Margie admits that Kenny was the guy who went missing that week with her husband. Bernie plays games with History Channel folk and gets caught in a pack of lies. Now Margie sells her ranch for a half-million dollars to the State of Washington and bails town. There's an old saying, Smokin. ***'Don't piss down my back and then try to tell me it's raining...' Yeah- I think of that one quite bit in this thread. But here's a couple more that you might try - just cause you're in a tuxedo and riding in the train with another equally well- dressed passenger does not mean you're going to the same party. Or my personal favorite- Correlation is not causation and A pile of crap does not necessarily mean you're getting a pony for Christmas. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Well, first...I didn't try to find out where she was. I spoke to the bank officer on the phone and explained about her relationship with Christiansen, the interviews, the investigation, etc. He asked me to send him the book and the KC report, so I did. That was the extent of my contact with him. The lawyer got the same documents in an email. I just figured they should know. Right ...and you're still looking her up on US Search because....??? Lol. I just related what was on the document. And offered logical, Occam-like probabilities to counterweight your shadow theories. But I'm glad you're finally starting to see reason. It's a good sign. Please don't patronize me. THIS is what I believe is the reason the ranch was sold. But it's strictly an opinion based on multiple interviews and what facts I was able to discover with Skipp Porteous, and to an extent, Geoff Gray. I've been looking up Margie on US Search lately because considering what is being said, maybe just ONE more interview is in order. lol...Right. And she left no forwarding address. As I said, that might be a hint. Robert. I am not patronizing you. As you pointed out to someone else in an earlier post. Lighten up. YOU said, in a rather patronizing way I might add, that you were glad I had all the answers. I responded that I was glad you finally saw reason. And that is a good sign. End of story. I know you guys want every action to be directly related to Cooper, but sometimes it just is what it is. There is nothing in the Geestman sale of property that points to ulterior (your word, not mine) motives. If there were, she would probably not have waited a year to leave. My opinion, based on reading the documents related to the sale - and logic. At any rate, since no one wanted to tell you where she went, the conclusion might be that she doesn't want to be contacted. But that's just a guess. Carry on. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'll have to check but I think it was 22 lbs. They put total weight with everything at approx 230. eTA: The 22 was just the money. Doesn't include bag and cords - Ckret put the total money load at 25 lbs. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

No one really knows. I'm thinking at this stage, to get the FBI's attention now would take a lot more than anyone has produced so far. Like that twenty you mentioned. As for the negotiable American currency, no one really knows how much weight to place on those words. There has been and continues to be speculation about certain foreign candidates such as you mentioned but so far it has been difficult to pin down opportunity and placement..... and then there's the language/accent thing. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Well, first...I didn't try to find out where she was. I spoke to the bank officer on the phone and explained about her relationship with Christiansen, the interviews, the investigation, etc. He asked me to send him the book and the KC report, so I did. That was the extent of my contact with him. The lawyer got the same documents in an email. I just figured they should know. Right ...and you're still looking her up on US Search because....??? Lol. I just related what was on the document. And offered logical, Occam-like probabilities to counterweight your shadow theories. But I'm glad you're finally starting to see reason. It's a good sign. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Maybe, just maybe....it had absolutely nothing to do with Blevins or Kenny or Geestman. Maybe she had the property on the market because she had not ranched the land in years, she was getting up in years and it was getting to be too much to maintain. Now she's got a pretty good offer from a buyer who is going to preserve the area and she takes it. Nah........that's too falippin logical. Margie had offers from the state before. She always said no, and was very adamant about it. Without speaking to her personally, I have no way to ascertain her motives for finally selling. It just seems coincidental that she would set up the sale about a year after the Decoded show and the book emerged. What do you want from me? And if she had no ulterior motives, then why did she set it up with her lawyer and the bank officer to keep her present location a secret? You have to remember that we're talking about a woman who was lifelong friends with Kenny Christiansen, and spent a half-dozen interviews over a period of about eight months pointing to her own husband as an accomplice in the hijacking. I could not ignore this. Then on the last interview she admits Kenny was the one who went missing with her husband on Cooper Week. I have her on voice with this, along with extensive notes. What would YOU think? Now, she cashes out for $491,000 and moves, leaving no forwarding address. That is a fact. Do you think she did this a year and a half after our last interview because of ME? Do you think she set all this up because of ME? Ummm. No. I think I made this quite clear. I don't think it had anything to do with you or DB Cooper - period. jeez...You say you have no way to know her motives - then you proceed to invent scenarios out of whole cloth. Though - I will say - for someone who didn't have anything to do with her leaving no forwarding address you are certainly defensive about the whole thing. Maybe she didn't want to have Bernie calling her wanting a piece of the pot. Maybe she doesn't want people to know where she is after she has just received a tidy sum of money. Or maybe she just doesn't want to be bothered...so tell me again why are you asking the bank president and lawyer where she is? Take a hint and leave her alone. Look, the documentation clearly says that the land was on the market and was not being ranched. Logic said she's not using the land, she gets a good offer, she sells it. She's in her 80s. This is a lady that once threatened to sue the town cause they fired her from her position of city clerk. She's probably not scared. She just doesn't want to be bothered. What is so mysterious about that? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Maybe, just maybe....it had absolutely nothing to do with Blevins or Kenny or Geestman. Maybe she had the property on the market because she had not ranched the land in years, she was getting up in years and it was getting to be too much to maintain. Now she's got a pretty good offer from a buyer who is going to preserve the area and she takes it. Nah........that's too falippin logical. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Duane was obviously a very dedicated trouble groupie. JFK, RFK, MLK, DBC... Somehow he missed it when the Pope was shot. You gotta choose your continent. A guy cant be everywhere. Hey, dont be so skeptical, it coulda happened. As my statistical physics professor said: "Amazing coincidences do happen, but not very often. The more amazing, the less often." 377 I don't recall stating Geestman and Duane were friends....I am referring to the woman who Rode horses standing. Was she the one married to Geestman? If Geestman was her husband then maybe Duane knew him. I do NOT know during which yrs Duane knew the woman - but he talked about her and not her husband on our way to Seattle from Vancouver. WHY the HELL do you think I want to contact her - she might be the last living person who knew Weber! BUT no BLEVINS keeps that a big secret - I don't want to talk to her about Cooper - I want to know if she remembers Duane - I would like to know this before she dies. If she is the one married to Geestman then maybe Duane knew both of them. The only thing Duane said about Paradise is the BOYS used to stay there. So Parrothead - if I stated that Geestman knew Duane - please direct me to that post! I'm not going to go back and look for it, at least not right now. But a month or so ago, you made a post that implied that Geestman knew that Duane was the real hijacker and that he played dumb with the Decoded guys because he didn't want to reveal that Weber was actually DBC. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something to that effect. You don't have to look for it. That is Jo's MO. She accosts every new poster that comes on here and either recognizes their style of writing or their avatar or their user name or whatever..... 9 times out of 10 that person has tried to contact her in the past or tried to scam her or tried to get all of her information or tried to whatever...... She tries to connect Duane to every single other DB candidate that ever was -- hedging bets so if Duane wasn't the actual man, he was the guy on the ground or whatever. I actually like Jo and I'm not dissing her. I have helped her with several things she has asked for and I will probably continue to do so as I see fit. I haven't a clue whether she was really legit when she first started this quest -- but I used to think that she at least believed what she was saying. But after a while you just have to say wtf??? Hey, Duane Weber might even be DB Cooper. Stranger things have happened. But over the years Jo has just gotten in too deep and tried to connect too many threads. I mean come on...every flippin thing that comes up does not have to be about Duane. *sigh* Jo is also not above a little manipulation. For these reasons, whatever credibility she ever had has suffered. Yep, Jo tries to pull the dumb blonde thing, but Jo is not stupid. But she does have an agenda and for whatever reason will not admit that, in some areas, she is her own worse enemy. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill