georger

Hey thanks Snow. Here's another resource: http://home.comcast.net/~a0000003/q703_frames.html but it does not seem to be functioning today. You click up a district and get relevant technical geology plus Ph etc.. I just thought maybe Safe had done some actual sampling at T_Bar. What we are seeking is baselines in the area around T-Bar. T-Bar specifically was skewed (71-80) due to the cattle. Have no idea what it is today. Its just one of those tedious things to be done as 377 keeps insisting on "results results". Thanks,

QuoteI would have to get caught up on the suspect, but when I first broke this on dropzone, the story on him was too incomplete for me to believe he had anything to do with the crime; mostly because I'd put him last of all the suspects discussed on this thread. But, I haven't heard any of the new information that has been released by Galen Crook Cook. There has to be more to the story, or else he's wasting all of our time. Now, as to the "peculiar" behavior of the man at the hotel, it was a matter of his late wake-up call request and his matching the description. I don't know enough to say if the witness claimed that he "matched" the early composite sketch. The weight you give that witness is up to you. I was only pointing out that there is someone that has gone on record; and no, I don't have a copy of his signed statement, but have read some of what he had said before. He made some posts on another thread on another website. REPLY> What other thread - what other website? What did he say? What is the ph of the soil at Tina Bar? Any layer you want to comment about. Tosaw! Tosaw! Georger! Georger!

QuoteYou know it sure seems logical that Cooper would have disguised himself. Reply> Why? Some people live life directly, and to hell with the rest. They manage to survive, for a time, in a cold faceless universe which is all about Entropy. Disguises are a vanity. (You are a fisherman. You should know all about that.) We sit here discussing Cooper. I think Cooper could discuss us just as easily. Georger

None of these letters provide a vital link, especially those that wish to 'make a point'. People who want to make points provide a transparent link LE would understand clearly. eg., the guy who says he left no prints. Thats funny. Now, if someone had sent in the rear door placard from the plane . . . imagine the reaction then. Oh! and if Duane had the bank bag as Jo says, then I guess we can rule out finding any fibres from the bank bag with the money. Right? Georger

I have given and provided to the FBI the information that may do just that. I have also given and provided to the FBI Duane's connections to other individuals who have been suspects...this information had been given to them before but this time I had MORE to offer because of things I MISSED before. As I have told all of you - I started going thru my old records a few months ago and started matching them with new information - hence why I have said recently that it goes right back to the very beginning... 1997 and 1998 information provided to the FBI at that time. These things are small, but very significant pieces of information that connect Duane to other suspects and could put him in a chute and /or in the company of individuals who had jumping experience. I have done all I can do without going public again - therefore for the time being this is the hands of the FBI. P.S. I do not get the information in the South about Gossetts widow (rather one of them). If anyone has a copy of her interview or can get me a copy I would appreciate it. I have dial-up and cannot view this on line. I will provide an address to anyone willing to mail me a DVD or Video tape of this. I question that if this widow knew he was Cooper why did she wait until he died? Why did this "Union attorney" have to dig her up? REPLY> I have a good idea. Why dont you turn all of this over to Sluggo and let him make some sense of it all, if he wants, especially since you wont let anyone else make sense of it ... but only jump to the next imponderable? This whole thing is like a square peg that will never drop into a round hole. Even chimpanzees would have figured that out by now . . . Georger

Hi safe, can you go thru the evidence and show which claim is more likely to be true, gossett or weber, and why? My take is that they are both equally likely. You've seen the videos of gossett's ex-wife and her belief that gossett was cooper, right? REPLY: My take is he was doing his usual (driveby) to tease, and is gone.

QuoteIf you're on the subject of witnesses, then you owe it to yourself to at least acknowledge the witnesses that are on record. As published in US News and World Report, there may not have been a witness to the actual deathbed confession, but there was a witness to the ramblings about buried money of roughly $173,000. REPLY> Ramblings. Exactly. Witness? What witness? Weber31:994 "....and in those days he walked on water and spoke in tongues . . . only the select shall know but there is understanding in the knowing and the proof of things to come . . . " so saithe the Saints! If you're trying to decide if the deathbed confession actually took place, this corroborating witness means it's more likely than not that it actually took place and was not some figment of skyjack's imagination. You can also look to the witness that has gone on record that worked at a hotel down the street from PDX right on Airport way (or there abouts). According to his repeated (and signed) statements, he checked a man in the night before the crime. This man, according to his recollection was taller than average and matches the photos he's seen of Weber. He can recall the name of the man, and did inform the FBI of the peculiar guest back in 71. According to his statement, he joked that the guest's name was like the drink, Tom Collins... the guest reportedly wasn't fond of the joke and replied "well my name's John, not Tom" REPLY> Let's put up a six figure reward for this witness.... now conveniently tucked away in China ! Why is it only Jo Weber has the light in this whole matter? Why not Britteny Spears! ?

In Cossey's hard pull NB6 no less. Put....him...in...a....parachute.

Ckret says the bump was re-created by the Air Force. Did these tests also re-create the Oscillations? (oscillation of rate of climb indicator). Georger

Interesting thoughts, georger. For people who didn't catch it, "The Peddlers' Shop" was the name of Duane and Jo's store in Pensacola. I always thought it was an odd name. Reminded me of the phrase "drug peddler" :) But georger could be right...it does reveal a little about how the owner might think about things? My reading is that it used Peddlers' in the plural, not in the singular Peddler's. (edit) I remember being in a comedy club in Florida in the '80s. Guy comes in with all these women, takes a huge table. He has I guess an early cell phone..one of those big blocky things. The comedian starts making jokes about him dealing drugs, and picks up the phone ...it rings and there's actually someone calling in looking to buy...the comedian got all flustered...that was funny. Jo would know but of course we will never get an impartial vita of what Duane did, and did not do, as an ordinary practicioner of life. There are many rumors surrounding Duane. He did sell antiques for a time. Set up a shop. etc. I suppose we could clarify that, perhaps even come up with some old ads and customers if there were any. My thought was if a person likes antiques that has a connection to history (awareness of?) and it may have been out of that vein (plus certainty psychological prerequisites) which lead to a fixation (projection?) on Cooper, in Duane's mind. Of course if Duane was Cooper then everything Im saying is hogwash. Georger

Just my opinion but I think we have to know more about the man personally to know his motive. In these pages a number of possibilities have been discussed but its all conjecture. Its no secret there were hard times in this area of the country during this period. That was the first thing my grandmother at Vancouver thought of - I dont think he had any backup, unless he had a revolver he was concealing, and the bomb of course. It turned out he had a friend, NWA owner Donald Nyrop who asked people to "cooperate". If you havent seen it you should visit Sluggo's website at: http://n467us.com/ There is a wealth of information there ... Georger

QuoteTonite's thoughts. last two maybe interesting 1) 1971: passenger jets and widespread civilian skydiving were new technologies. I always thought of the Cooper hijack as a technology exploit. Reply> I thinks that's a good connection. He knew a 727 was not a Cessna. He definately had some jump experience or knew enough to scale the jets parameters to something he thought would be compatable with a jump . . . Had they strung Cooper out more and not been so damned cooperative, we would know more. That would have forced Cooper to make some choices and reveal more of himself. Instead on instructions from Nyrop and for Tina's sake and their own, they literally bent over backwards to accomodate Cooper. There must have been a decision to opt for 'getting rid of the HJ' as their primary strategy. Maybe they sensed Cooper wanted OUT (maybe they sensed that at SEA) and so they played that card maximising everything to that end. They gave Cooper all the rope they could feed him. In searching for modern matches, my current best: Hijack an armed Predator UAV. First thought: "No way". Second thought "Hmm..Actually have no idea if possible, or impossible; what makes it impossible?" 2) "The Peddlers' Shop". Being in Florida, it makes sense that Duane was dealing drugs, if he was doing any crime. Reply> You have opened the door so Im going there. Peddlers Shop > antiques > a peddler of ideas and things > likes to read and talk> likes to imagine and fantasize > has a weak sense of history (antiques) > has always wanted a sense of importance & worth he did not have > has no faithe. Georger

QuoteBuzzardNest, When I was working at the Public Defender's office in Oakland CA, I had a seasoned old cop tell me, over donuts no less, that I didnt know criminals at all. He said: "Kid... you just know the dumb ones because you only deal with the ones who get caught." Duane's proven inability to escape conviction for routine crimes is evidenced in repeated jail and prison stints. Accordingly, he is not my top candidate for having accomplished one of the most innovative whodunnit crimes of the 20th century. He was an odd fellow and had some unexplained mysterious things in his past, but none of that puts him on the stairs of that NWA 727 looking out into a black cold rainy night and summoning his courage. His death bed confession proves zero with regard to Cooper. It proves only that he wanted to be remembered as Cooper, REPLY> There is no probative evidence the confession even occurred. By definition, the 'evidence' must be of a type open to examination. This is the minimal requirement logic requires, and as a practical matter the technical requirement of the Court. The same applies to Cooper. Cooper's was a crime of opportunity. I think you would agree. His genius, if there was one, was in his seeing an opportunity and taking it, but this alone does not qualify him as hero or genius. Crimes of this sort have a momentum of their own - a logic which tends to take over and drive the crime from beginning to end. Once Cooper had passed his note and began the crime., it was finitissimo for him. Once the basic requirements of the logic are set in motion, then the crime procedes and the instigator can become a passenger, even an unwilling passenger in the events his actions have set in motion. The Father of the child. He cannot say" Woops. This was a joke" Let me off", and expect the plane to land and all is forgiven and everyone laughs. Cooper could have done that and avoided the jump but it is not necessarily courage which has him complete to a jump. It could be rank stupidity and ego or a suicide! It is not that I necessarily disagree with your evaluation of Cooper, just that it is a bit more complex than you state. In the case of Duane we have a death bed confession (we are told). Where is it!? No notary or witnesses were called. No FBI. No Judge to witness a signing of anything. Jo did not call in a county attorney and say, "You must come here now! My husband says he is DB Cooper and ... " Not even a personal attorney or any witness of any kind. Just Jo. Nothing probative. What makes DB Cooper "probative" He was there. He came very close tobeing a corpse being hauled off the plane, except for Mucklow and the orders of Donald Nyrop. That is probative. Duane did nothing. He instigated and left not one piece of evidence of his own volition. It is all Jo says this, says that, . . . which isnt even a good third party UFO report in my book. I mean even my old friends in Project Bluebook will revert to a blank stare and avoidance of eye contact while saying: "You know I cant talk about that" ..... leaving the impression there might be something worth being classified. But these guys were always full of crap! Georger

Ok Jo. Here are pics in consecutive order: 1970, 1974, and 1979. Maybe this will help. The house was where? Georger

Reply> can do. I need a reference point, like the trees (attached). Tell me how far and which direction from these trees. . . ? Give me as good a directions as you can using the trees. USC 69 - WA 0 ! Waoh! Am searching for a repeat on TV as I type . . . Georger

Standing out at the waters edge it was in a curve - to the East there were trees jutting out into the Columbia on what I don't know - I assumed that area sheltered the bar from a lot of turbulence. A comment was made to me by Himmelsbach regarding this but I don't remember what it was. Staight across the river was wide and open - almost barren - the land across the river seemed to be low lands. To the West or NW I really don't remember what I saw - but the river continued to show a curve. I am not looking a map - only relaying what I remember seeing that day. I didn't want to muddy this with details and maps which seem to distort what I remember that day in May of 2000. I will remind you that the Fazio brothers and the fishermen in the area spoke of high water prior to the find - this high water was supposedly a snow melt in the prior wks. I would suppose this to be rising water to maybe the fence line...this would put maybe 2 ft in the area of the find. Reply> good post Jo. Thanks. Yes, it does not take much of a rise to bring water on to Tina Bar in this old days - the elevation and slope are gradual, as Sluggo pointed out much earlier in his fine graphics. So I post a few photos to possibly remind you of the trees. You might see something familiar. Georger

maybe, But I just brainstorm'ed the real way I'm going to flush out D.B. Just need a little help from a couple million others of like mind. (attached). reply> some people wont find that humorous. I do.

REPLY> surges exactly, been thinking the same line of thought. The whole situation with the Columbia and its tributaries is a series of surges - yearly cycles. (see attached) But I think the route by water to T_Bar is fairly specific and the result of a number of forces working together. Jo has always commented its open main channel water to the other side straight across from Tina Bar, and I think she's right on the money, as it were. One thing to think about in terms of myths. We've kind of accepted this idea that high water levels could be connected to the money find...really just because H. talked it up way back when. We know that if it was water transport, we probably needed water levels up to a point to get it on shore where it was found. From the pictures we have of the shoreline slope, the water level needed doesn't seem to be that much...it almost looks like every winter, from the data you have, the water might have been high enough to move money to the level where it was found (have to analyze that thesis more though). In any case, the notion of "high water levels" being part of a water transport theory, is kind of just a myth at this point...although it might help connect it to other theories, like being on dry land for a while. But I'm thinking a reasonable theory is money being buried in sand almost immediately in '71, and being moved over time. Maybe arriving at Tena Bar post '74 and being buried there. Just wanted to say there's nothing I know of that "requires" extremely high water levels so far? (edit) to be clear though, it might be reasonable to say "surges" are more important, since the money couldn't just be moving every year? So maybe one or two dramatic moves, as opposed to continual movement. It all comes down to physical evidence and that is what we are working on - This is all extremely helpful Snowmman. Georger

BTW, I wish we had a view of Portland-Vancouver from 10k feet ! If you have one share it!

I think you are right on the money. The missing link is 'the large package of myths and misscalls' which all began way back when, spurred on by reactive thinking when by all accounts this was an ordinary event and Cooper was ... about as Ckret says. Nature with its own complexity does the rest - Now a rhetorical question: Is the Cooper portrayed in the trsanscripts the kind of guy that would wrap a $100 bill around a bottle of champagne and give it to some woman he had just met moments ago in the lounge of an airport? Thanks - I think we are on our way - Georger

REPLY> surges exactly, been thinking the same line of thought. The whole situation with the Columbia and its tributaries is a series of surges - yearly cycles. (see attached) But I think the route by water to T_Bar is fairly specific and the result of a number of forces working together. Jo has always commented its open main channel water to the other side straight across from Tina Bar, and I think she's right on the money, as it were.

I previously posted after a long search flooding in 77 was documented, not a 100 year flood but flooding none the less. I wont dig and add the attachment again - it is with my previous post on this subject. georger, I replied to your post Sept 11, 2008 with a link to a corps of engineers report that confirmed what you said. I'll repost again: (edit) to be fair to what Jo's saying though, we don't have any detailed info about the Fazio ranch area though, in 1977? my 9/11/08 post: interesting document here: http://www.usace.army.mil/publications/misc/un24/c-15.pdf page 9 describes Portland District floods and flood control. Heavy winter rains in '71 and '72 '72 floods in northwest/west Oregon. '72 flood prevention effort. Temporary sand plug at the lower end of the Columbia Slough in Portland, to prevent flooding of North Portland neighborhoods. 100,000 cubic yards of sand spread over the railroad embankment west of Delta Park golf course. They say these two things helped prevent flooding. page 10 Jan '74 had flooding Nov,Dec '77 had flooding, as you (georger) say. So: the Columbia may have had high water levels in '72 and '74 also. Thanks Snow. Here are the water levels at Camas station Nov '74 through Aug '80. (USGS) High water levels in the Washougal and Camas get absorbed by the Columbia - same for tributaries on the Oregon side. So what may show up as a rather significant event over say 15-20 days in a localised area does not necesssarily translate into a major flood event on the Columbia, or for Tina Bar. 1978-79 was particularly quiet in spite of some contending it was these years when the money got transported by high water to Tina Bar. There was no high water during these years that I have been able to document. I will let the data speak for itself as regards 75/76 vs 77. Georger

SNOWMMAN AND GEORGER: I noted that you found no significant flooding between 1971 and 1980. I was on Tena's Bar in 2000 and Himmelsbach asked one of the Fazio brothers (who was present) about a flood the area had in recent yrs. There was no discussion of flooding from 1971 to 1980. Nor have I found any significant flooding in that area noted during those yrs. I previously posted after a long search flooding in 77 was documented, not a 100 year flood but flooding none the less. I wont dig and add the attachment again - it is with my previous post on this subject.

all good background - - - at its peak the Fazio operation was well known in the animal husbandry community and good with tours and organisational work. They are well known or remembered ... The description of their property post flood adds perspective. The description of how civilisation impacted their lives is accurate. In 1971 their situation still would have been rural... however, the bar does appear to have been a favorite well known gathering location for some time. Note where the location arrow points to in the Ingram article. In order for Tina Bar and the Fazio property to be flooded the area behind it must first be involved. This is well documented. attachd - Georger