georger

QuoteWHO WAS THE CHIEF ENGINEER ON THE VANE- I WANT TO KNOW. REPLY> MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS FOR A CHANGE! I KNOW AND I WILL NOT TELL YOU. Georger

===================== Snowmman

===================== Snowmman

reply - and yet another example of how he isnt thinking clearly - I confess I havent taken the Canadian comic book angle seriously until today. So, I ran this by a historian-genealogist friend of mine tonight. He said, "oh yea, that would make sense". I said "how so?" He replied, "The name Cooper has been associated with adventurism for a long time in literature and history. James Fenemore Cooper. So a serious writer might use the name Cooper for a hero, and if its a screw-up hero he might use some common name like Dan, not George-Washington Cooper. The Cooper name is founding-family stuff in America. The Coopers were among the first 26 families settled in the Shenendoah Valley of Virgina by Jon Richards under mandate of King George. They all fought in the Revolutionary War. The name is synonymous with adventurism. I'm not saying your DB Cooper knew any of this but it's a little ironic he would pick that name." Georger

Reply> Finally! someone agrees with me. $200k to me has always seemed a paultry sum given the risk and consequnces. $200k even in '71 wasn't that much in relative terms. Grudge or not, poor or not, what this brings up is scales-of-consciousness. We know he got giddy at the sight of the money and starts giving it away. Duhhhhhh! Earth to Cooper? We may be dealing with a brain-damaged individual here .... which Tina described as sad? A guy who reads comic books and enjoys them and thinks they are real? Who may act normal in the short term on the surface (saying very little) and be an incoherent lunatic under the surface. Maybe his note(s) were as much to remind himself as to issue demands! ? And, by the way, such a person might have a very keen social perception and easily discriminate stern (Schaffner) from sympathetic-cooperative (Mucklow) and select quickly for the sympathetic (Mucklow) and want her by his side for support continually. It cuts several ways: support, hostage, assistance, trust, willdo what I say... Georger

Answer 1. I am not aware anyone thought the night clerk had not yet been born at the time of the hijacking (seeing as 1971 is 37 years ago). I think the question snow asked, at least as i understood, not stated explicitly: a night clerk (or any hotel clerk job really) is not exactly the most intellectually demanding job out there. Sure, that is true of a number of teaching jobs as well, but would it be normal to expect someone already doing a job like that well into their 20s to then go and get a teaching degree and end up being so good that they get contratcs in China? And the answer could be yes maybe, but at face value, it would be unlikely. btw if the night clerk was 27 in 1971 (i think that was what snow said? is that true) that would make him 64 now, close to retirement and a strange age to be taking up contracts in foreign countries? Again sure it's possible...but unlikely? 2. Agreed. So why are there so many posts from you lambasting them for not doing anything about him? 3. Not worth what it would do to his life?? A second wife or whatever is hardly unforgiveable, and far less of interest anwyay than what he claims to know. I think this reason that you keep using is very strange. Far more people have real stuff to hide and still come forward to report on crimes. It's not like he would be the first witness in history to have his credibility called into question. Hey, he would be a hero if he helped crack the DB Cooper case anyway, so if his version is correct I can hardly see why he wouldn't go public. Of course, if what it would do to his life reveals deception of you and people despise him for that, sure then I understand it. I think we are beating a dead horse here. Isn't that rather obvious since at least 2005, by Jo's own account (10 years had already been consumed by the time of her post in 2005 she says). Obsessive-compulsive. It isn't going to change unless you enjoy joining her in it. Georger

The letter you posted I have never heard of and I find it hard to believe he had time to leave initials. He left the tie - that was all the FBI really needed. Reply - Snowmman posted the letters, not me. Somebody carved the initials. They are or were, a fact. Perhaps a prank after the Cooper event since there is apparently no documentation they were found during the examination at Reno. But, it would not surprise me at all if Cooper did carve his intials and left a calling card. He had about 30 mins to do it unobserved. Georger

QuoteI have posted the full text before. It was evidently copied to the NY Times, The Wash. Post, the LA Times and the Seattle Times. It was signed "D.B. Cooper". Supposedly typewritten? I'm intrigued by the sentence structure and particular phrases. Reply> few more - "Re: The D.B. Cooper Airplane Posted by: Pam Horton (---.hr.hr.cox.net) Date: December 04, 2005 10:42PM I flew many, many trips on the D.B. Cooper airplane. As I recall, it was N838N. We got it from Northwest. One of our now retired F/As, Barbara Johnson, had a whole spiel she told the passengers about the history of the airplane and D.B. Cooper. She would always point out the plaque at the back of the plane over Cooper’s initials. Some of the passengers were delighted with her spiel. Some of them had no idea what she was talking about. And, some of them were clearly alarmed. Barbara loved telling the passengers about that airplane and they did learn a little airline history in the process. Reading about that airplane brings up a lot of memories of flights that operated ORF-CLT-IAH roundtrip, and ORF-CLT-DFW roundtrip. " Pam "Yes. Many photos of N838N were taken especially while it was in NIT for final checks before it was sold. We knew it might be our last chance. We got the rear stairs extended and everything. Wasn't going to let that pass by without some documentation. I'm surprised it was taken to a museum." Georger

Ckret: I do not understand any of this mumbo jumbo - just way over my pea brain. Just want to straighten out some miss information to the forum: 1. The night clerk was in his 20's in the 70's not now.. 2. It is not my call if the FBI does not investigate his claim and his statement. 3. It is the call of the witness, if he decides to speak with the media - my advice is to be quiet and let the FBI do its thing...his coming forward publically is not worth what it would do to his life. The example of that is evidenced in this forum. Many witnesses come forward in lots of crimes - but, they are not exposed to the media for various reasons. I would not want to be responsible for the ending results. Remember - Been there, Done that. All of the rumors about what new evidence is available, right now just rumors - to name a few. The money, particial print found on the tie clip, initials carved on the plane (duh), DNA match - this is just the ones I have heard about from my contacts in WA...and NO none of them are or where FBI. What comes around is not always what gets around. reply: your former post to: Re: The D.B. Cooper Airplane Posted by: Jo Weber (---.ipt.aol.com) Date: August 04, 2005 02:03AM Shawn Demonica --- I am the woman whose husband confessed to being Cooper 11 days before he died. His history and background tend to support this. I have done 10 yrs. of research on him and the Skyjacking and can answer most questions you might have, but prefer to do so thru private email. If your mother had a story to tell about your father then if she is still living I need to talk to her. How old are you? I am still looking for his daughter --- Zona is all I know. Her mothers name is Edna and I believe they were Mormons. /the FBI investigated this and does not accept the allegations of this poster/

QuoteI have posted the full text before. It was evidently copied to the NY Times, The Wash. Post, the LA Times and the Seattle Times. It was signed "D.B. Cooper". Supposedly typewritten? I'm intrigued by the sentence structure and particular phrases. reply: more tidbits from Piedmont: "A friend of mine (who'll remain anonymous) sent me this further information on D. B. Cooper: "The guy who paid the ransom for Northwest was named John Ahlquist and was a middle manager with NW. He had to walk out to the airplane buck naked with the money bag his only protection from the elements. Anyway, John ended up as my boss at Airline X for a while, which led directly to my retirement from the airline. I did, however, come to understand why he was chosen to carry the ransom to Dan Cooper on the airplane. I am convinced that his bosses secretly hoped the hijacker would shoot him." ".....Dear Don, I flew the D. B. Cooper airplane to Denver one day with a flight attendent named Kim Loft. I told her we were making history and ask her if we should tell the passengers. After I explained that we were on the D.B. Cooper aircraft and reminded her she was the daugther of Captain Loft of flight "401" fame, she said hell no, "you"ll scare them to death Bill." By the way she was a sweetheart. Capt. Bill Morgan" "I AM WONDERING IF I CAN GET THE PASSHINGER LISTS FOR FLIGTS FROM SPOKAEN PRIR TO THE D B COOPER FLIGHT ? I AM DOING RESERCH ON DB COOPER . MY MOTHER TOLD ME A STORY ABOUT MY DAD AND IF ITS TRUE I KNOW THE ANSER TO THIS MISTORY .ISLSO NEED TO KNOW IF THERE WAS A ACSES PORT TO THE CARGO HOLD ? " /no investigation has been made of this poster’s claims/ " I flew as a f/a on that A/c many times.... DB Cooper carved his initials on the rear tail door of that 727-100 a/c... before jumping ...... I don't know who owned the aircraft at that time... (if someone knows that would be great...) Then DB Cooper bailed with his ransom.... but the money showed up way south ... Piedmont placed a plaque over his initials.... and I remember flying it many times... it was so neat..! Like a folk tail... that really never happened... ‘cept it did! I watched a story on the news a few years ago saying that he did not live and it is still a great folk tale... its real history... Yes... As I heard the A/c is now junked and now not around.. a part of history. Did someone keep the door with the initials?" Peg Georger

QuoteI have posted the full text before. It was evidently copied to the NY Times, The Wash. Post, the LA Times and the Seattle Times. It was signed "D.B. Cooper". Supposedly typewritten? I'm intrigued by the sentence structure and particular phrases. reply: Cooper left evidence, on purpose?, sloppy?, stupid? ....... who knows. If he didn't care then perhaps if he survived he didn't care and wrote a letter. Vanity? The letter sounds very vain to me. In the same vein it would not be out of place for this individual to leave a calling card on the plane.. "I was here!". There was a search and presumably no calling cards were found. It was in that context I brought up the initials dicussed elsewhere, many years ago. Sluggo probably knows about this - I will begin to post a few tidbits and people can bite or not. Will only say there are a lot of avenues which seldom get mentioned here, some never mentioned here, and they do make good reading. "PIEDMONT MEMORABILIA - The D.B. Cooper Airplane & Piedmont History: Posted by: Don Shanks (---.atl.mediaone.net) Date: February 23, 2002 04:34PM Ronnie Macklin, the keeper of much of Piedmont's great history, provides us with the following Piedmont trivia! On November 24, 1971, passenger D. B. Cooper, aboard a Northwest Airlines flight, hijacked the airplane. He was given a $200,000 ransom when he threatened to detonate a bomb. Cooper then parachuted from the back of plane with the $200,000 and was never heard from again! And yes, Cooper left his initials or something by the rear door before departing. An attempt was made to rub it out but then Piedmont hung a small plaque over the scratches. The plane's pilot was William "Scotty" Scott and he died this week of prostate cancer, in Green Valley, Arizona, at the age of 81. Piedmont Airlines bought the airplane from Northwest. At Northwest it was numbered N407US. Piedmont renumbered it as N838N and flew it in passenger service. The plane was eventually retired and later leased to Pratt & Whitney who flew it after placing a plaque in the front of the plane stating that it was the plane from which D. B. Cooper parachuted. Piedmont later sold the airplane and Key Airlines renumbered it as N29KA. Piedmont sold the airplane in September 1984. After we sold it, Ronnie says there were many aviation historians trying to trace it. They wanted to know if it was the "real one"! There were many people claiming that they had the airplane and that led to much confusion. Ronnie says that there is an entry in the log book in N838N about the hijacking and the bail out through the rear steps of the Boeing 727. After this particular hijacking, the airlines moved quickly to prevent the opening of the 727 steps from the inside of the plane. Chief engineer on the vane was ______________. A “vane”, (an air foil) was installed on the outside of the airplane just to the left of the air stairs as you enter the 727 through the rear steps. After takeoff the wind would hit the “vane” pushing it up and locking the air stairs preventing them from be opened while in flight. A very simple - - but very effective fix. After Cooper, there were no hijackings that used the rear steps of the 727 to jump from the plane. Ronnie says that the airplane was scrapped for parts in January 1993. The plane’s parts, probably like D. B. Cooper’s “parts”, are scattered around the world! Is it possible that the two of them. . . . . . naw! . . . . .well maybe! All for now." Geoger

? Hey Georger now you got me all scratching my head. But I'm going to bed! Good! That means I get to p[lay. Night! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ooh, very defensive there Jo. It's not like Snow is a tabloid reporter wanting to splash intimate details in the national press, and in fact I thought his questions were very interesting. How DOES a 27-year old night clerk become qualified enough to get a teaching position in a foreign country? "All goes to the credibility of the witness, your honor." (is that also the correct term for addressing a US judge?!) From Snow: Well said. (And Jo has the temerity to complain about being made "sick to the stomach"...) Jo, just because you want it to be the end of the night clerk subject, doesn't mean it is. Sorry. If you are going to present dodgy witnesses, well, don't be surprised when people become cynical about their "evidence". You may be prepared to overlook things that don't add up because he's told you what he wants to hear, don't expect others to do the same. I can understand exactly wht the FBI is not exactly falling over itself to track this guy down, why can't you?? Reply: why? Because the initials scrawled on the back door of N467US behind where the placard was did not match any known alias of Duane Weber, or any of the other imposters. How's that for an opener to your Night Clerk, Jo? Your move. Georger

Reply> What rape and murder? I thought we were discussing the DB Cooper case? Is there something about Duane you haven't shared? Are you hiding evidence? Don't jump on Snowmman! I'm the one who brought this up. U-bettcha! Why are you broking for the Night Clerk if he has legs and a brain and two wives et cetera. The only thing that surprises me is his job in China. Northern China. Mongolia? Tibet? Hell why not Mons Olympus on Mars or on the moon of Saturn called Titan!? I mean someplace really remote, like Pluto. The biggest problem the night clerk has (in this world), is you. The rest of us are just sitting like bees at a hive working away like it's an ordinary day bzzzz bzzz bzzzzz and you think its some secret code to the UFO invasion or something. Or did I trip another abduction memory? Georger

If Hicks found a bunch of the Cooper money what are the chances he'd report it and turn it over? Reply - or the others who searched the area? Probably the same chance others have had. Why? Are you going out to look? G. 377

Daughter of son of uncle of Chinese Ambassador.. ahhhhhhhhhhh, grandmother of mother of son of ... matrilineal! We can have that clerk and his ox at the airport in 24 hrs! Georger Reply: Wouldnt it be interesting if someone who has direct access to the current Chinese Ambassador was reading this, like the son of the former Chnese Ambassador. Stop the crap!? Georger son? I suddenly understood I had a unrealized bias when I found ltdiver apparently is not male? Possibly cat? At least that's my current guess. maybe ltdiver can confirm (or not). Why not daughter of Chinese ambassador?

Good point Georger. I have some snaps from the video that included Hicks, that showed a placard. There is another video with another placard. I always wondered if all the pictures we have of placards are really recreations. Do you know if the actual placard found is the one in the video, or just the one in the FBI-provided snapshot. It would be nice if you posted a picture of what you think the placard is/was, if we're going to start a placard discussion? ps. from one whuffo to another. If you don't know Jamey, then most of the other folk here are laughing at you. At least I know when they're laughing at me, I figure, say a little more than 50% of the time. Reply- The only photo I have the placard is the FBI photo, a piddling little thing. The worst of this is I had a chance to get a big photo of one of these standard issue 727 placards off a Peidmont site years ago, and I forgot and never saved the photo. Typical (of me). as for people laughing, let them, but I doubt it. There are people here who would love to question Jamey further. I am probably the least of these. There are some very smart people here with a ton of experience .......... Christ Im sounding like Jo!..... ............. I seriously doubt I am the only one who wants more from Jamey ... whatever. Georger

QuoteYeah, Jamey's account Reply: where is this Jamey who has firsthand knowledge, student of Cossey who was there in person when the patrol showed up for the chutes - without Cossey knowing? Cossey is still available. He was talked to just last week. Hmmmmmmm. Not saying I know something. Just saying "where is Jamey" ? Who is Jamey? Would Cossey remember "Jamey"? How come nobody I know ever heard of Jamey? How come nobody I know who know many others never heard of Jamey? Let Jamey surface. There might be money in it for him! Next topic: placard. When Hicks and others went back to search the area around Silver Lake after the palcard was found, did they find anything? They conducted the search on the assumption if the placard had come out maybe Cooper had too. Georger

Reply: Wouldnt it be interesting if someone who has direct access to the current Chinese Ambassador was reading this, like the son of the former Chnese Ambassador. Stop the crap!? Georger

no..it's not worth it. Like I said, you can't find an LBJ rubber mask online. Nowhere. If someone can, please post. Lester Hunt at AIG has them all in a vault. G.

Quote Georger- The "knapsack" was really the money bag, Reply- agree. No knapsack in the Toast. G.

"It's a dirty job" (John Wayne) ".... or I'll do the job, you dirty rat" (Jimmy Cagney 1944) Good luck Little Red Wing. Georger

Why not you? Things are sure quiet - that means the kids are up to SOMETHING. Someone quoted the transcript as saying that Tina saw him strapping on the knapsack. This is a big puzzle to me - IF he didn't get it why did she say he was strapping it on to him - she says Knapsack? Reply~~~~~ I quoted the transcript, below: Resume T1 transcript. 7:54 pm t1 MSP: As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land... 305: Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump. MSP: Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company and FBI) 305: Roger. In the above, it is Scott talking, not Tina. Scott's use of the term "knapsack"is generic not specific, an interpretation of what Tina said, ie. 'container full of money, carrier of money' ... not Eddie Bauer Knapsack model No. 34B-V. especially since they never delievered a knapsack to the plane to be given to anyone. They forgot it in the panic! That is my understanding of this matter pending correction by someone with better facts... It is very strange to me that you never miss a beat or a crossed T when it comes to other people's posts, while a whole camel can pass through the eye of a needle in your assertions and conjectures, and its the FBI's fault!. Whatever happened to your hotel clerk who was going to go to the FBI and explode this case forever? Your two weeks has elapsed. Not one word on the world stage. AP, CNN, FOX, and the FBI are all waiting, Jo. And with this pending you are worrying about the word "knapsack"? Knapsack-shmappsack. We want the clerk! Please explain why you have let the world down. Georger

Reply#: Why me! ? I didn't do anything!