georger

Nov 2, 2009, 9:50 PM Post #13669 of 13701 (292 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1719 Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point.

============ There was an excellent documentary on PBS with some wonderful and clear footage of Roosevelt visiting the CCC camps and having a meal with them in the field. Lots of joking around...BUT great footage of the times. Not once in this documentary did they credit anyone other than Roosevelt. Glad to have someone like you around who knows what goes on in the White House - we could use someone there today. The only thing this has to do with Weber or Cooper was just seeing footage from times before the 1971 hijacking. It showed the men in the camps and the hobos jumping trains. It was just having a feel of the the days when Cooper would have been maybe 10 yrs old. Having a father who was or wasn't one caught up in the depression and what if any bearing that might have on a man in 1971....who was himself in his 40's and coming into hard time. Most of us do not even think about the yrs during which Cooper was growing up and what was his life like as a young man. There were those of priviledge and there was the very poor. There were those who lived well until the depression and suddenly had nothing - living from hand to mouth. My be interesting to explore how Cooper had grown up. Had an interesting conversation with someone tonight - who has more on Duane than the FBI. This person will be providing me with some information that might be very suprising...for me and everyone else. Our illustrous FBI NEVER provided me or anyone else with the information I learned tonight - nor did the FBI ever tell me about the places Duane worked under the John Collins ID. I knew they had the capablilities to do this and I needed it for my SS benefits...but they NEVER offered even when I BEGGED. The FBI knew I needed this information for the SS benefits and someway to prove I was also the widow of John C. Collins. If the SS belonged to a real John Collins it will show dual employment for him - in different locations. A man can not be working for XYZ company in Alt and at the same time working for another in Maine. Also one of the prison records has several contacts listed - provided by Duane yet the FBI NEVER provided that to me...and they knew I was looking for one of the wives and her daughter. East Coast and West Coast - where were these guys 9 yrs ago? What was SO secret about Duane Weber the FBI could not tell his wife of 17 yrs? All I EVER wanted was the truth - and all the FBI ever did was LIE to me and hide information that might have helped me understand who I was married to. There should be a law against what they have done and their concealment of information. Maybe this guy doesn't have the information he says he does, but I think he does - he had NO reason to lie to me. The truth is never a threat, but concealment of the truth was NOT called for in this case. If the answers I have sought have been right there in his prison files - someone needs to answer to this (there is NO conceiveable reason for the FBI to lie and to evade information to a wife). Maybe the FBI was encapable of locating inidividuals named in a prison file given by Duane as contacts, but someone else did. The FBI didn't even give me the courtesy of acknowledging this information even existed...yet I have spent yrs looking for this very infomation. I think one would call that CONCEALMENT of facts that might have proven a man was innocent or quilty of another crime. These HOT SHOTS who call themselves FBI investigators need to hire the people who have been helping me. Will what the FBI didn't tell me prove Duane was Cooper? No one will know until it is checked out, but none of these people are alive now and if the FBI did talk to any of them I want to know and I had a right to know about these people. It there was a link to Duane's background in those names - do you really think the FBI agents of today would have had a clue of what they were looking for. It was just some contacts...and if they were not in the phone book they didn't make the effort to find them after all they were OLD contacts from yrs prior to the 1971 event. What do they think I have been looking for all of these yrs?

Maybe COVER-up is a little over board - but they sure did miss the hot buttons, especially if what I was told tonight is true. As for the commutation I didn't even know what it was - what bothers me more is that it is granted to John C. Collins with no mention of the aka of Weber and the fact the FBI would provide me with NO information on the SS for John Collins. Nov 2, 2009, 9:50 PM Post #13669 of 13701 (292 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1719 Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point.

You and others have tooted this before, BUT if that senario was true - don't you think he would have been sure that I understood who Dan Cooper was? I have asked before if the media or some other group ever made any fake tickets, stubs and bank bags to sell or distribute. If that is the way he wanted me to remember him - he would have been absolutely sure - I understood and he would have left more behind than the did or have been sure I understood what it was and were it was. Duane was not a GAME player and I doubt doing something like that ever entered his mind. A keeper of secrets - yes and he sure as hell had a lot of those. Nov 2, 2009, 9:50 PM Post #13669 of 13701 (292 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1719 Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point.

Duane was a pro. Duane was a con. Just joking Jo, but in the absence of hard irrefutable evidence linking Duane to Cooper, you can't tell whether he was posing or not. Show us a twenty. Show us anything unambiguous. You can't. Therefore it is entirely possible that Duane was posing as Cooper. You prefer the alternative though it it less likely than the poser case. You are free to believe what you wish, but stop blaming the FBI for your woes. You lived with Duane. You were in a far better position than the FBI to produce evidence proving your hypothesis. 377 Nov 2, 2009, 9:50 PM Post #13669 of 13701 (292 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1719 Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point.

Am I aware or been told of this information by FBI and is it recent information? I would appreciate an email or call from you explaining what this is. I spent over 3 hrs with an individual yesterday and sent him some information to research. This individual and I are on different sides of the fence, but has the means and capabilities to help me find some resolutions. If you are referring to what Jerry claimed about family saying Duane was with them - that one did NOT pan out. If the FBI has more information that can help me to resolve this then I need to be in the loop. Otherwise someone is making a decision on the basis of what they think they found or the opinions of someone else. I would be very interested to know what this information is about and I believe I am entitled to know. I have always been open to information about Duane that can be proven - just like is requested of me over and over. Anything I can learn about Duane is helpful - pro or con. Nov 2, 2009, 9:50 PM Post #13669 of 13701 (292 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1719 Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point.

Nov 2, 2009, 9:50 PM Post #13669 of 13701 (292 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 1719 Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point.

Georger, You claim FDR barely had anything to do with the CCC. The Congressional Record says otherwise. He touted it big time. 377 I stand corrected. I am wrong. History is wrong. Textbooks are wrong. NPB is wrong. Ken Burns is wrong. Louis Shamey, Ken Rariden, Ike, etal were wrong. The Wallace Foundation is wrong! 377 is correct! Maybe the Congressional record came AFTER the conception-launching of the program? Maybe eggs come after chickens? 377 has won the debate. Burn all the libraries!

OK, we will make a place at the CCC shrine for Wallace as well. 377 You seem to miss the point. Wallace conceived the program and enacted it, with Congressional help. FDR barely had anything to do with it! As a matter of fact when FDR finally caught on with members of Congress in motion and complaints beginning to surface from FDR's rich buddies, FDR damned near cancelled the program! The program hung in limbo for several weeks at which point Wallace went in to see FDR and slammed his fist on FDR's desk saying 'unless you want MacArthur shooting every citizen of the United States ..... with America going Socialist and storming the Whitehouse ......... that caught FDR's attention. Later the same day Eleanor Rooseveldt called Wallace and through her support behind the program in opposition to her own husband! So you can build your shrine to FDR if you want. Just know who and what you are saying? And what may this have to do with Cooper? Cooper hijacked his plane in the midst of very turbulent times in 1971. Weve talked a tiny bit about this before. If you had to look for an immediate cause or association for a 'grudge' (of a personal kind) it very easily vcould have been the turbulent times themselves, because that is precisely the association a lot of people made, both in and out of law enforcement. If Cooper did not have help before and during the hijacking, if this trully was an independent act on the part of some single person, then after the fact Cooper had very strong and deep social support for his act .... leading directly to his legend. That broad base is the corpse Weber feeds off claiming her Duane was Cooper. A Robin Hood! A Fun Guy! The other truth is Jo Weber knows very well Duane was not Cooper. Her strongest original claim was: 'Duane might know who Cooper was', which in itself was a stretch.

Jo, The CCC was a remarkable program that gave dignified employment to thousands of impoverished Americans and provided us with roads, dams, trails and other infrastructure that is still in use 80 years later. I learned this from my father long before it was taught to me in school. My Dad practically worshipped FDR and for good reason. My father was homeless, jobless and hungry when he was offered work in the CCC. He jumped at the chance to become a corp member and spent the rest of the Great Depression doing hard work, but getting clothed, fed and even a little pay. He credited the CCC for giving him a strong work ethic that endured for the rest of his life. I am not one of those right wingers who attack welfare on all fronts, but for unemployed Americans the CCC type of workfare sure seems like a better alternative. BTW, my Dad did fight many wildfires in the CCC, but as a shovel wielding grunt rather than as a smoke jumper. 377 per 377 well you are both wrong. It was Henry Wallace of Iowa, the Sec of Agriculture, not FDR, who thought these programs up and convinced FDR to go along, then Wallace enacted the programs including the CCC. FDR wasnt going to do anything! FDR then chose Wallace to be his Vice President during FDR's second term. Wallace was the most powerful VP ever to serve until Cheney! After FDR's death Wallace ran for President and would have won election except for a late night putz among corporate power brokers at the Democratic Convention who chose the nameless Harry Truman instead. That is how Truman became president and it broke Henry Wallace and gave us World War II and the Cold War. The power brokers involved at the convention included Rockerfeller, Kennedy, and several railroad and mining barons... they stopped the convention and the next day the podium would not recognise Wallace's name being put from the floor in a motion, and the Democratic chairman placed Truman's name in motion from the podium ... it through the convention into chaos and troops were waiting outside to deal with the crowd of angry people ... As usual, Jo doesnt even know what she's talking about! Is that any surprise? And it is through the same lack of even basic facts that Jo got involved in the Cooper matter, which Jo never did understand and still does not underdstand, but flaps her gums about like some total idiot on fire ... Jo Weber is literally one hand clapping the air!

Jo, That's just a wild guess of yours. You have no way of knowing that. 377 Jo Weber is a Troll and everything she says is a guess or conjecture or concoction and meant for maximum sensational effect, which keeps her active in the case (in her mind) - with no consideration of the cost. Jo Weber is simply out of touch with reality. The extent to which she is fed and kept going here in her self immolation is astonishing and perverted.

you have mail - I wish you would check your own without being reminded. As I said earlier, I am leaving for Sedona next week. Maybe we can talk in the Spring. Have a good winter. Adios. Good luck with your diatom quest. Im sorry you have chosen NOT to take the experts advice but I have grown used to this. You are your own man and know more/better than the rest of us. Take care. Georger

You have mail:

I think it has to do with density differences between air and target. I have seen birds hundreds of times at distances exceeding 3 miles on 5 KW boat X band radars. Furnuno sells a so called BIRD RADAR (S band) that are used by tuna boats to spot bird flocks at distances of over 20 miles. I spoke with a bird researcher in Hawaii who was using Furuno radar to track bird movements. He said that he regularly got returns from insect swarms at distances of several miles when the air was calm. He figured it out by observing and corellating close range echos visually with evening insect swarms. Most people would think a Pelican to be an ideal stealth aircraft, but they have a very big RCS and show up great on simple low power (2-5KW) boat radars. 377 In answer to Georgers question - I think that if investigated you'd find that birds wings are rather "flat". You need to look at the dimensions in terms of a wavelength of the radar in use (higher frequency shorter wavelength). As 377 said density also matters - but I am not quite in my domain as the only real radar work I have done is for GPR. Not density per se, but differences in dielectric constant at the relevant frequency for non-conductors. /... Materials can be classified according to their permittivity and conductivity, s (sigma). Materials with a large amount of loss inhibit the propagation of electromagnetic waves. In this case, generally when s/(OE) >> 1, we consider the material to be a good conductor. Dielectrics are associated with lossless or low-loss materials, where s/(OE)

Remember the Project Mogul balloon used to explain the Roswell "UFO" debris? It carried a string of corner cube radar reflectors suggesting that balloons may be poor radar targets. 377 I picked up on that too. Puzzeling. Balloons are poor reflectors due to their lack of flat surfaces or sharp corners. They are also helped by the fact that the surface is convex and tends to scatter the incident waves effectively reducing the Radar Cross Section (RCS). Obviously material reflectivity also plays a part. Then how about geese and ducks, which do show up on radar?

I picked up on that too. Puzzeling.

I keep lookingfor technical details on Heene's ballon but cant find anything .... so I attached the few pics I can find to my orig. post ...

Maybe literally! /Richard Heene had a well-documented criminal history with a common thread -- going ballistic under pressure. First of all, we've now found three criminal cases against Balloon Dad. In 1984, Heene was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon -- a gun -- and received three years probation. In 1991, in San Bernardino, CA., Heene was arrested for corporal injury on a spouse. It appears he was not convicted. Now get this ... we broke the story yesterday that in 1997 Heene pled no contest to vandalism and spent four days in jail. Wait 'til you hear what happened. Heene, a contractor at the time, had an employee who didn't get paid. The employee went to Heene's home to get his $300 and an argument ensued. We're told Heene got physical with the guy inside the house, the employee walked out and Heene gave him $140 of the $300 he owed. The employee, Benito Ortiz, was dissatisfied and the argument continued. According to the arrest report, Heene got in his pickup truck, backed up and apparently tried to hit the dude. The employee got out of harm's way and Heene struck the employee's VW. After hitting the VW, Heene pulled forward several feet, then put the vehicle back in reverse and collided again with Ortiz. But wait, there's more. Heene did it a third time. Finally, Heene parked, got out of his truck, picked up a wooden beam, held it over his head and screamed at Ortiz, "Get the f**k away." Heene later told cops .... during the conflict Ortiz struck him, he became "incoherent" and didn't know what happened next. In addition to four days in jail, Heene was sentenced to house arrest and ordered to pay $100 in restitution./ edit: photos added. Note the 1/4" mahogany underlayment floor and cardboard duc taped door to the balloon compartment - two 9volt batteries were found in the 5 gallon bucket.

somehow I missed that post but the point is well taken - exactly what I am driving at. The date of the report is 2005, not 1971/74/79/80 .... so can we conclude the same principles applied in the 70s as happened in one single case in 2005? I dont have the answer to that. Is there a current which has consistently flowed between the points cited in 2005, a current which has consistently flowed in that manner for decades? Again I dont know, but it would be worth looking into. If such a current exists and has functioned in the same area for decades (or was just functioning in the 70s) then perhaps we have our route through the Columbia to Tina Bar via Catplr Isle .... courtesy of the Willamette confluence? ... and that would be good to know. Are you suggesting this is the case? I dont discount this is a possibility. I just dont know that the single instance you cite is a universal ... Maybe this current has blue eyes too?

That electrostatic propulsion/attitude control scheme on the saucer balloon seems useless if there is any wind at all. You can actually measure altitude differences by reading natural field voltage. Stanford used this to make a wing leveling autopilot for a glider research project. It banked to minimize/equalize wingtip voltages. Saved a lot of weight compared to a gyro sensor. I am still pondering Georgers and Snowmmans outlook on the Tena Bar money find. It just feels unlikely and staged, although it probably wasn't. 377 I seriously doubt Heene's craft was sophisticated (Biefold-Brown Effect)? Probably just a bag of gas. A lot of people want a look to evaluate it. He chose helium over hydrogen - less risky and readily available. There is something in this that doesnt add up - and I guess Im not the only one saying so. As for Tina Bar I agree, it is suspicious unless one can show it has an equal or greater probability of being a debris sight (within a certain radius of something) to make it a likely place where C$ would turn up. I mean: if we took the Queen's jewels and tossed some in at the north end of the Washougal, some at the south end, some in other places, and let them all work their way into the Columbia, how long would Queen Mother stand at Tina Bar waiting? not too long my my reckoning. Or, lets make it brand new washing machines and driers, free to whoever collects one, but only at Tina Bar, after being released at various points along the Columbia. Would the Fazios show up to collect? All places are not equal, as viewed from the point of view of the specific factors brought that money to that bar. There is a reason for everything -

funny. no connection between the two. The metal foil on the baloon is interesting (an old principle) used to collect and discharge atmospheric electrons which can be used as a form of attractive ands repulsive steering and elevation control ... Heene said one of his concerns was that his son could be electrocuted ... ! not sure how real his concern was ie. how this craft is constructed or insulated. News tonight is he's been charged and faces a stiff bill. Woooooooops! There is something about the family dynamic that's a little bothersome to me - was this guy's back yard the appropriate place to be storing this thing? [edit] Some here will have heard of 'spherics' ( spheric detectors and such) which rely on electron balance and discharges in clouds; Henne was employing the same principles. We used to build these little spheric detectors (Amateur Scientist/Scientific American) and listen to approaching storms and record the data on our strip chart recorders) - similar data is still used today by meteorologists.

I sent you a parting email which you might want to read. Take care. Georger

Dont stretch your neck out too far!

377: I think you're evaluating it wrong. You're assuming there's nothing special about Tena Bar. Assume the money fell in the columbia. A dredge moves stuff from a large area to a small area. People travel on that small area. They don't travel in other areas. Assuming the money landed in the Columbia. If any money is found anywhere, it makes sense that Tena Bar is more likely than other places. There could have been money elsewhere, that wasn't found. Nice calcs but: There could have 'not' been money elsewhere, also. What makes Tina Bar special to you is people travel there so if there is money to be found anywhere it will therefore be at Tina Bar? Cooper could have walked the money there for the same reason! From a hydro point of view there is nothing special about Tina Bar until to add a few stipulations, especially from as far away as the Washougal. So either dredging has something to do with this or the bar being a public place does, or both, or something else entirely different? Now of you had looked at the money as the FBI did you would know there is something else. Tom Kaye missed it entirely and maybe for good reasons. The FBi had the money when it as fresh and uncontaminated. Food for more of your antics -

see below Agreed. definitely. \ Hi Jim. They did.