georger

Here are a few links. I read your post with interest Orange but decided not to get into it given the Great Consuming Light shinning on everything here these days. But the links are... Its interesting reading - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_recognition_ system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three- dimensional_face_recognition As for 'He Whose Name Shall Not Be Spoken': I agree with you. What total B.S. There is probably some very simple explanation vs the Apocalypse suggested. His original post used the "C-word" but then he deleted it, for some reason? How is the Burning Bush business there?

Kenny Christiansen may or may not be Cooper, but he is a suspect. You might want to accept that he is, or you could challenge it. Either choice is better than what you're doing now. I guess you will be marking your territory on the doorpost of Dropzone for some time to come. How unfortunate, especially since you've already been given an 'F' and dropped from the course. I guess the janitor will have to sweep around you?

Then WHY did you repost them all? To do you a favor ... so you wouldn't have to post them yourself 50 more times, stretched out over the next two months. Just think of the savings! Now you have time to post them yourself + what I have posted. Two for the price of one. Hey! Im your fan.

Really, Georger. If you don't think KC is a good suspect, then why in the heck do you keep re-presenting his case for me? You even ran them together so people don't have to search. (*laughs*) What's even MORE funny is you didn't even address any of the points I made in those posts. But that's typical, isn't it? I think you should apply this moniker to yourself. I'll give you this much. You do make me chuckle sometimes, same as Farflung. Only his posts have a bit more substance and the pictures are better. Duh? Play it again, Sam. Anything new? Play it again, Sam. Anything new? Play it again, Sam. This isn't Newsvine, Mr. Blevins. Rather than boring people to death and attacking me (again) for my response, why not change your tiresome redundant modus operendus and move on to something new? Is there anyone in there? Is there ANYTHING! new? Play it again Sam. [A line (supposedly) from Casablanca?] Duhhhh. I saw it before you were hatched?

Oh, yes I do. He had already spent five years servicing planes on a frozen rock in Alaska, and that was AFTER he went through some of the toughest paratroop training ever done (at the tail end of WW2, when everyone thought we were invading Japan) and completed that training when many others failed. Yeah. I think he had the nerve. He may have had someone else pushing him from behind during the planning. But I think after twenty-two years of NWA junk (interspaced with a few other jobs) he simply had enough and was open to such a crazy idea. Bernie is a liar. You can send him this post and see if he gets a lawyer because I accused him publicly of being an accomplice in the sixth-biggest unsolved crime of the 20th century. I'm not losing any sleep over it. Trust me. You said a couple of months ago that I would, that maybe you had contacted him. I can give you his address if you wish. He doesn't answer the phone, though. He's told more lies than Pinocchio, but lies can be broken and statements checked. He kind of forgot about that. These people, these witnesses, have had every chance to pick up the phone and call attorneys or dispute what Skipp Porteous and I have said. Think about it for a moment. Wouldn't YOU? It's easy money. All you have to do is call an attorney, any attorney, and file a lawsuit for defamation or whatever and I would lose everything. Yet...eighteen months after the original edition of the book came out, there is NOTHING from these people. Not a damn thing except silence and lies on the History Channel. The only reason Bernie agreed to drive a hundred miles from Port Angeles to Sumner for the Decoded interview was to do damage control. They caught him denying he even knew Christiansen, and trying to get his own sister to retract her statements. This did not work out well for him. And no one believed him. Not really. 'He's lying...' is all Bernie offered in response. The History Channel interviewed him for almost three hours. Less than three minutes appeared on air. He knows EXACTLY what went down on November 24, 1971. And so does his sister and his ex-wife, and some of his friends.

Play it again Sam.

It would be useless for me to deny this. Sure, I would love to be vindicated and find out later that the FBI finally names KC as the guy and presents proof that he WAS the guy. I do try and look at the bigger picture, though. Bear with me while I give some examples: Money? Not a chance. It cost us thousands of dollars to take time off and run around the countryside hunting down details and witnesses for the Cooper book. At the end of it all, Gayla Prociv was so frickin' angry at me about the whole thing that we actually had a fight about it. And she was RIGHT. Before the Cooper thing came along, everything was great for AB of Seattle. We had signed our wholesale distribution contracts with Lightning Source, and we were releasing maybe two or three books a year. We all have regular jobs, AB is not our main source of income. It was just something we all enjoyed doing in our spare time. Oh sure, we had hope that eventually it would blossom into something bigger, something for the future. But then...Cooper dropped into our laps. And because of that, it ended up costing us every cent we had to spare and then some. All of the thousands of dollars I made editing other peoples' books on the side. Gone. Our meager income from the royalties from the previous books. Gone to expenses. Everything was spent just to do Cooper. In addition, we no longer had the funds to release any new books, which means this hurt AB even further. Here we are now six months after the release of the Revised Edition, and Blast isn't even our biggest seller. That would be 'Pilot Down, Presumed Dead,' by Marjorie Phleger. This Cooper thing turned out to be a big fat mess that almost brought AB to bankruptcy. It has only been in the last sixty days where we finally got AB back on its feet. Even so, if you check our website, you'll see I've still got submissions closed until September at least, and I will probably extend that further. I have accepted one book privately, 'When The Bullet Hits the Funny Bone,' which is the true account of a Master Chief in the Navy Seals. I hope to have it out before Christmas. But that will be the only new release for AB this year. That means almost two years between new releases (except for Cooper) and this is really hard to swallow. Cooper? The heck with him. Since we're already out there with our theories on KC, I have to let it continue. But it may happen that KC will finally be proven NOT to be the hijacker, and then I will have to pull the book, take the losses, and move on. And that means everything I did, everything the AB staff did, will all be for nothing. If I had it to do over again, I would NOT have accepted this book. I would have advised Porteous to find another publisher, maybe a bigger one. We were not big enough to do this, although I think we did the best we could. I told a few people: 'I don't care anymore. I just hope the truth comes out on KC one way or another...' I once compared the whole thing to that scene from the film Armageddon, where the astronomer calls NASA on the phone and describes his wife, (substitute for the Cooper book here) as that 'life-sucking b%$#ch from hell from which there is no escape...' Truer words were never spoken. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing, obviously. One thing I discovered about the Cooper case, and for some of you this might be hard to swallow: The market for his story is actually becoming quite limited. There is some interest, but in the last forty years it has begun to fade. I made the mistake of believing there was a huge market for it. I went around one time on a little marketing survey and discovered that most people I talked to under the age of 30 had to be reminded who he was, even people from Washington State. That was a big surprise. I think the most fun I'm ever going to get out of this whole project is kicking back this year at Ariel with my good friend Greg, our volunteer IT advisor from Microsoft. We're going to rent a nice motel room and hang out there with our ladies at night, and attend the shindig during the day on Saturday. After that, I'm moving on from this Cooper stuff. Finally, the editing jobs are starting to come in again. Ha....I get more money from doing a private edit than the Cooper book makes in four months. That's no joke. So you can figure it out. I have to look at the bigger picture on AB of Seattle, and although the Cooper book is part of our legacy (which might have to be pulled later anyway) I am already thinking about a future that doesn't include Cooper. That SEAL book is three times the better book than Blast. And I'm looking forward to releasing it, and then a lot more in 2012...NONE of them on the Cooper case. Plat it again Sam.

We own all the originals and we have a signed contract from Lyle giving us the rights to all the photographs. Even the History Channel had to get permission from us to use the ones they did on Decoded. There is one picture of Kenny we don't have the exclusive rights to. It is his 1970 passport photo, the one used for the comparison pic in Geoff Gray's article. (See attachment) Nobody 'screwed' Lyle. It's the way he wanted it. He's refused money and told us he only wants to know the truth about his brother. There is nothing wrong with you copying those other photographs for your own viewing pleasure or personal use. You can find them easily anyway. If you start posting them up on the internet without asking, (and I will want to know exactly HOW you plan to use them) you would be in violation. Come on, Jo. It isn't like we made up those rules. They've been going internationally for a while now. Why don't you try copying sections out of Gray's book onto this site after it comes out and see how Crown Books reacts...geez. Fair Use says you can use a paragraph or two, and that's pretty much it. Look: If folks are sensible in how they plan to use them, it's just polite to ask first. This is why publishing companies have permission links at their websites. Ours is abpermissionsATgmail.com. I would probably allow usage of the photos as long as they weren't being manipulated, or used to trash Adventure Books of Seattle. Example: If someone called me and said they were writing an article on the Cooper case, I would probably say yes. This is traditional, and accepted practice. Alex Hannaford asked and we said yes. Those photos are our intellectual property, and every publisher on the planet guards their intellectual property the best they can. That doesn't mean we can't be reasonable about Fair Use and all that. We're not hard-asses here, you know. Plat it again Sam.

The illusion of central position - Play it ag'in Sam.

Really! None of these photos is your original werk. You got them from somebody else. So who-all copywrote or released them to you, if there are no original copywrites? What makes you the sole proprietor to copywrite them at all and for what specific proprietary use that allows you any copywrite? What makes you or AB Books unique? Have you even filed for copywrites on these photos, or is this just one more bogus claim where you are assuming legal rights to yourself you may not have at all ... should anyone wish to challenge it? I am willing to bet a copywrite attorney could tie you up forever on this . . . so be careful with your claims. How thick is your and AB Book's wallet?

Really? Fabricated? That's funny. We keep notes of all interviews, and many of them are recorded, some with video. Documents and testimony are verified and confirmed through other sources. Please don't compare me to those idiot prosecutors in Florida. Like the one who laughed while the defense was making their closing. Nothing is 'made up' around here. NOTHING. I might be wrong, but I don't lie. And although I can present a pretty good case on Christiansen, I don't say he was the guy for sure. Why? Because I don't know for sure. My only interest is the truth. I don't believe you would know how to create such a thing if the Book of Instructions dropped into your lap and fell to the correct page. Who can argue with the perfection, and hunility.

Georger I love it when you are Walking Tall - that has to get someone's attention. I do NOT know who Robert 99 is - but he is a obstinate know it all who quotes what others have said in books and articles. He never admits that he could be wrong when he is only using what others have written - note I did not say researched. Jo I hate to disappoint you but I know Robt99 pretty well and he is an extremely competent, highly experienced, and highly trustworthy person who I have great respect for as a person. I am speaking from experience. Whether I am taller or shorter is irrelevant. G.

If you can obtain better winds aloft information, please post it. Robert Nicholson I know! It are a puzzlement. I have been told there are wind aloft records but they are stored ... we discussed this privately and I confess I never spent the time required to dig them out ... I guess I wil have to. Life is HARD!

Ralph and the helo were all ocver the place, flrew north 20 miles or more... so Ralph's report applies to where? I dunno. His report cannot apply to PDX. Attached is the hourly record for PDX on 24 Nov 71. Ckret's report conflicts with Ralph's report? Maybe not. Who knows "where" Ralph is talking about. He may be speaking about what it was like 20 miles north of PDX-VCR ? And no report to date specifies what conditions were like above 5000 feet. It is those conditions which bear directly on what Cooper could see or not see from Malay south. (*I know where the winds aloft records are but I have never been able to pry them lose from the beaurocrats who have them ... ) There is one interesting aspect of the hourly records below, however. That is the shifts in wind direction which were happening that day almost hourly ... from SE to SSW to SW and back again. These are surface wind records. We still have no data whatver about winds aloft above 5000 feet. That data is crucial to this case. Who cxares what the surface winds were doing! It is the winds aloft which have always been crucial to this case and for that we have nothing.

By 19:50 the plane is climbing again through 9000 feet for assigned altitude of 10000 feet. The above happened in a span of 16 minutes. The stairs appear to have been opened 8 minutes into the event and 29 minutes before he jumped (20:11 approx). Cooper wanted an inexplicable level off at 7000. Cooper communicated trying to lower the stairs, level off and climb resume through some unidentified form (Tina or PA). Cooper had a wide time window to jump, yet delayed (assumed). Cooper wanted an inexplicable level off at 7000. For visibility reasons? To get his bearings?

Sure I would do this. Sluggo could serve as the intermediary - he has before if this is agreeable to you. I do have the passenger list if there is any doubt. G. NO! Sluggo is NOT acceptable because he is too bias - both pro and con. There is a young man who has genius levels far above that of Sluggo's and who knows this story far better than Sluggo knows it...he is young and will be among those who carry the Cooper Legend forward if we don't solve it - not one of us old foggies will be around in 2073 (just a random number with no meaning). I will not discuss anymore details in the forum - you know my private Email - you have me blocked from PM's in the thread. This is NOT something that needs to be set up in a public forum - because then it WILL not happen. I am not even sure I can pull this off, but "we" had talked about something like this over a yr ago. You are the only one I choose from the thread to participate in this exercise and that maybe all it will be. There is a poster on this thread who has been very helpful lately and lives in the N.W who I would also like to include if we can bring such a meeting to fruition without PUBLIC media involved and we may have to sign confidentiality agreements to do this. I do NOT want to overwhelm this individual. It will be quiet a financial undertaking for me - because I am sure he will want me to be present. Each person chosen to be there - has to be neutral and we know Sluggo is NOT neutral. You, Georger have shown yourself to be objective and neutral - you can be a baboon once in awhile, but I believe that you like myself want REAL answers - regardless of who Cooper was. You are NOT motivated for the notoriety or a book. OK. No Sluggo. Would St Nicolas be acceptable? (only joking) Let me think this over and I will get back to you off forum. Thanks - But... before I do anything about this I am going to enjoy tomorrow the 4th first, with family, and then back to business on Tuesday, or maybe even Wednesday. I suggest you take time off yourself and enjoy a day for a change. I recommend this to everyone! G.

Ckret's report: (The weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers. ) So where are the reports above 5000 ft? The crew report? Georger, There is some confusion in the wording as used in Ckret's report. I'll discuss that below but first I must make a disclaimer for Jo's sake: Jo, I have not personally interviewed the weathermen who produced the weather report Ckret provided, I have not personally interviewed Ckret, I have not personally interviewed Himmelsbach or Rataczak or Dr. Hawking or Bozo the Clown. So you will probably discount all of the following. Now back to business. The FAA Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge defines sky cover as follows: 1. Less than 1/8 sky cover is defined as "scattered, clear or few". [In my experience it is usually called "clear".] 2. From 1/8 to 2/8 sky cover is defined as "few". 3. From 3/8 to 4/8 sky cover is defined as "scattered". 4. From 5/8 to 7/8 sky cover is defined as "broken". 5. A 8/8 sky cover is defined as "overcast". 6. "Ceiling" is defined as the height above the earth's surface of the lowest layer of clouds, which is reported as "broken" or "overcast", or the vertical visibility into an obscuration. Using these definitions, the "broken" clouds that Ckret reports at 3500 feet would be the "ceiling". And the "ceiling" that Ckret reports at 5000 feet would probably be listed as an "overcast". If the weather information was available above 5000 feet, it was probably not reported by Ckret since Cooper would not be able to see the ground until he was below 5000 feet or maybe even below 3500 feet. Overall, the cloud cover was not good for spotting a parachute jump from 10,000 feet. Robert Nicholson Obviously what I am after is: was it clear at 10k feet looking down? Was it clear at 7000ft looking down for Cooper and the crew? I have yet to see anything which clarifies this ... to my satisfaction.

George Nuttall states in his book, page 95, that Ralph Himmelsbach (quoting the copilot) told Nuttall's research associate, Harry Grady, that the cloud cover below them in the Portland/Vancouver area was so dense that they could not see landmarks or even the glow of city lights. Robert Nicholson Ckret's report: (The weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers. ) So where are the reports above 5000 ft? The crew report?

Sailshaw, It is very simple. Cooper would know to jump when he got to the end of the steps. He wouldn't try to jump from half-way up the steps. So when he got to the end of the steps there was only one thing left to do. Jump! Of course, Cooper didn't know exactly where he was geographically. Maybe to within 20 or 30 miles. Robert Nicholson Im going to stick my neck out and ask: "how does he know anything ... to within 20 or 30 miles ... IF he literally does not know anything" ? Anything is anything! (or, does anything actually escape from a black hole? Do black holes eventuallycollapse? Hawking says they do.) Georger, I'll yield the points to both you and Dr. Hawking. What I was trying to say is that Cooper didn't know precisely where the aircraft was and didn't have any means to determine its position with any degree of accuracy. So when he jumped, with the weather being what it was, it was basically just a matter of walking down to the last step on the stairs and then taking another step. No need to hang around hoping that he could spot something familiar through a break in the clouds. And Cooper could only hope that there was solid ground down there somewhere and not the Pacific Ocean as Rataczak had suggested. Himmelsbach was right in saying that Cooper had guts. That jump was a leap of faith in more ways than one. Robert Nicholson Thanks Robert99. I dont even begin to compare with Mr. Hawking. That said I am searching for some files to come back with. In the meantime here is this from 1990 data, pub 1996-97. Its the sky pollution map for 1990-96 in the area of Vancouver-Portland taken in the Vband which is at ~5800 angstroms (yel green). What Im searching for is 1970s data which would have been a diminished version of the attached. One comment I have run across (from the light pollution guys) is a note for Portland saying: 'the urban centre was under severe decay in 1970 with rapid suburban outgrowth and expected sky light effects. The first generation of Velux lamps were installed which had a dramatic negative effect.' - whatever that means.. Let me work on this a bit before saying more. Farflung should be able to speak to this directly with what is seen at 10k feet under varying conditions? Thanks Robt. Hope all is well there. G.

Are you absolutely sure on this? I thought she only SHOWED him how to open the stairs. She said the last thing she saw before closing the curtain between First Class and coach was Cooper putting on a chute and tying something around his waist. Don't you think he would have done this BEFORE opening the stairs? That is not meant as a smart-ass question. It's a serious question. It was Farflung who you quote above - not me, if you are asking me.

Sailshaw, It is very simple. Cooper would know to jump when he got to the end of the steps. He wouldn't try to jump from half-way up the steps. So when he got to the end of the steps there was only one thing left to do. Jump! Of course, Cooper didn't know exactly where he was geographically. Maybe to within 20 or 30 miles. Robert Nicholson Im going to stick my neck out and ask: "how does he know anything ... to within 20 or 30 miles ... IF he literally does not know anything" ? Anything is anything! (or, does anything actually escape from a black hole? Do black holes eventuallycollapse? Hawking says they do.)

and when asked when Cooper jumped (when he thought Cooper jumped) Rat said '5-10 minutes after our last contact with him (at 20:05 ... and we had not crossed the Columbia yet, ... and ... ' The last part is debated. Snowmman drilled in on the last part namely "seeing" vs. "feeling" as to what Rat had meant (as being conveyed here by Ckret).

Jo. I have to ask - Whats the word down there about the Anthony trial? Looks like a helluva mess from here ? Too many discrepancies - if I were on that jury I would have to say - we do NOT have enough evidence to convict nor to say she is not quilty of the crime. My personal opionion is that she wanted to party and intended to put the child to sleep because she didn't have a sitter, but that she did NOT intend to kill the child. I also question WHY she did NOT call her parents so they could take care of the child. There have been so many lies told in this case - we may never know the truth. If she was going to use Chlorform that is a poor choice as there are so many other choices availabe she could easily have acquired. A little cough syrup or alchohol in the childs bottle would have put her to sleep for a couple of hour. It is also a natural excretion of decaying bodies or a dirty diaper - so there is no evidene the childs body was ever in the trunk of that car. The parents had a pool and they used chlorine in that pool. Could accidentally ingestion have killed the child or maybe even eating toothpaste. (I heard NO discussion about a child getting into toothpaste). There was a prescrition mouthwash my husband used that had heavy quantities of a chemical in it - did the child get into something like that. There have been so many lies told on the stands by every party that this whole case is a miss-trial to me. Thanks for your observations - I happen to agree with many of your thoughts. I dont think she called the grandparents in to babysit because she was trying to avoid another ultimatum with them - had already run that course and was hiding no job and her lifestyle. The whole thing is sad ...

I think this is your scenario - not Rat's. Rat's scenario conforms with the Transcript. Your's doesn't. Read the Transcript. Spend time reading the back thread ... it's all been discussed before as much as you dislike and ignore that. From Rataczak's interview for Into The Blast: As you can see, Rataczak confirms what I just said. Door opens, light comes on, stairs rebound, (Cooper jumping), light goes off, (stairs almost close momentarily) light comes back on for good. (stairs settle back down.) Kayn U reed'h ? Whatchu sayed was: QUOTETH: "Rataczak lays out the scenario clearly: 1) Airstairs open. Crew feels pressure bump in ears. Indicator light comes on showing door is now open in flight. 2) A short time later, less than two minutes at most, crew feels the plane bounce. 3) At the same time, the indicator light goes OFF for a second, and then comes back on for good, staying on for the remainder of the flight to Reno. 4) The indicator light came back on because when Cooper jumped, the stairs rebounded back to an almost-closed position for a second (light goes off), and then settled back down (light comes back on)." aw hell - you figure it out - whatever.