georger

I never said the jump was in great peril? I happen to believe the jump was doable for one who knew what he was doing. The central problem is your list above is not facts, but merely suppositions on your part. I never cease to be amazed how the Boeing engineers who say they were involved in this case, got so many things wrong! Their strongest talent has always been for self-involved Bloviation. I know people who worked with some of these guys who are still in recovery today! If one is to believe these guys, several Boeing groups calculated every possible force and vector involved in the whole Cooper hijacking, the bailout, the time and forces required to suck Cooper's loafers off, the breaking of his neck and twisting of his arms out of their sockets, ad nauseum bloviatrix! What these guys describe they did is so obtuse as to be believable! The net result of all of this prodigeous prognostication was the Cooper vane .... and they still didn;t know where he had bailed, but he was dead without any reservation. Nobody can survive bailing out of a 727, they said! They literally said: and that was fed to the FBI with some agents rolling their eyes and muttering doubts.

Yes, I suspect Sheridan Peterson as being the best suspect and was DB Cooper. He devised "the system to beat the System" as he said in the third letter (the one to the Portland Oregonian) and I heard he say over and over again while he stayed one month at my home in 1962. Bob In 1962-70 half the country and large parts of Congress were using the term "the system". "System to beat the system" was an SDS chant even in Salt Lake City and at Tabernacle Univ! So I dont know what that gets you. Petey was not special using that phrase. Cooper did say he had a grudge but so did 80% of the country. Things were totally fucked up for everyone, not matter what your niche. I am not aware of Cooper ever using that phrase aboard 305? Moreover, anyone with a third grade education who listened to the nightly news already knew "the system" was beating itself, that was the whole problem, so no need for another "system to beat the system". People were tired of SYSTEMS! That's the point. So if Petey was talking about "systems to defeat the system", then Petey was totally out of touch. Dont forget where all of this lead! To Nixon, Carter, and Stockman ... Petey spouting "Lucie in the sky with diamonds" is not unqie for that time. There is no way Cooper could have known that Nyrop would intercede and "defeat the system". Otherwise Petey/Cooper would have been a corpse. Try: "Geestman is a liar". It's in the same catagory of non-reasons.

About 1) above DB had a Para-Commander sport chute which he chose to not use (one of the four chutes and that is my prof he had access to it). The reason to discuss his not using it, is to show how smart he was and disprove "that he did not know what he was doing." And his choice of a dud reserve sewn shut over a fully functional reserve? This proves what? Your obvious answer will be: Reserves didn't matter, at least not as parachutes, to Cooper. keep in mind he ordered a backpack as well as chutes. So what was his demand for any reserve all about? The best we can get from this is people's opinions unless you have more? I dont see Cooper as being so 'smart' as he was adaptive. In fact, he let go several 'tells', if we take things he said and did at face value. He actually placed himself in great peril, made himself fully vulnerable, several times. If not for Nyrop, Rataczak could have had his wish very easily. (And Petey would have met his maker on the spot). So throw that into the equation, Boeing guy. Still waiting for your comments about route. Guess Im out of luck there.

I'm not sure... I questioned Carr about it. Maybe he posted here, e-mailed, told me, or stated it in an interview... at any rate, Carr is the source. If it is important, I'll try to dig it up. I don't know about everybody else, but for me, the previous DZ DBC thread, this thread, PMs, e-mails, phone conversations, and face-to-face discussions are begining to run together. Like the Flight-Plan forms I posted this morning... I'm sure I posted them back about 2 or three years ago, but I couldn't find where I had. Sluggo I did a thorough search and nada.

From "D.B. Cooper - The Real McCoy by Bernie Rhodes and Russell P. Calame: p.34 "But Cooper had no intention of going to Mexico. He had Tina Mucklow take up a typed federal aviation flight plan form to the cocpit, instructing Scott to fly...." This is one of the elements Calame/Rhodes uses to "prove" Cooper and McCoy were the same person. Since it isn't true, I have concluded Calame/Rhodes' whole book is bullshit. Myths + myths + myths + (a little) fact = Bullshit Sluggo, how do you know it isnt true? Thanks, G.

You still are avoiding the question: How did Cooper know where he was? There could be a simple pausible answer which does not involve trigonometry and celestial mechancs, but what is it? Possible answer: The plane had come from Portland so he assumed it would go back through Portland or closeby? He left the engineering up to the pilots and the system? Also: do you know anything about Cooper's note being on an FAA Flight Plan form as per Calame, Bruce & Blue Fairy ? Have you read Calame's book?

How big a deal would it be to post the sentences? GYNORMOUS, I guess. Forget it. What you say is out of synch with Calame himself. I talked to his friend ...

Also, DB made his selection when there was daylight and had no idea it would be after 8:00 pm There is some merit in what you say -n the second part, but as to selecting a route he had no way of knowing and did not know, which route they were taking, except by visual cues on the ground if there were any. As to after 8:00pm, it does appear his schedule, if he had one, got screwed up. We covered this ground here years ago. What botched any schedule was the long wasted period in the air waiting for things to be delivered, then what some say was an intentional stall at SEA (the fueling snafu). Cooper got very aggitated and finally demanded the plane get airborn. Any 'schedule' was probably fouled up by that point, but the precise route 305 would take south was never disclosed to Cooper. BTW, normal turn around time for the 727 refueling was less than 30 minutes. If Cooper id'd Tacoma from the air and knew the area from the air, perhaps he did find a few visual cues along the way. He does appear to have waited before bailing, maybe ?

Its too bad 377 isnt here to work with this - he has been looking forward to this for a long time. But surely some of you diver folks can deal with this and test it ... hope so.

377 will especially be glad to see you posting on the thread again. Hope you stick around. 377 may not be checking in for a few days - but he will be back. G.

That is exactly what my source for Calame says: It refers to McCoy's hijacking but has nothing to do with Cooper's. Pending further clarification(s) from someone ... Maybe Bruce will quote the passages when he gets time?

No, those are the cockpit notes written by Scott and maybe one or two by Tina? What Bruce (and evidently Calame) are talking about is the original note(s) McCoy and Cooper handed the stews, which alerted them to a hijacking. If I understand what Bruce is saying, Cooper's original note given Flo was written over an FAA Flight Plan form of some kind ? Bruce is saying this information is in Calame's book. I might as well add I literally just spoke with someone who has talked to Calame numerous times, and this matter of an FAA Form never came up, Calame never has mentioned this, and my friend says it is untrue that Cooper's note was on some FAA form, but only on a white piece of paper ... so far as my friend knows. My friend says that in all of his conversations with Calame this has never come up. That is all I know . I wish Bruce would surface with the passages from Calame's book which Bruce thinks support his contention? It can't be more than a couple of sentences, can it?

What is "FAA Flight Plan Stationary"? Have Farflung or Robert ever seen such stationary, or anyone else, whatever Bruce is talking about? In case you forget we already had testimony on the paper Cooper used for his notes. Smith's allegation is brand new. Georger, You can Goggle "FAA Flight Plan Form" and download a copy of FAA Form 7233-1 (8-82) where the "8-82" means that the form was approved for FAA use in August 1982. For general aviation purposes, this form only has to be filed for IFR flight operations and as otherwise required. I am not aware of any reason why this form would be on a commercial airliner. The commercial airliners were formally dispatched using other forms. If you flew the airlines in the 1970s, you probably noticed that at the end of the passenger loading the gate agent or someone else would walk on board, hand a flight attendant some paperwork which she promptly took to the cockpit, then step out of the airplane and help close the cabin door. At that point, your flight was on its merry way. Robert Nicholson Where (and why) would McCoy have obtained the form to be writing his hijacking notes on it - likewise Cooper if it's true? Sluggo must be choking reading this - its brand new?

What is "FAA Flight Plan Stationary"? Have Farflung or Robert ever seen such stationary, or anyone else, whatever Bruce is talking about? In case you forget we already had testimony on the paper Cooper used for his notes. Smith's allegation is brand new. Ok so tell us what "FAA Flight Plan Stationary" is. ................................................................. snowmman Dec 27, 2008, 1:24 AM Post #6585 of 23799 (4654 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Mar 30, 2008 Posts: 4497 cooper didn't write on ticket, right? [In reply to] Can't Post ------------------------------------------------------------ georger said: His writing on the ticket does not appear abnormal in size or slant or structure, in fact very simple and without telltale visual issues. ------------------------------------------------------------ I'm pretty sure we know Cooper didn't write on the ticket? (that was the ticket agent) There are no samples of Cooper's writing. We also don't know if the note was handwritten or typed. There are some claims in some articles, but Ckret has never confirmed?

Doesn't it sound really unlikely that Cooper and McCoy would use FAA flight plan stationary to relay messages to the cockpit? I am not a pilot. What are these forms and how are they obtained? I thought flight plans for general aviation planes were mostly submitted by phone or radio in 71. What is "FAA Flight Plan Stationary"? Have Farflung or Robert ever seen such stationary, or anyone else, whatever Bruce is talking about? In case you forget we already had testimony on the paper Cooper used for his notes. Smith's allegation is brand new.

Editorials are not reasons are not theories!

I was unaware of this Bruce. If true it would sure be relevant to the question of whether DBC and McCoy were the same person. Your source? Is it from the Real McCoy book? 377 Bruce makes other citations which may be factually wrong. So many historical experts - so little time!

Which reason in particular? I gave twenty-five of them, although it could be thirty or so. . I previously posted a point-by-point (reason-by- reason) reply to your 25-reasons, socalled. You bypassed it three times and never responded at all. Now you come back with this obscure "reply" above. You obviously dont wish to discuss anything but disgress off into smart-ass remarks which have nothing to do with anything, as usual. You might as well have replied to me: When will you stop beating your dog?". That would be as relevant as anything you've ever said so far. But I will say it again, Sam. My broad critique is that many of your 25 "reasons" are not reasons at all (about anything) but just editorial statements. Do you know the difference? At this juncture I dont think you do, or your whole tactic is denial and to hell with ever discussing anything (like an adult). I dont understand why you bothere to reply at all? Are you trying to educate me about something? When I subtract what are editorial statements (and not reasons) from your reasons list of 25, it comes down to four or five "reasons" which may or may not be well founded, and I dont think anything you have said on the whole KC topic is well researched or well- founded commentary. And I don;t think you know the difference or care. I am not the first to make this criticism of you, and I won;t be the last. "My aunt likes strawberry jam", is not a reason! "Geestman is a liar" is not a reason. Its an editorial statement. That is what I mean by "reasons" vs "editorialism" on your part. Editorials don't belong in a list of "reasons", be it yours or anyone elses. And at this late date, Blevins, I literally have decided you dont know the difference, are in denial, or will not discuss the difference between reasons vs editorialism, in any event. You refuse to admit there is any distinction at all! You won't even discuss it. You wont even do me the courtesy of using the words back to me, when I say it. It's all you and you and you and what you want to say. Me me me! Have it your way.

It's almost as if you blame me because the Bureau wrote off Weber as a suspect. That's not my fault, and it happened long before the KC story became public. So what explains the paucity (outright obtuseness) of your "25-reasons" and the fact you wont discuss it? Is it just the introduction to the case, and a real book, you intend to produce, someday?

Georger, Here is a little attribution and sourcing so rarely used on this thread. Beautiful. Ive already Classified all of this. Wont ever appear again, not even in China. Holy Jodpers! Maybe its Muckluks. I dunnoh.

That Amboy parachute did not appear to be pristine or laden with any sort of hardware. You can see this fabric is quite degraded (my estimate for purposes of exhibition only; please no wagering). reply] Looks degraded to me. Holes, pieces missing? Didnt Cossey say the dummy chute Cooper took had panels missing? Even if this is the dummy chute that doesn't mean this location is where Cooper bailed. But, the chute sure looks like silk, just as Larry said. What I am keying in on is the lightness of the fabric, and the way the fabric lofts as Larry is moving it around. Its airy. Nylon would loft differently - be a little stiffer? I'm just guessing here and freely admit it. But the chute is definately degraded ... not pristine whoever claimed that.

I would call this a serious response, for example: http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/30/5955262-the-25-best-reasons-we-think-kenny-christiansen-was-skyjacker-db-cooper I would call it "horse pucky" and parasitic. You keep repeating this same scripted nonsense as if it was some kind of phD thesis! I pity these folks you are going to be giving speeches to. That's a fact.

The Amboy chute news picture recently posted shows a lot of fabric degradation. Earlier statements about it's near pristine condition are obviously incorrect. 377 Looks degraded to me. Holes, pieces missing? Didnt Cossey say the dummy chute Cooper took had panels missing? Even if this is the dummy chute that doesn't mean this location is where Cooper bailed.

Better send H and Rat a printed copy of what their lines are sup'osed to be, from now on. Now that you are in charge - that is. Are you going to run for elected office? Georger, it's tough to answer your comment any other way... You'll let me know when you have any serious questions, right? On the contrary, Mr. Blevins, you avoid all serious questions. If you had not come here you would still be talking about the comic book! Be sure to include that in your speech.

Side Note: I watched the Adrenaline Hunter show on Cooper tonight. They got some of the basic facts wrong, but I did like how they disputed Himmelsbach's notion about the 'big storm' the night of the hijacking. They went to Weather Underground and checked it out, too. The heavy winds and rain didn't start until the morning AFTER the hijacking. Better send H and Rat a printed copy of what their lines are sup'osed to be, from now on. Now that you are in charge - that is. Are you going to run for elected office?