georger

He fits quite well. He was also consumed with "designing the system to beat the system" which he mentioned many times in the month he stayed at my house. The third letter to the editor (the one to the Portland Oregonian) was signed "the system to beat the system" DB Cooper. Those words matched what I heard over and over. This above, is interesting. I hope you arent pulling our leg and this is an accurate rendering of what Petey said to you - a repeated phrase. Because this is exactly what lead to Ted Kaczynski being recognised and caught. Similar repeated phrases in Kaczynski's early writings vs the published diatribe of the Unibomber. What other phrases or mannerisms did Petey sometimes use that you remember?

The finding of the DB money on Tina's Bar was also with held by Himmelsbach and Seattle FBI agent Carr first heard of it from the news media. Not true. A press conference was held almost immediately. Himmelsbach notified the media and invited them in with the Ingrams. Seattle was notified instantly. The media was all over the site at Tina Bar including in the air over the excavation. Where did you get the idea H witheld info ? The tall good looking guy in the middle, who looks like a P51 fighter pilot, is Himmelsbach. I dont believe Mr. Carr was even with the FBI in 1980 although I might be wrong?

Perhaps someone might be kind enough to put what Georger is stating in a format I can download and read. . Here. Its on Sluggo's website. http://n467us.com/Data%20Files/dbcooper_transcripts.pdf

And so why didn;t Sheridan specify a route? And avoid being taken out over the ocean, which they almost did! Why did he avoid the better steerable chute and select the old NB6, and the dud reserve? Why did he drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes? Why did he waste time screwing around with the money and make idle comments to Tina and how come he doesn't fit the physical profile including traits never given to the public? You do realise this guy can be ruled in or out very quickly based on 2 or 3 loci!

Better go back to those discussions you refer to above and read them. The FBI FOIA 'transcripts' are here: http://foia2.fbi.gov/cooper_d_b/cooper_d_b_part07. pdf Larry gave Sluggo a further Flight Comm transcript to share so no link except to Sluggo's website was ever available for that. The link to (a b F.B.I. FOIA file part 1, from F.B.I. FOIA catalogue on the Dan Cooper case,): no longer exists. The link to "Transcript of Crew Communications Retrieved February 25, 2011." now goes to Sluggo's website at: http://n467us.com/Data%20Files/Logs% 2006-20-2008R.pdf The original link to the above pdf "Transcript of Crew Communications " went to the Seattle PI, before Sluggo even had the transcript on his website, as I am sure Sluggo will confirm. This transcript was not, to my knowledge, acquired through a FOIA application. My copy came from the Seattle PI, before Sluggo even had a website. Your copy probably came from Sluggo's website later when you joined this thread here - But I mentioned this years ago and I dont recall what Snowmman had to say about it, if anything. I seem to recall not much was said at the time, so you may have missed my brief comment - overwhelmed by other posters at the time. People at the time were more concerned about parsing the transcript than examining its origins. And Larry bypassed the issue. The original PI link to the Crew Communications transcript was taken down long ago, now. There has been lots of discussion about the flight comms "transcripts" behind the scenes never posted here due to conditions here. That's a fact.

Sure but the redactions are obvious - words physically blacked out. I don't think it changes the conclusion on that subject at all. And no-one said it was a competition! By the way has anyone figured out which time zone the 7pm for the rapture is applicable? Tell me the history of the 'transcript'? Who gave it to the Seattle PI to publish and why? Why are jets scrambled to intersect with 305 at a time and in a place (directed by R2 etal) all while 305 is supposedly on a heading that is going to take it across the Columbia at Troutdale? The original concept about Cooper was very clear, at the time this happened and in the days following the hijack, in 1971. The original concept was scripted by a lot of technically trained experienced people directly involved in the case... and delivering their evaluation(s) to the news media and the public at large. That formed the public perception of Cooper which was "some guy who has performed a stunt, who bailed out of an airplane over the State of Washington with a bag full of money"! That was the allure of Cooper. He was just "some guy" who had pulled off a stunt and now had elluded being found or identified, and the search for "some guy" failed . . . His act was a stunt almost anyone could try! And he apparently had gotten away with it, or died, because he could not be identified or found by some of the best resources on Earth looking for him! This was the view supported by all of the experts at the time, ina nd out of law enforecement and the government. This was the basis for Cooper's allure. He fit the general curve of the general population, was a stunt man, and middle aged, with a grudge. This was the original 'theory of the case'. All other considerations came later ... much later. This is a skydiving forum with that bias. That does not mean Cooper had anything in common with the people here. And if you take a few lines from a redacted transcript without any of the context of thousands of words and actions behind it, then very likely you may be steered in the wrong direction and never break out of the mold of the assumotions you made, in the first place. For all I know Cooper could have been some grocery store clerk from Cleveland who had pracxticed putting on a wwII surplus parachute but who had never jumped out of a plane before, but who had an idea of how this could be done (based on his actual talents), and that may be more in line with the original theory of the case than anything else ? I'm not saying anything new here. Just reminding you of it, as if this was Dec 1st 1971...

Georger, I have NEVER presented Duane as having any expert experience - but that he had knowledge of those stairways and knew they could be lowered. My conversations with John confirmed that. I have recalled all I can of my conversations with John yrs and yrs ago. From 1996 to approx 1998 when his hearing became so bad - verbal communication became impossible. Take this for what it is worth - but, it is the truth. I communicated this knowledge to Himmelsbach as I always thought he relayed everything to the FBI - perhaps he did NOT. You can Believe it or Not. That is your choice! I have NO beef with you but do NOT put me in the same category as Blevins. NOT one time have I done this for my health or for money - ALL I want is the truth and for the FBI to PROVE Weber was NOT Cooper. The FBI wants me to prove Weber was Cooper and to put him on the plane - but they cannot do the reverse! I am sick of Blevins - Cooper DID NOT have Hazel Eyes! There where NO contacts in 1971 capable of making Hazel Eyes appear as DARK PIERCING BROWN! If you have any real knoweldge about the DB Cooper case, please present it.

Or so it appears. We assume. You assume. You have no proof that was the case, it just appears that was the case because, it appears no one had an instantaneous answer ... or was willing to speak on record? We assume. 377's version gels with the published transcripts between the cockpit and NWA: neither the flight engineer nor NWA knew. This was transcript so not about willing to speak "on the record" or not. The transcripts are heavily redacted and dont tell the whole story, in any event. I can prove that. That 377 still choses to ignore that is his bias. 377's version expands a few lines in a redacted transcript into a whole theory of the case, while ignoring what Cooper actually said and did. Larry saw this discrepancy and pointed it out. H and other technical advisors saw this and built the theory Cooper died. ... and crossed at Troutdale! This is not a contest between 377 and me!

Maybe... We really don't know whether Cooper knew a 727 could be jumped. The evidence doesn't really tell us. Logic says he knew, but that doesn't prove he did. People aren't always logical. My logic says he didn't. I base my logic on what he said and did. How can you 'know' a 727 can be jumped until you've done it or seen it done? He obviously thought it might be jumpable so he tried it. I dont expect you will change your opinion. Or Blevins or Jo either. He said the word Tacoma which lead to a search in Tacoma. He jumped out of a 727 so we say he knew how to jump. He mentioned flaps at 15* so now we think he had massive avionic knoweldge. He never mentioned Shemya or stealing lady's purses and welfare checks once! Is Blevins saying Kenny who has flown the 727 a thousand times didnt know how to get the rear door open and stairs down or calculate basic fuel consumption of the plane, with Geestman his expert advisor as backup feeding him info?

Flight Engineers learn a LOT about an airliner's systems and their operational limits. They were not trained about 727 in flight stair deployment. Their extensive systems manuals made no mention of that subject and shed no light on the possibility of flying with the stairs down. Nobody at NWA maintenance or flight ops knew. They had to call Boeing. 377 Or so it appears. We assume. You assume. You have no proof that was the case, it just appears that was the case because, it appears no one had an instantaneous answer ... or was willing to speak on record? We assume. You weren't there? And it is a convenient assumption to make, for lack of facts driving the development of assumptions. So from this layered body of assumptions we assume the rear stair data was so "secret" only three guys at Boeing had the "secret information". All that matters here, I think, is the knowledge that Cooper demonstrated. And what Cooper asked for was that the stairs be lowered before takeoff. Presumably all the way down? (Recall Rat's discussion about taking off etc...) So, whatever 50 guys at SEA and NWA knew or didnt know or whatever their various lavels of authority to speak and hand out information with "authority", we know what Cooper asked for and did. Moreover, Cooper asked for Tina do it for him, in the air! (Recall the discussion about having Tina tied down or not?) The issue is Cooper, not 50 guys at . . . or Jo Weber and Duane on Uranus! ??? They called Boeing. So? Who cares. Cooper took a concise direct approach He issued instructions with some authority, more than half of which turned out wrong! (Would the experts Kenny and Geestman and Duane do that given that they were experts and had special top secret info only a handfull of people on the planet had! ?). This is a clearcut example of Blevins vrs me. Blevins and Jo both are trying to claim their dopplegangers were edxperts and had access to expert info ... when in fact Cooper was no expert based squarely on his demonstrated performance and what he said and did. This is what happens when people foist theoir candidates off on the world. They usually forget about the real case, and the real Cooper. Wooops! Guess Jo and Blevins must recant some more... based on the actual evidence. In other words, this case is about Cooper, and none other. Let the next promoter shape his candidate and his theoretical bullshit, in the image of .... COOPER!

Huh? Eye for an eye? Village for a village? Abomb for Abomb? You obviously didnt mean what you said. You never do! Retraction No, 353437353436353343535 coming up. I don't know how to respond to this stuff. So I usually don't. You have a point buried somewhere in that vitriol? Had to ask. Thanks for the retraction. vitriol? That is yours. I could care less about your case or your personal issues. go back to sleep now.

On others things I can't absolutely prove, I will admit it's theory, but if you step up and make claims, then I have the same right: . Huh? Eye for an eye? Village for a village? Abomb for Abomb? You obviously didnt mean what you said. You never do! Retraction No, 353437353436353343535 coming up.

That's funny. I've been able to take the whole week off and work on my new book. It's a heinous crime novel. I love gangsters. Go to the homepage at AB and click on the music at the bottom of the page. (My fave is Grace Slick's rendition of Somebody To Love when she was with the band Great Society) Then minimize that, and reopen a new tab on the page shown below. Trust me. It's more fun that way. I learn from Farflung, who I consider a friggin' genius. http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com/abnewsandupdates.htm Don't go to the videos unless you shut off the music first, otherwise it gets REAL confusing. Your speakers won't know what to do with themselves. be obtuse. I dont care.

All you so-smart Cooper investigators are just finding out NOW that there is a website dedicated to people who served on Shemya? And that people actually post there? And that 99% of them identify themselves by their true names, the dates they served, and share their experiences? It's been around for quite a few years now. We do our research around here. As far as Geestman being the actual hijacker, I think the stews would have noticed his nose. It's bigger than Karl Malden's. He looks nothing like the hijacker. Sounds like youve had another 'bad day' on the rock pile? If I took myself as seriously as you take Trigger, I'd be Tonto too. And confused. (he may run for five miles with that!) http://www.hlswilliwaw.com/aleutians/Shemya/html/sh emya-mailbag.htm http://www.hlswilliwaw.com/aleutians/shemya/html/sh emya_guestbook_archive_040717-050417.htm http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!F2!CE! 2E5656A147E8/ImageBank/Project863/page2.html http://www.p40warhawk.com/WW2_Era/Photos/DougD ietz/LawrenceDietz/LawrenceDietz.htm http://www.flickr.com/photos/14844569@N07/sets/72 157614920578225/ http://www.kadiak.org/faw4/album3.html http://www.spyflight.co.uk/rivet%20amber.htm http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php? 87352-WAR-1973-US-Nuclear-War-Alert-in-1973&s= http://www.google.com/search? hl=en&source=hp&biw=993&bih=576&q=shemya+reco llections&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= etc. . .

That's sure news to me. Can't imagine it would help much given the availability of flaps and thrust reversers. Farflung, put on that old pilots helmet and chime in here. I'm neither a pilot or aero engineer, but this story doesn't make sense. 377 Sounds like Blevins knows his stuff and the boys skated in a few times at Shemya ... rear stairs lowered lowred to catch the trip wire, like on carriers. That's Navy stuff ... which leads us back to (where else but) .... DUANE! Been following Blevins' rant. He makes a good case for Geestman being Cooper - forget about Kenny. All Kenny did was drive the van and tidy up while his squeeze did the dirty work dropping 10,000 feet with a bag full of money. Kenny had nothing to fret - he hadn't done nuttin. Kenny probably taught Geestman how to put on the chute! And Geestman even looks like Cooper. Don't they all?

Jo, Surely you must see the futility in this line of investigation. The FBI cant prove a negative like that. Nobody can. That's why the burden is justifiably put on the claimant (you) to prove that Duane was a trained parachutist. Just showing he was involved in aviation isnt nearly enough. 377 I am involved in aviation. I have pidgeons on my roof.

She was caught in a family situation. History also reminded her that her book interview had been voice-recorded, which is another reason she couldn't retract. She had forgotten that, I guess. But as I said, she did admit that Bernie Geestman had called her and asked her to deny everything, and this is an important point. Domestic situation vrs. historical hijacking ? Seedy situation all the way around.

Good answers. Appreciated, Robert. Robin Powell might be worth a visit and interview, in or out of prison.

Bernie Geestman and his wife:. Both Bernie and his wife state they think Kenny was Cooper. When did they think this, going back how far, why did they think this, were they together and did each think it separately or together, and any proof they thought Kenny was Cooper clear back in the early years - before the present tense? Who did the Geestmans share their thoughts with, perhaps someone totally out of the loop who didnt even know Kenny? (everyone has someone they talk to and confide in). Did Kenny ever say anything to Lyle that made Lyle think Kenny had done something (noteworthy)? Its long after the fact, but Kenny had to have someone unrelated to these people he could confide in and talk to (about personal matters). Maybe someone he grew up with back in Minnesota? Some woman he knew completely out of the circle of these people, his socalled friends? A priest or minister, a confident ... maybe a fellow NWA employee? When did the bulk of his coin and stamp transactions occur and with whom, where? Before 1971, after, short period of time following 1971 or stretched out over years beginning and ending when? Who did Kenny confide in about his war experiences and his parachuting history? Did he comment to anyone about parachuting after 1971? What trips did he take prior to and after 1971? Its just a thought.

She slowly pulls the treasure into the single shaft of light from that Luddite entrance and reveals the treasure to be nothing more than a rusty trombone. Fade to black….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qswm7lHp7oY The trombone having been played by none other than Marshall Lohengren, in the third act of same, but Marchall was no relation to Wagner, who was related to . . . Griselda through Grace Jones' third cousin by a third marraige, Griselina, (fourth cousin of Wagner himself). Now if that isnt evidence I dont know what is.

We already know the DNA test has NOT been done regarding Kenny, this comes from Agent Gutt. And the reason given is the high cost of this particular test, which I hear runs about $12,000 or more, and the Bureau doesn't want to spend the bucks unless they get something more solid on Kenny than they have now. That sounds about right. Tests can be expensive, especially if some total dumbass gets involved and sscrews everyone up. I speak from experience. Good luck.

Your first question: Because there is no access to the attic from inside the house. Come on, I shouldn't have to explain this one. You've certainly seen attic access panels inside master bedroom closets, or elsewhere in a home, right? KC's place has none. You have to access it from the outside via a six-sided attic vent using a ladder. . No you Come On! This is the first time you are actually explaining anything. You require people to mind meld and guess. You are "sure" the drywall on the ceiling of that bedroom was never replaced since Kenny's time there? That the hole never came through some 'old' ceiling?

Makes you wonder why no one has done a God's Little Acre number on the grounds.

It's comments like the one above that is partly to blame why I don't bother coming around here much anymore. No one owes me any respect, but I've done a lot of thankless hard work on this case, and as a result I nearly drove Adventure Books of Seattle into the ground. And unlike many Cooper researchers, I actually interview live people, that's right, living and breathing folks, all of whom knew KC or his friends/cohorts well. Your Formica reference, I'll assume, refers to the fact that the board covering the wooden box frame built into Kenny's attic (just above his bedroom) was made from old countertop. You would be right. Two pieces of wood were cut to fit as cross-pieces between two of the joists. The cover is the Formica countertop piece, and it fits over the top of the box perfectly. The insulation in that attic is blown-in, and at least two feet thick everywhere. But in the box area there is nothing inside the box, although insulation was piled on top. We know from reports by people who lived with KC that one of the first things he did after moving into the house in Bonney Lake was replace the countertops. We believe the board came from a piece of the original countertops. We also know that the only access to the attic is through a difficult-to-negotiate attic vent on one end of the house, below the eaves. You have to remove some screws just to crawl inside. And use a ladder. Skipp and I wondered why KC would go to all that trouble just to make a hiding spot above his bedroom that cannot even be accessed from inside the house. Carolyn Tyner of Boulder, CO has already confirmed that indeed, about $2,000 in twenties was found in a plastic bag on the same side of the house as the attic access, but up the hill about a hundred feet away. She is certain on this. Dan Rattenbury gives the same story, and those two have never met, nor do they know each other. Does any of this prove that KC had the ransom up there, or the $2,000 on the hill was his? No. However, it is just another piece in a friggin' mountain of circumstantial evidence that consistently points to him as a very likely suspect. KC's thumbprint from his Army discharge papers is on its way to both me and the Seattle FBI. Porteous is asking them to compare the thumbprint to the 66 or so prints they collected from Flight 305. Who knows? Maybe they'll get a hit... "Skipp and I wondered why KC would go to all that trouble just to make a hiding spot above his bedroom that cannot even be accessed from inside the house." Have you failed to explain why this "hiding hole" was not available to access from inside the house? (two) Why would Porteous send the FBI KC's print when the FBI (US Govt) already has access to his prints? Dont you trust the Government?

How many Cooper "researchers" does it take to screw in a light bulb? Only Formica@ knows!