georger

10 to 1 he wont even talk to you. Why would he? Who are yoooo. ? Remember, you previously said there was no 'agent of record'. You were all in-the-know about that. Of course it only takes seconds to reverse yourself. Example from last night below: [(10) I will make some efforts to keep the peace myself. First, I will try to avoid any mention of the book, or to quote from it. But this doesn't mean I can't mention Kenny, because he is a suspect. vs. 11 1/2) I won't bring this up again, but I think it's funny that Bruce Smith and Galen Cook are working together and doing all those articles about Tina Mucklow. In one of them, Bruce talks about searching for her in Pennsylvania. Tina actually lives in Springfield, Oregon and she won't discuss the hijacking or look at pictures. I think the only way she would is if Cooper fans camped out front of her house and kept up a candlelight prayer vigil. Then she might relent, otherwise no. I posted the basic information on Bruce's blog, ('The Mountain News') but all comments are moderated. A sawbuck says he deletes it rather than letting it post. ]

So what you are saying is that you believe Christiansen was of possibly Balkan or Croatian descent? Because that's where the majority of people in that genetic group reside, with high occurences in certain parts of Scandinavia. Also, Haplogroup I in general covers about one-fifth of the population of Europe. Oh, yeah. You really narrowed it down there. And you came to this theory based on WHAT DNA test? I think 'well-tanned' is just as likely a conclusion as your conclusions regarding the possible ethnicity of the hijacker...which are based on nothing more than a couple of eyewitnesses who said the hijacker was 'olive skinned'. Blevins, (M253, M307, P30, P40) covers most of Scandinavia w/o Finland, and one or two Germanic lines. I said (M253, M307, P30, P40). (M253, M307, P30, P40) is a subset of H-I. Learn to read. You keep twisting everything looking for an escape. This really is the end. * I could be wrong! You tell the world, Einstein. Good fucking BYE.

No. Not because I say so. Because more than 45 pictures of Kenny in the files say so. Plus his personal letters written home before the hijacking. Only the pictures from nearly 20 years previous to the hijacking show his complexion as Straight Up Johnny Whitebread. And those were taken when he was living in Alaska for five years. In the others, he sports a real good tan. 'Olive skinned' is a generalized term. But no one has seriously put forward that the hijacker was anything but Caucasian and American. Even the FBI's original bulletin on Cooper states he might be from the Midwest. Nothing is said about ethnicity other than white male. Unless you are suggesting that Cooper was part Native American, Hispanic, or a mixture from another ethnic group, this leaves 'well-tanned' as a very likely reason the witnesses described him as they did. You are dealing in speculative generalties. My guess is: Kenny belongs to Haplogroup I-M253 (M253, M307, P30, P40). Cooper belongs to some other group with greater mutational variance. I would list the possibilities but it would be meaningless. If I am wrong, so be it. Can you offer anything as specific? You say: " 'Olive skinned' is a generalized term. But no one has seriously put forward that the hijacker was anything but Caucasian and American." Being Caucasian and American covers a lot of ground, sir! I have no idea what the basis of your statement above is, outside of being something you just made up. Evidently an opinion based on what? You can discuss it with others, in any event.

I'm not going to re-quote my entire post again. Here's my take on this stuff: You posted up a supporting comment on an article that was full of inaccuracies, without even questioning a single point in the article. And your comment came right on the heels of a phony comment by someone else who was obviously stealing Larry Carr's username. You didn't even question that. You just 'went along'. And if you do this, then I am going to call you on it, because you have been put up by others previously as being an expert on the case. Tom Kaye said this about you in an email to me: And yet you keep missing the boat. I vote that Kaye find someone else for this job. Whatever objectivity you once had is long gone. (i) Huh? I dont get it but it doesnt matter. (ii) Kenny wrote home saying he was as tanned as a potato chip, and 'that' passes Kenny through the Cooper ID filter according to you - meaning: 'Cooper was as tanned as a potatoe chip, not olive skinned but tanned as the major trait, and all witnesses were wrong - because Blevins says so? (iii) Lastly, I am not going to respond to anything further of yours, because there is nothing to respond to. If others here at Dropzone enjoy and benefit from your stupendously ignorant ravings and take you seriously, that is their problem and yours.

Robert says: I went to this article. Same old tired arguments against Christiansen that we've seen before. And some of them are wrong. Some quotes from the article: (paraphrased) (Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair complexion? We also have a letter from him to his mother talking about getting as tan as a potato chip. Witnesses interviewed said the same thing about Ken. He spent a lot of time on the beach during layovers. That's because, according to the US Treasury Department, and Cket...quoting his 2008 radio interview linked at Wiki...that the banks gave up checking against the list within six months at most, and the Treasury Department wasn't looking at all. (which by the way I consider a BIG mistake in the original investigation) The Bureau was letting the banks handle all the search against the numbers list, and bank tellers were overwhelmed. That's why the banks gave it up so quickly. YOU try working in a bank and checking every single incoming twenty against a list of 10,000 non-sequential numbers. Can you say MOTRIN? Then there are a few mentions about Kenny not quite fitting the general description. Skipp Porteous and I believe that the sketch is not bad, but that eyewitness descriptions are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. This is why police line-ups work better at catching criminals. Unfortunately, no one has been presented in a line up for Cooper. And there has been a lot of argument about the sketch over the years. The Picture: The writer of the article says the picture was taken in March 1972. Duh. There is a Christmas wreath on the door. The picture was DEVELOPED in February 1972, according to the time stamp on the front by the developer. So the writer didn't get that right. The writer of the article quotes another article from 2007. Again...DUH. Christiansen wasn't seriously investigated for another three years, nor were any of his friends and associates interviewed. Oh yeah, and the book was a few years away as well. Let's deal in today, shall we, instead of 2007. Here is what is happening TODAY: The FBI requested Christiansen's DNA in early June. Last week, they wanted two copies of the Revised Edition of Blast. I also sent them another info packet on the true names and addresses of the witnesses. There you are, I am telling the Seattle office. We did our work, now it's time to do yours. Hello...if the Bureau had actually ruled Kenny out, they would not be doing this right now. Hard Truths for you and me: The Bureau is taking a look at Kenny again. Maybe he was Cooper, maybe not. But they ARE checking him out again. Look, I have more on the line here than anyone else who posts up stuff on KC. And I'm willing to accept whatever the FBI says one way or another on Ken Christiansen. If they come forward later and offer definitive proof that Ken was not the hijacker, I will accept it gracefully and pull the book. I have stated this repeatedly. The only thing I will still be proud of is that we were able to help either confirm him as Cooper...or finally, without-a-doubt...eliminate him. It was the best we could hope for from the start, considering we never got a smoking gun on him, although I think we came close. I'm willing to live with the results of what is going on now. Why aren't you? But I wouldn't count Kenny out quite yet. Especially using an article mostly based on four-year-old information. I also noticed something else at that article. Before you start quoting Special Agent Larry Carr as 'Ckret' there, you should ask yourself if a pro FBI agent would actually say this: Right. This is obviously someone posting up and stealing Carr's username. No FBI agent is going to go public with a post like that, and if you read the entire comment left on the article, it becomes downright ridiculous. Here's another excerpt, supposedly by Special Agent Carr: Georger and others support this comment wholeheartedly. Sorry, boys...I have to call into question your credibility. You've lost your objectivity, your focus, and let it become personal. You actually BELIEVE that an FBI agent would make a comment like that with the same username he's used hundreds of times at Dropzone? I think the REAL Carr would have spelled 'dossier' correctly, but that's another story. I'm really surprised you would swallow a comment full of Title VII violations...and believe it was actually written by a current FBI agent. You guys must be desperate, no kidding. I think it's time for another Black Sabbath tune, which beats reading some of the junk I read at that article. http://youtu.be/xtqy4DTHGqg I love this version. They never miss a note. Quote 'As for Kenny’s little “secret” as told to brother Lyle, folks were still closet-homosexuals back in the early 1990's. No doubt that Kenny didn’t have the balls to tell his brother that he was a homo and banging younger runaway boys. Kenny certainly didn’t have the balls to jump out of a 727 at night after a heist. Porteous and Blevins need to quit calling our office too. We have a special hotline for them, which is now referred to an outside answering service. We pulled their dociers in total, and there wasn’t enough to spread around as chicken feed for Blevins. Mr. Porteous: you need to get some new friends...' Georger and others support this comment wholeheartedly. Quote. Blevins, you are spouting Jo Weber mush. I have never said ANYTHING like the above. But I am now convinced it doesn't matter to you what you say, or anyone else says. You aren't listening or even in a dialogue with other human beings, or care. Sober up or whatever. Good luck! Georger

I only quoted you. If you are going to say things, expect to be called on them. Maybe you need a reminder on this from the American Standard Version, Matthew chapter 15, verse 11: If you don't like being quoted, then perhaps you should consider your quotes more carefully. If you are going to put yourself forward on the Cooper case, you might want to become more objective and less personal. You'll get better results and people will take you more seriously. Let me get this straight. Are you saying the post attributed to Ckret on this website below, was me! ? http://www.unsolvedrealm.com/...ansen-not-a-suspect/ It isn't and was not my post. It isn't even language I would use. Moreover, the post contains information I have no knowledge of one way or the other, especially at the time whoever posted that post was posting. It sounds like somebody who knows you? This was clear back in May of 2011. The post starts out something about 'The Christiansen people ...' whoever that is. It also mentions Mr. Porteous who I don't know from Adam. I would never say something about someone I knew nothing about firsthand. It wasn't my post so you can calm yourself about that. Get a life, Blevins.

You still think Ckret actually made that comment? You've shown your colors. Now you have to qualify yourself for real or I may start considering you a clone of Bob Knoss. I saw through that comment in five seconds. Why didn't you? reply] WTF... get therapy. How in hell am I supposed to know who posted to that website. ? If it was Ckret or not ? And even if I did know what difference would it make? I dont control other people including you! Good night.

(Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair complexion? You keep posting BW photos and asking about skin tones and tanning etc. WTF is the matter with you!? Are you fucking blind, stupid, or what? *LAUGHS* You cant tell anything from a black and white photo, Blevins.

$ (Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair complexion? We also have a letter from him to his mother talking about getting as tan as a potato chip. Witnesses interviewed said the same thing about Ken. He spent a lot of time on the beach during layovers. _____________________________________________ Response: The witnesses said "olive skinned", not tanned. You can keep your potatoe chip proof! Olive skin is very suggestive of haplotype. KC's genetic inheritance probably derrives from one of the low variation groups endemic to his regional inheritance which does not really favor olive skinned as a genetic trait. Tanned and olive skinned may even be mutually exclusive in this case, as both a witness description and a genetic reality separating Cooper from KC. Olive skin is a rather powerful determiner if true as compared with Kenny's inheritance group (which is notoriously narrow in its sub class mutational variations). I would be very happy to supply you with references if you like since you previously claimed to be an expert in genetics. _______________________________________________ $ Then there are a few mentions about Kenny not quite fitting the general description. Skipp Porteous and I believe that the sketch is not bad, but that eyewitness descriptions are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. This is why police line-ups work better at catching criminals. Unfortunately, no one has been presented in a line up for Cooper. And there has been a lot of argument about the sketch over the years. ________________________________________________ Response: Your citation above only applies as a rule where witnesses have had little time and opportunity to see a person clearly. Both composites A and B fall into the same general facial-cranial class. This indicates both sets of witness interviews including the different sets of witnesses used all settled on common basic features. There has never been any serious arguement at all about the basic features witnesses agreed to. The source of arguement has always been from outsiders like you - who dont know what they are talking about and have a cause to pitch. This was not some midnight quickie holdup where the lights went out and people were rushed. The witnesses had hours to "witness" the person, both physically and behaviorally. Those witnesses who have been shown photos of KC have all been unanimous and said: "That's not the guy. All of the time these witnesses spent with Cooper was tantamount to hours of "lineups" ! How many lineups do you require ? _____________________________________________ $ Hello...if the Bureau had actually ruled Kenny out, they would not be doing this right now. _____________________________________________ Response: Hello! Anyone in there? It does not follow that because"The Bureau", as you put it, is taking a look at Kenny again." they are doing so for investigative reasons. There could be 50 others reasons having nothing to do with investigation.

Smokin99, You have asked some good questions. Cooper's actions that day were consistently inconsistent. Cooper definitely wanted a 727 aircraft and confirmed that the inbound airliner was one by asking the ticket agent, "This is a 727 isn't it?". Cooper asked that question after he had already purchased his ticket. To me, this means that Cooper had already checked the airline schedule (the time tables and aircraft equipment were widely published in 1971) and was just confirming with the ticket agent that there had not been a substitution of other aircraft that day. Why would Cooper pick that specific flight? I believe that others on this thread have stated that NWA had only started the Portland stop on some flights from Minneapolis to Seattle about a month earlier. In that same time frame, United also operated Minneapolis to Seattle flights with a stop in Spokane. Presumably, NWA would also have some nonstop flights between Minneapolis and Spokane. Remember that things were heating up with the Alaska Pipeline work in that time frame and NWA and the other airlines in the northwest were typically loaded with people and cargo. Assuming that Cooper was from the Seattle area, it may have been that he thought there would be fewer people on the aircraft from Portland to Seattle, compared to other routes, and that would reduce the possibility of him seeing someone that he knew. It also may be that this was the only 727 going into Seattle at the desired time (but I doubt that). But the weather was definitely not what one would want and Cooper was not dressed for a night in the rain soaked woods. The relatively late hour of 3:00PM when he took over the aircraft seems to have been another factor that was a gamble. Despite all this, Cooper went ahead with the hi-jacking. To me this suggests that Cooper was desperate and, for one reason or another, the hi-jacking had to be done that day. So basically Cooper rolled the dice and lost (at least in my opinion). Robert Nicholson The flight was added in August. (Schedule collectors produced a copy). He picked a 'milk run' 30 minute commuter flight (short distance) and the last flight of the day, after the preholiday traffic had already passed; likely to have the lowest attendance. (last minute businessmen and a few holiday straglers). He judged the attendance correctly. The short nature of the flight may have been his reason for asking if a 727 was going to be used ? He seems to have needed to verify the plane being used 'after' he had already purchased a ticket. He evidently assumed it would be a 727 but then thought to check. (He hadn't thoroughly checked on which planes were being used for this flight?) Im guessing if they had said 'some other plane' he would have walked away and waited for the day before Christmas, if he was still intent? He wasn't that hard up ? Were 727's always used for that shuttle run?

SeaFirst Bank, Seattle's once-most-prolific-bank, was usually open until 6PM. Funny note: also Puget Sound's most-robbed bank. They got hit so much it was becoming ridiculous. . Very late, the afternoon of the day before a major holiday Thanksgiving, was not a usual time or "usual day", as you put it. Not in 1971. Staff were let off early to go home. Cooper may have thought the ransom could be obtained somehow, or he did not think about it at all? How would KC and Geestman have rationalised this, in your opinion? Are you saying the execs and staff at SFB were a bunch of schmucks for getting robbed frequently? What's your point with that comment?

I copied and pasted Knoss's "stories" that were on Facebook (because it was easy)...Knoss really didn't get into his story on this thread. I did it because Georger and the rest of us really never paid attention to the stories Knoss fabricated. It had nothing to do with you....Just put his ramblings out there for all to dissect.. Here is the picture Knoss put on Facebook. The picture he uses to compare McCoy to "old McCoy" is Henry Sellick. I think he is a producer. Someone called him out on Facebook and Knoss quit posting shortly after. That's very interesting Vicki. Thanks for the hard work. The one thing I noticed about Knoss here was his creativity. Of course he bypassed vital questions or would respond with the exact wrong answer. In cases like this I try to ask questions I know the answers to (or think I do). Knoss was a comedian. But it got very tiresome. You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks! G.

377, See Tosaw's book pages 32 ff and 69 ff, possibly other pages. The statement about the rigger's card is in the second complete paragraph from the bottom of page 69. Notice the first sentence of that paragraph, just before the sentence about the rigger's card. I definitely thank the first sentence needs some clarification. Also, as a personal favor to me and others, could you get a bill through the US Congress outlawing the publication of books that don't contain indicies? It would save the human race a lot of time and frustration. Robert Nicholson Indeces are invaluable and the presence of one (or not) may indicate something about the nature of the work being presented? They take extra effort.

Vicki. Thanks for the recitations. Didnt mean to put to so much work. However, not one thing about bank vaults, so let's let this pass... cauze I dont want you slaving through more searches. Geof Gray called today early. Says he's ok. He thanked me and asked me to express thanks to others here also who have wished him well, so I will call Geof back when things settle down. Bottom line is: Geof is ok. He was driving in Arkansas on a mission when he called. He sounded good. G.

McCoy's jump seemed to be better planned. Cooper was taking a big chance of not being able to get any money from a bank since his hi-jacking was late in the afternoon with the next day being a banking holiday due to Thanksgiving. I don't know when the bank vaults were scheduled to be locked, but I doubt if anyone was going to hang around late on Thanksgiving eve. After that, it would be Friday morning before the vaults could be opened. Robert Nicholson Robt, where did you get this? Your own or from an old post of Knoss's ? Just curious.

This has been brought up before....by Bob Knoss. This is exactly his "experience" with McCoy and Weber practicing their "jumps" in Minneapolis/St. Paul. Good grief. What did he say? Can you summarise? I always skipped over his posts ... cant win! Thanks. G.

A practice run for McCoy by somebody McCoy knew? That the two hijackings are related. I always come back to this wild idea for some inexplicable reason I cant shake. Pay no attention!

ditto. He must not have been a detail man? (His crew: Geestman, Alaska Sally, and Bopo the tugboat either) ?

If the main chute that Cooper took actually had the rip cord on the right side it suggests two possibilities. Tina is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper did a complete "pre-flight" of the main chute as she was standing beside him. This included checking the packing card. The first possibility is that Cooper was left handed and assumed that he was jumping either an emergency or sports chute intended for left handed people. Second, Cooper was right handed but prefered that chute to the other one for unknown reasons. If Cooper was in fact right handed, then a right side rip cord would greatly increase the possibility of a no-pull unless he had some parachuting experience. It should be remembered that in the early 1970s, there were plenty of skydivers using a right side rip cord with a belly reserve. Perhaps Cooper had seen some of those. I personally have never seen anything in the FAA regulations stating that the rip cord for emergency chutes had to be pulled only with the right hand. But I have also never seen an emergency chute (either chest, back, or seat) that wasn't set up for the rip cord to be pulled only by the right hand. Robert Nicholson A practice run for McCoy by somebody McCoy knew? That the two hijackings are related. I always come back to this wild idea for some inexplicable reason I cant shake. Pay no attention!

Cossey had a strong alibi. He was fully exposed. Moreover, if I understand the events/facts correctly it was Issaquah that was initially contacted, not Cossey. Issaquah then contacted Cossey. And Issaquah would never have been involved at all until a specific event happened. The chutes were originally going to come from McChord. The chutes Cossey supplied at the last moment were personal chutes he had at his home, not at Issaquah. Had Cossey not supplied his chutes there would have been additional delay ... I agree. Sheridan was not totally unique. It's possible Pete was contemplating a sport jump from a 727. He had a history of attempting creative skydives (eg homemade bat wings). Lots of people had such ideas and communicated these ideas. Hijacking airplanes had become a fact of life. It was only a matter of time until someone would combine parachuting from a plane with hijacking. The particular configuration of the 727 made that inevitable. (and some engineer had probably anticipated what some criminal might try, but nobody took it seriously until it happened). McCoy even talked about it in advance!

The FBI didnt drop the ball, they asked Cossey if it was his chute and he said it was not. Cossey has no motive to lie about it not being his. In fact, he could make some money by lieing and identifying it as DBC's jump chute. If he still owns it, he could sell the item for a few thousand easily, perhaps a lot more. It would be good to know more about the Amboy chute but the FBI's mission is crime investigation, not aviation accidents, so I can understand why they didn't press on. I'd like to look at the chute. I could tell a lot about what it is and isnt just by looking at the ends of the risers to see what kind of connector hardware is there. I could also tell whether it is silk or Nylon. If it's Nylon I'd have some questions about Cossey's basing his answers on the fact that it was silk and therefore could not be the DBC chute from his loft. Why am I talking about the Amboy chute instead of joining the irrelevant catfight about nasty phone calls and misinterpretted posts? Because this current fray doesnt have much to do with Norjack. Lets refocus folks. 377 Refocus: you can select nylon vs silk by a simple burn test. Would take all of 10 secs. Maybe Carr already did this with his Bic? [The blind can do it by smell alone.] Silk is organic, a protein. Burns like hair or feathers (may even flash) to a clean grey ash soft with organic smell. Nylon is a hydrocarbon. Burns more slowly (will melt first, drips) to a hard black ash (carbon), with sharp acrid smell (electrical). {agents now pouring out of the Seattle office with a swath of the chute to test ...}

Maybe you better read ALL the posts before you speak up. Like you didn't catch the BURNING BUSH. There were multiple posts made by me about FIRE and igniting - but, I did NOT want to be the one to let the CAT out of the Burning BARN. Bless his pea pickin heart! Ole Georger was the only one who GOT IT. Sort of felt like he had his hand on my shoulder saying "GOOD GIRL" you aren't a dumb Blonde after all. My reference to BURNING BUSH had absolutely NOTHING to do with Geof Gray - I didnt even know until last night Geof;s apartment? (building?) had burned ... Bruce's post. My reference to BURNING BUSH was Biblical referring to voices and apparitions of a metaphysical kind which some people attach to physical events ... and \ read more into common events than there is! So... reading here last night about Geof's plight I picked up the phone and called Geof and volunteered to help him in any way I can, and I suggest others do likewise... if they are so inclined. That is all there is to this. In a like manner, I think Blevins is reading far more into his call than there probably is. Like Jo, Blevins has a bad habit of reading more into things than there usually is, if his posts here to Dropzone mean anything. In like manner: I have tried IN VAIN to push the idea that the Cooper Hijacking was NOT some special event involving some special individual but merely a selective event in one guy's life that encompassed (unfortunately) a lot of other people's lives, and then became a national folk tale. But my theory has never found much traction here, owing to the fact a few always dominate everything here and set the agenda which more often than not tends toward the sensational. Im sorry I cant offer more.

Unreal. I left Geof a message. Assume others will also. Thanks for letting us know Bruce.