georger

[That's very interesting, if it's accurate. It isnt. Blevins is FOS. Read this thread! Blevins is a self-appointed "legend in his own mind".

The questions get harder from that point. That was one of the easy ones, I said. I gave her a couple of days to consider her decision. Article was scheduled to come out this morning, but I'm holding off until Wednesday to give her a chance to respond. I hope Marla tells you to GFY. I think she will, which is the good news.

This LD person is probably the least convincing suspect ever suggested anywhere in this entire thread or its predecessor thread. . well apparently not, in the minds of a lot of people. At least in the beginning. The more Marla has marketed the story, the worse it has become, and may unravel now. That could be the birth of a new Jo Weber saying her relative was Cooper. All, just as the FBI closes the Cooper case, without comment. That might be a fitting end to the whole "fiasco".

And how did you immunize yourself against the hot blonde fever? Maybe you could share your meds with Curtis Ng. 377 Is that a criticism of Ng? You have special info or just trolling ?

There's one hell of a big, wide river between the suspected drop zone and PDX. Additionally, the Interstate bridge has no provision for pedestrian traffic. Anybody trying to walk over it would have stood out like a sore thumb and possibly gotten picked up by the cops for walking on an interstate highway. So if you're implying that he parked a car near the Portland Airport he wouldn't have had a way to walk back to it if he'd landed on the north side of the Columbia River. . Have you ever been to Vancouver or Portland? and please dont say there was no way in 1971 or Ill have to post more photos. Thank you.

you use that word ___________ a lot? Freudian? Blevins: get it through your head the weather at Portland is not universal to the whole northwest, or at 10,000 feet either. That's right, it wasn't. I was only demonstrating that it wasn't a big storm on the night of the hijacking, at least in the Portland area. If you like, I can link up to the Sea-Tac report. Conditions were similar. On a side note, I agree with 377's theory that Cooper probably just pulled the ripcord and let the chute take him right off the end of the stairs. Or he pulled the moment he jumped. My only addition to this theory is that I believe he may have backed down the stairs, rather than going down in a forward position. This is because the stairs would have been dropping, and carrying the load he had, he could easily have tripped and gone headlong down the stairs. Maybe one hand on the rail, the other on the money, perhaps. Stairs drop. He gets to the end and pulls the ripcord. Takes more guts than I would have had, that's for sure. Im busy. Be NICE for a change. Stop butting in . . .

Charts for the evening _ ich will post more as they become germane. View out the Back door of 305 (well without farm buildings! ) Simple. Basic. Potentially mundane. Pharisees and the Sadducees fire away. Marla! Look carefully sweetheart. See ya soon!

The length of twilight after sunset and before sunrise is heavily influenced by the latitude and elevation of the observer. In the Arctic and Antarctic regions, twilight (if there is any) can last for several hours. There is no civil twilight at the poles within a month on either side of the winter solstice. At the poles, civil twilight can be as long as two weeks, while at the equator, conditions can go from day to night in as little as twenty minutes. This is true because at low latitudes the sun's apparent movement is perpendicular to the observer's horizon. As one gets closer to the Arctic and Antarctic circles, the sun's disk moves toward the observer's horizon at a lower angle. As the altitude of the observer increases, the angle of exposure increases, allowing more time to set one’s orientation. The precise position of the polar circles—and thus of the regions where twilight can continue through local midnight—varies slightly from year to year with Earth's axial tilt and precession. The lowest latitudes at which the various twilights can continue through local midnight are approximately 60.561° ( 60° 33’ 43” ), for civil twilight 54.561° ( 54° 33’ 43” ), and for nautical and astronomical twilight 48.561° ( 48° 33’ 43” ) [4][5].

you use that word ___________ a lot? Freudian? Blevins: get it through your head the weather at Portland is not universal to the whole northwest, or at 10,000 feet either.

Applying Occam's Razor he threw 5pm in just to confuse them.

I am a very dull person, not too bright. I have simple thoughts. Complex things only confuse me. Lets say everyone was following Occam's Razor: Nov 24 1971 Sunrise: 7:21am Sunset: 4:33pm Wheels Off PDX: 14:53 (15:00) 3:00pm Expected arrival SEA: 15:30 3:30pm Refuel ~30min 16:00 4:00pm Take off: ~16:10 4:10pm Arrival jump area: 30min? 4:40pm max Arrival time wanted: ~4:00-4:15pm ! Sunset: 4:33pm Twilight jump - what night jump ? That is applying Occams Razor. So you see, if everyone had done precisely as they were supposed to, according to Cooper and Occam, there would have been no night jump - only a twilight jump, along an interior land route, just as planned/expected by Cooper. As it turned out, he had to make a night jump. That is another matter. I will consult the Occam Transformer and give the rest, later. You must allow that Cooper applies Occam also. Its not reserved for you alone. This is Cooper's hijacking; not yours. 73s . .

I tend to go with what is plausible and also apply "Occam's Razor" to what people say. ? The problem with Occam's Razor is that it is biased against complexity. The strength of Occam's Razor is that a common sense judgment is sometimes the correct one. The weakness of Occam's Razor is its failure to recognize that the cosmos is, in fact, hideously complex. The idea that the simplest explanation is invariably the best one sometimes fails empiracally. Who would have guessed that the orbital elements of the planets was elliptical? Not Occam, Aristoteles, or Euclid. Quite often archetypes are wrong but can serve as models against which actual observational data can be judged, and then modeled more correctly. Does this apply to Cooper?

Jo, please try 377 who is sympathetic to your cause. Im sorry, but its only in our mutual interest that I must decline. If 377 wants to pass something to me after reviewing it I would look at that. But 377 has no obligation whatever. Its between you and him. Take care.

Hmmm.... Interesting choice of reading. At least she knows how to use Facebook. Nice picture. thoroughly modern millie ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughly_Modern_Milli e_(musical)

Come on, Georger. This isn't about you or me. HUH? Mine wasnt a criticism but an observation of fact. Again: you are not the FBI or US Justice Dept. You have no legal powers, period. AB Books either. All you(pl) can do is opin and write stuff. Youhave no authority to do anything in this case except try and persuad? Thats not a criticism but an observation of fact. Stop being paranoid. Im not even talking about Marla! Thats not a criticism but an observation of fact. Thats not a criticism but an observation of fact. Got it now?

Why not talk to the FBI vs. RobertMBlevins-BI ? What can RobtMBlevins do, besides write another article at Newsvinyard? And if there is no evidence, and nobody can or will do anything, then precisely what is this exercise all about? Do you know? Have you a theory?

Robert99 says in part: Did Cooper no-pull into the Tena Bar area? Maybe. But the problem there is the lack of any other evidence found at the site. No chutes, no other money, no briefcase, no body. I think simply moving the flight path to justify the location of the money is too much of a stretch. What site are you talking about? If you are talking about the Tena Bar - Shillapoo area being searched in 1971, it wasnt. Simple as that. Why would it have been searched and by who? The area was not searched in '71. That area in 1971, btw, was also home to several hobo encampments stretched out west from Vancouver, below the railroad line that runs south to Vancouver (crosses the Columbia at Portland), with lines going west on the Vancouver side above the Shilapoo, then west to directly behind Tina Bar, then further west and goes north along the east side of the Lewis ... (goes north, split into several lines in those days, one line wound up in the Ariel area, another line goes back to Seattle. Weve discussed this before. Jo has posted extensively about those lines and knows quite a bit about those lines. Hobos used to ride those lines with regularity. The hobo camps were patrolled by the Vancouver PD and the Sherriff's office.) Look on a map or read past posts - (anyone else having trouble with Dropzone loading or is it just me?)

Then why is Rataczak also quoted as saying: "... and we could see the suburbs of Vancouver coming up". ________________________________________ The quote about being able to see or not see the lights of Portland comes from page 95, George Nuttall's book, where he has a copy of a letter from Harry Grady, his research partner. Grady cites conversations he had with Jerry Thomas and Ralph Himmelsbach in which, apparently Ralph H., stated that "There was a cloud cover below them [the airliner] when they passed over Vancouver [this would include Portland] that was so thick they couldn't see landmarks or even the glow of city lights". The above matter was discussed to death a few months ago in connection with Sailshaw's claim that Cooper parachuted into a field adjacent to the Portland Airport, then walked to the airport parking lot, retrieved his car, and drove off into the sunset, figuratively speaking. I have never seen a claim that the flight crew could "see the surburbs of Vancouver". But I have seen a claim, in numerous sources, that the co-pilot had said that the aircraft must have been "in the Portland/Vancouver surburbs" when Cooper jumped. I am not familiar with the writings of Popeye and Olive Oil. Sorry. snowmman Jun 10, 2008, 5:15 PM Post #2364 of 10320 (1452 views) Registered: Mar 30, 2008 Posts: 2458 Re: [Ckret] Interview with Tina's stepmom on 11/26/71 [In reply to] Can't Post Yes, It's also reasonable to assume that pilots would not be familar with cities without airports, like Vancouver. If they land at PDX all the time and are familar with Portland thru that entry point...everything approaching PDX at lower light levels may mentally be "suburbs". Especially since as noted, Vancouver was smaller then. It's just another important case to note where the transcripts might represent opinions at the time, not necessarily facts. I am positive Ratazcak was talking about Vancouver when he said, "we had not yet reached Portland proper but we were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity." Suburbs meaning Vancouver for the very reason you pointed out. &&& Thomas has been very critical of Tom's Kaye's flight path work. Didnt you work with Tom on Tom's flgith path analysis? How does your work and that of Mt. Kaye differ (on the flitht path) ? Could you comment on that? Isnt Kaye's flight path essetially the same as the FBI's (Eng's) flight path? Cooper's generation knew Popeye. I ama whad I am a whadda I am. Popeye is a fictional character meant to inspire and motivate people facing the Great Depression and then World War II.

The co-pilot of the airliner has been quoted by several sources as saying that they could not even see the lights of Portland when they passed through the area. . Then why is Rataczak also quoted as saying: "... and we could see the suburbs of Vancouver coming up". My quote is from an FBI agent of record who read the 302's. I also have other sources who agree. Where is your quote(s) from? All these different quotes from different sources is getting downright perplexing. How can there be so many (even contradictory) versions? If you have an explanation I sure would like to hear it! Is this like Popeye's complaint (1950s)? Popeye: " I can read writin when it's writ, but I can't read writin when it's wrot". Do we need Olive Oil to lead us out of the darkness? Who is our Olive Oil?

GreenElf: Sorry there will be no remaining money, the elements of time and the field mice have taken care of that. The chute still remains.As for any remnace of Cooper, it would be non existance. The ground in the area , even the area that was searched is harder than the ground near BUILDING 4 at FT Benning Ga where a few soldiers has streamed in. There Bodies were Mush.As is normal for this type of landing. I only mention that location because it is the easiest to verify.Still a search south of the Washougal Watershed will be fruitless. I have researched this case for 25yrs+ I have talked to many FBI agents and profesionals in there fields and those that were present in the original search.Ive talked to Both Scott and Rat the pilots. All have said a Columbia River landing was not possible due to the fact that the flight hadn't even gotten that far south yet.Now, Those that attended the symposim were lucky. Because in the audiance was a retired FBI agent by the first name of Gary , He was in one of the helicopters on the original search. He stated that the search area that was being searched was not as described by Tom Kaye he also said the flight path of the Aircraft was not what was published. After hearing this Info even Tom Kaye admitted that had he of known this his presentation would have been a lot different. The intire Symposim was recorded for future references, Jerry I am reposting your reply with Jerry's original comments above, so we all know what it is you are talking about. Hope you dont mind. The key quote from Jerry is: ' Because in the audiance was a retired FBI agent by the first name of Gary , He was in one of the helicopters on the original search. He stated that the search area that was being searched was not as described by Tom Kaye he also said the flight path of the Aircraft was not what was published. ' I also wonder what Jerry means by: "the flight path of the Aircraft was not what was published." Is that Martian for: "The real flight path was kept secret and (secret) had a false flight path published." All delivered to Thomas by Gary (secret) in hushed tones (secret)? Maybe Gary is now being stored in a box somewhere in a 10,000 acre underground vault next to the arc of the covenant? Published by who? In 1976 Himmelsbach himself issued a statement \ to the media which said, paraphrasing: 'We have revised our estimate of where Cooper jumped. We now believe he jumped some 12 miles north of Portland'. Himmelsbach did not say where on an east-west line he was talking about, and he did not mention the Washougal. Just "12 miles north of Portland". If you take that at face value there is no east-west line and H is talking about 12 miles north of Portland on V23. The above quote by Himmelsbach (1976:7) is documented fact. There was also a conference on NORJAK during the same time period, in another city and State, where the same estimate was cited, in a news release following the conference. The Washougal is not mentioned then. Also keep in mind, Mr. Thomas is claiming 305 came in 'right over the Troutdale Airport', east of Portland, just so you have that reference. So, if you go 12 miles north of Portland (as per H) and strike a line east somewhere near the Washougal (to have 305 coming in over Troutdale as per Thomas), there within some radius is where Cooper's bones are. ? Has Thomas searched that area? I think so. He basically told me he had and found nothing so moved his search north, and has been searching the north areas of the Washougal ever since, if I recall his words. I cant reveal the exact areas he has been searching because he swore me to secrecy, and I swallowed it. But as a historical note, you dont even get any mention of the Washougal until 1980, with the money find, so far as I know. After the money find everyone is talking 'Washougal', inside and outside the FBI. So, if some Gary FBI has indeed now revealed there was a Washougal flight path considered clear back in 1971, and they were actually searching that area in a helicopter, as the hijack itself was going on, that would be news, maybe, unless it was just some random "lets look there maybe?". What would cause H to make his statements in 1976, because that is factual history? One caution: Jerry has come up with "revelations" like this before, which proved false. I hope this is not one more Thomas Jackelope ?

This is hardly news. As for the rest of it....blah blah blah. Dan and Jo playing games, now we have Jerry and Georger bickering with each other... Bickering? None here. I deal in facts, not rumor.

Well at least you've finally had the balls to come out and say it, straightaway. No more sneaking around the shadows making snide remarks and casting aspiration, trying to create doubt in people's minds, one ear at a time. Making up stories. It makes me wonder, Mr. Thomas, if you were actually up to the job of finding Cooper even if he was in the Washougal. or if H picked the right guy for the job? What goes around comes around Jerry, and yours is a very low fast orbit, of your own making. I sympathise but at least now I dont have to hide it any longer. Its been years! Im glad to have your monkey off my back. Have a good life. At the same time it helps Tom, Carol, and Alan and frees them at long last - something Ive wanted to do for a long long time. Make no mistake about this! I have strong differences of opinion on some things with Tom etal, but, that's on a completely different level than you've been operating on, Thomas. At least now we can finally all be professionals and not have to watch for fallout on our heads, from your orbit. You cant even imagine what a relief this is for ME! Thanks BIG TIME.

Your Comments saying I should retire shows up in other areas on the internet under a different name. That is a lie. Impossible. But you did call me once and say emphatically: 'Blevins. We have to get rid of that guy and Im going to do it. I can get Dropzone kicked off the air. I know the advertizers. He's a threat to this case and the FBI'. That did happen. Do you remember that call you made? I would never suggest you "retire"? That would be liek asking a tree to talk and walk. One last thing: Get off my ass. And Im guessing Tom, Alan, and Carol feel the same way or are just laughing at your ridiculous attacks. Jerry you are NOT in their league.

I save words like "brightest" to describe those who, at the very least, can write a cogent sentence which conforms to established rules of grammar, syntax and spelling. Reading Jerry's posts is difficult but I do so because I enjoy a challenge, love doing word scramble puzzles and particularly like doing cryptograms. Your sentence wasn't meant to be funny but it's one of the funniest things I've seen in this thread. You wuffos ar[email]e a real trip! _____________________________________________ Further proof that Dan is just guessing. No trig required! The problem in all these cases is the same. Everyone is just guessing, without hard evidence to back anything up with.

Jerry, go preach your blithering ____ to the natives. Im home born and out of your league!