jcd11235

Shrub ran for reelection with character as an issue. His charitable donations are the business of evry voter, for or against him. The Whitehouse announced Shrub's donations to the media. That makes it the business of everyone in the world with access to American media. And the only claim I made is that Shrub did not donate 3% of his income as you claim. He didn't even donate three percent of his salary as POTUS. Get over it. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I am trouble understanding how you jumped from the first statement to the last. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, only trying to follow the logic. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Let's stay topical, shall we? We already have a thread for that discussion, let's not hijack another with wild misquotes. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

You admit neglegence then? Or are you claiming Shrub was merely incompetent? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Let's be specific, Ron. Payne stewart died in October of 1999. How is this before September 11. 2001? Yup. Back at you. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Like Isaid, Ron. I have already addressed all your concerns, but you insist on twisting my words to make you look more credible. It doesn't matter how many times you say I said things I didn't, or how many times you quote me out of context, it doesn't change what I said or meant. Thanks for playing, though. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Why was it not used? Tested or not, it was procedure. If it was not implemented, it was negligence or incompetence. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Ron, Shrub did not donate 3% of his annual income, either. Why are you tring to hold others to higher standards? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Very true. But we also investigate criminal negligence. Why is Shrub so afraid to face such an investigation? When you try to imply we haved no SOP in place, it does nothing but make Shrub look that much more incompetent, especially considering they had recent warnings about using airliners as weapons. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

If you insist on repeatiedly trying to mislead and misinterpret my posts, Ron there is no real reason for me to continue the discussion. If you would like to base your argument on eveidence and facts, it might be worth my time, but your misleading, unfounded implications or wrong. Period. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Actually, if you want to be technical, we hijacked this thread twice. Not on purpose, you understand. Didn't mean to draw the heat away from you.

Again, you are taking me out of context. Shrub uses September 11. attacks as a basis for his hysterical fear based scare tactics. He even claimed, initially that Iraq was involved in the attacks, which was not true. And he has used that fantasy connection to draw attention to a war in Iraq. The liklihood of dying in a september 11 type attack are approximately equal to dying from a natural disater, it would seem. The scare tactics are unnecessary. What question am I avoiding? I hardly think objective observation is nonsense. Nor do I think answering questions about glaring discrepancies is out of line. What good reason have you offered up? That it might raise some questions that would undermine confidence? Why are you so hellbent to be loyal to a dishonest president, in the face of obvious corruption? His entire tenure has been a string of lies. And you think I should just trust him? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Quite the illustrative description, I must say. Too bad the picture sucks. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I didn't forget about it. I wonder why it isn't the focus actually. What did Iraq have to do with anything? It is Shrub who would like us to forget about Afghanistan. As coverups are usually engineered to look like the truth without further scrutiny. Are you telling me that the truth should not be available for examination? Do you really think that the President was trying to get all the facts out when he to appointed Henry Kissinger to head the investigation. You don't think HK could reasonably be suspected, given past history, of engineering a cover-up in two weeks? You do remember Cambodia and Laos, right? Those were Henry's babies. And let's not forget his favor to fascist regimes, such as that of Augusto Pinochet, including possible involve in his coup to attain power in Chile. Sorry. Looks like Shit, smells like shit, unless the administration can provide evidence to the contrary, the reasonable conclusion is the it is in fact shit. What, exactly is Shrub hiding? Why won't he answer questions and provide information? Why won't he allow an independant investigation? C'mon. If SOP had been implemented by NORAD, much of the damage would not have occurred. You are trying to tell me I shouldn't ask why SOP was not followed? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Nah. He was trying to pay Ron a well deserved compliment on his editing skills. Even Shrub would be proud. Is it bad to call Ron a fan of Shrub? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

The whole idea is that society as a whole benefits from a better educated population. If one does not choose to pursue any type of education, they would still benefit indirectly from the educated populace. Why would they get a tax rebate? If they have no kids in todays system, they still pay into the public education system. Yup. I voted. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I have the entire five book (plus a short story) trilogy (Adams term, yes I can count). I'll look it up, but whichever of you two is right owes me fifty bucks. Deal? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

This is where we inherently disagree. If Bush was an incompetent failure on that day, that is forgiveable, but it appears to more closely resemble a cover-up, which is far more serious in my mind. And using September 11 as a motivation to invade Iraq is misleading the public, at best. If you think SlickWilly was not subjected to this kind of scrutiny, you're dreaming. Maybe there is a reason they couldn't get anything better than an extra-marital blow job on the guy. Shrub is not being treated any worse than was Clinton. It appears that he just has a lot more he is trying to hide. But to talk about asking the questions as though I am doing a disservice to my country by doing so? Unbelievable. Do you have any idea what it is America is supposed to stand for? There is a reason the First Amendment is the one thet deals with the freedom of speech, press, assembly, petition and religion. It's because the Founding Fathers thought that these things were pretty damn important. I too, hold them in very high regard, and am not ready to give those freedoms up quite as quickly as you seem to be. "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one ever will." Thomas Jefferson, letter to George Washington, September 9, 1792 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826) Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Why would they have to pay for their kids education. They are relieved of that burden. The cost is much less for them. Any increased tax burden is more than offset by savings in costs to the individual. Nobody gets anything for free. I don't know where you're getting that idea from. What percentage of the population do you really think wants to go to school full time for forty to sixty years? Give me a break. And it was you accusing me of trying to undermine confidence in Shrub. What a joke. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

It is the responsibility of the fourth estate to ask such questions. If asking about oral sex is not damging to the press's credibility, certainly serious, pertinent questions regarding failures in our national security. I am not a statist, I am not willing to give up transparency in government. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I guess I don't get how it would cost more. Essentially, you would get to spread out the cost of your education, interest free, over the entire span of your working lifetime. Perhaps there's something I am missing? You seem to think people are getting something for nothing. No one would get anything for nothing. It's misleading to imply that is the case. Everyone pays their own way, they just don't have to worry about doing it all at once, and they don't have to pay profit to the rich for the priviledge of getting an education. You might be able to argue that in the short term it would be costly, and you would be right. We would have to find something other than war to keep people entertained. However, in the long run, it would cost society much less. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I fail to see how to ask why we did not implement plans already in place to deal with just such a situation, is derranged. All the indicators were there. We already had a plan. Why wasn't it followed? It had been implemented before, in other scenarios (Remember Payne Stewarts jet?), why was it not implemented this time? Why is the President afraid of an independeant investigation into the event? Either Shrub knew about the attacks, and didn't do anything to stop them, or the Executive Branch of the Federal government failed miserably that dreadful day. Why did NORAD stand down? Is he criminally neglegent, or just incompetant? And, so you know, it is a Republican making the most serious allegations, and he is making them in a Court of Law. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I want to teach high level classes. We need those teachers, too. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

I said some of the time. If half the people who reponded on this thread paid attention to all the posts, it would be much more productive. Jobs were not a dime a dozen when I went back to school, and I have little in the way of non-skydiver, non-school related local references. And in a slow economy the job goes to the local, not the student from out of state. Especially when the locals schedule is more open. Getting a job just because you want one has not ever been a reality in any part of Florida I have ever lived. Who knows, maybe it's completely different fifty miles down the road. Additionally, since it took me so long (11 years) to figure out that school was my best choice, combined that I need advanced degrees to work in the area I want to work in, going to school part time is really not an option, as it would take an extra 6-10 years, which, in the long run, significantly raises the cost of the education. Trust me, I have examined the problem from all angles. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

The Buddha said that which does not seem paradoxical is not true, which tells me the there is as much truth in your argument as there is in mine. There are two sides to each story, and our perspective dictates which is perceived to be correct. You're right, in the short term, a system as I propose would be costly, and much of that tax burden would be burdened by people who would largely not benefit. I am trying to see it from a larger perspective, after say 50 years, when the vast majority of those carrying the burden will have already benefited from it. Who would benefit? Parents who intend to bend over backwards to offer their children the oppurtunity to go to school. Our children would benefit by being guaranteed the oppurtunity to further their education past high school, which no longer offers reasonable expectations to qualify one for a job allowing to live above the poverty level. Liberty is nothing without education. We cannot keep up the status quo much longer before something gives. If change is inevitable, why not make it as productive as possible? Think of those that we are sticking with a national debt of over $7,600,000,000,000. I think it is a fair and just trade-off. If we expect them to pay our way now, we should at least set them up to get an education, don't you think? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!