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Remember the Project Mogul balloon used to explain the Roswell "UFO" debris? It carried a string of corner cube radar reflectors suggesting that balloons may be poor radar targets. 377 I picked up on that too. Puzzeling. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Great analogy to redneck bullshitting, except they rarely get arrested as terrorists. I am going to sleep even better with Mehanna under arrest along with Zasi. Whew. Glad they got Mehanna before he got weapons and created cells. Preemptive strikes against pre terrorists, makes a lot of sense. Wasn't there a guy named Bin Laden who they were looking for? Remember him? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Balloon Dad sounds like really bad news Georger. I guess we are lucky he didn't actually launch Balloon Boy Falcon. I'll bet it had more to do with inadequate lifting capacity than good judgment. When I was a kid I saw a movie about a kid who somehow ends up in a runaway gas balloon. It might have been made in Europe. They had a military parachutist try to get aboard. I can't find the movie. Maybe Snowmman can. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

but you know Orange will never permit Baby O to be part of any disreputable hoax, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...implying I would allow baby O to be part of a reputable hoax? *** Not a chance, Baby O is in very good hands. When Baby O becomes a teenager, her Mom might actually be seen as slightly cool, being a skydiver and all that. Good times ahead. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Prove Duane could read and correctly interepret an aircraft system schematic. Did he have any engineering training? I have the 727 flight manual with many system schematics, and I know how to read them, but I cannot tell that a 727 is jumpable from reading the schematics or text. Even the NWA pilots and flight engineeer were not aware of the 727s ability to serve as a jumpship, so how did Duane know? I do think there are probably clues in Cooper's converstaions with Tina, but we may never know what was said. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The ACLU has filed suit on behalf of "terror" prisoners who were transported abroad for torture, not directly against the US Govt, but against Jeppesen, a flight planning and aero chart company which helped plan the flights. The US Govt has intervened, asked for dismissal due to the risk of "state secrets" being exposed and the fight is on. Somehow this will benefit Snowmman Industries, you can bank on that. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

This beats balloon boy big time! ....but you know Orange will never permit Baby O to be part of any disreputable hoax, no matter how big the payoff. Keep movin them 40mms Snow till we figure out a plan B. Wouldnt it just be astounding if a real undamaged Cooper 20 showed up OUS? That would make my day for sure. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I did see that Commons stuff in Ostrom's award bio, COOL! Being a Berkeley grad I was pleased to see Williamson share the prize with her. Hey Orange, would you let Baby O skydive when she turns 18? My boy is showing some interest and my ex thinks it's nearly child abuse to facilitate it. I really like it when Snow and Georger collabaorate and even spar on Tena Bar stuff. I am leaning more towards dredge transport all the time. Jo hasnt answered my question as to how Duane could have known that a 727 could be jumped. I was an airplane fanatic and a jumper in 1971 and I was very surprised to learn that it could be done. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Kindly explain how Duane knew that a 727 airstair could be successfully deployed in flight? I have a complete Multi hundred page 727 flight manual and it doesn't address the issue. Certainly an aircraft paint contractor/supplier would not need this kind of specialized system information. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Happy birthday to Baby Orange! 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I thought we agreed to cease personal attacks on Jo, not pretend she doesn't exist. Anyway, will try to make the forum more inviting for Orange. I think we all like her posts. That electrostatic propulsion/attitude control scheme on the saucer balloon seems useless if there is any wind at all. You can actually measure altitude differences by reading natural field voltage. Stanford used this to make a wing leveling autopilot for a glider research project. It banked to minimize/equalize wingtip voltages. Saved a lot of weight compared to a gyro sensor. I am still pondering Georgers and Snowmmans outlook on the Tena Bar money find. It just feels unlikely and staged, although it probably wasn't. My candidate for the most amazing hijack is the mechanic who stole a USAF C 130 Hercules in the UK years ago. He was flying just fine when the plane disappeared into the sea. Rumors are that the USAF shot him down. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Your consistent habit of holding back facts and just stating conclusions might explain the misunderstanding. To me, that seems a lot more plausible than concluding Jerry is part of a conspiracy to hide the fact that Duane was Cooper. Occam agrees with me. In 2009 who would put any effort into hiding the truth about Cooper's identity? Why? 377 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No. What was it? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I now have quite a package ready if anyone wants to do a dummy drop to recreate the Cooper jump in a similar storm. I have a really beat up (but good enough for a dummy) seat pack miltary C 9 emergency bailout rig. The canopy is in great shape. An obsolete but functional Sentinel MK 2000 pin puller AAD that could be set to open the canopy at a preset altitude. A 5 watt VHF telemetry package that has shown the ability to transmit reliable GPS data packets 62 miles when I used it last weekend on a 13,000 ft HAHO jump. Wouldnt be hard to add temperature data, accelerometer data, etc. Currently I have heart rate and blood oxygen data multiplexed onto the GPS data string. Real time video transmission could be added, but on a stormy night it might not be much to look at. Just need a dummy of suitable weight and a good estimate of Coopers exit point... and a jumpship pilot willing to drop the stuff during a winter storm. Just waiting for a call from Hollywood. Dont need to make any money, just get my gear back or replaced. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't confuse me with logic about the Tena Bar find Snow. My house was just painted with Sherwin Williams paint. After that happened all sorts of things I said turn out to be right. Previously most were wrong. I am trying to get the power Jo has where things go "poof" and disappear with no cached traces remaining. Still working on that one. Jerry, you are right, miracles DO happen. I really hope one happens to you. I can just see it, you are poking through some thick Washougal brush and you spot an unmistakable sight for an experienced vintage parachutist: a pack opening band amidst the brambles. The nylon cover is rotted but the springs, a bit oxidized, are still stretched out holding tension on the weathered remains of an NB6 that never opened. You cut through the barbed vines and can now see the whole rig. Mice have knawed holes in parts of the container but the ripcord pins are still seated. You give a tug to the stainless cable and the pins don't budge from the cones. Cossey's hard pull pack job is still a hard pull 38 years later. The flesh and bones have been scattered by scavengers but some further searching and excavation will surely verify what you already know to be true: you have found ground zero. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I don't doubt The kid's find being legit from his standpoint. I just wonder if he was subtly led to the site and encouraged to prep it for a fire. The chances of a random very shallow dig turning up the only pile of Cooper bills found at Tena Bar is very small. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Not really sure. Rather than publicity it might have been a way to test what would happen if some rotted Cooper money surfaced. Perhaps the parents had much more and planted what was found. The circumstances of the Ingram kid's find has always struck me as odd. Am I alone in that opinion? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

***What I thought was silly, was the structural issue. the thing seemed to flimsy to support a 45 lb point load below it...i.e. it would distort. *** Excellent point. What was the point in making such a weird saucer shaped balloon? It makes no sense from any angle other than publicity. The kid vomited on TV twice when asked to explain his statement about it being for a "show". Poor little guy. I hope he doesnt become a foster kid over all this. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Wonder why nobody did a quick rough calc of the volume of that wacky saucer helium balloon. When I did, it seemed incapable of lifting a six year old kid's weight. It also seemed to have attitude changes inconsistent with the weight of a 6 year old child suspended beneath it. Sure glad it ended well. Did you read what the kid said? " We did this for a show". Maybe it is ambiguous, but I smell a rat. http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:y_news:4e32f9eb1cd4cb0464a3d92619ff7c9d/Balloon-boy-We-did-this-for-a-show-AP The use of naive kids in publicity stunts... could it have happened at Tena Bar? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nahhh... You do just fine on your own Jo. No enablers are needed. I fail to see how any of this Sherwin Williams stuff proves Duane knew Boeing 727s inside and out. It makes as much sense as Snows red VW story which was his point, I think. The FBI will ignore your info. Why should they investigate it when it doesn't prove anything about Norjack? If you have proof that Duane was Cooper post it. What you have posted so far is a disjointed seemingly irrelevant series of events that in your mind links Duane to Norjack. I believe that nobody but you sees it that way. Sherwin Williams makes good paint. I just painted my house with their Duralast product. My house contains number of Boeing flight manuals including one for the 727. My head is spinning. The FBI had better take a closer look. Forget Ckret, we need Scully and Mulder. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I once rode with Don Rickles in an elevator at a hotel in Minneapolis. As soon as the doors closed he announced to the half dozen riders who were twittering with excitement but respectfully not engaging him: "so just say it, I know you are thinking it, you want me to do comedy for you in this fucking elevator, this goddamned elevator that not only was free, but doesn't even have a two drink minimum. Well fuck you, I am not that desperate yet. " And then he proceeded to deliver a hard edged profane monolog that literally had everyone in stitches. 377[/url] 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

That's me: an enabler with nothing better to do. As soon as I find something better to do, I'll stop enabling, but it's hard. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No question about it???? You must have extraordinary evidence, which of course you cannot share at this time...etc. Case closed I guess. Just waiting for the minor details. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

How can the new CSG control what the former members do? What if Tom K publishes his rubber band oxidation based chrono analysis? Better stay one step ahead Snow. You'll need to be on the editorial board of the Journal of Paintball Technology. Reject all TK abstracts and manuscripts. President for life? You need to dress for the part. I hear Fidel's tailor is available. He has been longing to break free from Khaki and Cammo. Tina's remarks about Cooper's sadness have a hint of sympathy. Perhaps she withheld some details when recounting their conversation to the FBI. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I was never so scared as on those early S/L jumps. We had to climb out on a wing strut on an ancient Aeronca Sedan. It was terrifying to me, so damned LOW. I could see people and distinguish a Ford from a Chevy. I calmed down a lot when I got cleared for freefall and could go up high where everything looked like a mosaic. The USAF hooked up experienced jumpers to cardio recorders and noted a huge pulse rate spike after ripcord pull and before successful deployment. As I recall some rates briefly came close to and might have exceeded 200 BPM. It was referred to in the USPA magazine long ago. I can't find it but I bet Snow could. I still love freefall but these leisurely sky cruising HAHOs sure are fun. I imagine they wont be so fun when the cold WX sets in. I am pinging some military radio chat groups trying to find out more about the beacons and direction finders used by SOG jumpers in Viet Nam to regroup after landing. Although Tina may have been planning to go to a convent all along even before Norjack, I can't help but speculate that the radical change in lifestyle was caused by something that happened on the plane. She sure knows how to stay out of the public eye. Thanks for trying with Tina Bruce. Hope you won't give up on Flo. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.