BobKnoss

Night flares are very effective at lighting up aircraft in the sky. Remember the flares over Bagdad at night on TV? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904; http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8903; Yes Bob, I've seen flares... And the pics YOU downloaded are 400' parachute flares...totally useless fired from a chopper...would light up very little at 10,000 feet. I don't care HOW good Janet's eyes are! What she saw is what happened according to McCoy. The correction in the flight path to the actual path also confirms Janet's claims, McCoy's claims and the corrected flight path, and even Cook confirms what she claims. Reported winds at 60Kt from the SE AND from the West at 75kt at the same time??? HOOEY! All sides agree on the same facts, except some on this forum. It all fits together from different sources to the same conclusion. The plane was a player in the hijacking and was shifted to where Janet saw it WEST of Portland. FACT. what altitude would you say this aircraft is at? Blevins thought around 4000, even when he zooms in, how in the hell would you notice a man on the stairway? while you just so happen to look up? Not a problem with that scenerio. Big problem at 10,000 ft. Triagulate it. Length of 305= 130 ft? 10,000 ft. el at 45°= 14,000 ft line of sight? Pretty small, but with a flare on it, well, you can see Mars if you look. Not much difference in the aperture. Hard to see a jumper, but with a little imagination....... hey! That Dude's got his NY Sen. Weiner hangin' out! And Duane had big ears, don't forget that. She obviously saw the plane, she probably imbelished the jumper bit. Witnesses tend to do that shit... some of them, wives especially. The greatest? Greater that WHO, dear?

My interest is not showcasing the Cooper Case. It is not in writing a McCoy book. I absolutely DETEST the false stories coming from all the self-proclaimed EXPERTS who have anywhere from half to everything wrong and GLOAT on it. George is closest, then Towsaw and Jo for a tie, but Cook, Poison, Bleep, Maria and Jamie, and 2000 other Kooks the FBI has talked to.... and I just have to get in line. My interest is in finding another whistleblower who knows what really went down and is willing to safely expose the truth. Most all are dead now. Or afraid of the FBI. Paranoid in some cases.

Night flares are very effective at lighting up aircraft in the sky. Remember the flares over Bagdad at night on TV?

Quoteon loan from the Pentagon why would a guy like this be running around from the Law in a corn field? Mac was a, War hero.... FALSIFICATION of records Hijacker ......Fact Agent for the Government Induction Officer......no validation assigned to Special Services from the Pentagon...no validation See Tenent U.S. Marshal............no validation Correct Still alive.................no validation at his request here again is where the "secret" becomes a problem, we know have the Pentagon in on this? or was he just loaned out like the local E-Z rental furniture rental company not knowing what will happen to there furniture once in the hands of strangers? Adequately documented not a matter of question. You just don't have the proof in YOUR hands.

"how much more can you add to these two lines made two years ago?" Manchurian Candidate (joke): These people are all wonderful people, they are my friends, they are all important people, pillars in the community. There isn't anything one of us wouldn't do for one another. We are comrades to the death. Williams, shoot Sgt. Smith there. Yes, Sir, BOOM! Thank you, Sir. (paraphrased)

At least a page or two. I have also recently addressed that comment made on another forum that claimed McCoy to be in the top ten criminals of all time. Sounded like something Mac would do himself! Mac was not a criminal, he was an undercover cop, agent, plant, on loan from the Pentagon. If you really want a disertation on that tripe, I certainly can provide it, but I see no value in it. Mac has a big ego and he is sensitive, like having his ears flattened.

he brought his own chutes? surely the FBI was not aware of this project either? or was the FBI informed of this mission, unlike Coopers jump? I remember now, we can't have a secret if everyone knows! He thought he was smarter than he was. Made a lot of stupid mistakes, then even broke a bone in his foot. Bummed a ride for $15 from a kid with the radio blasting his story while they ride into town. Then the kid lies about how much Mac paid him for the ride. Left his fingerprints on a magazine, too. Bought a strawberry shake. Too fruity for me. Two aggressive FBI SA's pushed it and processed him. Rest of the story is re-written to fit the cover-up. Early stories were written with truth. Not any longer.

Quotewas a joke Bob, seems to be a lot of that lately! even today's flares do not Light Up The Sky! Has to be something to light up to know, it would seem...... I am, therefore I am. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfOcq246sQU My wife used to do that. Spose her chute got sewed? you didn't answer why McCoys chutes were not marked, one would think this would be a must a short period after Cooper/Gossit/KC/LD/Weber etc. McCoy had no assistance. Did it all on his lonesome on NOH's approval. Didn't need to write himself notes. Although, that might have helped.

Chutes were sewn shut on flares?? Huh? I have no I idea what kind of flares were in the choppers. Only that they fired a couple or a few. "You don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about!" Don't believe I have to know how to swim to toss a life preserver.

You need to read my response to your silly claims again. That response is NOT "accurate and consistent with what I (Knoss) said" as you claim. You don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about! I read consistency. I repeated what McCoy reported. I see nothing at odds, just different words. I am not a pilot, just a reporter of fact.

Ralph H. flew in either a Army National Guard or Army Reserve UH-1 helicopter. He did not see the airliner at any point. In 1971, no USA operational military helicopter could maintain 175 knots in level flight. There are some technical factors involved that Knoss obviously has never heard of. That sounds accurate and consistent with what I said. They also saw no parachute at any time. Your claim of BS is totally unfounded as what I claim is the actual truth. You just don't know it yet. You have the tennacity to search out the truth and you could do it if you really wanted to.

Just curious, what kind of chopper back then could fly that high-that fast-in that weather? 10,000 ft, light rain and 175 knots? Not an avionics expert. Ralph wrote the book describing what they did. I was told they could just barely keep up and the jets couldn't go slow enough. Ask Ralph what he flew. It might be in his book. And what good would shooting flares off DO at a couple hundred knots...light up where you WERE a couple miles back? I was not there, but they were close enough, as flares light up the entire sky from the ground. From the chopper the flares just blinded them. Couple miles? Who says? Blevins? I believe McCoy AND JANET. Do you even THINK about the logic of the BS you report? No, actually, I really don't. The ONLY thing I concentrate on is precise accuracy. The point of the planning was to AVOID logic. Upside down inside out. I do not read whole books, just exerps to verify truth and authenticity. When I run into an obvious falsehood, I give the book away. The only book I have is Gray's and I only read the pages he wrote about our visit. He got it all correct, but the Judge managed to slip in an untruth. My Dad never taught me the clock business. I just naturally gravitated to the spelter like the Judge did. Not my Dad's choice. He liked wooden pendulum clocks and pocket watches. I have hundreds of epic spelter statues, large Japy and Ansonia statue clocks which I restore.

Quoteyour going against your own witness statements? "the flares lit up the sky for Janet" Cook's and Tosaw's witness, not my witness. That's what flares do, that is what they are intended for. I think it is safe to assume that's what would happen. That's one special lady to be the only person within miles to see the sky lit up? nobody on the highways, nobody outside walking the dog, Police must of been blind or out of the area? other planes witness to seeing the sky lit up? We were not there, we can only try to visualize what the witness stated. perhaps I could ask the dairy cows? oh crap, we didn't have dairy cows at the Dairy farm did we, Dam! If you were there, you might have seen and talked to the cows. I was told it was an abandoned farm and I was not there. what happened to the post you made about McCoy being a Marshal...with one L....... McCoy was given a Marshal's badge by O'Hara, I wasn't aware of any swearing in, but I guess that's possible. Probably even probable. Why would she report something so akin if it didn't happen? I bet a lot of people are asking the same about B Madoff! If it's too good to be true...well you know the rest. I don't grasp your point. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck and lays eggs like a duck, there is a pretty good chance it will taste like a duck. Chickens don't fly into a duck blind during duck season. They rarely even cross the road anymore. If it is duck hunting season and you hear someone shooting a shotgun in a marsh area right when the season opens at 6 AM and they tell you they shot some ducks, I guess it is fair to assume they bagged some ducks. What's the point of telling you unless they got some ducks?? That's what hunters do. Janet was a concerned citizen. Mac was responsible for keeping her quiet. He TOLD me he did that! Bad word and all! Monochrome puzzle that lights up when everything is in place.

Quote Had to use the "SPECIAL" sewen shut chute to assure no tampering, the one belonging to 'kingpin', the rigger, who sewed it shut and put the "X" on it. Why would there be a concern of tampering on a secret Government plan? The FBI acting on the report of a hijacking were not part of the team. Some creative agent could have taken it upon himself to "FIX" the hijacker, or plant a tracker. If everyone knew of the plan, it would not have been a secret, would it? Flares were not fired or lit from 305, they came from the trailing helicopter. They did not help, they made visibility from the chopper worse, but they lit up the sky for Janet. Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. "What I saw was flames and thought I saw something on the platform which could have been a person," Janet said. Immediately, the fireball arched away from the platform, split into two and then disappeared in the direction of the Columbia River she does not mention any helicopter in the area, with nightvision like hers, she would have spotted a black kite that nite. The helicopter had trouble keeping up. 305 was never in sight of the helicopter according to Ralph. It was not nightvision that allowed Janet to see the stairs, it was the red flare. I can't bite on a kite that nite, at that height, no fight, her sight of the flight with the light, McCoy's warning so Duane's plight might be tight in the night. I'm sure, that's right. Chances I'm wrong are slight. Why would she report something so akin if it didn't happen? why did you have to Google? I Googled the LOCATION on the map. I think I put her in the West Beaverton area.

"How much of that is fiction and how much of it is fact. Maybe NONE of it is fiction." I'd say that is probably all 100% totally true. Unfortunately, there is nothing there of value to anyone except you. We ALL deal with the same situation. Lots of words and no tangible proof. Just meaningless history. On a good day.

"you are a horrible and terribly sick man." Yes, Dear, whatever you say, Dear. But I am a very HONEST, horrible and terribly sick man.

"No, I do NOT believe that it was Richard Floyd McCoy who contacted Janet and made the alleged threat. Since Janet testified she mailed the letter directly to the Portland FBI, this would assume McCoy had access to the Portland FBI's incoming mail, and that is doubtful." Mac was the "go-to" guy for the project. It went directly to him. He went directly to Janet. I explained that McCoy was assigned to NOH. the SA in charge of the project. I pointed you to the association (team) for Walker between NOH and McCoy between March, 1968 and 1974. This is not a snapshot in time, it is a moving, living, breathing, growing series of events that meld together. You need to have a heart to heart sit down with Ralphy in a very private friendly location. Take a Bible along. Ralph is a good man.

QuoteShed some light here for me Bob, where does Janet live? my understanding is that she lived right under or close to the FBI flight path, how would she then be able to see the plane if it was 15 miles off of the course you speak of, I'm not as up to date in this area but do recall reading that she was in the flight path. Yes, I calculate that she was 2 miles off the ACTUAL flight path. Since the angle of sight she had was 45°. I got her address and Googled her, put her on the shifted flight path (15 miles West) and that is right where it is. Everything fits perfectly, with a swing around the population of Portland. She was apparently 2 miles East of the actual path on the Westerly side of Portland, South of center. You can do the same thing. Robert99 should have done the same thing, but I hear nothing of the results he got. This is 100% factual, so verifying it has got to be pretty simple. I'm like many others finding it hard to believe that she could see the back of the plane so well? I live very close (about 7 miles) to Ft Lauderdale airport and the planes are at a couple thousand feet if that, not far from my home, I have looked many times during the nite and can't see anything but a shadow (Silhouette) of the plane? even when it has a light under the back tail. The trailing helicopter was shooting flares up in the air above 305. Have you ever seen a flare? You would understand. She could easily see everything at that distance, given a good pair of eyes. Granted, a blind person would have problems. How far is the Moon? Similar lighting to a flare. Can you see the fine details when you get an opening in the clouds? Same thing. and if he did have flares, I could understand that some light would be on the stairwell, but then where did he get the flares if the bomb was made of red wood dowels as you explained in the past? McCoy and Ralph have explained where the lit flares came from. It was not Duane. It would not have been in his benefit to use a blinding flare. The original training discussion included red painted dowels from the local Hank's Hardware Store by TOG. Duane asked about using flares as fake dynomite instead. Flares are red, dynomite is tan. The red was to tell the FBI that it was NOT a bomb when they saw it. He MAY have had flares instead of dowels. Depends on what was left on the plane. I don't know. Flares leave a smoke trail, one would think that some of this would have made it's way into the plane and then the cabin, possibly causing them to become alarmed! Flares were not fired or lit from 305, they came from the trailing helicopter. They did not help, they made visibility from the chopper worse, but they lit up the sky for Janet.

"Third, even though I've been wrong many times along the way, I still seek whatever that truth is." Please throw in your Brigham Young Medallion files before you go. You owe us a little of that truth from your locked stash. Sort of an apology of parting words? You will not be able to stay away, you know. You are addicted to this place as your personal diary and venue to your whipping posts for different opinions. You can not change. You are cast. Perhaps we can have civil discussions here at long last. Enjoy if you can.

"Rataczak is gracious as he has always been - never says anything bad about anyone. I would really like to meet him someday. How is he doing and how is his wife doing - they were both having a hard time last yr and why I do NOT bother him." No, Jo. This is Bill's son who is an EXTREMELY talented artist. He is a friend of mine and I hold the greatest respect for him. I suggest you all buy his art and enjoy his perspective on flight.

"P.S. I have in writing where you claimed the guy at the collections place for the front pack was in on this and Coopers boots were in the pack marked with an X. I told you then HOW ridiculous you were being - because they had NO idea where they would be getting those front packs." Sorry, Jo. I can't figure out what you are trying to say. The good chute was with the X, it would be rediculous to say the boots were in there. TOG stored them for Duane where Cossey? could get them. Your information is disinformation.

"I owe Bob Knoss an apology..." More than one, guy. Try doing a REAL investigation on the REAL Brigham Young Medallion with McCoy's initials on the back. Since he was your no. 1 suspect anyway, you should already have the facts immediately at hand. Try being honest for a while. Mac says OK, go ahead!!! DO IT!!

"This thread needs a resolution to the problem of Bob Knoss. How do we get his ass off the thread?" Might I suggest that we jointly investigate those areas I claim to be windows of truth and see what lies beneath the BS? You have yet to pursue any of my claims. MrShutter is the only poster with enough balls to ask civil questions. Simply prove my answers right or wrong. Simply saying it is BS is not a conclusion to the debate. There is false information and there is a little truth. Hard to conduct a fair snowball fight when only one side has a snow-machine. Examine the crab in the flight path I claim. Those facts can't be covered up. Look up the history of the Brighaham Young Medallion. in McCoy's own biography. Check Tenent's statements about McCoy being rehired. Read the facts of O'Hara and Walker from start to finish.... finish when he shot a John Doe corpse to put McCoy in undercover business as Captain Tommy Gunn, underworld Cop. His arresting a boat full of Bosses and Capos on a river cruise with tape recorders. Then the unbelievable stuff starts. Just try the little ones with me. It will be fun. I have 100% confidence, because like a good procecuter, I know the answers before I ask them. Don't have a closed mind. Let me hang myself since you are so sure that is what will happen. I think you are afraid the the truth is too much like the sunshine. It just keeps on shining and coming back for more. Global warming has come, my friends. Time to melt some ice.

I know the feeling, with a saline rinse.

Quotewhy don't you explain once again what the money was intended for? The original concept was to ask for $100,000, but Duane said that wasn't enough, to go for $100,000 each. "The other guy" said he didn't want any and that the money was going back to Northwest anyway. Duane said he wasn't taking the risk without getting paid. TOG didn't want to ask for more that they could get easily from the bank. Time constraints. I need to read a book to understand why you have no knowledge of your Doctors first name or your induction date? you had days to report after reciving your notice, you said this all started in March but, No, you don't seem to understand the power of Bluebird and the memory that can be created by hypnotic suggestion. The letter was mid-March. 15-20th "The X was what he jumped with after removing the string it was sewn shut with. The boots MAY have been packed in one of the other chutes. THAT is a guess on my part. Somehow he had his boots." Two chutes where left on the plane and two chutes are missing, so Cooper used the reserve with the X to open and land with? IMO it would make more sense for the FBI to say that one of main chutes was a dummy chute and not the reserve. I don't know a damned thing about parachutes as explained to 377. I can only tell you what was planned and that Duane followed the plan according to McCoy. TOG told him to tie the front chute on the back with chord and lots of knots. He said nobody knows you can do that, you'll have to reach around to get the rip chord (or whatever). The money got lashed on the front where the reserve should have gone. Wait ten seconds and pull. No altimeter, or anything fancy, don't want to be seen as experts. Two chute were missing? Possibly his boots came in in one chute pack and the brief case and shoes went out in that same pack?? Would make a simple explanation for why stuff was the way they found it. Why would they actually give him a chute sewn shut? do you realize how long this would take to remove the stitches on the container? There was only one reason for doing this. The chutes belonged to TOG and were planted to be used for this project. Duane memorized the stitching and verified that nobody added a tracking device or foiled the chute so it would fail. It was a "Seal of Approval". Personally packed by TOG, a top expert rigger. Duane kept a pen knife in his pocket all the time. Cut the string and tug. Simple. "The maintenance crew gave a personal tour of the entire plane, stairway lock and all." and yet Cooper could not open the door correctly? No, TOG told him that the stews knew how to do it and to let them do it. Take no unnecessary risks. This is a safety exercise. You did say the amboy chute was not Coopers because the canopy did not have a X on it! even if the plan went quicker than expected, Cooper would have had no reason to fear anyone on the ground while the plane was parked correct? So, why didn't the FBI simply load all of his equipment onto the plane? the plane was sitting on the runway for some time? It was not my intent to say the canopy had an X on it. The outside of the pack had an X on it. That part of the Amboy chute was reportedly missing. The FBI Agent, Larry Carr told me the manufacture of the Amboy chute post-dated Cooper's jump. Apparently there was no rear window for a sniper to shoot him, so he was reasonably safe on the ground, waiting for McCoy to arrive from Utah, yes. The FBI had a failure of communications in the inside FBI guys were supposed to take care of the parachutes. THAT was their ONLY responsibility and they TOTALLY screwed the pooch. They went to the wrong place and almost delivered the WRONG chutes, but finally got their directions in place and got TOG's stored chutes. FBI looked like idiots. That's why. It just sounds like you are working your story into the story itself, because again this does not sound like a well thought out plan that started in March of 68, which just so happens to fall on your induction date? You are doing the Jo thing again. Induction was in March, the hypnosis was about two weeks later, on a Wednesday, because I missed the first scheduled meeting, let's say early April. Duane showed up around May and left probably around early Sept. I believe that is what I recently posted and I don't care to change it to fit your recollection just to be nice. I prefer my story. TOG and McCoy were scheming and plotting by themselves over in TOG's apartment and occasionally in the FBI SA's office downtown. I would suggest those conversations started in January or February since the purpose of the meet was to have McCoy, the maintanence caretaker fix the poor heat circulation in TOG's apartment. Two jumping pilots with identical interests. why were you picked from Induction? why would the Government seek people out through this process? the Government has many ways in order to seek the right person out for a job such as this? Mac was the investigator on my case. obviously. He was probably on it about the time of my phone conversation with Ms. Long about moving to Canada. He believed my story and tried to help the only way he could. As I said, he went out of his way to help people and is STILL doing it today. what exactly was your position in all this? McCoy described it as "His witness if anything went wrong." He said that TOG should do the same thing if he was smart. He did not. They chose not to use me in Mac's trial based on their read of the judge. Instead, they teamed up for another project with Walker, who the SA had put in prison. Stories are available to read on the internet as separate entities. It is Volume II in the true life story of Pentegon Warrant Officer McCoy. It is all on the internet too. So are Volumes III and IV. Tip of the iceberg, guys.