RhondaLea

Well, I was contemplating opting out, but since you put it that way... If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I posted the link to Kort upthread, Kris, along with a couple of relevant quotes from that essay. It didn't help any. For some people...ah, well...never mind. Some minds are just like a double malfunction. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

...And if the end weren't so real Coming round and round again on me... I guess it's all about my priiiiiiiiide I want to be there at the kill... I don't think so, Steve. The whole thing is now beginning to spiral out of control with this entre into the thread about confused sexual identity which has nothing to do with hetero- or homosexuality. And I'm already bored with this new digression. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Okay. I'm awake now. Gender Identity Disorder has nothing to do with this discussion. You're broadening the discussion in a way that makes it a totally different discusssion, and we are not talking about people with a mental disorder in this thread. As for someone who changes his/her behavior--any behavior, not just sexual--because of a traumatic event, it's the same as above. Otherwise we're going to end up discussing all the weird things people do in response to traumatic events. We're not talking about people with mental disorders in this thread, and all you're doing is making the water very muddy. Just as there are heterosexuals with mental problems, so are there homosexuals with mental problems, and those problems run the gamut. But that's not what we're talking about here. A situational change of the sex one chooses for intimate relations is not a change in sexual orientation, so let's just nip this in the bud right now. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I scored 21. But what one knows to do and what one does are often different. I made a lot of mistakes with my daughter, and I paid the price, but there was never a time that she didn't talk to me, confide in me, trust me, most especially about sex and drugs. The only thing I would say to parents who are still actively parenting is that if you don't give your children a chance to make mistakes they can learn from, they'll never learn anything, and the mistakes they make later will be a lot bigger. Childhood (and the teen years) are a time for figuring it all out. If they don't figure it out sooner, they won't figure it out later. But no one learns from anyone else's experience. We all have to make our own mistakes. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I'm too tired to think about it. Ask me in the morning. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I hate regrowth. To wax, one must wait for regrowth. No mirror, no shaving foam. Body wash, and I can shave just fine without looking. You'll never know. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I believe what livendive is saying Dave is usually smarter than I am. Given the chance to contradict him, what else could I do? rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I'll let you know when I win the lottery and buy some cows. Then I'll send the plane ticket. 'k? rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

He doesn't have to suck up to me, because he knows that I love him. This little love fest has been going on a lot longer than you have been around, and it will go on long after you are gone. Further, I don't have any "arse hairs" because I shave every single day. Also, I do not wipe, I wash. Rest assured, however, that for you I'd do neither. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

"His assertion" is not his assertion. It is what he asserts is the belief of the gay community (and a good part of the scientific community that does research in that particular area). He is also speaking generally about the reaction that NAMBLA has received from the gay community at large. He would know better than anyone what kind of support NAMBLA is getting, don't you think? Look, I can't argue something when someone has taken what I wrote out of context and constructed an argument that I didn't make. I stand by what I said. Further, sexual identity is innate. It doesn't change as a result of traumatic events, but it is documented that very few of us fall into the two extremes of totally heterosexual or totally homosexual, so in the presence of a sexually traumatic event, we might decide to see if there is comfort to be found in a different configuration. For some of us, it's as simple as what I wrote earlier in one of these threads--I'd rather have sex with a smart woman than a stupid man. That doesn't mean that I've changed my sexuality, because I still have a much stronger attraction to men than to women. It's just that in my old age, I've gotten a little pickier. As to confusion of gender identity, what exactly are you talking about, because I can't respond to a statement that vague. The phrase itself covers several different things, not all of which--and more likely none of which--have anything to do with homosexuality. I'm tired right now, and I've left some holes. I'm sure you'll be right on them. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

My father is a piece of work, Walt. He hated every race and ethnic group equally, but he had at least one friend that came from each of them. His everyday playmate when he was a kid was black. I'm pretty sure I said most of that when I talked about hearing racial insults as a child. Anyway, I'm only going to argue my argument, not the one that's constructed for me by someone else. I've said what I have to say on the subject, and I'm not going to change my mind. I got into this thread by accident, and it's not an argument I'm very passionate about this week because it's old, old, old. If you want my honest opinion, one that I don't intend to make a case for, racists and their ilk are both ignorant and stupid. Whether it's right or not, to me racism and similar bigotry is indicative of low IQ and a refusal to see the truth that people are just people. Some bad, some good, but no particular concentration of goodness or badness in any particular color or other group. I'm going to concentrate my hate on psychopaths. It seems a much more productive endeavor than hating good people along with the bad just because they don't look like me or share my sexual preference. rl P.S. In some ways, you're one of the most tolerant people I know. So I don't know how you're managing to carry on this argument with a straight face. I mean, seriously...aren't you the same guy who accompanied a gay friend...never mind... If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Boy, and that needs to be repeated over and over and over again. If I had a nickel for every guy who thinks porno is real life, I'd retire and invent a word that means "seraglio for men" because I'd have the money to afford one. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Well, it was your idea. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

It's all about the sets Mark. While NAMBLA members are within the set of homosexuals, No. They're not. It's a totally different preference that has nothing to do with being male or female. As long as we give credence to the idea that pedophilia has either a homosexual or heterosexual aspect, we're going down the wrong road. It's not about specific genitalia (because pedophiles will switch depending on availablility, even if they have a preference for one or the other), it's about undeveloped, hairless, breastless bodies of either sex. Take note that there are adult women who have clitorides larger than some young boys' penises. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I like biting everywhere. Gentle to the clit and surrounding area, quite a bit rougher to the nipples. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Well, words have power to influence Walt. If all you're saying is that "I hate Yemenis" it's one thing. If you start saying that "all Yemenis are rapists, pedophiles, murderers, abortion doctors, , eventually one of those people who find it impossible to stand on a slippery slope is going to go out and get him a Yemeni. It's not Rhonda who says this is true, it's history. So you can dislike whomever you please, and it's no big deal, but when your dislike turns into a goad to persecution, you've crossed the line. Intense dislike and even hatred aren't pathological. Backing them up with action most certainly is, and standing by while it happens is just as bad. rl Edited to add: It is irrational to be afraid of or to hate someone just because they belong to a particular racial, ethnic, sex, yada, yada, yada group. (Such groups to be defined as "natural" vs. a group like the AMA or the Ku Klux Klan, which are based on common interests or a common profession.) You're welcome, of course, to explain to me why a dislike of a specific person or persons should reasonably become a dislike of all persons belonging to that group, but I don't think you can make a good case for it. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Did you miss the thread about milking? Under your theory, male orgasm serves no purpose for the continuation of the human race either. As for Shannon's question, I was like that when I was younger--almost hypersensitive as to clit and nipples. But once I was in my 30s, that changed. Oddly enough, someone who shall remain nameless told me that women are more sensitive on the left side of the clit, and that's certainly true for me. I haven't taken a poll to determine whether it's true for most women. I don't like the little circles much, but the most important thing seems to be consistency. Abrupt changes in speed and tension are no fun at all. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

But what the homophobes and Mr. Harju don't realize is that the pedophiles are angry with the gays for not supporting what they alone (the pedophiles) believe to be a natural alliance. Apparently Mr. Harju thought he'd found himself a bomb, but he failed to examine it closely before posting the link, as if the very name of the organization would be enough to make his point. So here, according NAMBLA spokesmodel, David Thorstad: The basic argument of the gay movement today boils down to the following: Homosexuals are born that way, and heterosexuals are born that way; therefore, homosexual liberation poses no threat to the status quo and dominance of hetersupremacy. This is the old "nature versus nurture" argument dressed up in new, accommodationist clothes. The gay assimilationists want to become part of an existing, inequitable capitalist society, not change that society in any fundamental way. Their approach is inherently selfish, not altruistic. They seek minor adjustments in the status quo, not radical social change. They have been co-opted by the heterosupremacist power structure. It doesn't sound to me as if the gay community has common cause with pedophiles. I also hear the sound of the toilet flushing on the militant gay agenda. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Good for him! If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

What if I were to tell you that I had spent years in North Yemen and that I absolutely hate Yemenis and hope I never see one again? There's nothing wrong with that until "I hope I never see a Yemeni again" becomes "Yemenis are child molestors," "Yemenis are evil and must be destroyed," "Yemenis are not allowed to live, work, shop in my neighborhood" and somebody comes along and starts shooting, hanging and torturing Yemenis. If you can't see the difference between what Mike is saying and your interpretation of what he said...well, I don't know what to say about that. Tolerance is not welcoming someone with open arms. To the contrary, it is leaving him alone to do as he will. You don't interfere in his life, he won't interfere in yours, even if it just so happens you can't abide the sight of each other. IMO, anything beyond that is pathological. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

But...but...what about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? I'm devastated. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Well, you certainly know how to get my attention, Mark. That's not what I said, and it's not what I implied. "Some" is not "all." What part of that don't you understand? The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter whether parents are gay or hetero. What does matter is that they be good parents. It's not that complicated a concept. As for pedophiles, did you read any of the links I posted? Did you read anything I wrote? Once more into the breach. http://www.joekort.com/articles50.htm To call child molestation of a boy by a man "homosexual” or of a girl by a man "heterosexual" is to misunderstand pedophilia. No true pedophile is attracted to adults, so neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality applies. If you come back one more time trying to justify what you did, it will be quite obvious that you didn't bother to read the article. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I'd help if I could. rl We can always suitably ACCESSORIZE you... Simply specify: "S" / "M" / "L" / "XL" / "Novelty Eiffel Tower Wiff Mains Vibrate"... And we'll do our best to accomodate your accomodating him! Mike. I'm in. Three in XL. I can figure out some way to strap them together, I'm sure. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

By whose definition? I totally disagree with what is considered a personal attack here, and how personal attacks may and may not be used. Your intimation that NAMBLA has something to do with homosexuality was an attack, Mark. I'm not going to analyze it for you, I'm not going to engage, but that one post was enough to change my opinion of you, irrevocably, forever. You can call someone a poopy-head, and I might think you're an idiot, but I'll still talk to you. This sort of tactic, no matter how it is used, puts you on my personal list of people to avoid at all costs. There is no argument so important to win that using such tactics is acceptable. And I have no use for people who use such tactics. I really have no interest in anything else you have to say. I didn't mean to reply to your post in the first place; I just wasn't paying attention, and then when you responded, I realized what I had done. I'm just a little tired today, that's all. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb