RhondaLea

If you are referring to Billvon's senior analogy, I didn't think it was all that great because it seems to me that the "in our faces" train of thought mostly comes from people who don't want to be in the position of answering their kids' questions when asked something like: "Mommy, why are those two men kissing each other?". "Well, little one, those two men are kissing each other because..uh, uh, uh......" "Because they love each other, and that's what people who love each other do." "But mommy, they're both boys." "That's okay, honey. Sometimes that's just the way it works out, some boys love boys, and some girls love girls." "Oh." We got into the more complicated stuff later on. I started educating her early about sex, and what that mostly consisted of was answering whatever questions she asked. Sex is sex. There is nothing more inherently embarrassing for a parent in explaining gay sex than there is heterosexual sex. If you can't talk to your kids about these things, you will pay the price. Not really. Children actually understand sex. They don't understand death at all. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Depends on the context. A guy with a sigline that says "I love boobs" somewhere other than this board may not go over any better than a so-called "gay sig line." In all truth, I'm more offended by the straight guy's sig line than I am by the gay guy's sig line. But that's just me. I'd like to add that I haven't posted in this thread up to now because it made me a little sick to my stomach. I no longer read or respond to Mark's posts, but I got the gist of it, and it nailed me in a place where I'm surprised to find I'm still sore. I'm pretty sure that there are few, if any, incest victims and victims of pedophiles who would actually appreciate Mark's point. We're a little more educated on the subject--have to be because we'd go nuts otherwise--and what we know is that incest and pedophilia both arise from the childish need to control, not from adult sexual desire. I know that Mark did not include incest in his attack, but I am including it here, because I understand the relationship between the two is close in a way that adult homosexuality and pedophilia is not. In other words, the former are very closely related, the latter have no relationship at all. Other than that, the one thing positive outcome of these threads is that they tell me whom I really don't want to associate with, ever in this lifetime, and who I do. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

alright, that's just nasty. double dog gross nasty. i'm flying my parents out for christmas in a couple of days. i won't be able to look at them w/ a straight face after this thread. What a bunch of big babies all y'all are. Seriously. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Gee whiz, I've been scolded for my arguments being full of fallacies! That doesn't even compare. Is this the best you can do? Weak and embarrasing, in my opinion. His argument isn't what is weak and embarrassing. Analogies are supposed to be simple enough so that the parallel is clear. This would be an object lesson in constructing analogies. Learn it, live it. (The Senior Agenda analogy was the better of the two. I love "extremist octogenarian agendas.") rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Could be, but I don't mind associating with people who I don't have a whole lot in common with. Makes life more entertaining. I have a preference for open-minded, non-psychopaths, whether I have something in common with them or not. But I have a strong aversion to to bigoted, conscience-free people, and I can stand all the boredom their absence brings to my life. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Fabric softener, moisturizer and conditioner. Every day. If you were a girl, you would know these things. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Intolerance and oppression on display! I'm damned intolerant of intolerance. As for oppression, the way I figure is that if someone doesn't want to be exposed to something, the thing to do is avoid it. In my case, I'm doing my part by ignoring further such posts; in his case, leaving the thread is a logical conclusion. My remark was neither an invitation nor an order, but merely a helpful suggestion. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Y'know, if this change was sudden, you need to have her evaluated medically and possibly psychologically. I'd also make an appointment with her guidance counselor and some of her teachers, but let them do the talking. If you give them more information than they need, it will affect her (and possibly you) adversely. Some of this kind of behavior is normal in the teen years. For most girl children, it starts earlier, so count your blessings. You have to walk a pretty fine line, because in two years, she's going to be out from under your thumb anyway. Take a look around home and ask yourself some hard questions about your family life. That may be part of it, or not, but only you can tell. A little bit of family counseling might not hurt. Finally, whatever you do, don't snoop. Even Dear Abby could've told you that. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

No more sex for you. Come on now. You're just mad because I didn't tell which side of the fence I'm on I thought you were into ducks. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

No more sex for you. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

My answer would be predictable. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I post here. What other answer is there? If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Although I am not a professional logician, I did paid attention 24 years ago during my logic and reasoning class. I am quite sure that to argue against a position by doing nothing more than asserting that the position is a fallacy, is in itself a fallacy. I gave you the links so you could find all the fallacies yourself. I figured it would keep you busy for a couple of months (years, even), at least. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Y'know, baby, I'm gonna take that whip away from ya and use it where it will do the most good. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Cool. I'm going to make my contribution by not replying to you anymore, and you can do a little self-help (if you believe in self-help, of course) by not reading or posting in this thread. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Actually, exactly what it isn't is a "logical extension" of gay rights. What it is, exactly, is a fallacy in reasoning, although in this case, it's actually more than a single fallacy. I'm impressed. Two links for you: The Fallacy Files and Critical Thinking on the Web But in the end, you're right. If it's between consenting adults, it may be a lot of things, but first and foremost, it is not your business. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Tolerance Approval Lack of approval Intolerance That's something a lot of gays don't want to get. It's you who does not get it. I'm not gay, but I can speak as someone who makes certain choices of which others do not approve. I don't need your approval. Just don't interfere in the way I live my life. That's all. Just mind your own business, and don't pass any legislation that prevents me from doing things that have no effect on you. You can write off Matthew Shepard as a "poster child"? With a straight face? You've contradicted your own point, Mark, whether you realize it or not. Tolerance is not approval. Tolerance is minding your own fucking business and allowing others to live as they choose without your interference. Matthew Shepard not only did not get to live as he chose, he didn't even get to live. Being treated like every other lawful citizen of this country is not preferential treatment. Using colorful and emotive language and more than a couple of fallacies doesn't make your point, btw, but it does make you appear to have an axe to grind. So here's what I want you to do: substitute "skydiver" or "basejumper" for "gay." And then tell me if you want imposed on you the restrictions you would impose on someone else. Tell me if what you want is approval or just to be left alone to do as you will. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Ahem. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

And a fine legal opinion it is. It certainly balances those of us who know we can't change the world, but do know how we would run it if we were designated God Almighty. The law notwithstanding, I still don't know what I'm supposed to do (as GA) with the non-psychopathic (i.e., previously abused) pedophile. (As GA, I'm going to take care of all the psychopaths in my own inimitable way, so we don't need to worry about them.) In all seriousness, what does one do with a person who is what he is because horrible damage that cannot be fixed was done to him? I don't know. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

You most definitely are, but the acronym in your case does not mean what they think it means. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

It's okay, Walt. It's not your fault, although I did try to warn you. It's just that you missed the part where I was...uh...screwing with him. I guess you'll have to ask him if it's dangerous territory or not. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Nyet, nyet. That's my job, not his. I earned the title years and years before he did. But my theory applies to both of us, I think. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Nope. He thinks you are gay. He thinks I'm gay too. I feel a new rendition of the Barney song coming up. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

No shit. It's like the postings get translated to a different language 3 times before he reads them. We can't possibly be having the same conversation. But apparently pointing out the difference between sex and procreation really offended him, and he'll no longer talk to me. Look at it this way, he's willing to accept oral sex and non-vaginal intercourse and homosexuality as long as we're willing to call the various acts involved "pleasure" instead of "sex." I'm totally amazed. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I wish to retract this. My mistake. I thought it was just a misunderstanding, but apparently it isn't. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb