georger

Actually, that's the way we talk when things are going normally. The objective is to use as few syllables as possible to avoid tying up the frequency. That's the sign of a competent, relaxed pilot. When pilots start getting really wordy, that would be a sign of stress or discomfort. REPLY: Good point. You can see this in Scott reading the transcript, and they all get 'wordy' at times (lots of repeating and ahh's and duhh's, uhhhh's), then things settle down, a kind of rythm in the crisis.

....................................... Oh and BTW, thanks for the NWA material. javascript: addTag(';)') javascript: addTag(';)')

Be careful georger, I used the word "illusionist" and Ckret yelled at me! Sluggo That's nuthin. He told me I wallow!

did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug? I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber. Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer. Why thug? There is a dictionary on the internet. ok: 1. A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum. 2. also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her. Definitely on 2..... it all makes sense to me now! Yep. Thuggies. Read about them in a history class. Kali I never heard of. Maybe Cooper was a woman. That's something we havent covered yet. We need the dna for sure now!

and Im very close behind you. Got a date with a Sashquatch and I dont have 37 years more to wallow. weird..my timing is I'm going to be gone middle of next week. REPLY: Must axe. Did a shrink ask you if you thought about robbing banks? A guy I know who spent years in the Hanoi Hilton used to plan 'things'. Youth can also be confining, to some people.

It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero. Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver is another example. He was a rapist and a skyjacker but to many in the 60s he was a revolutionary hero. Maybe some sociologists or psychologists on this forum can shed some light on this phenomena. Read Campbell's "Mythology".

Let's just say that a parachute dedicated to emergency use (a pilot rig) might be considered more reliable than a sport main. The emergency rig has to be packed by a licensed FAA rigger, while a sport main may be packed by the person making the jump. If Cooper had experience walking around the back of a plane dropping objects, he would have been wearing a pilot emergency rig, not a sport rig. The sport rig would have modifications unfamiliar to a load master. It makes sense to stick with something familiar. Sounds like you have background in this, thanks for jumping in. Can anyone confirm that load masters wear PER's when working. Of coures you have go back to the 50's, what did they wear in the 50's? Snowmman? the search king, can you get this. This goes to the theory then that Cooper chose the best chute base on Cooper's experience, but not the best gear available. This then proves, or adds another piece to the puzzle, that Cooper was not an experienced skydiver. The "best" gear to Cooper might have been the biggest pack, if he had nor experience. Big = Most realiable. Or, he could have known that a Pilot rig was an FAA approved rig. Or, he could have thought sport rigs were unrealiable because self packed and not FAA approved. So unless you talk to him you dont know. The logic can go either direction and is therefore inconclusive.

I have always wondered why Cooper did not disguise himself with a wig, mustache, hair dye, makeup etc. It has an "I don't care if I am identified because I am immune to capture" aspect that has always puzzled me. Could he have actually done a masterful disguise that was undetected? REPLY: Cant resist posting this. Have you ever seen a little kid get off his bike and have a whiz right at the side of his bike, as if the bike meant privacy, right out in the middle of a street with the whole world watching and laughing, and some parents & teachers taking notes to complain to the kid's parents with? Some kids never grow up! Something tell me Ckret sees a lot of this in his work?

did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug? I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber. Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer. Why thug? There is a dictionary on the internet.

Right, now i'm off for 2 weeks... nothing to do with sluggo... look forward to seeing what will have transpired in my absence and Im very close behind you. Got a date with a Sashquatch and I dont have 37 years more to wallow.

QuoteI was wondering about anything we might have missed that could apply to the Cooper event. REPLY: His dna and his social security number!

This is an interesting theory happythoughts. Although it sounds along the lines of the 377/vanity theory...i.e. paperback book psychology? Can you explain more. I'm wondering if there's a theory about Cooper we can extract. Are you saying he was concerned about how the world perceived him? Otherwise it would be better to be perceived as nuts in case he was caught, right? I didn't really follow your line of thought. Just noting a variety of theories that I have seen posted. Source of the need for money has been described as bankruptcy, drug addiction, gambling. His demeanor state described as disturbed, angry, pleasant, or mentally ill. If people were posting that I was mentally ill, then I'd want to logon with a fake id and clear up the motivations part. REPLY: Thats you. Not Cooper. You guys need to think about somebody raised in America 1920-1930 with values from that era who was molded by WWII, possibly Korea, who went through many depressions, may have seen his folks go broke and wither away, ................. you are thinking, pardon the phrase, from a 70's to 80s Yuppie point of view. That is not even remotely DB Cooper. Think: "I dont like people that boast".

I support the idea that Cooper would follow any internet discussion of exploits. REPLY - This implies vanity and public exposure. I think Cooper was a very private person and this was one of the keys to his decision in hijacking a plane and leaving no trace.

load master. REPLY: Load Master was one of the military careers tured up in my DOT search. It requires physical agility and little education but unfortunately if a LM had worked in a 727 he would know how to get the reardoor open on the spot and probably would be more decisive and able to make decisions than Cooper was.

Lets break it down this way, would we all agree that Cooper relayed to the crew he had advance knowledge of the flight operations of the 727. The crew answered this for us because they stated they believed from his demands and interactions he did. REPLY: The issue is: how much was illusion brought by a bomb, and how much was fact. The power of illusion is strong when you're facing a bomb. BTW, the profile I have made for Cooper when plugged into the DOT comes out with the following occupations (sit down for this!): (a) circus performer, (b) theatrical including theatrical acrobat, (c) cowboy. This assumes gradeschool education. When you raise the bar with higher education you get: (d) some areas in engineering, (e) military, (f) law enforcement, (g) pilot .............. Cooper was raised 1920-1930s perhaps 18 yrs of age in 1939 during the Depression. I think you have to define Cooper's persepctive in terms of the era in which he was born and raised. As an aside, the idiom "Get the plane on the road" (if these were Cooper's words vs Scotts) derrives from "Get the show on the road" which comes out of the 1910-1930's era of traveling circuses and theatrical performers which spread throughout America. The idiom may be midwestern in origin (Chicago area). Theatrical performers and acrobats rely heavily on the power of illusion.

I think he wanted out of the USA to complete his escape. His original requests were specific: Mexico (City?), do not refuel IN the USA, and if SEA was his bailout point this places him close to the Canadian border. He seemed to want out of the country or at least gives that impression. If he had really wanted to go to Mexico he would have hijacked a flight headed that way ? Instead he hijacks a flight close to the Canadian border. Failing SEA he waits for the next bailout commensurate with going north into Canada. He waits for the lights of Vancouver-Portland and knows the Columbia offers a route of escape where people wont be looking. He bails near BTG, makes his way to the Columbia via hitchhiking, and then walks up the Columbia looking for a boat ride to some point north in Canada. On the way he loses some money which winds up at Tena Bar. Its one scenario.

FDR Question to S-M & Ckret: I want to confirm the FDR did not record any voices aboard 305. True - False ? Are there any voice recordings of 305's communications? I know Ive asked this before but, are there ANY recordings of Cooper's voice or any direct transcription of things Cooper supposedly said, his actual language, as reported by Tina or Scott etc. ?

Consult the I-Ching.

A thank you. Take care. Grandpa George

there could be a little bit of arrogance...."Just fly it like this and I'll get out of it and survive" REPLY - Arrogance or unrealism. This man got "giddy" at receiving the money, was childlike (Tina said), offered Tina some of the money ........... these are very specific factual traits we can use. This is the kind of adult he was. Naive? Deprived? Whether that fits with him being a skilled person I dont know. In fact if you go to the DOT (Dictionary of Occupational Titles) and match personality traits (as measured by the MMPI) with occupational skills Im not sure where naive people would wind up being placed. One other option is, he was mentally ill and semi- delusional. To date we have been looking into DBC's actions to profile him. His non-actions or omissions to act also say something. Example, he got very angry finally, sitting at SEA during fueling and wanted to "get this plane on the road". If he intended to bail at SEA and missed that, he did not get similarly angry. He went all the way to 20:12-16 before bailing and didnt get angry, apparently. He didnt seem angry at 20:05 when he said 'everything ok'. And he didnt act superior and impersonal with Tina when she pleaded with him not to blow her and the plane up - he basically told her he wouldnt, and he didnt.

"10,000 ft and 200mph" are guidelines. Those instructions do not illustrate pre-planning of a flight path. Are there any other facts that support such a theory? It sounds like coincidence that only one route supports a 10,000 ft flight. Using those instructions in Illinois (a cornfield separated by roads), he could have done a survivable jump anywhere. REPLY - I think he had flown the path before (checked it out) and is on some previous passenger list from some origin, under his own name or an assumed name - say six months prior? 305's route began as far away as Wasington DC. if I am correct. I would have thought it rather easy to run previous passenger names to see if one did not connect to a fake name or nonperson rather easily.

very good points!

REPLY: May I make a suggestion: Dont worry so much about the he-said she-said of what Cooper knew or thought etc. All that matters is 8:11-8:16 and a possible DZ. Then go out and look. My guess is its going to take several searches at several locations. I would look first at the old air strip Sluggo seems suspicious of and if that doesnt turn up something go to the next most probable site and look there. A number of people through the yeares have suggested this old abandoned air strip Sluggo cites so it may have already been searched? But, for the very reason you cite: ... "we have little to no evidence in this case so we are creating facts based on reconstruction. Very tricky stuff ..." you must find two or three possible DZ's and do an actual search. I would take along some people who are very good at searching ... like an archaeologist! Looking at Sluggo's images last night it struck me I205 is very close and a straight route to the Columbia which could link to some event and Tena Bar later. It's a thought. Its been a lucky day for me here, Maybe my luck will rub off so I will post this -

Now, just looking at Sluggo's tic map Sluggo also issued a velocity breakdown for each leg between tics. I repost that below. Relating to fuel consumption, how did 305 travel at 202.8 kts (19:57-58) then at 165 knots (58-59), and 243.6 at (20:01-02) then at 182.4 (02-03). I dont understand these large variations in air speed spearated by only 60 seconds each. Maybe that has something to do with fuel consumption? I must not understand Sluggo's chart. Thanks. I think it's due to the plus or minus 1 NM stated error in the radar data and the fact that the tic-marks are all on the even minute (i.e. 20:11 as opposed to 20:11:15). That could produce a lot of variation right there. If the tic-marks were at 15 second deltas (about 0.7 NM each) you would probably get a much different picture. But alas, I'm just guessing. We still have absolutely nothing in the way of explanation for the chart. It was just plopped down on our table, and we made a lot of assumptions. I think they were reasonable assumptions, but assumptions none the less. Maybe Ckret has some accompanying information that we don’t have. Sluggo_Monster REPLY: That's a good explanation. Thanks -

You could feel those two turns without a compass. The one thing if we are going with this theory that I would like to have is a stopwatch though, but like a compass in this case that is more of a backup tool to reconfirm what you suspect. It doesn't get much "easier" than this section of v-23 to do what Sluggo is suggesting. Stopwatch doesnt help if air velocity varies wildly as in Sluggo's tic chart ?