georger

Quote That's a legitimate concern, however given the fact this situation had already generated hundreds (if not thousands) of people interested with some out looking on their own for Cooper, trading gossip, speculating .. the chance was higher than normal that someone from the public might find something ahead of LE. There is always a fine line between asking for public help or not. Its a management issue and in the case of a hijacking there are a lot of party interests at stake. Many (if not most) of the parties involved had been sworn to secrecy as a part of their normal employment. That included Rataczak, incidently. And a probable drop zone had already been given the public, by the FBI. I take it that Robt99 is not 'surprised' by redaction, as much as just citing the fact of it... if it is all intentional redaction. And of course nobody generally was looking for Cooper at Vancouver, especially on the ground. LE as far as I understand it was looking more in Portland for some Cooper connection, and to a lesser extent in the Tacoma area. The scenario concerning how the flight path was developed and by who has been previously developed in this thread. But the oathes people had taken and were working under were a normal routine for many 'handlers' in the Cooper case, and some of it still operates today. I could cite chapter and verse on that.

Odd indeed. Anyone care to guess why the redactions were made? 377 I would say a lot depends on which entity did the redacting. NW was clearly running the show - at least up until the time he jumped and, I've heard, even afterwards - as least as far as access to the employees was concerned. But that part is just rumor. I've often wondered if NWA was forthcoming with all the info to the FBI - esp in light of the concerns about insurance, liability, publicity. No reason to think that they didn't other than idle speculaton, and maybe these concerns weren't as prevalent in 70s as they would be now, but I would imagine that Nyrop would be looking at all the angles.Quote who had what data ... its in this thread ... been discussed before.

Odd indeed. Anyone care to guess why the redactions were made? 377 Quote ... that is a very odd question coming from you. Maybe Jo could fill everyone in! Possible Answer: They all watched Patches?

Then stay on topic... and stop attacking other posters... ***I mean if you want to runt his class give us some direction vs smarm? But at least stay ON TOPIC! ??? every now and then? I keep trying but it keeps falling off the rail ? ? ? Then stay on topic... and stop attacking other posters... OH and as far as SMARM goes... quit projecting onto others that with which you are so full of little grasshopper Why not go back over to your super secret Cooper site... that you want to ban me from.. please.. go because frankly my dear I have never been there... and more importantly.... I don't give a damn.Quote STAY ON TOPIC! ? ? ? ? ? You have me confused with somebody else ...

I already made a Cooper-related post above. It's about Cossey. I just can't figure out why the cops haven't at least ID'd a 'person of interest' yet.Quote And so did I, clear back in MARCH! STILL WAITING ..... !!!!! How many seconds or fractions of seconds for the rear stair closure in the 727 Cooper flight test ? The answer might give cause to think ... ? But you obviously already know everything. SO TELL US! Aamazon?

Quote I see a pattern here. It's been firmly established. I know nothing about Chris Wedes (who ever that is) of what's it's got to do with the Cooper Thread here. This is nothing more or less than an alternate Newsvine column for you, while others are here because it's supposed to be a DB Cooper Thread. You post all of your crap here then Aamazon chimes in to defend you and I see a pattern: Aamazon's sharp tone indicates that SHE thinks this thread is a bunch of bullshit ... and she and a few fellow skydivers have solved the DB Cooper case, long ago, and Aamazon has solved it, since the rest of us are too stupid to see through it! And of course you ride her coatails with equal stature and accomplishment. There it is: as clear as I can put it. Explain the DB Cooper case to the rest of us since you know the solution? Or if it does not matter or is private information, you might give us a hint about that too so some of us can bugger off and let you superior being have your Esteemed Select club.

So when are you going to stop with the copious amounts of very childish attacks?? Talk about loading and it ain't boats Quote Uhh duhhh: last time I checked the topic was DB Cooper not Patches or TV programming for Kids or your topic above morphed by Blevins off Robt99's statement about WEATHER! ??? ! When are you and Blevins going to MOVE ON - ON TOPIC - AS PROMISED? THATS THE ISSUE! What is there about "on topic" you people don't understand? Here: let me direct you back to the topic... What was the closure time of the rear stairs in the DB Cooper Hijacking 727 tests? Why is that important? And why has it taken since March to get back to this after diversion after diversion by . . . Or, you could bring up an On Topic topic? Is there anything in the Cooper case that interests you? I mean if you want to runt his class give us some direction vs smarm? But at least stay ON TOPIC! ??? every now and then? I keep trying but it keeps falling off the rail ? ? ? I didn't bring up Patches ? !

Quote Define "boatload". Can you, Patches? The only load in a cargo container here, ist yous. The only person who misdirects posts is you! You try to reply to everyone off one person you pick at random, not to the people addressing you ....... and sometimes nobody IS addressing you so you reply to the first person handy in order to wade in to spread your wisdom and expertise - We know who the Troll is here, Patches. Will it change? (no) Do you care (no). Is it a technique you employ (yes). Is it you and only you for the mostpart? (yes) So "boatload" is you! I'm really busy this week. Maybe you should drop your rambling on someone else. Nice touch making fun of the dead guy who was loved by practically everyone in the Northwest. Yeah, you'll garner a lot of friends by doing that. Well, maybe not. You call me a troll, but when you hit bottom, you simply reached for the shovel.Quote That's right - change the subject! Keep up the hypocrisy Patches. Then blamming others for it! Did Patches teach ya that? Let's call it your "Patches Defense". Spoiled by tv programming designed to make misanthropes ? And you thought it was everyone else on trial since you appeared on the scene! More venom and violence on the playground! When the 3 year old case managers arrive hide your jewels! Wage Earner Sheeple are vulnerable to more advanced civilsations who attack with wormy truths!

A boatload of posts here are misdirected in the header box. Then again, sometimes people get it right. Most don't even notice after a while. I'll try to remember, but I'm going to expect you to drop your same reminder on anyone else who forgets as well.Quote Define "boatload". Can you, Patches? The only load in a cargo container here, ist yous. The only person who misdirects posts is you! You try to reply to everyone off one person you pick at random, not to the people addressing you ....... and sometimes nobody IS addressing you so you reply to the first person handy in order to wade in to spread your wisdom and expertise - We know who the Troll is here, Patches. Will it change? (no) Do you care (no). Is it a technique you employ (yes). Is it you and only you for the mostpart? (yes) So "boatload" is you!

Quote You know, Blevinaide... Yes all of your shit comes from somebody else - and you publish it mindlessly! Now you post an equally mindless comback, of course. The Shame is on you! You aren't being fair to Patches, dear Fan! Just as you don't have any concern of over Facts and Truth! Patches was one of the longest running locally produced children's programs, you could have let it stand there, like 4 Clydesdales abreast, but you always have to purloin and elaborate things to fit your unbridled Narcicissm; there were other programs that began earlier and ran longer. It may interest you to know that one of the early Iowa Test of Basic Skills tests used in a large Washington State venue included several questions geared to children's exposure to Patches! Bet you didn't know that, or care. Guess who composed some of those orginal Patches questions? I'll leave it to you to research that - it was somebody's wife. You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed!

We actually agree on this. Himmelsbach's claim of a big storm is simply not true. This is one day (Cooper hijacking) that if you were a local to the area (I was) you don't forget. Kinda like 'where were YOU when St. Helens blew its top'? I was a junior at Sumner High School on 11/24/1971, a small town about twenty miles south of Seattle. The weather was light, misty rain off and on all day. The annoying kind that soaks you to the skin if you stand around in it long enough. No big wind, just dreary as hell. I always watched the weather, even as a kid. My brother and I did all the farming and ran the vegetable stand after harvest. Got home from somewhere and watched This Guy on TV. He was pretty popular. (Yeah, I cried when he died in 2012, probably like everyone around here) Then...all the local news stations cut in for Cooper and suddenly everyone's in front of the tube watching the hijacking drama play out on television. BTW: That link up there leads to the JP Patches site, aka the beloved Chris Wedes who played him. Who was JP? Well, he had many official Patches Pals, and former Washington State governor Christine Gregoire was one of them, along with practically everyone else within antenna range of good old KIRO-TV channel 7. There's even a mention about DB Cooper on his History of JP Patches page. From the site: 'Time to look into my Cartoon Hat...'Quote Bull . . . KIRO-TV channel 7 signed on on February 8, 1958. There are many older TV stations in the USA. For example WMT-TV at Cedar Rapids Iowa signed on with ClaraBell the Clown, a full hour kids program, On Sept 30, 1953. ABC’s Mickey Mouse Club debuted in 1955. WOI-TV signed on in 1950 with "Romper Room." KGTV in 1953 with Show n Tell. All of these stations were broadcasting children’s programing on radio clear back in the 1920’s! And of course there was Kukla, Fran and Ollie, created by Fran Allison, originally created for children but soon watched by more adults than children, that first aired on TV in a local venue in 1947. Fran Allison is an icon and a member of my family attended college with her. Buffalo Bill in 1950, etc... the list is endless all predating KIRO-TV in 1958 by a long way. Patches ran from 1958-81 ~23 yrs. Clara Bell ran from Sept 30, 1953-1980 ~27yrs. Mister Rogers' Neighborhood (1968– 2001) 33 yrs. Sesame Street began on November 10, 1969 and in some venues reruns are still running ~43 yrs? Children's programming is as old as radio and television itself. How come you failed to learn and graduate! ? Lack of exposure to the larger world, I guess.

Good points. The description by Tina and Flo have to be weighted more than the passengers because they had to know that if they survived this, they would have to describe this guy to the authorities. The passengers didn't have a clue what was going on. No way that one of them gave a more accurate description.Quote Unfortunately we probably will never know. While Gray's book highlights exceptions there is nothing of an official explanation (commentary) from the FBI side, especially by those who were there and involved. Ckret gave one account but the ciritics dont accept that (in the extreme). Faced with that situation the Kool Aide is ready to be served. Hopfully all concerned will die quietly!

Quote I know of no residues on the biils that come from cows or any other source. I've corresponded with Georger and Tom Kaye on the subject, and I don't know of any substantive findings along these lines. Galen also has a team looking into the subject, but again, I don't know any of his findings. I think the subject is an excellent one to explore. I would think that something would be on the bills that would tell us a bit about where it was for eight years prior to the Ingrams' hot dog roast in 1980. Welcome home. BTW, R99, would you like a free electronic copy of my book on Cooper? I have made this offer to all the DZ's readers as a way to soften up the resistence of the powers that be in the publishing world. My first thought was that pollutants had leaked down through the soil of the retention ditch into the beach sands and thus to the money site. Several people including the Fazios said their cattle had never used the pasture adjacent to the retention area. The reason for being concerned about this was 'things normally pick up traits of the environment they are found in, depending on the amount of time of exposure'. I thought nitrate and ammonia levels in the money might give some clue as to the amount of time the Ingram find had been in its present location. Then it turned out (if the reports are accurate) that the cattle had not been in that area for a number of years. Then several people surfaced to say tey didn't think retention ditch pollutants would convey to the Ingram site area. Then Tom's results didn't seem to show any high levels of ammonia or nitrate commensurate with cattle. The issue kind of fell by the wayside (so far as I know). Mr. Geivette is contending the 'silver in the money' is associated with silver in the Lewis River mud! I wasn't aware the Lewis River mud contains silver or gold (which would be particulate vs solution). Meantime we all know the socalled 'silver in the money' and the 'blackening of some bills' was due to the FBI fingerprinting of the money using a silver nitrate solution. Mr. Geivette has his fact wrong.

It must be damned convenient for you to have Gray's book to back your bias up (you have played that to the hilt since coming here!) and sit here speculating and peddling myth endlessly. Maybe Gray and You arent the final word? If it wasn't Gray it would be somebody or something else _ like Georger! Get a Life!

Quote when you get a moment could you jot in a rectangle or something on a map that defines this area ... even something penciled in on a map then scanned ...? ... to keep in mind for future referece. sounds like you and Meyer had a good fun trip .. I envy it! Thanks G Georger, I don't have a scanner at the present time due to my AIO printer having a disaster a few months ago and I am not going to replace it (but I am planning to get a separate scanner). The area of interest is shown on some of the photos you sent me a few years ago. If you can find one of your most detailed photos, with the money find location indicated, then the containment pond is clearly visible. I am looking at a 13 x 19 inch blow up of one of your pictures and the containment pond looks brown in color on this picture. There is now also a lot more vegetation than shown in this picture. If you can find a copy of this photo, then I can point out exactly everywhere Meyer Louie and I went. Robert99Quote I think I know exactly were you are at. When I get over to my other computere tonight I will post a couple of those photos to check out ... its thearea around that containment pool and the general slope and features around the beach (you were talking about last night) that Im concerned about ... I will be back tonight, maybe later tonight depending on the cloud cover - we have a project going. ps: more of the Geivette story is surfacing and in a word it's "wild"! Really funny. I am told Bruce is all over it.

Georger, I can only speak for myself on this point but after seeing the containment area, and how it is relatively isolated from the rest of the Fazio property by small rises in the ground contours, I see no way that the money could have entered the river coming from the north, east, or south unless it was already within the "basin" that also includes the containment area. These small changes in elevations cannot be seen on any map that I have found of Tina Bar but are readily visible to the naked eye. Robert99Quote when you get a moment could you jot in a rectangle or something on a map that defines this area ... even something penciled in on a map then scanned ...? ... to keep in mind for future referece. sounds like you and Meyer had a good fun trip .. I envy it! Thanks G

Side Note: Can we eliminate the 'cow crapped out the money at Tina Bar' idea? I've raised cows. Anything that goes into their mouths they chew to pieces before swallowing. They're kind of laid back when they eat, LOL. Even partial bundles stuck together with the numbers aligned is very unlikely to exit intact at the other end. Geez. And people say I go overboard sometimes... Quote Nobody has contended that, not even the guy at Vancouver. The issue related to cows was something else. Read the thread?

Never heard of such WW 2 boots. Amazon? Airtwardo? Guru? These Whuffos really get gear configuration all twisted up. Imagine Cooper outfitted by them. Spring loaded jump boots, chest reserve clipped on over the NB 8 container on the jumpers back, the only think we are missing is the Bell Jet Pack. Sending my Cooper twenty to the museum tomorrow. They have a very fine exhibit set up. I love public museums. Glad to help with this. Snow offered to loan some original 71 NWA schedules one which shows Coopers flight. They already had one. I offered my vintage Seafirst bank bag but they had one of these too. Offered my NB 8 rig. Ditto. 377 Quote WW2 spring loaded jumping boots is the tip of the iceberg. You will love other items on the list when it comes out. It's a feast of new claims!

Quote Was considered - ask Tom directly. (The former Chair of Animal Husbandry U-Wash was consulted. He knows the Fazio's and has been at their farm...). The primary pollutants are methane, ammonia, and nitrates. Is there still a runoff retention ditch behind the road, behind the area where the money was found? Confirm three times or more, anything JT says about the Fazio property and its operations over the years. Im sorry but this is necessary. Georger, There is no "ditch", rather it is a "reservoir" (and a fairly large one) with that briar patch that shows in Meyer Louie's picture (with his cap) being on the top of the western rim of the "reservoir". I had not anticipated this "reservoir" being such a short distance from the money find location. Robert99Quote Yes its large by all accounts. I didnt see it at first on maps but then JT pointed it out to me. And there it is. I think the Faxio were more-or-less mandated to put it in to be in compliance with increasingly restrictive environmental regs. In addition the Faxio and JT told me they never really used the west pasture to graze or keep their cattle, but the east pasture immediately adjacent to the feeding lot. I expected to see contamination in Tom's bills but Tom didn't find levels high enought to warrant that conclusion, if Im recalling this correctly . Did you visit the creeks and area further in and east? you were once most interested in, if I have that correct?

he said something about the silver on the bills will match sediments to the Lewis river.Quote Hmmm. Didnt know the Lewis was a silver bearing area? It has the wrong geology doesnt it? The Washougal was ... the silver on some of the bills was from silver nitrate finger printing the FBi did, which was idiotic. Had nothing to do with where the money came from and its geology. Ask him about FBI Lab report No. 6987B-LJ1-3B94 If he says he knows all about that, he's lying.

I might be wrong, but seems like I remember that cattle or cows grazed the Fazio property. Would that be significant to your question?Quote The thread is FULL of info about this! It was a major concern at the time. And I (for one) expected to see contamination. To my knowledge Tom reported no such contamination ... which semeed to verify a number of Fazio's claims (to his credit), ie that his cows had never grazed the beach, that his cows had never spent much time in the south pasture adjacent to the rentention ditch above the beachfront, and that none of his cattle runoff had (ever?) reached the beach because there had been testing done by (XY&Z) on specific dates .... etc. This is merely a synopsis of the reaearch that was done on that issue, as I recall it.

Quote Was considered - ask Tom directly. (The former Chair of Animal Husbandry U-Wash was consulted. He knows the Fazio's and has been at their farm...). The primary pollutants are methane, ammonia, and nitrates. Is there still a runoff retention ditch behind the road, behind the area where the money was found? Confirm three times or more, anything JT says about the Fazio property and its operations over the years. Im sorry but this is necessary.

Quote Any number of people have claimed that McCoy knew the hijacker. McCoy was questioned about that. JT presumably knew McCoy! One person even clainmed that JT knew who the hijacker was ... having served with him, and they werent talking about McCoy. The possible linkages have gone wherever a link could be claimed. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

If Geivett thinks KC is DB Cooper - Geivett is also claiming McCoy knew KC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9xPQ8NtDwU A post by Geivett at youtube 2 weeks ago below Paul Geivett 2 weeks ago He was one of the top 6 suspects and its not gosset or mc coy but mc coy did know db cooper cooper lost 60,000 of the money but was found and 6000 was placed on beach for brian I to find on purpose If you look on You Tube he comments on about 98% of the videos with the same template. he is making some pretty crazy accusations, but some of what he says makes sense. he links McCoy, but not directly. he went thru the many different stories about how the Ingram's fit in. the money was planted. how this was done is another far fetched conclusion.Quote Thinking further about his Ingram story, everything he has said so far was public knowledge at one time or another, albeit being very old public info. And he could very easily have read everything here if he has followed this thread for years. The snafu between Crystal and Pat regarding who found the money and both parents seeking a reward (separately) became public knoweldge when (N & B) contacted a newspaper and a radio station pressing their claims, in the same week the money was turned in to H. All of that has been mentioned here in this thread, in addition to it being publically aired at the time. The thing new is this claim that Brian has 'confessed' that the discovery was a plant and a put-up-job. At some point Brian will be called on to issue a statement ...

Quote sounds good. sounds neutral which is a pleasant change.