georger

Quote In a word, you aren't missing anthing... because there is nothing there to miss ... it is what it is ... no logical connective tissue or facts between Tom's rubber band tests and 'time of burial'. The two don't automatically connect at all, especially the way Tom lays this out. So, don't strain yourself looking for what is not there. Or, whatever it is Tom has failed to state or deliver. It literally is what it is: which is a failure to show a causal connection between rubber band deterioration (as a clock) and arrival/burial of the money at Tina Bar. The problem is NOT you. The problem is Tom's science and lack of explanation. Now, if Tom had said: 'we analysed fragments of the bands found on the Ingram money and found 40 neutrinos per mg3 loss compared to new rubber bands, and as we know neutrino loss in rubber bands has a documented loss rate of .0003 N-loss per year when rubber bands are left exposed to Uv and O2 at the surface of the Earth (in Salem WA) ... we thus conclude that the money and its bands were probably buried in somewhere near the surface of the Earth exposed to some level of UV and O2, in about the year -133,333.333 (BC). Those are our calculations. Our calculations have been peer reviewed. This places the burial of the Cooper money somewhere in the Eemian (also Sangamonian, Ipswichian, Mikulin, Valdivia, Riss-Würm) interglacial period which began about 130,000 years ago and ended about 3:00pm last Tuesday, by our calendar...' If Tom had said something like that, we would have something to work with. Unfortunately all we have is: rubber bands glaze over and die (break) within one year and that means the Cooper money was buried early, sometime in ... 133,333.333 (BC)! You aren't mising anything - there is nothing there to miss. Pending a further explanation by Tom, there is nothing there being missed because the causal connectives Tom might have shown are what is missing. It isn't quite at the same level as another propeller theory but it is not the readers job to supply the chain of factual connectives, that make a reasoned arguement. Tom may have facts he isn't presenting for some reason. However it is not the reader's job to supply missing facts that make a well-connected arguement. Maybe whoever wrote Tom's results up for his website is just a poor communicator? I don't know. But it is not the reader's job to have to guess in matters like this - My personal feeling is I don't like having to say these things. I can only try and describe and relate what I see or fail to see. Science is not supposed to be a mind reading exercise!

I thought you were going to stop picking on Gayla... She's prettier than you are, I'm sure. (Georger refers to the fact that Gayla is a former Miss Vista, California) Massive CORRECTION! YOU ARE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT AND KEEPS BRINGING GAYLA PROCIV BEAUTY QUEEN UP! JUST AS YOU SHOW US PHOTOS OF YOUR RAISNG A HEAVY PIECE OF LAWN FURNITURE ABOVE YOU HEAD IN A SNOWSTORM WITH ONE HAND! WHAT YOUR USE OF GAYLA PROVCIV AND LAWNCHAIRS IN SNOW STORMS HAS TO DO WITH THIS THREAD - ONLY YOU KNOWS! The rest of us read and see this self advertising promo shit and take it as a wacko at work simply being an idiot! I only work here! PLEASE MOVE ON!!! ALLOW US TO TALK ABOUT COOPER!!! Screw you and Gayla Prociv and lawnchiairs etc etc etc etc

Anyone who thinks it was within a year of the find needs to read Tom Kaye's analysis on his web page. There can be no misunderstanding that he plainly states within a year of the hijacking itself. Robert99Quote ... and: just above the deeper clay strata level which Tom says Palmer misidentified and actually is, the clay base to the whole river! Thus, the money was not newly arrived as Palmer said, but older and weathered out of a deeper level due to erosion, with a newly arrived 'upper active level of sand' added on top (due to the flood of 79). ... all of this because: Rubber bands deteriorate (break) in less than one year when exposed to Nature, as revealed by smog studies in CA and Tom's own tests. The Critical Clue: 1. Rubber bands deteriorate within one year, in nature. 2. The Ingram bands were . . . . . what? Still on the bundles? In what condition? (he doesn’t define that). 3. "Interpretation: The bundles must have been buried while the rubber bands were still pliable, within approximately one year of the skyjacking." 4. The found money was 9 years old. Who knows how old the rubber bands already were when applied to the Cooper money. (Tom didn’t ask ... doesn;t state that?) 5. Rubber bands are a clock. (How are rubber bands a clock in this case? Tom doesn't explain...) Criticism pending further explaination: This is about the same precision as trying to hit the Moon with a rock, shot from a slingshot, aimed in the direction of the neighbor's barn. Pending some statement of the condition the Ingram rubber bands were in, I fail to see any connection between Tom's rubber bands tests and the Ingram find at all.Moreover, Tom did not have any of the Ingram rubber band fragments to inspect or test, so far as I know? Interpretation: Tom's rubber band tests say nothing about 'when the money was buried'!

Robert replies: Well, we're not exactly Random House, Georger. AB is run out of two small offices in the upstairs of a condo. In the trade publishing biz, we're definitely small press category. However, we are a registered US trade publisher with our own ISBN prefix, and have our account with Bowkers. Since we release everything at the trade rate through Ingram (biggest distributor of titles on the planet) I guess that makes us just as legit as the big boys, only a lot smaller. Books are printed and shipped via Lightning Source, the printer for Ingram, and are made available in the US (Levigne, TN outlet), Europe, UK, Asia (Milton-Keynes facility near London) and through LSI's new outlet in Australia. We are not a 'self-publisher' and don't ship our own books unless by special order. We also have a SAN assigned to us by Bowker. Georger says: ***"Oh! That guy!" Runs one of those self publishing outfits. Sells only on Amazon, I see. He sure doesn't register in the normal trade publishing network here. Let me ask (cccc) who has been here 30 years. Ok I think I have something now. CCCC says he gave a reading over at xyz once after he wrote that Cooper book. The reading was a complete flop, a real dud, laughable she says. He wont be invited back. No wait .... CCC has just corrected me. She doesn't think it was him who read but somebody from that Advetnure books in his place. Whatever! But I can assure you he's not part of mainstream here in Seattle by any stretch. ..." Robert replies: The only place I ever did a reading on Blast was at the Auburn Avenue Theater ONCE, back in 2011 when I did the slideshows. No one else from AB has ever done a reading for the book elsewhere. Some time ago, I was invited to do one down in Graham near where Bruce Smith lives, but I declined. 'Mainstream' is a tricky term in the publishing biz. A lot of what separates mainstream from small presses is the marketing budget. No, we don't fly sales reps around the country and try to convince bookstore managers to stock AB titles. It is cost prohibitive. The upside of that is that we don't have to sell 50,000 copies initially simply to turn a profit on a new title, as they do. Most sales originate because bookstore managers order from the wholesale Ingram catalog, or jobbers list our titles at Amazon. ('also available from THESE sellers...' etc) From time to time I make local marketing and promotion efforts and try to keep some titles stocked in local Puget Sound area bookstores, but that's about it. We actually make more each year doing proofreading, editing, and book packaging for other authors than we do selling books. Georger: Absolutely no one except me ever posts under my name here at Dropzone. No one else. Just me.Quote Now THAT wasn't THAT difficult was it! Sure beats riding 4 Clydesdale's abreast while holding heavy lawn chair over your head with your right hand, swimming the Puget Sound with your left arm, being Lost for 30 days in the wilderness of Wolf Valley, and pushing a broken down white mini van up a logging road with your ass, and doing promos for AB Books, Nat Geo, and Gayla Prociv Beauty Queen ! Not to mention Auburn Hooplah Days, Youtube Music recommendations, your columns on Newsvine, CNN, and Winkels forum ... Busy guy you are. Hell I get worn out just reading Dropzpone alone!

Quote Well its quite simple. You have been claiming you had never heard of DB Cooper (or any Cooper) before such that you could tie anything Duane said to DB Cooper, or any Cooper ... that your mind was empty and innocent. Now just above you cite all over again the very references which show you had been exposed to "DB Cooper" and Duane had mentioned DB Cooper ... so you had been exposed to the name Cooper and the name DB Cooper ... so that when DAN Cooper supposedly is dropped ... you made no connection? I mean what you are claiming Jo, is that you were an innocent naive empty vessel on the one hand, but educated and fully exposed to references and the name "Cooper" and even "DB Cooper", on the other hand. How did it evolve from you and Duane driving by Richard McCoy's house where he was killed by the FBI, a real Cooper suspect, ... to Duane Weber of all people being D.B. Cooper. I mean thousands and thousands of people drove by McCoy's house. How come they aren't all D.B. Cooper too! ? How come all of those people's wives aren't claiming their husbands were DB Cooper too, and had confessions and evidence too? But, it is now firmly established you had heard the name Cooper before. That fairy tale is now gone.

Quote Well ... yes you were. Why are you smart one minute dumb the next? By your own admission back in the thread, you said Duane drove you by COOPER'S house (a number of times when you lived at Virginia Beach). Dan Cooper. Hiram Cooper. DB Cooper. Maybell Cooper. McCoy-Cooper! Hijacker! They are all COOPERS! DUHHHHHHhhhhhhhh. You know a Cooper one minute then don't know a Cooper the next? What do you take us for? Suckers? Idiots? Forgetfull? Wage Earner Sheeple? Is there anything at all that you officially 'approve of' that anyone posts? Just wondering... Quote HuH? What business is it of yours!? You are confused as usual. Stop with the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" scam. The point at stake with Jo is: (read carefully Blevins. You might get this confused..." Jo now claims she had never heard of DB Cooper before ... specifically before her and Duane's trip to WA, if that trip even occurred! Back in the thread we discussed Duane driving Jo passed McCoy's house and the issue was: was McCoy DB Cooper! Jo;'s forst documented ploy with Himmelsbach was that she thought Duane "knew who Cooper was". So quite obvious Jo had heard of DB Cooper before! Now she is claiming she never heard of a Dan Cooper ... or a DB Cooper .... ever! Or, since you are an expert on everything... why dont YOu tell the story? Huh? Anger Management Problem, LOL. I have to admit, you seem like the most frustrated person I have never met. Thank God for that. Quote Good nite pretender - the famous author and critic and book publisher in Seattle Washington who literally nobody in the book sales, publishing, or writing network has ever heard of before! So ... they had to look you up! "Oh! That guy!" Runs one of those self publishing outfits. Sells only on Amazon, I see. He sure doesn't register in the normal trade publishing network here. Let me ask (cccc) who has been here 30 years. Ok I think I have something now. CCCC says he gave a reading over at xyz once after he wrote that Cooper book. The reading was a complete flop, a real dud, laughable she says. He wont be invited back. No wait .... CCC has just corrected me. She doesn't think it was him who read but somebody from that Advetnure books in his place. Whatever! But I can assure you he's not part of mainstream here in Seattle by any stretch. ..." Am I addressing the same RobertMBlevins of self promoted Adventure Books in Seattle Washington, or are you some other guy? Famous writer-Editor, tv celebrity, friend of producers and FBI agents, ... the real-deal scholar and writer RobertMBlevins ? Or is this somebody else posting again tonight?

Jo Replies: I never said Duane THREW anything in the river at Tena's bar. I said he buried it behind the house and on the beach behind the house. It is extremely important you understand the statement. Buried and behind the house and on the beachside of the old fence. Quote But yes you have - thousands of times! Its in the thread. Your whole gig for years was that Duane threw "a paper bag" into the Columbia from the parking lot near the Red Lyon Inn ... thus his bag winds up at Tina Bar ... thus the Cooper money is found. You cant keep up with your own fabrications! You call them "white lies", not "whole lies" ... remember? You also now claim you never heard of DB Cooper before! Specifically before the alleged trip to WA (you & Duane). Previously inthe thread however, you told us how Duane drove you by McCoy (DB Cooper's) house at Virginia Beach out of curiosity .... the very house where the FBI shot and killed McCoy/DB Cooper. This was years before any trip to WA with Duane. Then you told Himmelsbach in your very first phone call that Duane 'knew who Cooper was' ... not that Duane WAS Cooper ! So quite obviously from your own testimony you have known all along who "Cooper" was! We went around with this same game once before - remember? You finally claimed "I didnt listen to the news much!" We laughed. Your fabrications have come a full circle.

Quote Well ... yes you were. Why are you smart one minute dumb the next? By your own admission back in the thread, you said Duane drove you by COOPER'S house (a number of times when you lived at Virginia Beach). Dan Cooper. Hiram Cooper. DB Cooper. Maybell Cooper. McCoy-Cooper! Hijacker! They are all COOPERS! DUHHHHHHhhhhhhhh. You know a Cooper one minute then don't know a Cooper the next? What do you take us for? Suckers? Idiots? Forgetfull? Wage Earner Sheeple? Is there anything at all that you officially 'approve of' that anyone posts? Just wondering... Quote HuH? What business is it of yours!? You are confused as usual. Stop with the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" scam. The point at stake with Jo is: (read carefully Blevins. You might get this confused..." Jo now claims she had never heard of DB Cooper before ... specifically before her and Duane's trip to WA, if that trip even occurred! Back in the thread we discussed Duane driving Jo passed McCoy's house and the issue was: was McCoy DB Cooper! Jo;'s forst documented ploy with Himmelsbach was that she thought Duane "knew who Cooper was". So quite obvious Jo had heard of DB Cooper before! Now she is claiming she never heard of a Dan Cooper ... or a DB Cooper .... ever! Or, since you are an expert on everything... why dont YOu tell the story? Huh?

It is what happened before and after and before....Too many unusual thing Duane said and did on that trip and after the money find and then nothing for another 15 yrs and then tell me he is DAN Cooper - like I was supposed to know who Dan Cooper was!Quote Well ... yes you were. Why are you smart one minute dumb the next? By your own admission back in the thread, you said Duane drove you by COOPER'S house (a number of times when you lived at Virginia Beach). Dan Cooper. Hiram Cooper. DB Cooper. Maybell Cooper. McCoy-Cooper! Hijacker! They are all COOPERS! DUHHHHHHhhhhhhhh. You know a Cooper one minute then don't know a Cooper the next? What do you take us for? Suckers? Idiots? Forgetfull? Wage Earner Sheeple?

Don't forget about Paul Geivett. Who? I was talking about actual professional folks who work in media. Not Cooper Nuts. Actually, Marisa Kagan has gotten out of History Channel and is currently studying toward her law degree down in the LA area. Peter Berg is HERE. He's working with Nat Geo and has his own production company now.Quote Not Cooper Nuts.

Thanks for the information. There are more stories in circulation as to who found the money and what was actually found at Tena Bar than there are people to tell them. But all of them seem to have some common ground in stating that it was not Brian Ingram who found the money and that the Ingrams didn't notify the law enforcement people, at least not the FBI, until the next day (which was a Monday) and not until they had talked to some other people about the money. Then the FBI didn't visit Tena Bar until Tuesday. Are you willing to elaborate on what you talked to Ingram and Carr about? And do you have any more information on the specific location where the bundles of money were found? Also, were shreds of bills found in the area and was all of the money at about the same level in the sand? There is probably more disinformation out about the money and its discovery than valid information. Robert99Quote It is 1000% obvious the poster doesn't know what he's talking about. If he got this nonsense from some neighbor then that neighbor was FOS. He doesn't even have the basic facts in had. So sorry. GO BACK AND REED THE THRED. BTW: a great deal of this is public record anyway. Why are these moroons guessing and making stories up about what is public record and public fact, in the first place. It was in the newspapers and on the radio! Obiously 'that neighbor' can;t read and hasa tin ear~! Its laughable. And Im talking specifically about Crystal Ingram married to Harold's brother and their daughter DENISE! Except for Harold's brother they were all there. And Crystal had at least one formal meeting with Himmeslbach etal at the FBI office in Portland. ............ REED THE THRED! This has all been laid out before years ago. (Maybe it got covered up by Weber and Blevins?) GO BACK AND REED THE THRED. See yawl at the Lazy-Z Reunion in Vancouver ... Yeeehaw! Merry Christmas!

Then it happened, then he told me something that would only be known to the people that were on the beach that day, not even the FBI. "It was really the little girl that unearthed the money, not the other kid (Brian) She was too scared and shy to go in front of the news reporters and cameras" Now I knew someone was hiding something and still didn't understand the BA Connection... I soon learned it. My neighbor told me BA _____________where the Cooper money had been found.. He told me and I quote: "BA kept saying how badly the FBI had treated the Ingrams, one of them had actually gone to jail on an out of state warrant. I really started to research the finding of the money. I thought for sure the I would find out where the little girl had now taken credit for finding the money, but no. So now I knew there were still secrets being kept about how the DB Cooper money was found. Quote Well your neighbor fed you a bunch of Whoppers(@). Not one word of what you say your neighbor said is true - Go back and READ THE THREAD for the facts if you're interested. This is no longer open for discussion - by me at least. Instead GO REED THE THRED. It's all there and more. Merry Christmas! Oh! and see you at the Lazy-Z reunion in November.

I don't agree that the hijacker was from some place far from the Northwest. Doing this crime was dangerous enough, but to consider jumping at night over a state you've never or seldom visited doesn't make sense to me.Quote Who said he hadn't (seldom) visited? How in hell do you know? What brand and color of underwear did he wear? His favorite hooch? His dog's name? His State of birth? His girlfriend's name? Name of "that woman"? What time and day will the world end? What time and day did Creation begin? How many dogs did Thomas Jefferson own, and their names please.

*** Don't know. But here's something for you KC fans, wherever you are: The closest JC Penney to where Kenny Christiansen lived is on a street he would have taken between his apartment in Sumner, WA and the SeaTac Airport. It is located near the intersection of Main and 'A' streets in Auburn, WA. The building is still there and still painted with the Penney's logo, although it has been closed for some years. At that time, the Highway 167 freeway was not in existence. So...from the part of Sumner where Kenny lived, you drive north out of town along the East Valley Road, which turns into 'A' street in Auburn. Store was near intersection of Main and A. Then you continue north along 'A' street, which turns into Central Ave in Kent. From there, you cut west up the hill and take either Pacific Highway 99 or Interstate 5 to the airport. It was the shortest, most sensible route back then. Before you start checking maps and arguing that point, you should know I've been living in this same area for more than 40 years now. Just saying. Now...this doesn't mean KC was Cooper. You could drive to a Penney's anywhere, and no one knows anyway if Cooper borrowed the tie, stole it, got it from a Goodwill or a Salvation Army store, or whatever. It's just interesting, that's all. I don't agree that the hijacker was from some place far from the Northwest. Doing this crime was dangerous enough, but to consider jumping at night over a state you've never or seldom visited doesn't make sense to me. Why are you addressing mewith this? I didnt make the post - Shutter did.

Quote Nuttal? as in George Nuttal ? I think your mind is playing tricks on you. How about Abraham Lincoln?

I don't know why she would want to intimidate me. If she knew anything about me, she would know I am impossible to intimidate. I don't pretend to have all the answers. I am here to learn and exchange ideas in a civil manner. I will continue to do that regardless of what she thinks and says. Jo Weber, AKA Mrs. Cooper, is scared to death that someone will finally discover the identity of the real D. B. Cooper and that it will NOT be Duane Weber, her deceased husband. Jo has been on a crusade for the past 17+ years to prove that Duane Weber was Cooper. Her motive for doing this remains unclear. But Jo Weber is the biggest mystery on this thread, even bigger than Cooper himself. Robert99Quote Jo a mystery? Hardly. She deludes having control of this her thread she says she founded! As we all know we came here to attraction of Jo, that Mrs Cooper who Himmelsbach wishes would stop calling... just ignore her.

this would be with the assumption Cooper lived in this area correct? keep in mind the tie appears to have been used prior to this crime. Tie Tac holes are present in the tie prior to having the tie clip on it. how do we know he didn't fly into Portland under another name, or take a bus, hitchhike lol who knows......can we really assume he was from Portland/Vancouver? or do you have a different angle?Quote This brings me back to something I almost posted the other day ... Sluggo thought Cooper might have picked a place for his hijacking as far away from his home base as possible ... a section of the country in limbo (in the boondocks) with few hijackings and poor security. Snowmman then proved flight 305 was a recent addition since the August only, which began its day on the east coast. The last short flight of the day after a long day - crew tired - day before Thanksgiving - security low and off guard. Cheap ticket. Cheap clothes. If he had just recently purchased the tie in Portland how is the cocktail formed on it within say a year ...?

My opinion of you is based on yrs of dealing with individuals trying to develope their own story - you are feeding on these guys - Yo... Jo, take a break! Cool off. And PLEASE dont screw up the page format with your madd typing ...

Quote Ich habe mich sehr amüsiert über all dies, warum sind Sie hier?

LOL are you kidding? You're the one trying to change history. Present proof. And we're not discussing Kenny Christiansen here. Your dodge over to that shows me you have basically zip. Unless there is something, and in that case I think you should present it.Quote Well here's some history, Hobart. NO! On second thought, YOU give US the history, for a change! Recite if you will, the FBI dialectic of the Flight Path for the following periods. Include revisions, statements, announcements, names et cetera you wish to cite. 1971-1972. 1972-1974 1974-76 (San Francisco Conference) 1976- August 1980 post 1980-1995 1995-c.2006 2007- to date "What makes YOU right, and the FBI and NWA WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question.", asks Hobart Hobart, who are you kidding! ?

So, your assumptions are better than Hobart's? We're not talking about any assumptions I may or may not have made. You are re-directing and dodging the question...again. And who the hell is Hobart? The only one I know is the little town not far out of Issaquah.Quote I snipped all of your crap. "And who the hell is Hobart?", you ask/demand! Hobart? Hobart who? Why do you feel the need to reply to every Tom, Dick, and Hobart that comes down the pike? I haven't the faintest idea who Hobart is. You?

Robert, you make a LOT of assumptions with those statements. First, you don't know WHEN Cooper might have tried the ripcord. Maybe he did it right off the stairs, as 377 and I have suggested. Rataczak has already stated that the stairs only had 24-36" of headroom on their initial opening, which means either Cooper leaned really far over to squeeze through that opening, or he backed down the stairs. Carrying the load he did, I favor the back-down theory. As I've said previously, if you go FORWARD and those stairs take a sudden drop from your weight, you could easily go head-over-heels and right off the end. Two chutes, a moneybag, a briefcase. Big load. And who says it was a 'dark and stormy night'? Dark yes, stormy no. Cold, definitely yes. And how do you figure that 305 was a few miles WEST of the Interstate 5 freeway when it passed by Tina Bar? You have no evidence showing that. You may have some evidence that the flight was not exactly where it was shown on the flight map at certain times, but only in a basically north-south direction, not east or west. You keep trying to move the flight west somehow, in order to explain the Tina Bar money. You also don't explain how...if Cooper impacted on ground as you say...why no one has found anything at or around Tina Bar except approximately three bundles of the ransom. You have an entire scenario cooked up here, but it relies on two UNPROVEN and RATHER LARGE assumptions: 1) Cooper died in the jump. 2) The flight was west of the freeway by miles. The first is unknown and unproven, and frankly...not supported by the slightest shred of evidence. The second is simply unproven. I've attached a demo picture that may not be completely realistic, but does show that sometimes people DO secure things around their waist when jumping, and survive. Quote So, your assumptions are better than Hobart's?

Quote Some people would argue there is no such thing as an 'uncommon criminal'. I harken back to the Vietnam protest days. Having a political agenda was a common excuse. Recall the SDS. (The animal rights people today? Really any extremist group who will resort to violence). I think Cooper had an agenda just like a lot of people back then had. It was personal and not just theatre. He was out to make a personal point. His "point" connects somewhere in the world. Maybe a journalism photo instructor named __________ who liked theatre and used to parachute in to deliver his tests, each semester whose wife was a strong supporter of the SDS ? The tie cocktail wouldn't tie to him, however ? I think Cooper was somebody with a real life, somewhere.

From my understanding, the interphone was not used and all communications between cockpit and cooper were through hand delivered notes sent via stewardess. Is this true? Quote Not true. Read the Transcript. Tina relayed messages for him via the interphone - on at least one ocassion he used the interphone himself. Would the crew recognise his voice if they heard it again? Yes. There may even be a recording(s) of his voice! He didn't hide his voice! There is one old rumor that Himmelsbach listened to a recording of Cooper, other agents also, and this is the basis for H saying Cooper 'used filthy language and was profane'. Tosaw asked about this rumor but apparently could not get it confirmed ... there is no mention of it in his book!

Quote When unique events are coterminous they quite aften are related. Unique tie ~ unique tie cocktail ~ hijacking ~ found on the hijacker's seat (all in the same time frame). Its sort of like, a meteor strike. Maybe he left a calling card to identify 'the guy with the grudge who now has $200k of their money'. He didn't make any effort to hide his finger prints, his saliva on the butts & glass, etc etc. And he plans to travel on foot after landing to somewhere. Even the amount of money he demanded is reasonable. This is a guy who is acting out of purpose. He has reasons and a personal history.