georger

I'm sure we both would like to see some real test flow data! Can your Russian probability modeler handle problems with only non-numeric (alphabetical) data? Robert99Quote what do you mean? what type of alphabetic data? You mean like the probabiity of occurrence of protein types? Numbers have to enter the picture somewhere? The problem is there are no numbers involved, it is purely alphabetical data that has been massaged at least once and probably more. Some of the massaging is evident and some is not. So there are a number of steps that must still take place to come up with anything useful. The problem is about one step short of voodoo. Robert99Quote Alphabetic 'data' in relation to what? Is there a ranking of some kind in the data? Are you looking for a statistical analysis of letter occurrence ? What do the letters refer to?

If he bounced near Tena Bar wouldn't his remains/rig have been discovered? Are you suggesting he splashed in the river? 377 That would seem logical. I doubt that he went into the river, but I do think he landed very close to the water. If he did splash, I think the odds are that he and everything with him would have stayed intact and kept going downstream. For the first few minutes in the water, Cooper would probably have had sufficient buoyancy to stay on the water's surface even if dead. Maybe Cooper came from a short distance upstream to Tena Bar, but it would take quite a while for the money bag to deteriorate to the point that the money could separate in a relatively benign matter as it apparently did. The construction activities for the Flushing Channel are a big unknown here. Those activities, along with the construction of the marina where Amazon kept her boat, are possible game changers. But as far as we could tell, Meyer Louie and I didn't get within two or three feet (the approximate limit of our equipment) of the parachute hardware (which is what we were actually looking for) that was with Cooper during our recent visit to Tena Bar. Robert99Quote Did you have a metal detector?

I don't have an opinion on whether the money was planted or not. I think more tests need to be done with a Canvas bag and rubberbands inside. Old Army Tents were made of Canvas and were water resistant. This type of canvas could have helped preserve the money and rubberbands from the elements before the Canvas bag ultimately broke apart (or money fell out) and the three bundles ended up at Tena's bar. Quote The real problem is 'how does that canvas bag get there in the first place'! Especially if the flight path is miles away.

Quote May indicate he was flustered and insecure about the whole enterprise he had launched and its outcome. (This well trained former paratrooper?). That's a good observation.

Quote Wind from the ocean. Interesting. Fastest water on west side, yes. The channel is on the west side. The river opens up to a cavity just before Catapillar island with T-Bar on the north end of that cavity. Flow is south to north. Pressure is lower in that cavity - things would tend to collect there. As the north end of that cavity narrows pressure increases (suction effect) which would tend to pile things up behind the restriction (which is now at the south end of the Fazio beachfront. Things are now free to be swept onto the Fazio property and down the length of the Fazio beachfront, depending on water level. Its a natural collecting point for things swept back into the cavity which Catapillar Isle occupies ... and an area of erosive forces as photos document. If the water level is high things are going to tend to snag on the bushes and trees that are at the top edge of the beachfront ... right below which Ingram says the money bearing sand was found. Its a natural funneling area with lower erosive forces compared to at the south end of the Fazio beachfront ... things that snag and get buried high up on the beach at the north end would tend to stay there longer vs. at the more open wider south end. Dredging spoils have always been placed in the south area vs the north end due to higher erosive forces at the south end. And coincidently, the north end is where the Ingram bujdles were buried and found ... the Ingram find was in a particular area relative to the whole beach front (south to north). That's one possible scenario. The pressure differential between the cavity (which contains Catapillar Island with the Fazio property at the north end) and the broader faster water of the main channel west of this cavity, is crucial to debris building up in the cavity, to be brought up onto the Fazio property as escape pressure increases at the north end of the cavity where the cavity rejoins the main channel. Low pressure in, high pressure out, which is exactly at the north end of the Fazio beachfront. Look at the map. Erosion due to high pressure at the north end of this nozzel is high - you can see the pronounced erosion effects in this area in photos 1950 - 2000, in spite of efforts to rebuild this area periodically with dredging sand. (Its a fact of nature and a resource right on the Faxzio property that helped the Fazios get into the sand recycling buisiness! Key to their financial success.) Again, this is one possible scenario ..

Robert99 The flushing channel was not there in 1971.... AND only high water would provide "flushing" and August is not high water. Go back again during a warm spell in DEC or JAN after the mountains get lots of snow.. and the warm weather melts off all the lowland snow AND melts the mountain snowpack. Floods down there are fun. Most of my property on Puget Island disappears underwater since it is outside of the dyke that the road is built on.Quote Where do the bulk of things that wind up on Tina Bar come from? I realise this may be an ignorant question -

Earlier is better in this case. The money would have to be out of the bag for this to happen in my opinion. And, of course, an early date of arrival at Tena Bar supports Tom Kaye's conclusions. I consider Georger's Hypothesis to have now been proven and will not question it further. Robert99 in your opinion, based his study, is it your opinion that the money was planted? or not? A simple question, remember its only your opinion and it is not to be attacked. You are entitled to have one without me being mean to you. so, yes it was planted, or no it was notQuote So far I dont see anything that indicates or 'requires' a plant. Tom takes an interesting slant with this. He says not brought there by natural means which I guess includes by water, air, mud flows, etc. Then he says 'not necessarily plant by human means, but could be a 'mechanical plant' - and Im not sure what he has in mind by 'mechanical', because the only mechanical plant option I am aware of would be the 1974 dredging which I believe Tom also rejects? I think the date of delivery and the means of delivery are probably related. For example, if it could be shown that the money arrived during a flood period, then it is doubtfull the money arrived with the dredging or by somebody standing in water buring it. There are some tests that might shed light on when the money arrived (and was buried). If the money was buried only a few months before Ingram found it and was elsewhere exposed to the air say between 1971-1979, then there are test which might reveal that fact. I think the money has to speak for itself independent of any consideration of the flight path. That was the original goal and I dont see that that goal has changed. That goal may be slightly difficult to fulfill, but forensic people are very creative and motivated. I think probability is on the side of the money having arrived on Tina Bar by natural means - its the time and circumstance that is causing a problem.

I'm sure we both would like to see some real test flow data! Can your Russian probability modeler handle problems with only non-numeric (alphabetical) data? Robert99Quote what do you mean? what type of alphabetic data? You mean like the probabiity of occurrence of protein types? Numbers have to enter the picture somewhere?

Earlier is better in this case. The money would have to be out of the bag for this to happen in my opinion. And, of course, an early date of arrival at Tena Bar supports Tom Kaye's conclusions. I consider Georger's Hypothesis to have now been proven and will not question it further. Robert99Quote There is nothing in the Palmer or other reports that I could find that states what the geometry of the Ingram bundles was when found - it all hinges on Pat and Brian's description after the fact. Maybe Tom knows something I dont know, or found something at Seattle? Fresh bills slide against each other easily and those bands didnt offer much holding power, and after six months even less holding power.

Quote Not a bad idea. There have been flow studies, a number related to Vancouver Lake (Snow cited several) but nothing specific to Tina Bar that I could ever find. Maybe I was just too lazy...

Okay. Georger here are the facts again as shown in Tom Kaye's money analysis which is available on his web page. The money in Tom Kaye's illustration was clearly constrained only on one end when found. It may have had two or more rubber bands on it when delivered to Cooper but all the bands either moved to one end of the bundle or else the other bands disappeared and only one band on one end of the bundle was holding it together when it was finally covered by sand. Assuming that the Georger Hypothesis (that the bills were found flat side down) is correct, then the "fanning" of the bills took place while the bottom of the bundle was constrained by the sand and the top of the bundle was exposed to moving water. The "fanning" and removal of portions of the top bills in the bundle would require some time, perhaps two or three weeks. When the bundle was completely covered by sand, the "fanning" would stop. Then quite a bit of time passes, the Ingrams decide to dig a fire pit, and the rest is history. Other things being equal, and they probably aren't, the end of the bundle with the rubber band still reasonably intact would be restrained by the sand first. Then the lighter end, with the bills free to move both vertically and horizontally, would incur the most water damage. The water action that caused the "fanning" was counter-clockwise (as viewed from above) with respect to the rubber band end of the bundle. If the bundle was moving downstream in the Columbia when it lodged in the sand (see the disclaimer at the bottom of this post), then the bundle would be oriented with the rubber band end pointing toward the river, generally speaking, and the loose end pointing toward the shore. If the bundle was moving towards or into the Columbia from the shore when it lodged in the sand, then the rubber band end would be pointed upstream, general speaking again, and the loose end pointed downstream. In this case, the "fanning" action would require water moving into the river from the shore. DISCLAIMER: NOTHING IN THE ABOVE SUPPORTS THE WASHOUGAL WASHDOWN THEORY IN ANY (BLEEPED) WAY! Robert99Quote Ok. well... I didn't realise I had a flat-side-down hypothesis but my visualisation of the Ingram find is a stack (wad) of cash flat side down because Patricia (and others) have said when the sand was bushed away, at one point they could see remnants of rubber bands across the face of the bills still in the ground. This to me indicates flat side down. Brian described it to me this way: Brian moved aside and his father got down and dug a bit and pulled the first wad of cash up, then dug deeper and pulled a second wad up, and dug further and wider and pulled a smaller third wad up. They dug deeper and wider, then further out and around the find, but didn't find anything more. Galen Cook's witnesses who claim they found bills earlier in the same area but further downstream from the Ingram find, claim their parts of bills were basically on the surface to be recognisable as money, flat side up, and several bills in a recession one witnesses describes as a 'hole'. (I hope I have Galen's account correct ... if I dont he will email me and correct what Im saying). The one thing the Ingrams and others have remarked about, is that the bills were more-or-less cemented together (as a kind of block) and required pulling or soaking apart, after the fact. Given that fact it seems to me if bills slid or moved relative to each other that would have best occurred earlier in the money's history ... while it was still fresh. Maybe while still in the bag as the result of impact with the ground? Maybe in response to some force like pressure from water being applied from a particular direction. If the money bag impacted the earth one would expect evidence of shock. Maybe the torquing you cite is evidence of impact. I do know Tom examined his bills for evidence of extreme shock and I dont think he found anything of an obvious nature, that I recall. But, it is tempting to look for force-direction to try and identify a direction from which the Ingram money came. You are not the first person to raise this issue. Two agents raised this issue with Palmer following Palmer's report, because Palmer was assuming the money had arrived by flow, and he had made a comment about the edges of the bills being worn perhaps due to 'the bundles rolling down the river on the bottom of the river'... one agent questioned that rather strenously. Let me leave this here ... because I am sure this dscussion is not over. (I need to go out and check on a few things and stretch my legs).

Speaking of the WW theory, remember when Jerry Thomas recounted launching test packets in the Washougal? I think he said the results supported the washdown theory. 377 Quote He broke this 'after' Tom's tests ... to kind of tweek everyone. Is it true? Who knows. It's irrelevant if there is no demonstration or documentation of a previous experiment. Things at T-Bar comes from somewhere (and everywhere?). I have asked until blue in the face where 'the bulk of things found on Tina Bar' come from ... and nobody could cite a specific (even general) source. Myt guess is Amazon who lived at Catapillar Island would say things on Tina Bar 'come from everywhere!'... and as far as I know she would be right. That leaves open the possibility that 'yes' things from the Washougal could (and maybe do) wind up on Tina Bar ... sometimes? So far as I know the USG or anyone else has ever run basic flow tests, to see where debris is coming from or going? If they have I would love to see the data. And I have a very specific reason for wanting to see such data. Such data could be fed into a probability model. And I have a Russian probability modeler here who would love to run a few computer simulations. I asked him if he would be willing at the outset of the formation of the science team and he was willing back then - and he's still here slaving away ... I think R99 would like to see some flow test data! Some 'real' flow test data! Not just stories dropped out of nowhere that made Ckret even blush. We've been down this road with JT before and it's always a dead end. Nuff said.

Speaking of the WW theory, remember when Jerry Thomas recounted launching test packets in the Washougal? I think he said the results supported the washdown theory. 377 JT also told me a few years ago that one of the chase aircraft had a visual sighting of the airliner as it crossed the Columbia River far, far on the east side of Portland. Unfortunately, the chase pilots apparently don't remember that. All available information is that the chase pilots (the T-33 and the F-106s), plus Himmelsbach in his helicopter, headed for the southwest side of Portland. Even the so-called FBI flight path map (source actually unknown), gives a flight path on the west side of Portland for the airliner. On the WW theory, in my personal opinion, Tom Kaye has made a conclusive case for the WW theory being completely wrong. Robert99Quote Neither do any of the controllers remember it that way. JT says 305 crossed at near or over the Troutdale airport. Nobody remembers that happening. Nobody can confirm any of the specifics that would be required for a WW or a Troutdale route. And still, JT maintains this version. But JT is unable to provide anything that would substantiate his story. It's 'his' story and 'his' story' alone so far. JT says this all comes from Himmelsbach. We have been at this for years and there is literally nothing to substantiate anything JT is saying (H is saying). I agree from the info I have about the area the T33's were routed to, by R2. We discussed and shared info about this before -

That is to the path of least resistance. A little more information...... In February of 2008 the PCGS curreny people found 35 additional serial numbers within Ingram bundles. "This process revealed 35 additional full serial numbers that are on the FBI’s 1971 complete list of notes given as ransom, but apparently were not recorded when the notes discovered by Mr. Ingram in 1980 subsequently were inventoried by investigators. We are pleased to provide the FBI with these ‘new’ numbers with the hope that any new evidence may provide useful leads in this case." http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ A few months later in June of 2008 PCGS says "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker" after the 35 additional serial numbers were discovered a few months earlier. http://www.coinnews.net/2008/06/13/db-cooper-notes-make-37k-at-heritages-americana-memorabilia-auction/ So it seems unclear to the PCGS currency people if Ingram found exactly $5,800 dollars.Quote ... and there is no way to know where the 3 bills TK examined fit into the Ingram bundles...

Quote See you at the Lazy-Z Reunion in November. Thats: Lazy Z Mh Park 1004 NE 72ND ST Vancouver WA 98665 in case you get lost. Say hello to Vern and the boys.

Thats the simplest explanation, but how did the bundles get to Tena Bar? I cant reconcile that location with what I believe was the 727's flight path. That money find drives me crazy. I just can't see it getting from the plane to that beach with no human intervention. TK did a pretty careful review of the flight plan data and so did Sluggo. The placard find seems to correlate with their conclusions about the fight path, but it's just one point and the placard has never been conclusively tied to that particular airplane... although its highly likely that it came from she NORJACK plane. Everything was just fine until Brian messed things up with that money find. 377 I don't disagree with any of that. How far and how hard of a hike is it from where Cooper is believed to have landed to Tena Bar? If Cooper made it close to there before falling victim to the elements or injuries from his jump, the money find is easier explained. No need for a plant, no need for a wash down theory. I'm not familiar with the area, so maybe this isn't feasible. But I don't buy the WW theory and I don't buy that the money was a plant. Not many options left. 377, If the proposed flight path doesn't satisfy you mentally, it apparently does so emotionally on some level despite your doubts. Can the FBI (or whoever prepared that famous map), TK, Sluggo, and yourself be wrong about the flight path? I doubt if you have yet arrived at the point where you can give an answer to that which you yourself can truly accept. So if you can't find Cooper in the area where he is supposed to be, then he will be in the area where he is not supposed to be. Of course, this requires some mental adjustments. Robert99Quote This is all pretty funny to me. Larry was flexible. Eng evidently has gone backwards to the orthodox view. Robert99 has done a spectacular analysis (imho) presented some splendid data to consider. I confess I think this is akk pretty funny. A guy named Copernicus is waiting in the wings ... thats what I sense! I admit Im slightly prejudiced in this matter ... Farlung spoiled me with sagas of a newer better way...

He doesnt know Georger. He knows few details about the NORJACK case as he was assigned to something else pretty important at the time. He did know some of the major players though and said that the agency and agents were trying very hard to solve the case. He also said Himmelsbach was a smart guy and I agree after having spoke to H in person. His knowledge of aviation is deep and seasoned having been a military and civilian pilot. Write a book about Cooper? No way. It is a money pit as I am sure Blevins and Gray will attest to. If I am going to give away money it will be to my favorite charities. I bought Max Gunther's book about DBC and found it amusing. Tons of errors but a good read. I found his musing about Cooper's motivations to be interesting. In a nutshell he says Cooper did the crime to prove his courage and masculinity. That could apply to any male jumper I guess. Those damned wingsuiters have made ordinary skydiving passe'. Nobody is impressed these days with freefalling from an airplane and landing on a DZ. Unless you skim granite and half your buddies have been shredded in wingsuits you are a wimp. I'm just not brave enough to do become a BASE wingsuiter. I'll just have to reminisce about the glory days when plain old skydiving impressed whuffo women. 377 Quote So ask your friend to use the 'network' (or allow you to) and ask a few of his fellow retired agents who were on the case exactly what the approach to NWA employees was, after the jacking. And who was interviewed and who was not, by whom, etc etc. And the same for the investigation at Vancouver/Portland ? There is a treasure trove of information there! Later ... You arent the only one with a Cooper bill, sir!

Okay. Georger here are the facts again as shown in Tom Kaye's money analysis which is available on his web page. The money in Tom Kaye's illustration was clearly constrained only on one end when found. It may have had two or more rubber bands on it when delivered to Cooper but all the bands either moved to one end of the bundle or else the other bands disappeared and only one band on one end of the bundle was holding it together when it was finally covered by sand. Assuming that the Georger Hypothesis (that the bills were found flat side down) is correct, then the "fanning" of the bills took place while the bottom of the bundle was constrained by the sand and the top of the bundle was exposed to moving water. The "fanning" and removal of portions of the top bills in the bundle would require some time, perhaps two or three weeks. When the bundle was completely covered by sand, the "fanning" would stop. Then quite a bit of time passes, the Ingrams decide to dig a fire pit, and the rest is history. Other things being equal, and they probably aren't, the end of the bundle with the rubber band still reasonably intact would be restrained by the sand first. Then the lighter end, with the bills free to move both vertically and horizontally, would incur the most water damage. The water action that caused the "fanning" was counter-clockwise (as viewed from above) with respect to the rubber band end of the bundle. If the bundle was moving downstream in the Columbia when it lodged in the sand (see the disclaimer at the bottom of this post), then the bundle would be oriented with the rubber band end pointing toward the river, generally speaking, and the loose end pointing toward the shore. If the bundle was moving towards or into the Columbia from the shore when it lodged in the sand, then the rubber band end would be pointed upstream, general speaking again, and the loose end pointed downstream. In this case, the "fanning" action would require water moving into the river from the shore. DISCLAIMER: NOTHING IN THE ABOVE SUPPORTS THE WASHOUGAL WASHDOWN THEORY IN ANY (BLEEPED) WAY! Robert99Quote Will read and get back tonight ... I knew this was coming.

Quote Yours are valid comments, I think. My point is: who were the actual central players in this man's life? The people closest to Kenny's heart and mind? Not the people he dug a ditch for or attended ocassional social functions with or had to travel to even see ... but the people he spent his real time with outside of his employment. The people in the "best" position to judge if Kenny could hijack an airplane, or talked about it, or was planning to do something like that, etc If Mac or some of these other people were to say: 'I never heard him talk about soing anything like that', wouldnt that carry some weight vs somebody else who knew Kenny on a more formal basis? Or at the very least, wouldnt Mac's statement have to be thrown in and given weight along with the statements of others? If you havent identified and interviewed the central players in a person's life, how can you make an evaluation of what the person was doing, thinking, and ... might have done? Then, can anyone put Kenny on the plane? That was Ckret's challenge. Now, if Kenny had worked in a titanium processing shop, was 6'2", had brown eyes and a dark complexion, etc ... then the FBI would be all over this ... and we would be 10-deep going over Kenny's actual network of associates with a fine toothed comb. One author has made the contention that the FBI did not investigate NWA employees. I have no idea how true or untrue that is. We have sat here three years and havn't even looked into that important contention. Maybe 377 should ask his FBi friend how true that assertion is, or if he knows anything about it? I sure would would like more information about that. The author used that 'contention' to pass Kenny through the filter of, Kenny not being noticed. If at the same time KC was not the selective 'loner' one author has described, but in fact had several important relationships with other NWA employees ... and they all escaped FBI questioning ... then could not one of those NWA employees have been DB Cooper, or know something about who might have been? Kenny being gay might lead to another NWA employee who was gay, who might have been DB Cooper? Someone whose father worked in a metal processing factory? The gay element is only a means to an investigative end. (Keep in mind Cooper said specifically 'he did not have a grudge against the airline'.)

Here is what Grey wrote: "To prepare for a robbery, Seattle First National has set aside a cache of bills and each serial number of each bill has been recorded on microfiche. They count out a hundred stacks of twenty-dollar bills, each stack worth $2,000. The load must weigh twenty pounds, maybe more." "Inside the airport, the bank officials from Seattle First National bank lug the ransom into the Northwest flight operations office. The bank officials cut open a seal of the leather satchel and hand FBI boss J. Earl Milnes the Canvas bag inside, Its dimension are roughly a foot by a foot, and eight or nine inches tall. Milnes looks at the money. He does not count it. He hands the bag to Al Lee, Northwest's director of flying." "Al Lee scurries out of the detective's car and around the trunk. He opens it. He grabs the canvas sack of money and waits for Tina in the rain" 1) The above suggest the stacks were bundled with rubberbands equally by bank personnel who know how to count stacks of money. Even when rushed. 2) The serial numbers were already on microfiche (recorded by the bank). The FBI serial number list looks like it was reproduced from microfiche 3) The FBI Boss did a quick look-see at money, that was the extent of the FBI dealings with the money. Two of the three bundles found by Ingram had 2000 dollars with one bundle missing 10 bills that were either lost to the enviroment or removed by someone. That is to the path of least resistance. Quote Two or three bands per bundle ... which will make R99 happy (pivot-torque-force-direction.. fanning theory)! [

Quote You and your friend could write a book. In fact, that's not a bad idea. There are so many good books that could be written in this area. In another 20 years so many principles will pass away there wont be many left who have a first hand story to tell.

I have never made any such statement in my life! Why would I? What has Kenny's sexuality got to do with hijacking? Show me where I made such comments? There is a very high correlation between AIDS (auto immune disorder) and a number of cancers, in case you don't know. Some types of cancer occur so often in people with AIDS that they are considered AIDS-defining conditions. Such a high percentage of people with full blown AIDS die of cancer, AIDS itself is often confused with being cancer. So let me rephrase this to avoid your hedging: Did Kenny have AIDS when he died of cancer? My guess is you don't know and have never seen Kenny's medical records, but will continue peddling cancer in any event? Likewise, you avoided answering the question about fellow NWA employees Kenny did have relationships with. Did any of them die and had AIDS? Now, I did say the above. You can quote me! Kenny's death certificate says he died of cancer. To answer your other questions, 'no,' 'no,' and 'none known'. You say this: Your post alone shows you are engaging in homophobia. Big time. I don't have to go back to your previous posts. Your present post above speaks for itself. Anything else, you'll have to talk to his doctor. Nothing you've posted addresses a thing Kenny may have been doing on 11/24/1971, but only when he died in 1994.Quote How does my merely stating the factual connection between cancer(s) and AIDS make me "homophobic"? If I say F = MA is that homophobic too? If I ask: "Did Kenny have relationships with fellow NWA employees off the job, and did any of them die of cancer or AIDS" ... is merely asking that homophobic? The relationship of this to the hijacking YOU allege Kenny did is automatic in so far as we need to know Kenny's network of real-life relationships. You have defined one set of relationships including Geestman you claim served the purpose of doing the Cooper hijacking. If there are other relationships in Kenny's life you have failed to explore or give proper meaning to, could not some of those relationships have also been part of the hijacking conspiracy you claim Kenny (and Geestman) put together, which others Kenny knew could confirm (you say), if they only would confirm it to you. If I called them up and they confirmed it to ME and not YOU, would that make me homophobic, according to you? The question is simple: Have you covered 'all' of the primary relationships Kenny C. had? Some of which may be fellow NWA employees, who happened to die of AIDS? Is your "formula" correct? What is homphobic of me about asking about that!? Are you saying I am homophobic simply because I think? BTW: was Kenny in a registry of people with AIDS or sexually transmitted diseases? You've never mentioned anything about that, presumably because I guess you dont think HIV and Kenny's cancer is related, or perhaps his was just cancer and nothing else. The problem is, you havent documented anything! And in the meantime your exercise tonight labeling me a Homophobic, shows you are free to label others, while the rest of us are prohibited! That is a special privelege only you enjoy here!

Regarding Georger's questions on how KC died and his sexuality: I don't recall ever denying that Kenny was gay. And you knew when you asked that Kenny did not die of AIDS. I DO recall your comments about his sexuality where you try to use it like a stick to 'prove' Kenny couldn't have been the hijacker. I merely downplayed his sexuality, because it isn't proof of anything Cooper one way or another. Everyone knows Kenny died of cancer in 1994. This may have been brought on by his stay on Bikini Atoll during the nuke testing that was going on there back then. After college, and before Shemya and NWA, he took a job down there as a radio operator for a while.Quote [I DO recall your comments about his sexuality where you try to use it like a stick to 'prove' Kenny couldn't have been the hijacker.] I have never made any such statement in my life! Why would I? What has Kenny's sexuality got to do with hijacking? Show me where I made such comments? There is a very high correlation between AIDS (auto immune disorder) and a number of cancers, in case you don't know. Some types of cancer occur so often in people with AIDS that they are considered AIDS-defining conditions. Such a high percentage of people with full blown AIDS die of cancer, AIDS itself is often confused with being cancer. So let me rephrase this to avoid your hedging: Did Kenny have AIDS when he died of cancer? My guess is you don't know and have never seen Kenny's medical records, but will continue peddling cancer in any event? Likewise, you avoided answering the question about fellow NWA employees Kenny did have relationships with. Did any of them die and had AIDS? Now, I did say the above. You can quote me!

It's interesting, out of the 3 Bundles found by Ingram, 200 dollars was missing (ten 20 dollar bills) AND all of the 20's were missing from one bundle. Would you mind to disclose the serial number on your 20?[/quote Didn't Gray say in his book that the bundles were not all exact and that some had more than others to give the appearance that it was quickly put together? I read that somewhere, I think it was Grays book. Not sure about Gray but Ckret said that. And no bundle had consecutive serial numbers as Geivette (sp?) says. It was a rushed job ... Ckret said. I went back a few weeks ago and read some of the original forum that got locked. I guess that's where I read it.Quote I know Ckret explained how the money was processed, recorded, then bundled, but Im not sure in what thread. Just do a search and see if something comes up. One anecdote came up during the Kaye work. Somebody surfaced and suggested there never had been bands on the bundles but paper straps ... this sent Ckret scurrying. Ckret contacted Brian, I contacted Brian, Brian contacted his mother etc etc ... Brian's mother confirmed 'yes' it was bands on the money not paper straps, and then a bank official confirmed 'bands and not straps' ... but it had us going in circles for a few days all based on Ckret's original certification it was bands and not paper straps, not to mention FBI documents which stated "bands" and said nothing about straps. Such is the life of the lowly researcher ... anything can come up.

377 Quote Did KC die of AIDS? What NWA employees did he have relationships with? What NWA employees that Kenny knew or had a relationship with, died of AIDS? Anyone know?