snowmman

is Amazon a woman? is that what the name reference is! Woot!

Jerry opined to Amazon "You will have advantage's over Cooper you will have prior knowledge of the area and alot of survival and jump experience. but nothing else" Hey fuck Amazon and Cooper...this is all about me (remember we started with you blindfolding me and leading me into the woods at night and me taking the blindfold off and committing suicide) How did we get from that to your perception of what Cooper knew or didn't know? Or what Amazon knows?

Jerry the truck driver said "I have trouble geting my rig upin some of those area's. And my rig is small. It's a 07 Ford dualy 450 4wd Diesel crew cab" If a Ford can't get there, there's no way a human on two legs could.

Jerry the business executive said "Tell me when did weirheiser buy the Indian Heaven area. Jerry " About as interesting as discussing whether ability to be shot at is a necessary skill for hijacking planes.

Jerry tried to claim "Flight path was pointed out by Rat as being to the east of v23 and over the troutdale Airport. " Bruce Thomas interviewed Rat recently and posted the interview. Go back and review it. Your claim seems weak here Jerry.

I was thinking how this is like the Survivor TV show. You got the old military guy with his myopic thinking, thinking it's all about what happens when you start on the ground, as if you just woke up without a clue. But at that point, it's all preordained by whatever happened before. The game starts now. I will outwit, and outplay, everyone. See, that's why Jerry is a dumbass, displaying the faults of classic old-school military training. He assumes his opponent is as dumb as he is. (note) I will guarantee I will lie to you guys about what happened when I come back. De facto, the reality will only be defined by what you guys are able to verify or perceive. Remember: I don't give a shit about any of you guys.

Jo said "The above is considered copyright even in a public media...because it is not fiction. but the truth as only Jo Weber knows it." If you want to hear more of this amazing story, send contributions to duaneweber@paypal.com Your generosity has been overwhelming and the schoolkids who watch us cash the checks wish they got some of it. We guarantee no money raised is given to Jo Weber, but we also guarantee that your contributions will keep the truth being told. Thank you for your support.

amazon said "I usually feel very comfortable in the woods.. no matter where I am. " Modern gear (I mentioned goretex) is like having a space suit. You can go almost anywhere on the planet comfortably. A big stepping stone is when you spend an unplanned night out, and find it's no big deal, other than feeling cold and stiff in the morning, and realizing that no matter how miserable the night was, things look a lot better when the sun comes up!

Hey that's funny to ponder. We talked a bit about random possibilities of why 11/25. No one mentioned a relation to hunting season. That would be really funny if he knew about that.

I always feel nervous when I run into hunters in the woods. I know sometimes I'm in areas that are stupid to be in, because you can hear shooting, and I'll have my dogs. It's always odd when you surprise someone, because they look surprised you're not a deer..then you realize you're lucky you didn't get shot, or you dogs get shot..and then when you see he's a bit of a city slicker with new gear, you feel really lucky...and what do you say when you're in the middle of the woods and the other guy has a weapon and maybe almost shot you? Hi? Bye? Let's see I remember running into a kid laying behind a log one time. He was poaching deer out of season. Awkward. Another time my dogs were barking ahead of me on the trail behind a cabin I had. I get up there, and a bow hunter's up on a stump. I'm like "what are you doing here" and he's like "what are you doing here? I thought this was a game trail" (i had cut a trail to walk the dogs) And then there was the stupid time in Wyoming I was visiting and went to a park where they just had griz sightings and I was being really stupid with my dog and the trail petered out and I thought for sure every time my dog came running back he'd have a griz in pursuit. Someone shot a griz there that week saying it was around their camp or something. They got in trouble. But then Alaska with their brown bear stories, like Jerry says. Never been where they roam, but reading some of the stories is scarier than I expected. So yeah, I can be stupid in the woods. (most states have laws letting hunters shoot dogs they say were running deer...So I always worry about that excuse)

Why didn't the guy who found the placard die when he went into the death woods? I guess he had a truck, but that would mean there was a road, minimally dirt. I guess he walked some distance. How far do elk hunters walk? My understanding is they usually make it back to a camp by night, and the camp is near where they can park a truck. So how many miles out do the elk hunters walk from their trucks? Why do they survive? Is it the boots? In November what kind of clothing would you wear if were walking a couple miles in the woods? What happens to an elk hunter if he breaks a shoelace on his boots? Or if he falls and hurts his leg? Does he die? Do elk hunters ever make it back alive after injury in the death woods or do they commit suicide or do rescue parties find them?

Hey amazon, It's nice to have someone who actually has walked the woods there. So far we've not had someone. Jerry's been passing himself off as someone who's "walked the land" but he's walked like nowhere except some secret search spots around the washougal. interesting you're an elk hunter like the guy who found the placard. I knew there was elk like in Montana. Didn't realize there were any in WA. Do people still hunt elk there?

The Bohan flight path, winds at 166* on my nose ? 4 mins behind and 4000ft above #305. ????? draw it on a google earth snapshot (or google maps).... you can photoshop. Put some rough times for spots. The problem has been aligning to stuff happening in the comms in the transcripts right? If you can show a scenario that makes sense, sure.. the problem is: Himmelsbach never bothered with this level of detail. He just spouted (like Jerry)

Amazon. You don't want to invite Jo anywhere. If you need to invite, invite Orange1.

that isnt far off Jerry's estimate either, I think. Jerry? Remember your last search area? Vector NE from there?? So long as we wind up coming in over Troutdale (Jerry's requirement). Is this possible? If someone draws a flight path that shows the plane's potential path going over Troutdale and show how it gets back onto V23 and when, then we can discuss, The problem is this Troutdale stuff is bullshit. No one has drawn a potential flight path so we can all agree on whether it makes any sense. Jerry won't draw a flight path because it's bullshit. Might as well jump in Texas. (edit) Or: Is the goal to see if anyone can jump near Troutdale and survive?

One of the KOIN segments on DBC over on youtube.com said the pilot thinks his flight path was farther east....ok I can live with that.. that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done. yeah, you've missed the whole flight path discussion. We've gone over that a lot. I'll leave it to others to explain what they think is a reasonable flight path zone and why (and how it correlates with all available info or not) You should get an overlay (kml) in google earth to look at the flight path. Sluggo has it. I can post it if he doesn't. (edit) I attached a kml that is from Sluggo's work. it has the v23 and the probable 305 flight path from radar with times (there is a potential minute error issue). The money find is located there also. (for amazon since he's not seen this before..) It sounds like you have google earth on your pc. Just open the 305.kml and zoom in. (the blue line is flight path. green is v23. they look intermittent because I put them at low altitude, so they cut thru land sometimes. I was trying flybys in GE or something.

amazon said "The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work ." That doesn't fucking matter. I think Cooper landed in the Columbia. This is about whether Jerry is a dumbass like I said, and apparently you guys deciding whether I have balls enough to post here. If you can dig up any evidence other than what we have, that suggests a legitimate alternate flight path, I guess that's on the table, but we'd have to discuss it for probability or just bullshit random guessing?

I'm assuming any borrowed gear I get, I don't have to return. I may leave some behind or take some with me. Unless it's summer, I'll likely take the chute or some portion of it to stay dry at night or during heavy rain. I'll probably cut the lines. The harness will probably get dumped. I'm assuming you guys will give me a rig that's sized to fit me correctly? Like I said, I'm tall. (I know this is a combination of testing my initial "getting out" statement and "do I have balls enough to post on a DBC thread at DZ.com with a bunch of old fat farts". So you get to decide I guess) I get a knife because DBC had one. (right? We all agree he cut the lines on the plane with a knife?) If you want to give me Raleighs for effect, that would be cool. I'm picturing crawling into a ride on I-5, and when they ask for my story, launching into a description of how I jumped out of a plane I hijacked, two days ago, and here's $500 if you get me to a Starbucks in Portland so I can post to DZ.com and win the charms of a certain South African lass.

Okay, I'm reviewing maps to plan my way out. I'm assuming the jump is going to be somewhat close to Flight 305's flight path? If so, it appears that my safest bet, assuming I don't know where I am, but that I know it's somewhere between the placard find and Vancouver, is to always just go W, no matter what. It looks to me like that is a max of 12 miles to go. Assuming it's really dense, but water is probably not a problem in Fall conditions, let's say I can go 6 miles a day. So two days travel. Assuming we jump at night, that's two overnights. Will have to keep an eye out for food and water. The 2nd night might be a little grim. Once I hit I-5, it's no problem hitching a ride. So we're just talking 12 miles of overland travel. Am I wrong on the plan yet? 12 miles is possible in a long day sure, but not good to plan on that. I'm assuming I can hide a compass in my pocket? And I don't have limitations on matches right? (cooper=smoker). What about the flares? Do I get to keep them? I think so? If we agree the jump is between Lake Merwin and Vancouver, it'll probably be easier to sight for the Lewis River, Lake Merwin or something like that. I suppose it should be easy to see Mt. St. Helens, so I'll be able to make some dynamic decisions about where I probably am. I'm trying to limit how much map memorization i need to do? Or: Can I keep a map in my pocket? My memory isn't so great anymore, and I think that fits within Cooper-legal? (if it fits in my pocket). If you say no, I'll just hide a small one.

I happened to find this, which was news to me. We debated whether the placard came from flight 305. This news article quotes a Cowlitz County Sheriff as saying they knew two days after the hijack, that flight 305's placard was missing. That's what is news to me. We never had confirmation of that? (edit) Surprisingly, the FBI says the area where the placard was found was searched twice beforehand, by the FBI and no further searches were planned. I didn't realize they searched up there. Maybe just by plane? (edit) note it shows how the FBI searches really couldn't find anything small, since they missed it. I'm not sure this gives us any new info. The timeline suggests the airstairs may have been down before 8:05 (if that's where the plane was when the placard was found) It's hard to believe the stairs stayed down in the airflow, so I guess we've debated this before, but it got me thinking the idea of Cooper walking the stair multiple times may have been true. (assuming you need full open stairs to get the airflow to grab the placard out of it's holder?) Oh since I'm here. a couple other clips. One, a detailed description of the Rainey "pilot chute" find, with a better picture. (dismissed by Cossey). Also, a tragic, fall in water, recovered after hours in water, fall in water again, and not found? (apparent owner of a ship). 377 will identify with the tragedy of this one. I doubt Jerry will say to jump at the placard location, unless he has a new money travel theory. My understanding is Cooper jumped in the Washougal because that's the only way the money could have arrived on Tena Bar. And since the Washougal is inpenetrable, Cooper couldn't escape. And because of those two things, that's how we know Flight 305 flew over the Washougal. (independent of any other information) (edit) Did I post the thing about the 727 pilot flying Arrow Air when a 727 airstair deployed in flight (they had to go down to 10k feet, open the rear door and tie a lever up to land, to avoid the airstair dropping and getting damaged on landing). He talked about initial airframe vibration, then that went away. But still the climb rate was limited, and increased fuel burn (they had to change their landing plans).

Amazon pointed out Amazon: the thing I don't understand about what Jerrry says: He takes journalists and walks to an area. He points to stuff. He says "Cooper couldn't escape from here". Then they walk out. How does that add up? (edit) I've also never seen "woods", no matter how dense, that doesn't have some sort of game trail somewhere, or opening..i.e. if animals can get thru somehow, humans can. Unless we're talking like traversing across the grand canyon? (edit) 377 said: "Maybe we should have Snow jump in a neoprene survival suit so he can survive a cold water landing, but he has to shed it immediately if he lands on terra firma. I like Snow. I don't want to see him hurt or killed proving a point. I have a survival suit, a LPU, a 121.5 MHz rescue beacon and an APRS position and physio telemetry beacon that I can loan Snow. " 377, assuming one doesn't land in water, and you are well hydrated and fed, a thin one piece gortex suit is almost like a survival suit. It's amazing how little insulation you need if your body is burning calories cause you're moving. See that's why the clothing issue is critical. I'd cheat and get a raincoat or whatever with a hidden layer of goretex, unless you caught me. Remember, I have no honor here in the game. Cheat to win.

okay, I've never walked naked in the woods (that I can remember?) , so I went for a hike in steep mid-dense woods with no pants or shoes on. The ground was steepish. (50 degrees in places?) Wet from recent rains. I slipped on wet clay/mud a little till I got the hang of using toes. Tree canopy was 100' or more. Contrary to my expectations, there was no worry about puncture injuries on my soles. Normal branches, sticks etc from tree litter on the ground (no trail). I could navigate steep terrain pretty easily by digging my toes into the duff. It actually felt pretty cool..like going native. My legs weren't cold. Picture a stiff hike in shorts. (edit) Looks like temps were in the mid to low 40's. But, the wet ground does chill your feet pretty quickly. I could stop and warm them with my hands, which worked fine, but you'd really need a covering to make any significant progress. You can actually walk fine as your feet go numb, but you stop because you know it's bad. (but little toes are still numb as I type this. My circulation isn't as good as in younger years, I think?) Like you'd have to tear up some clothes to bind your feet. i.e. better to keep your feet warm than elsewhere. So, I'd have to play the "ankle boot" description card. Cooper was described as wearing ankle boots. (I'm assuming "ankle" boots would be the only way to guarantee shoes on the ground?) I think the barefoot requirement is too extreme. Well, basically it's pretty predictable results, so why bother? I'm not sure which we're more interested in proving out: the forest navigation from semi-unknown point thing, the barefoot thing, or whether I have enough balls to jump from a Cessna like a couple thousand random yahoos off the street with a couple hundred bucks do every year. (edit) I've walked in pretty thick wood with sandals. So the real issue is just a barrier between you and the wet ground. Not traction. (edit) I took some pictures of my feet, in the duff, if interested, but it was getting dark.

Hey! I just realized. I'm the dumbass here. So that means: Cooper jumped in the woods and died. How was it again that we know he jumped in the woods? I forgot.

Hi Amazon, Like I said, I'm sure you're all that, and congratulations. But in terms of instructing, it sounds like you need some introspection about swooping, if you're instructing beginners. I wouldn't want you as an instructor. I suppose others might.

Amazon said "When we have deaths.. most of the time its because somebody did not execute properly on some aspect of keeoping their asses alive." Yes I may be wrong. Remember my only exposure has been this thread. So I say what I think, if I'm wrong, people correct it. Nice thing about the internet..one can learn from people you normally wouldn't come into contact with. But you threw out swooping on your DZ mention (see your post) Why the fuck did you mention swooping? See my point? You do it without even realizing. So you're saying the only problem with swooping deaths is people didn't execute properly? (edit) The other thing I believe exists, is that the social behavior leads to people not talking about stuff directly, which also causes deaths...i.e. all this bullshit stuff you guys drum on about, causes people to lose focus on the nuts and bolts..i.e. think it's about balls, as opposed to just getting the canopy open and landing on the ground.