snowmman

I thought we were talking about the tower on Larch Mtn. Weren't those pictures I posted cool? I thought it was pretty cool the 1940's engineering drawings were online. Amazing what those guys did with just bolted steel plates and timber.

Skydivers are right. Whuffos are losers. We prove it every day! (edit) In my defense, all I said was towers don't need special painting or lights till 200' above ground. (at least, as far as FCC+FAA goes, outside of protected airspace..local building codes may differ though, as I noted). This includes commercial use. Georger was the one who brought his family relationships into the picture. I have no idea what he's done with his family, nor do I expect him to expose the prurient details on the interweb. (edit) Georger if you have a reference for commercial use requiring lights below 200' above ground, why not just post it? I'm not sure what the lights requirements are for grain elevators either. That might be interesting? I wanted to show I knew something about towers. Georger wanted to show I was wrong. Georger was wrong. Pretty simple. (edit) I looked at the specific FAA and FCC stuff. Interestingly the FAA does leave themselves an out ..see below. (it has nothing to do with commercial or non-commerical..they say depending on location, which seems pretty open-ended...Since they're not required to be notified for

So georger, let me get this straight. You're saying that Duane Weber wasn't Cooper?

Hi Dumbass. The story of your life. You do nothing, but you know people who have done something. Like your Tosaw shit. I can talk about towers. I have two 80' towers (including mast) and just poured the base for another 60'-er. So I can't talk about towers unless I know someone who knows someone who put up a 100' tower? You know the problem with the internet Georger? Look in the mirror. Your towers are hobby towers. Guy up the road from me has 12 towers - antenna farm. So? What's ur point, Pudknocker? Im talking about commercial grade towers but screw towers - buildings are what matters. Ever seen some of the large grain elevators in Nebraska? I could put all of your fucking towers in one silo. and you too! I've only run into a few midwesterners. You're the first I've heard that brags about grain elevators. Congratulations! I think 'petard' is the word you should be eating. (edit) I must have misread your post. So your 'family' put up some kind of commercial tower? What for? (edit) It's funny how I post about how you like to post about what other people do, that you know...and then you post about the guy up the road from you! too funny.

Hi Dumbass. The story of your life. You do nothing, but you know people who have done something. Like your Tosaw shit. I can talk about towers. I have two 80' towers (including mast) and just poured the base for another 60'-er. So I can't talk about towers unless I know someone who knows someone who put up a 100' tower? You know the problem with the internet Georger? Look in the mirror.

"For 'tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his owne petar" Cooper was an ADD engineer. This may have relevance.

Exactly. So they would be hard to see from above at 10k feet? I almost posted about this but Im golad I didnt. You have the facts and facts are what counts - Great Job. This could account for why Sluggo has never seen/ noticed these tower lights from the air? Now if Duane was as SMART and INFORMED AS jO CLAIMS HE WAS, WHY DIDNT HE KNOW THIS? Once again Jo is trapped by her own petard. What friggin tower lights are people talking about? Has anyone posted a picture of a tower with lights along the path we're discussing? Is someone saying there were lights on the Larch Mtn towers? I'm not even sure the current 43M (141 ft) towers have lights? Do they? (edit) OH! I get it..You two guys are still talking about Jo Weber. Yes of course Duane Weber was Cooper after all. It's so funny, you guys love Jo Weber.

all theoretical - just try erecting a tower 100ft or higher and see what happens! Do you consult and rely on the Internet to buy Charmin? Hi Georger, your post is a good example of a dumbass. So you're telling me you've erected 100' towers? 25g guyed I expect? Let's hear the details. Another reference for the dumbass known as Georger. http://books.google.com/books?id=EcbjKvhgPLsC&pg=PT56&lpg=PT56&dq=arrl+200%27+tower&source=bl&ots=0H-EP5uVJl&sig=i0dmtmAFkHWIm3tkLJ8Zr49B7Fo&hl=en&ei=-n1BS6vHDoLosQPiopTBBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Nice day photo, you can see the trees well not sure of the year. maybe 2008, so wouldn't be from a tower? from http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2880636350011412446hBEzTQ Duane Weber could tell you everything about this area, sing you a song, buy a drink, and .. (edit) interestingly, this may be in the same direction as the night sky photo above. It may be the most scenic direction? (i'm looking at the two volcanos for orientation. and probable city lights)

I posted the engineering drawings for the 1940 tower. Here is more detail. It remained until 1976 there was another tower from 1915-1923 Beautiful photos of both attached, and the 1940's tower in 1964 You can see the 1945 picture matches the engineering drawings (the cabin on top was not in the engineering drawings, although I suspect that was a standard design, and might be on the site I posted) The 1915 tower built on trees is freaking amazing! from http://www.firelookout.com/or/larchmtn.html LARCH MOUNTAIN LOOKOUT R.I.P. 1915-1923; 1940's-1976 Established in 1914 with a platform and cab atop two 90' fir trees, a 90' steel tower and a ground house replaced it in 1923. In the 1940's, a 100' treated timber L-4 tower was built with a tourist observation deck below the cab. The structure was removed in 1976. Apparently when it was removed, one of the workers found a twenty dollar bill stuffed in a timber joint (between the steel plate and wood).

(edit) using the lat/long attached a sat photo (overhead) of the tower from 2005. There is a shadow, so you can guess the height Looks like two towers (confirming the snow picture above?) Current Larch Mountain tower might only be 43M tall? might not need lights? (

from http://www.flickr.com/photos/victorvonsalza/3955676122/ nice photo. Even georger will appreciate the stars city lights seem relatively close.

Jo will like this. This is a picture of Duane working near a side camp near Larch Mountain around 1942. from http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ohq/107.4/davis.html COs at Camp 21 line up to be loaded onto trucks and transported to their work for the Forest Service. Other Camp 21 COs worked from a side camp on Larch Mountain. Lewis & Clark College Special Collections, Blocher D62 It was common to wear black ties and white shirts while using a shovel then. See photo.

4.5 Mbytes but kind of fun. The actual engineering drawings used to build the 1940 tower there (bolted timbers) http://www.fs.fed.us/database/acad/lt/LT_MTHOOD_Larch_MTN_Lookout_Tower_1940.pdf looks like it was 100' tall? pretty impressive back then.

Well now we have some useful posts! 1) Here's a photo of Larch Mountain taken from Washougal in 2003 a bunch more nice pictures (probably used some serious lens action since they look way too close?) 2) View of the Columbia River Valley and Mount Adams from Larch Mountain, Oregon. Image taken October 11, 2004. 3) Mount Rainier, Washington, from Larch Mountain, Oregon. Image taken October 11, 2004. 4) Mount St. Helens, Washington, from Larch Mountain, Oregon. Steam and ash are visible from the crater and drifting east. Image taken October 11, 2004. 5) Mount Adams, Washington, from Larch Mountain, Oregon. Image taken October 11, 2004. 6) Mount Hood, Oregon, from Larch Mountain, Oregon. Image taken August 3, 2008 7) Mount Jefferson, Oregon, from Larch Mountain, Oregon. Image taken October 11, 2004.

Farflung said "In order for a tower to obtain a permit for construction they must get approval from the FAA and validate the structure will not be a hazard to flight prior to construction." If you're not in the protected airspace around a airport or heliport, you can go to 200' above ground without painting or lights. (at least currently) You don't need to get approval from FAA for all towers. FAA doesn't have jurisdiction over radio towers (in US). FCC does. FCC requires FAA notification for towers over 200' or in the protected airspace. Local jurisdictions have various building codes or permit systems that may come into play. (edit) some details for close to airports (as of 2002) http://copyrightroyalties.com/TT0502.pdf

You're the primary user. Blah blah blah blah blah I love it when people use something [internet] to complain about something [internet] It's the classic old fart complaint. Everything is broken! It was better in my day! Anything new is worse and I know because XYZ! If the internet is broke, georger, stop using it. Your automobile, and airplanes, are more broke than the internet. Or the US economy! Actually, the problem is that the US doesn't matter for the internet. That's probably your real complaint. You quoted stats for the areas that don't matter. (why did you pick those stats? Why not other stats?)

OK. Larch Mountain (~3.4K foot) had antenna tower on it in 1980, and the tower had lights. I climbed it at the time to add an antenna while working for Vel Communications in Vancouver. IIRC, the Clark County SO repeaters were located there. It's ~10 miles E of Orchards. Flash Earth view: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.716972&lon=-122.295694&z=15&r=0&src=ggl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larch_Mountain_(Clark_County,_Washington) What has this got to do with Dan Cooper?

Georger intoned "The Internet as you describe it wont even be here in another ten years, ..... or less! And corporations and advertisers are spending billions/trillions accomodating to that fact, as I write. " I'm supposed to care about industry and advertisers? why? Be nice if they fail. Change is good. Problem is: They won't fail! So you're wrong Georger. The thing to worry about, is loss of individualism..i.e. globalization. Declare war! (edit) What you're really worried about is the lower value of self-perceived experts. Experts were never really as expert as they told us they were. That's the problem! What is an individual's value add? What is georger's value add? (edit) Let's talk about clicking on paid Google links. Has anyone? Has it been worth it to you? (edit) every year of the Internet is better. The problem is: it's not your definition of better! (I'm not sure what yours would be)

georger worriedly posted "So what "internet" is it you are torking about? " Twitter. It's a rough draft for rumors. Short attention span theatre. You're in love with rational discourse?

This thread works on a number of delightful levels. One is that it's a skydiving forum, and there's a historical cultural thing about skydivers making fun of non-skydivers. But within this thread, skydivers have been woefully inadequate at pulling that off. Sure, you can go snicker elsewhere, but you know in your heart that doesn't accomplish the intended goal. Because this thread continues. Beautiful. All attempts at control are thwarted. The inherent beauty of the Internet. (and successful guerrilla campaigns)

Jo mentioned something about towers and maps. That reminds me. Didn't Duane say something about towers? Was Duane Weber Dan Cooper?

Labrys contributed more in 30 seconds than Snow and Jo combined in more than a decade. I guess Labrys won.

An you my friend are Nuttier than a Fruitcake. P.S. Emory cloths where used yrs ago by criminals to smooth off their prints making them more difficult for law enforcement to lift them or read them....I never really knew how this might help a criminal. Duane was the one who told me about how criminals used emory cloth. A cloth that somehow incorporates fine gritty grains of something (asbestos, glass, sand or whatever). Welcome to the USA! There's a reason we will win! We understand emery cloth. ("e" Jo. E!) Unbelievers: don't! They don't even have any! And Duane said "Let there be emery cloth." And there was. And it was good. And all surfaces were smooth thereafter. But one day, a prophet said "Why must all surfaces be smooth?" (edit) I love the practice of saying "my friend" before an attempt at an insult. My penultimate friend of all friends.