Ron

You pilots license when you were 17 helped. Most don't have 50 hours when they are 16. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Jumpers not getting killed will benefit all of us. Not if you don't let them....I don't see many folks pull low at Zhills. I would not make a dime..And I would ahve gladly signed the letter...What about me? You very easy to see beef is with the greenies. No, it would be unfair to make folks buy a new canopy...So theonly fair way to do it is just like they did when they raised the legal drinking age....If you were able to drink when it came into law...then you still could. So there is a precident. Instead of just bitching which is easy...Why don't you shut up, and do something positive. In the battle of life it is not the critic who counts...Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or how the doer of deads could have done better. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most AFF programs don't teach packing till later if at all. I know several folks that graduated AFF that never learned to pack. I tought ALL my S/L students to pack. Some as part of the FJC. Both can, but few DO. In SL you have one pass per student, and they are sitting in the door, so it is very easy to teach them to spot. In Big AFF schools they are in the back of the plane, and can't see the door. You really can't teach them to spot, and the pilot will not go around so you can't really teach them to spot. And the pilot will not take corrections anyway. On SL I can have the pilot fly whatever jump run I want, or the student asks for. Try that in an otter/KA at 12,500 feet with loads waiting on the ground. SL has more canopy control jumps under supervision of the JM or I....What is killing more skydivers Freefall, or canopy control issues? So, in my experience: While AFF teaches freefall FASTER. (In SL the jump master starts jumping with you after your 10 second delay). So AFF teaches it FASTER, not better. I would put one of my SL students against any AFF student when they both have 30 jumps. The SL student will be better at canopy control since I have watched them for 15-20 jumps, not 7-10. The SL student will be able to pack without going to a "packing class". I teach them early and they pack the rig they are going to jump. I would put one of my SL students spotting abilities against any AFF students. And 99% of the time I would win. And my SL students will bail out at 3 grand much faster than an AFF student. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, got the jacket and then they sent me back to my unit the day before graduation. I was only in the Army 9 mths total by the end of tryouts and they felt I needed more Army time. Then I became a Diabetic (How the hell that happend I'll never know)...The rest is history, and so is the Army. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OOOOH, score one for the Dr. The Mantis is not stable.....But it is better Maybe next time you are down John I'll teach you it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Expect this thread to bite you on the ass....I was on the cover of Parachutist, and had a write up in Skydiving mag... Both were brought up to me in my tryouts...... They find out shit on you that you would never even think of. One person was given a picture from their home DZ. I mean THE picture of of THE wall from their home DZ. when I went it was like a hazing to get into a Frat...Expect it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know plenty that would. The problem is you really don't know much about the program, and I would bet most of the folks that think the same way as you don't either. Or they own a DZ or work for one and know that there is much more money in AFF. And Im not bitting your head off....You know I just tell it like it is, and so does Chuck. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why not learn to pack it? You will be much more comfertable with the gear after you know it. why "hopefully"???? DO it. Make it happen try the phrase " I WILL get practice at spotting and low exits!" It will make you a better, safer jumper. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Same thing with me...I was not afraid and it bothered the folks at the DZ. Im still not scared, but I am a hell of a lot more aware of what can go wrong... Don't let lack of fear keep you from it, but don't let let it lure you into a false sense of security. Skydiving will kill you if you screw up. and sometimes you can do everything right and still splat. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

When I teach a FJC I teach them how to pack in that class. When I used to teach in ARK. We tought them to pack while they were learning to jump. By the time they were on Freefall (6th jump) they were packing for themselves. Most AFF places (Like here in Zhills) the student just drops the gear off at the packers) My Ex wife had almost 900 jumps and didn't know how to pack, my last GF had 600 jumps and does not know how to pack. They both learned AFF and never learned how to pack. That does not happen at a SL DZ. No need to do a Static line now...Just do a mths worth of low exits where you spot the plane....You will get the same skills (and the skills that most AFFer's don't have) . And they are more applicable now than just a S/L jump. Go to a Cessna DZ for mth and just start with low exits and spotting..By the end of the mth you should be able to spot from 10 grand, and have no problem exiting at 3 grand. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You find alot of AFF Babies that know nothing about the S/L program don't like AFF. There is nothing wrong with Static Line..In fact I think it is much better than AFF in some areas. Most SL kids learn how to pack and spot. Most SL kids have better canopy control. Most SL kids are not afraid to leave an Airplane low. What is most important? Learning to turn points, or survive? Today everyone wants it NOW, and AFF gives it to them fast...And thats not always good. Before AFF was popular there was no need to have ISP or the "coach rating". Of course you may disagree....But since I have been doing this 10 years, know both the SL and AFF and Tandem progression program, and have tought two of them....Well I would go with mine. But feel free to think what you like. Im sick of new jumpers slamming a program they don't understand, just cause its not "cool" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope the opposite...even though I was able to skirt it in some areas..It was all in my best interest. If I could have bough tabacco at 10 I might have cancer now. If I was able to buy beer at 13 I might be an alcoholic since I didn't know limits back then. I might not have a good job. If I could drive a motorcycle without a license I would not have tried to learn how to ride one...I could have just bought one. I might be dead now. Same with driving...If I didn't have to pass a test to do it on my own, I might be dead, or have killed someone else. If I was allowed to fly a plane without a license I might have balled it up and maybe taken someone out in the process... The same could be said for why I can't fly jumpers in an otter...I have not proven I can do it, so I should not be allowed. All I am for is makeing folks prove they can handle it before they are allowed. It WILL save lives. Why would it be a big deal to not have a motorcycle endorsement? I mean if I can drive a commercial vehicle with explosives on board...surely I can handle a small motorcycle right? I mean I can reach the controls I guess I should be allowed to do what I want right? I mean, Im over 18 and all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, with all my PW its amazing I find time to work. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

and without the mantis position he may have nevr made it back "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some of them, and the times I did were the exception, not the norm. Not as PIC...There was a rated pilot in the right seat. Yes I have, but not for money. It was legal, but I can't fly for a DZ. Yes, I have, but I can't go to the store a demo one without a motorcycle endorsment. I can't get the tags without the endosment..So while I can borrow a friends, I can't get one without proving I can handle it. I could not buy them and that greatly reduced the amount of risk to me and others. Again I could steal from the old mans liquor cabnet, but the laws kept me from many drinks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Because people who don't know better are doing stupid things and getting killed. If someone knows the risks and screws up, that is one thing...to not know, and get killed its another. Regulation is in everything. I can fly a plane cause the FAA says I can. I can fly a Complex aircraft cause the FAA says I can. I can fly a HP plane cause the FAA says I can. I can pilot a twin, but Im not allowed casue I have not shown that to the FAA. Same thing with flying jumpers...I dare say I'd be a better jump pilot than folks that just have the right tickets...But the FAA says I can't. I had to be 15 to ride a motorcycle. 16 to drive a car. I still can't legally ride a motorcycle since I don't have a motorcycle endorsment...But I can carry radioactive's and explosives since I do have those endorsments. I could not buy beer till I was 21, and I could not smoke till I was 18. I could not put into my 401 K till I was 21. I can't pull at 1,000 feet, You can't do Tandems, I can't do AFF. Like it or not regulations are here, and more will come. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes.... think about all the folks on here that hate me for preaching saftey over fun. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You didn't die, so you didn't fail. Get that into your head. Go back and do it again...Think about your legs and pay attention to the signals. Do it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How the hell did I get left out???!?!?!?!?!!?!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its a good idea. It should have been done years ago. We already have that. Try jumping with someone without a license "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Mullins. I have been in the Titusville one, and Many jumps from Mikes. Mike wins. You have to take into account the field elevation. A plane will climb faster from sea level than from 1,000 feet. I have very little doubt that if both planes lined up and were given a starting signal that Mike would win. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would not bet on that Besides I was just the cute Calvin guy....Thats just wrong. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, however the CYPRES worked as intended. It is not a misfire if you pull low. It did not cause the issue the low pull did. Yes, and I do consider them. But I have yet to see a CYPRES fire outside of its operational parameters. If it did, I would not jump one. I try to remove all possible ways that my gear can kill me. I substitute training for the cool toys. Now it wil be very funny if I bounce and an RSL could have saved me...But I would rather die due to my failure to perform, than die due to a "saftey device" killing me. I can train myself to replace the RSL. Personal choice, and I only make it for myself. But I want people to know both the good and bad of ALL issues...Both sides. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It can be also said that anyone that thinks RSL's are fool proof also don't know what they are talking about. Do RSL's save more folks than they kill? YES. However, in all of the RSL "saves" a person could have saved themself if they had used the correct emergency procedures. In all of the RSL deaths....The guy did everything right and a cute little device that was supposed to save them killed them. In my OPINION a saftey device that you don't need, that can kill you is NOT a saftey device. And thats what I want folks to know...You may think Im bashing RSL's...But what I am doing is giving the other side of the coin. You have folks out there that say "RSL's are good". And when you point out that they can cause problems they look at you like you are an idiot. And in this case you don't know me at all....I have said several times in person and on here. "You should have an RSL till you have your first cutaway. Then make an informed choice." I do however think that WAY to many people are buying cool saftey toys RSL's and AAD's and depending on them for saftey, and not training and drilling the correct procedures.... I can point out many cases where a guy didn't bother to pull his reserve after a mal since he knew he had an RSL. Thats wrong as hell. Cool toys should not make up for a lack of training. You should know ALL the facts....RSL's can kill. If you know that and choose to jump on thats fine...But you should know that they can kill. And way to many times young jumpers sit at the fire, and "Brett D Bastard" says that RSL's are safe, and don't mention thet they can cause problems. And thats wrong as hell also. Not trying to slam you, but BOTH sides should be seen. RSL's are a neat toy that makes up for a lack of proper training. They can save you if you screw up, ad we all are human and can screw up. However they can kill you. Make your choices knowing that. I prefer to train harder and more, than just buy "Saftey Toys". BTW I have and use a CYPRES, but I have yet to find a fatality CAUSED by a CYPRES...Other AAD's yes, but not a CYPRES. If you find me some, I will have to rethink my use of it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Size equals speed in most cases. (A more agressive line trim will also effect speed) Shape will effect toggle presure, and response to inputs...Harness, toggles, risers...ect. You need to decide what level of feel (Shape) you want, then pick a speed (Size) that you like and can handle. I tell folks to change shape before picking a size. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334