Ron

3 years couple of days. Army, 11B Airborne Infantry, 82nd Airborne. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not trying to start shit.... We all know that sometimes jumpers tell different stories at different times about the same event. Skydiving may have gotten "Good" info from the rigger....They guy *could* have changed his story. Or the rigger changed the story...It happens also. And while I know you, and trust you.... This: Might make some question that. For those that don't know Kim...I do know her and I trust her. All I would ask everyone to do is to keep asking good questions...I am sure that ALL parties involved would like this to be resolved. And I have no doubt that Kim and company will keep us informed. Reputation is a fickle thing....No offense to the Vigil or Kim...but I would not buy any new piece of skydiving gear till it's been out two years. Only after that amount of time does a new piece of gear have enough "real world" time for me to be able to make a good choice on it. But thats my take...Everyone please feel free to run out and buy the new stuff....I'll let you put the real world time on it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh sure like that means anything "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Raeford also takes two passes per load right? That makes a big difference. It lets you get the seperation...the only time I have an issue with putting FF first is if the DZ or pilot gets pissed when I take a go around.....If they let me, then I don't really have an issue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good question...I should have included that, and I will add it right after I send this. The walk is April 24th. So everyone has plenty of time. Even if you just send a dollar it is something, so thanks. March of Dimes is one of the really good organizations out there.. FedEx also sponsors St. Jude a good bit. Charities that help sick kids are a weakness of mine. I also contribute to the American Diabetes Association (since I am a type II Diabetic). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

WWW.WalkAmerica.org/FedExTampa The Walk is April 24th. Well, OK. Most of the folks here think I'm cold harted. (and they might be right). The simple fact is while I might be a right wing guy that really cares more about facts than "feelings"....I do have some feelings. Because of this I am big into a few charities. One of them is the March of Dimes. In fact I am the local team lead for the March of Dimes for my work area. Its about taking care of those that can't...And I can't think of anyone more helpless than a newborn child. The March of Dimes has placed its focus on Prematurity. And since I'm about facts: March of Dimes has been helping Babies for over 66 years. Every day in the US 1,305 babies are born prematurely. Thats over 460,000 a year. Premature Births cause over 4,000 infant deaths each year. Premature Births cause over 1 Billion dollars a year in health care costs. Its the leading cause of newborn Death. 1 out of 8 babies are born premature. 76 cents of each dollar goes to helping the Babies and families that need it. More info about the March of Dimes can be found at www.MarchofDimes.com Which leads me to why I am breaking from my normal types of posting. I care about helping folks....Many may not like my style. But I am about making things safer for people.....Please help me make things safer for these babies. I never ask people for much, and trust me its hard. But this cause is worth it. So if you have learned from me....If you have ever offered to buy me a jump ticket, a beer, or anything else...(If it's a swift kicks in the ass, don't send that). Please don't buy me a ticket, I can afford my own. If you have offered to buy me a beer, I don't drink but thanks. Please send something to this link and consider us even: WWW.WalkAmerica.org/FedExTampa If I get enough of a response I will wear a DZ.com Tshirt during the walk. I will now go back to my regular posting. Don't become dependent on your AAD's and RSL's. Watch your wingload. Call your Mom. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ron well its....Oh well never mind, I don't have the time to explain it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't drink, but thanks. Keep an eye out for something I will be asking folks to help out on here. Sometime next week if I get my ducks in a row. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And its beer "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, you just have to take both tests, and pass all the things on the card... I never had an A or B "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The choice to skydive...The choice to willing put themselves into a situation that WILL end with them dying if they fail to perform. I don't think a 13 year old can really make that call. I don't think that a 13 year old can really grasp that they could die doing this. They may think they can, but 13 year olds think they should be allowed to drive, and drink. But there are laws that say that 13 year olds don't have the ability to make the types of choices that are needed to participate in those activities...And there are studies that back those up. So I don't think a 13 year old should be allowed to jump anymore than I think a 13 year old should be allowed to Solo a Plane, drive a car, drink alcohol, or smoke. I think while there could be exceptions....they would be rare. and lets not forget that ALL skydivers think they are the exception, and ALL parents think little Johnny is "gifted". God forbid a 13 year old bounces in the US...that WILL make the FAA get involved. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is one of the coolest things....I have ever seen "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One of the best out there. Plus the bonus footage of the record 23 Avg is nice to have. As for it being expensive I think there is 3 hours of footage. And it is a small market they are working with. They might be lucky to sell 200 total videos....The profit would not even cover the cost of jumps that went into making it. You will not get rich as a skydiver "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

We were not talking about a kid that comes out with his Dad...This thread started as a video of a kids bounce, then moved into being a thread where kids should not jump....I am not talking about the parents that bring little Johnny out during the day and leave, but about the kids that jump and hang out..... I know of two "kids" that jump, and trust me they are into the night scene. I don't think kids should be at the DZ anymore than as you say a college party... Some folks on here think its ok cause they can watch em.....Yeah, you can watch your kid ALL the time. They will want to fit in...And a kid should not be at an adult party. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

5 years and 165 jumps? How much time have you spent at the DZ? And how many DZ's? At the DZ I learned at even drinking was not that common..It was a fine family type DZ in ARK. But we still had drug users...But it was not in the open. But in my travels I have found that that type of DZ is not as common as other DZ's...But then agin I don't usually travel to small DZ's... The simple fact is that when you have Adults that are like we are..That is not what I think Children should be exposed to. And I dare anyone to tell me that Kelly, Charlie...ect are "normal" for their age. That can be good AND bad. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

thats your opinion. mine is different. I was 20 when I stepped on to my first DZ. I have seen, and done more crazy shit that I had ever thought I would do....I have seen more death and destrution than most normal folks every will, and I have seen more drugs, and more sexual acts than most normal folks would. Im not saying that a DZ can be a bad place for a kid...but it is NOT void of dangers. I have seen many kids get handed a beer when the parents are not around....I have been asked by kids to buy them beer. I have seen kids walk right up and buy beer from the DZ bar...I have seen kids get handed a joint. I have seen 16 year olds sleeping with 30 year olds. Simple fact is that kids WANT to fit in...So being around a bunch of drink and drug loving, free spirited, sexually active ADULTS...In my opinion is not a good thing for them...they will want to fit in. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Befor I skydived at 20...the only drugs I had ever seen was alcohol, and pot.....After being on a DZ for one year, I could add the whole list of dugs I know of. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would be willing to bet that someone on your DZ uses drugs. That someone is an alcoholic. I could be wrong, but I would bet that I am right...Even in my old "Christian Group" we had drug users. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It may not be true at the one DZ that you have jumped at...But it is true for MANY others. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ok become President and make that happen...Its a free country. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually Im not that far right, I am just not as far left as you "give it away" folks. You as a lefty, are just bashing to bash since he is not "your" man. If you would notice I only bash Clinton on the facts....I don't bash his economic policies since some were good. But you can/will not do that. You lefties would rather bash Bush on everything...even if you have no PROOF. So you just ramble and rattle...you have no argument since you can't PROVE anything. If you could PROVE it...Hell I'd join you in calling for his head on a stick....But you can't. So continue to yell, scream, cry whatever...You are wasting your words without PROOF. Just like you lefties always do...Condem without proof, then lie when caught. Im not under oath, and frankly I don't care if you belive me anyway. Video however is available for 49.99 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, thats the same sentance that Clinton ignored right? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

who said it was me or him that started it..It could have, and was another jumper. Actually one did say no...Me. I don't do drugs...In fact I didn't even drink much then, and don't now. See I didn't do it, but we were both around it. And we would not have been if not for being there. I would have never even been around it most drugs if not for a DZ. Im not going to go into the stories since that would be bullshit to tell.. But as for dropping my maturity level....Well I was in my early 20's...I was not mature. #1. This is a totaly different topic, and #2. That was 10 fucking years ago..Im not the same guy. So yes, I do know how to help the hook turn problem. And the point Im making is it is not. Drugs, sex, death. The only place I have seen "hard drugs" is at a DZ. I have seen 30 years olds sleeping with 16 year olds at a DZ, and I have seen plenty of death at a DZ. So the DZ is not a safe place for kids....I could be wrong, Im not a parent, but I have been on DZ's for over 10 years now. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

agreed, and I have said this before. Yes, but if they had pulled the other handle they would have been fine as well right? All I want folks to understand is that an RSL is not an excuse for not training...And there are several stories of a people pulling the cutaway an not even going for the reserve...That is device dependency...And thats bad. agreed...But I really wish you would have gone into device dependency and the dangers of it....Such as the myths that an RSL is a perfect device, and that you don't need to pull the reserve if you have an RSL... Both of these I have heard before, and I bet you have as well.. I just don't want folks to buy cool toys to replace training. And like it or not people do. In all of these the jumper just didn't pull the reserve. All of these people lacked the proper training....Some just relied on a CYPRES or RSL. Thats wrong as hell. I like the "Saftey Toys" as I call them, but they are NOT an excuse to not train the correct procedures... Please add. "I don't have to pull my reserve if I have an RSL", and "RSL's are perfect devices" to your little list. I just want folks to have ALL the information, both the good and the bad. And then make an informed choice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, but I am taking a critical thinking class. And I play a lawyer on Daytime TV. No, Im not missing the point. The point is that a good number of folks don't think an RSL can kill you. They would be wrong. It can. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334