nanook

No. It's backwards. We need deterrence, then we spend the amounts neccesary. How much is given is how much we can build. Hope you are not using the news for this info. In the beginning, there was too much activity to report. Now, they can report practicall all activities. from the viewers perspective, it looks like it hasn't changed because the amount reported is still the same. Activities have died down a lot. See last paragraph. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Behavioral pattern changes. Captured explosives, project boxes, arrests ect. Successful attacks vs. failed attack ratio changes. Changes in message traffics. Areas considered dangerous getting downgraded. Overall activity ect. ect. If you consider change of tactics as a sign of failure, then yes, they have failed. I believe a better metric would be whether or not they've accomplished (or are accomplishing) their stated goal(s). My metric says that I care more about saving lives over hurting the terrorists' goals. Who cares what they think? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

It has worked and still works. If you can change enemy behavior in warfare, you can guarantee deterrence measures. We have changed ways they have done business considerably. AQ has not had much sucess lately have they? Not to mention the 4k+ bave us soldiers; I call that success for them. Deterrence is an argument to spend more money. Call me psycho, but I would use a trillion dollars and 4K brave us soldiers to save the lives of thousands . I wouldn't dream of risking lives of thousands of civilians to save a tril and 4 thousand personnel who said they would risk all. People are more important than some few years of discomfort. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I said something similar over a couple of posts. But the purpose is for the European govts to increase their military to adequately defend themselves in areas left open by the U. S. not contributing. I then said that deterrence provides reason not to attack and to do that takes money. One major reason is the fact that the military standing on the border does nothing but bring the war inside the country, whereas deterrence in various forms keeps a "watchtower" outside of the borders so attacks have to come in a sort of form that hopefully is at the defending country's advantage. It also prevents wars from happening altogether or keeps it out of the defending country's borders. After all, the purpose of the DOD is to protect the people. But this requires a lot of Intel and a community of allies. Here, I agree with you. The disconnect and resulting taking of sides in this argument stems from the fact that before 9/11, deterrence was one of many, but not the largest pot to utilize for Anti-terrorism. But I am concentrating here: Since the attacks, the priority of the pot changed and slowed and nearly halted their the rest of their attacks. There was a major change in the Military because of this new priority. I have not heard of a single instance of a road bomb being successful in the U. S. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Behavioral pattern changes. Captured explosives, project boxes, arrests ect. Successful attacks vs. failed attack ratio changes. Changes in message traffics. Areas considered dangerous getting downgraded. Overall activity ect. ect. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

That is one way of looking at it. If you are worried about comfort and some bad feelings, then this cellular group has won. But there's always a period of bad feelings that starts every 10 years or so since this Country's history (how long they last has varied but has always ended). If you are not terrified about going outside your home or do not think twice when entering a major building or arenas and other aggregation of population, then the bad guys have failed at their mission. Qualcomm stadium was filled pretty well a few days ago. My opinion in this matter is that a bout of moodines is much better than a period of terror. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

It has worked and still works. If you can change enemy behavior in warfare, you can guarantee deterrence measures. We have changed ways they have done business considerably. AQ has not had much sucess lately have they? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I wouldn't classify Beriut barracks and USS Cole as deterrent failures. It's the Military. They are in a hostile area, and their missions weren't deterrence. As far as 9/11 and the 93' bombing, two incidences of attacks, no matter how impressive, does not conclude deterrence as useless. I'll make it simple. . .Would you rob a convenience store that always has a police car there? Would you attempt to break in John Rich's house with him there? Would someone rather rob your home instead of the first two? Who is the least likely to be robbed in these three scenerios? Who is the most likely? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Deterrence gives people a reason not to attack. That costs money. Lots of countrys have been attacked without provoking anyone. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

So you are saying that a country that never starts shit will not get attacked? Wrong, I say you have to spend a lot to get a great level of defense. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Nope, more like the world's babysitter. I think they are fine and able by themselves. Most have excellent training programs and great technology. But they got to spend to be fine by themselves first. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I'll be truthful. I could use a break. Hypothetically, if we are to cut the military budget, we should cut it where in areas it can be supplemented by other countrys' militaries taking up some of the slack. A lot of the european govts would have to, on average double, some quadruple, thier military spending. This may have an effect on their Healthcare and definitely will have a major economic impact on them, which means it will have a major impact on us. Haven't figured out if it will be good or bad, but bad for any major country over the long term usually hurts everyone else. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

According to the FBI the aircraft that hit the Pentagon didn't have airphones. Totally irrelevant. The cell phone conspiracy was about the crash at Pennsylvania. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Remember this quote? this means they weren't able to if they tried. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

You got it!! The FAA would be better at telling anyone if an aircraft is off course. They monitor and reroute aircraft. It's not a threat till it's off course, right? The answer is "yes" here. Man, we are on a roll here! Unless you thought I was denying this fact. No fly airspace? There's two airports in DC. One is about 6000 feet away from the Pentagon. The No fly airspace is a red herring. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Air intercept missiles tend to break the sound barrier almost immediatly after they leave the launch sites. They would be too far away and pointing the opposite direction mere seconds after a launch to even notice the flares or chaff over the pentagon That's why a majority of the passengers used the air phones _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Yes it did happen. But first, they would have needed to have been told by the FAA first. The Indiana person didn't put two and two together fast enough and the military was vectored in the wrong direction by confusions of where that aircraft was. Of course CT's would use another explaination because it meets thier positive outlook in life. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Regarding my previous post about shooting down an aircraft over a metro area vs. allowing it to hit the Pentagon, why do people think there were missile batteries on Pentagon property? And automated? With major airports nearby? I've only seen conspiracy theory sites talk about them existing. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Things to consider. Dulles is only 20 miles away from the Pentagon. Also, a missile that would follow heat would more than likely not dream of considering the Pentagon building as a heat source to lock on to. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

So you would shoot down an aircraft over a huge meto area? I'm pretty sure the hijackers won't fly over water out of courtesy. Alright, let's think about something here. What would you rather sacrifice; a thousand or so civillians on the ground, or a group of people that swore to defend at the cost of their lives? Personally, if I had a choice, I would rather the aircraft hit the Pentagon. Good. Why don't you instruct all of us how all of those things actually work and thier capabilities and limitations. You seem to have some insider info, share the wealth. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Despite the fact that an aircraft hit the building at a great amount of velocity carrying carrying a couple hundred tons of mass and fuel, it only damaged one section of the building and did not come close to disabling the Pentagon and it's mission. It looks like it's defensive walls and costruction prevented the headquarters from being cut out of the loop. No system is perfect. What suggestions do you have to defend it? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I bet you that reasercher was not popular as a youth _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Back in the early forties, the head linesman wore an orange and white striped jersey. They probably had some sort of anniversary or something. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

It also sounds like: "I was a total geek in high school and can't leave it behind me, and jocks still get more attention than I do." Sorry dudes, skydiving is an outstanding and thrilling sport, but it is not near close as being selective and prestigious. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Interesting, I didn't know that their safeties can be ambidexterours. Mine wasn't. I had a problem using gloves left handed due to the fact that all it takes to go "auto" from "semi " is just going slightly to the right off the semi-auto selection, which is easy to do in stress fire exercises. I went out of the wire without them whenever I could get away from it. I'll take a guess. None of that stuff looks military issue exept maybe the IBA. Crap hanging off the IBA looks too bulky. No plate in the IBA. Stuff where the Med bag would usually be. So, this guy is a Global Security type contractor that has to get the stuff from civillian catalogs, or he is a civilian version of a "Geardo". because of the older camoflague that only the Navy uses nowadays, I would lean towards civillian. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln