nanook

My brother-in-law and his wife live in Arkata and his wife is an editor in Eureka. This is her office and the people running are her reporters. Notice the dog was the first to know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV4EMzyJsqU _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Even when I was in high school, I thought: "Now why would anyone want to pay to see a bunch of guys dress and scream like a flock of persian cats?" I don't know. I've always been a dog guy. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

So I am watching the local evening news and seeing the Chargers highlights. Then "Symphony of Destruction" by Megadeth comes on as background music to the tacklings of our defensive team. I was like, "Oh, come on!! My parents ears used to bleed because of this music". I am witnessing this aspect of my teen-aged anthology being lowered to a commercial neuter-fest of muzak!! I now know how the teens of the Sixties felt with the commercialization and exploitation of the Beatles. Anyone else get the expierence of the "old fucker" setting in? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Thieves and murderers? butt pirates _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Racism maybe. Economic, I'm not sure. Around 1917, hemp was already at a severe decline due to the high cost of manufacturing in comarison to cotton. Hemp may have been stronger, but cotton and other raw materials were way cheaper and easier to manufacture. Now later during the wars, the need for raw materials far exceeded the need to be cheap and afterwards, the demand decreased again. Hemp's decline was a factor of advancement. Definitely health concerns had nothing to do illegalization. But it doesn't matter. The "why" of the past has no strengh as a bullet point for legalization. The past and how things came to be has no affect to the reasons why now it's still illegal. The reasons changed. Also, with Cigarettes and Alcohol everywhere, people are just not going to put another questional product into the mix. It's easier to say "forget it" than legalize it. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

No disagreement there. I just think that there are enough adults that will mess it up for other adults. There will always be bad apples and there is enough to do damage. There is just no way around controlling them without affecting everyone else. And there's no way of relaxing controls for responsible adults without others abusing the freedom. If the world is full of nothing but Bolas, JCD1123, Freetheflys and others here, it would be a comfy world. But how you deal with things and run your life isn't the same throughout the population. Which is why irradication is impossible and known therefore is looked at as a goal that though unattainable, its persuit will nonetheless achieve better controls. Well, Alcohol was very important, iconic and a symbol of the american pasttime then and now. There is a lot more emotion and dissolusion due to it's immediate and total ban. Drugs is not looked at as a loving and central aspect of daily life. In fact, it's looked down on by enough to keep it illegal and people are very standoffish about it being around. Also, look at the dynamics between the two. Alcohol was banned and immediately legalized again. Various drugs were banned over a period of many decades and has been kept illegal over nearly a century. There is strengh in time. Drugs does not have the "oh shit, we fucked up" factor that Alcohol did. I just don't see this happening. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Better than say. . . allow for supply which will lower prices, make it more affordable and plentiful, and put it in a position to be able be obtained easier to cause larger problems and more increased violence and societal ill. Like you said, "There's no easy fix. . ." It all boils down to this: Who do you want in jail? Those who willingly break the law, or those who breaks law because they don't have the control to make said decisions? My fix provides less of this scenario than your fix will. The analogy is about control vs. irradication. It has nothing to do about psychological effects. Bacteria and viruses will always be able to invade. The body will not be able to destroy all. Maybe the body should legalize bacteria and viruses since it can't win another "unwinnable war". The heart and lungs will pass laws to make sure the cancer and viruses will be distributed only at a certain age of the cells. The cells will have the responsibility for themselves and if they go overboard, well it's their fault. We won't prosecute said cell for allowing it's cancer get out of whack and have it pass to neighboring cells. It will be better because the T-cells will not have to die needlessly and the body will not have to expend needless calories on a war it can't win. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Those that break laws due to violence, driving under the influence, ect. Which means it's not simple which I have said many times over. No. My attitude is don't shuffle as a mean to "fix" something. My attitude is don't get caught up with pro-legalizers filling the internet with red-herring arguments that unintentionally(intentionally?) lead the discussion points off the actual issue. It's not broke. Illegalization and the arrests of suppliers isn't designed to completely irradicate the drug problem, it's supposed to slow it considerably. That's why it's not broke. It works. Can your immune system completely irradicate diseases, or does it work to keep foreign bodies at a safer level than what could happen without it? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Okay, a big portion of what you are saying is the common blurb that is being said by many previously on the same subject on different forums. It is all a huge red herring. The biggest problem with your post, famous economists, libertarians, drug users, and people who want to smoke pot is you all are concentrating on the suppliers of drugs and the crimminal ramifications of supplying drugs. It's noise that takes away from the whole intent of illegalization of Drugs in the first place. This is a war on the drugs themselves and their dangers, not a war on those who choose to go the crimminal route. We go after the suppliers the same way belligerent countries go after the supply chain of another belligerent country to prevent said country from fueling their war. Here, legalizing the supply will allow drugs to stay and further destroy lives. And worse, it will allow more drugs to be available (dont believe for a second that laws are going to curb addiction). You propose legalizing to save money, stop overfilling prisons and the like, but many fail to realize that you are moving the problem, not stopping it. The societal impact will swallow up the money legalization will save. Prisons will be filled with different types of crimminals. All in all, this would just shuffle the problem and not fix anything at all. And worse! These drugs were illegalized duing different periods of time. Times have changed. Things happen faster. there's more hustle and bustle, people live closer together and in todays computer age, the effects of societal dependence will cause a larger hurt than the less complex periods of yesteryear. There's more sensitivity to change now. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

They want to legalize all drugs. Are you kidding me? For one thing, the internet and a few local interviews on tv news stations can make what really is about eight active people and a small 700 sq ft. store front in a run down neighborhood seem like a "movement". As far as National news, any ex-cop that is for legalization of drugs is going to get some air-time. Believe it or not, it's because of the shock value, not the strengh of a movement. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Tell you what. . . in ten years, take a look back and see how much simplistic views of things advanced the legalization of MJ. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I agree with the medical value of MJ. That was not what this is about. The economic debate was not about the economics of pot legalization. Someone here was erronously calling this simple economics when there's a lot more involved. There's no magical fix. Plus Milton Friedman may be a genius, but he was more Lazai-faire with anything goverment regulation. Besides this paper was about the economics of legalization(i.e it doesn't matter what the product), not effects this will have on the people. Yes, and again, it was government organizations that debunked them. The BOD hey are all are retired, or from Canada or from Brazil! Not really credible. Overall, what's happening here is that most pro-legalizion arguments are cherry-picking reports but ignoring other parts. Most of the "govt lies" are regurgitated reports from same govt sponsored reports that show debunked myths and circled back against the same organization. It's chocked full of red herrings _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Still active duty, enlisted, and I know for a fact I will be glad I served when I retire. I don't know if I like it or hate it. There's some up and downs and for the most part I have done some rather, um. . interesting(?) things outside my NEC. Definitely not a boring ride though. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Nubooty _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I think you are referring to me. You stayed at Ocean Beach. I live there. And yes, many people smoke it. But, many more create issues with it. You want to get this stuff legalized? Why don't you start some self-policing and correct pot smokers who do wrong. Otherwise, we will continue to for you. Take some Ownership. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

The homeless themselves, with all things separated, are attracted to the climate and the tourists handing out money. Our homeless issue is really not much different than other areas of San Diego. But we have a unique breed that is not neccesarily considered homeless. these are the ones you see hanging out around the beaches and up and down Newport, Bacon, sunset cliffs and W point loma streets. They are what we called Trusifarians and are usually in the late teens to their late twenties. They are not conisdered homless because they have the ability to immediately get funds or go back to their studio apartments. It's a "homeless and beach bum 420 lifestye" status they are attracted to, it seems. Mostly spoiled laziness though. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Man, what a blast from the past. It was my favorite rig. Funny thing though, the siding was white, not the silver/gray on the front. Very light sets of Scotch Guard over a period of two days kept it gleaming white till the time I sold it in about a year. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

You mind telling me what you are implying here? You put out this cheezy website that reminds me of the KWANZAA of the super right and a link to the SOS which looks like a shell game for said website. Seriously, you want to support Frogs? Why don't you donate to the NSW Foundation, which is tax deductible while political campaigns like this one isn't. There are other donations you can do to the familys of fallen warriors also. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

If you are talking about the SEALs that are going to Courts Martial about the events pre-Fallujah, The guys requested the Courts martial themselves. They were going to get a NJP based on just what the prisoner said. They didn't like that a mark would exist in their record without an ability to defend themselves. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I wouldn't equate strong and independent with the ability to send rounds down range, female or male. Those are called Wives. And I think mine is getting ready to have me change a diaper. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Did you ever "Pete Townshend" the controller out of fustration? _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Thanks for warning me from this game I feel the same with Guitar hero. I play drums and someone showed me a Rush song, "the trees", on the game. That band was my favorite during my learning years. Those songs are second nature to me and I still play them from memory. I got on the game's drumset and couldn't do it. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I don't want you to do reasearch for me. I've already done it. I want you to tell my why these studies are wrong. These (NIH, NIDA, ect ect) Govt organizations were the ones that did the debunking!!! MORML even references them. Your site, though, mostly lists in their references the studies they try to debunk and well known debunked studes. They don't have have refereces to studes done that actually debunk the old studes. They are references to opinion articles. And worst off, they refer to thier own articles to write articles. A lot of circular referencing happening in there. I find NORML more legitimate that this! Holy crap!! Are you serious?? People lost their businesses, property value went down. Money was lost here. People left replaced by less desirables and the school and community tax base went down considerably. Seriously man. Do you own anything of valule? A house? Rental property? Anything? I feel very sorry for you. It would have been forgivable and a "pat on the head" for you if you were in college and under 25. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Happy Holidays, Brother!! Same for the rest of you all. Thanks for eight years of gained knowledge, humbling experiences and alternative ways of looking at the same subject.

But. . . for after the new years, here's some more points for you to counter. That’s fair. My mistake in the add of decrease. I agree with the correction. ??? Profit is a result of gross profit less all operating expenses. That happens in accountancy side of a business. There isn’t nothing in dealing with profit supply wise . Supply side anything deals with marginal cost. You defeat supply side issue by increasing the cost of producing. Also, you never said anything about supply side in anything you posted. Normally, when arguing economic aspects of a product issue, its one side saying “it’s a demand side issue because of ____” and the other side Is ”it’s a supply side issue because of____”. It rarely, “supply side profit. . .” Supply has nothing to do with profit or loss. Please tell me, if you are a student, that you are not chasing a business degree. Historically, your posts do not reflect social, psychological or other aspects that adds to issues included that usually shows experience on top of proper education. (To me, this means someone under 25 and/or a college student) Bums digging through trash with alcohol, not pot on their breaths, equals cleaner alleyways. Then: Younger people giggling and laughing knocking down bins because it sounds cool or to evaluate the meaning on how the trash arrayed itself and its meaning to the universe, and smelling of pot when sprouting typical B.S. while i'm confronting them. Trustifarians hanging out all day on the beaches (scream confirmation bias if you want) and being more sloppier than the regular tourist. It does if they hang out all high and loopy around court yards, outside their rv’s, saying weird things to the community children. Ask your local realtor if sales will fall through by these people. You don’t live in an affluent neighborhood apparently. You probably rent. Nope, all you have to do is separate the arrests of possession and distribution out of the rest and compare. You still see an increase over the signal to noise ratio, you got increased crime. Ocean beach of San Diego CA for one. In the 70’s, it was a family beach community despite the hippie era. The bluffs that travel from the south was pretty much a private and clean affair. The Hells Angels moved in and brought the weed, among other stuff. We kicked out the HA’s and the weed decreased. Then 13 years ago, a dispensary opened and we were back to square one. A lot of family business that survived the Angels stay, quit and left. All that was able to stay was “munchies” places and business that glorified pot. The families (the biggest spenders) once again, went somewhere else, and all that was left were the penniless college students from outside the community that went to the bars. We paid more in taxes and bought tiles to lay on Newport Ave sidewalk to give money that the new customers weren’t supplying to the district. Everything to the north blighted and us up on the hill look down on what is really a hippie preserve/trustafarian hangout. Study by the NIH http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20017729?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2 debunk each of these line by line and educate me. the references for all are all below. Show me studies why each are wrong. http://www.nida.nih.gov/marijBroch/Marijteenstxt.html#happens Throwing you a bone. This shows healing properties of medical MJ. It’s from the same sites as the above links posted. hopefuly, you see the NIH and associated govt agencies as fair. You can go on further and see old pot myths debunked by them also. And you will see proof in other areas of the plant's dangers. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8972919 _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln