nanook

Nope to all. But. . . Have your self a Merry Christmas and a happy New year.

lets try this again. You are using economic principles wrong. I believe you are arguing about "simple economics" in the very basic freshman economics class style explaination as a general description and not something pertaining to our particular product of discussion. If that's the case, you are using the principles wrong. You are arguing that crime will decrease and move away from MJ with the legalization process. Your biggest problem is the fact that you are using a Demand problem to really describe a Supply issue (Please don't dissappoint me by saying they are related) 1. It is a lot more complicated, because even if it was a demand sided problem, it's not simple due to the fact that there are many forces that curve that line. The formulas are horrendous and created by mathmaticians. Remember the movie "A beautiful mind?" That's one set of formulas given to economics. 2. This is a Supply problem. Why? because it's about how a cartel produces product and how they provide for supply. You know that the cartels are growing inside the U.S., right? These are sold to anyone, including dispensaries. And they're still crossing some across the border. This info is easily found by googling. See Point 2 So it was really about the opposite of what I thought you were saying about U.S. influence. Scratch that question then. Funny. I am thinking the same thing too. You didn't ask for comparison to the US. You asked about issues with alcohol in countries with lower drinking age. Your quote: I also took that opportunity to show you that there is a difference in how different or even seemingly similar cultures may have different effect to the same issues. It's the same with Pot. That's a huge claim. There are allowed in that group the absolutely oblivious to their surroundings and effects and the need to validate thier need to smoke weed. The insight I get here is an unhealthy attraction to a substance. They contribute to the harm to get thier buzz. Sounds like a problem to me. I grew up poor. I've seen its effects. I spent half my Naval career so far keeping this crap from coming into our borders. I have seen more than you refuse to see. I have to say this again? It's all in my previous post. It blights neighborhoods, reduce values, increases crimes, and ruin beaches with thier trash actions and the tourists stop going there and the local business suffer. Again, google. You know what's interesting? Criminals of various diciplines have said the exact same thing. You see this a lot in court proceedings, newspapers, and in Article 15's and courts martials. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

It breaks down when the supplier can change product they supply. If you can jump to something new, you can stay in business. You aren't getting rid of the bad guys. Basic economics doesn't work for most issues even in legal businesses. I'm sure you have heard of the kinked demand curves in ogliopolies. Most comes from CA, then Canada and Mexico last. The last part is enough to enrage the mexican police. It is not the biggest seller, of course. But I don't think the mexicans care about that. All western world countries have some sort of control over the drug. If the US had any hand in this, then it is a pretty strong influence. If a weak influence, they instigated it themselves. If these countries are not clueless about said dangers of this drug, why have none straight out legalize it? The best they got is Decriminalization. Actually, we are not the ones whining here. We are saying it's too complex to the layman armchair MJ supporter whose largest contribution to thier own cause is a medical MJ card. Somtimes seeing is believing. Most, if any, do not see anything more than their favorite past-time being trampled on by a bunch of "ignorant fools". I can't help you here. Pretty standard to say the least: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7093143.stm Another thing to consider in the "complex" problem: Every country has it's own cultural psychological profile. Nothing in one country is going to have the same effect or significance as the other. This source, if anything, shows how alcohol has different effects to individual cultural divisions. Somehow, having pot available legally to people in the US has a more negative impact than most of the EU. Good for them. Unfortunately, not everyone is a success to ancedotal evidence. Are these people only paying attention to their success and not observing someone who has gone the wrong path? Why would they? Also, 1. who said psychologists have to have never smoked weed to practice? 2. even if they didn't, wouldn't it make them easier to spot an issue without the pot-empathy clouding thier judgement? 3. Even if they have smoked, wouldn't it be a strengh they can relate to the patient? The answer is yes to all. I know one professional from each group. Pot is a big catalyst. I don't give a crap to how we compare to other countries. Their issues are unique. Our issues are unique. That is just a meaningless argument. You do not know what a police state is. Quit pretending. What victimless crime? There is a lot of RV's(rolling homeless) parkedby the curbs in my community stinking the air up with pot. They are an eyesore and they are introducing a lot of trash everywhere. The dispensaries in LA has attracted crime. The potheads in ocean beach leave litter and dump your trash and generally blight the neighborhoods, especially in summer. There are a hell of a lot of victims. Especially homeowners and vacationers. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Doesn't matter, probably woulda' been foreclosed anyway. Well, good ol' BofA let me short-sale the gingerbread house. They let me keep a candycane though. This year, I'll try a tree. Hope the tree-huggers won't rescue it or something. It even comes with a bit of yellow snow!! _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Your last part about your father is good ancedote that this medical pot is supposed to alleviate. I'm sorry for your loss. But there are disingenous reasons behind the medical MJ debates. I believe that they are using terminal patients as a ruse to get their precious weed and the arrests of pot disperser owners over abuse, the crackdowns happening in california, and way too many prescriptions than terminal patients are not helping me change my mind on the pot pushers. There's increase of blight and crime around the dispensaries and there are lots of complaints coming from neighbors of growers about the workers. All of this is with selling and growing of Legal pot. This example tells me that legalizing pot would increase crime and issues than decrease it. Have a Happy Christmas! _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

No it doesn't. You are looking at this like a local legal business. Are you telling me medical pot sufferers hold up for some of the best stuff? This sounds too picky for people who are in need. What kind of "medical" purposes does the good stuff provide better? After all, what is the required amount of the active ingredient is needed to treat the ailments? I'm pretty suspicious of this medical MJ needs. Nope, they are plenty mad because it increased trafficking and while at the same time they are cracking down with the help of the US, the state of CA decides to lax the Medical MJ laws and it causes problems. You are right here. And this is where it will become a complex situation. Will other countries follow suit though? A lot of them illegalized and cracked down late in the game. Will they now follow suit after what they put in? They will probably will feel cheated, pissed off. It's all political and it's going to be a mess. That's just one problem, for example. I thought we were trying to curb violence due to trafficking. Isn't this the hubb-bubb? To me, this sounds like a plea to get the spotlight off the MJ so you can smoke. Are you okay with the violence moving to other areas so you can have your pot? At the epense of other people? One thing about Prohibition; when it was legalized, the violent crime moved. Not stopped, moved. But instead of gangster to gangster, it was more blue on blue. Also with the increase of automobiles, we have a lot of deaths on the roadways. There's way more violence now. A bit 20/20, but still, Alcholhol is a major problem here. If you want to know how pot is dangerous to people, especially inpressionable people, then all you have to do is talk to some psychologists and therapists that deal with this on a daily basis. If people want to break the law for their own selfish reasons and then claim that the laws are unjust and we should "huyk. . .legalize pot, dude", then I have no problem paying to keep them locked up. This isn't a Grand Fight of the Century here folks! This is just an inmature antiauthoritorian attitude. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

The same reason many people go through drive throughs instead of going home and grilling up a hamburger. Or going to a 7-11 because it is closer than a much cheaper supermarket. This is a fast paced society. Also, don't forget; most live in apartments and/or (especially here in San diego) are the rolling homeless without tracts of land to grow. Legalization will decrease prices (sin taxes not being included because I can't predict what taxation programs would come into place with this) and I believe the lesser price (possibly by mass production by corporations) will actually make it more expensive to grow your own stuff. Pretty much like fruits and vegetables now. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

That's the problem here. People are making assumptions based on simple economics. It doesn't work that way. Like Aggiedave said, there's a whole lot more involved. For instance, Mexico is plenty mad at us due to California's "Medical pot" laws. There is a lot of pot being sold legally that was received from Mexico. And as you know, there is a huge war going on down there and cops are being killed left and right trying to stop the trafficking. There are still going to be violent crimes if we legalize here. The violence is going to be here or our demand is going to cause problems elsewhere. As long as it's illegal somewhere else, there is going to be the correct imbalance needed to provide for drug profiteering. America is too lazy to grow their own. They are going to buy at the store or illegaly for much cheaper on the streets. I personally believe that if pot is to be legalized, it would be a lot huger than just Obama signing law. This would require a global agreement. and even then, the criminals weren't fueled by a need to provide people with pot(this is why the economic theories put out here in this thread is flawed), they were fueled by the rewards. This means that the violence will not stop, it will move to other areas of black market profit. You are just moving the violence to somewhere else. If anything, this is more a psychological issue rather than a Freshman college level economic test case. There are varying issues with varying aspects with differennt reasons with different rewards dealing with multiple cultures that have to communicate with each other. This is not a black and white issue as observed on this thread so far. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Well, sometimes you got to give a team's defense some self esteem. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

In the movies: 1. The underdog gets the girl. 2. You get felonies dropped when found out it was a good cause. 3, Chasing the uninterested girl works. 4. A sneak play by a football team that at the start of the season totally sucked ass will win and come out as the best team in the league. Reality: 1. The girl goes out with some "jerk". Underdog blames girl for his shortcomings by calling her "shallow" and "does not know what she wants". 2. The guy gets peed in the butt by Bubba at Prison. He thanks you for trying to buck the system. 3. Girl gets restraining order out on guy. She finds some man of her dreams marries and she lives happily ever after. The guy hangs the restraining order on his wall as testament of her "love" for him. 4. The Redskins don't go to the Superbowl _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

They say she died of a cardiac arrest, which is a general term for "heart decided not to work any more". It can be caused by many things. Congestive heart failure, electrolysis imbalance, drug overdose, other response to foreign substance or just simply quit working. Heart attacks, however, are usually lumped with blockage of coronary arteries that cause heart tissue damage/death that may lead to a cardiac arrest and death. She has changed a lot since "Clueless". I will miss watching her movies with my wife. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

It was one of the best 70 minutes of my online time since I put " Massage", "Ass", "Asian", in a youtube search. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

There is a guy on these forums that go by the name of "Funbobby". I don't know if he is still here, but he's a LTCDR and a S-3 pilot(which are decommissioned now). He can give you some very good insight of the Naval Aviation program and community. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

the drug tests are able to read levels. It's not a yes or no reading. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I remember all the urban legends about the recoil of the 16 inch guns firing full broadsides pushing the battleships in the water.

I don't think this is something that is intentional that came out of an evolutionary need and now is some sort of vestigial organ of sorts. We're in the holiday season. Sorry this has to happen right now. call up some family and friends and let them know you are feeling a little down and keep your lines of communication open and frequent if you can. Take care of yourself and hope you feel better soon. Happy Thanksgiving. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I kind of wonder about the panic part. There might have been some other circumstances involved not known. The guy was a CHP. I'm pretty sure these guys are used to some speed and have exceptional driving skills that are way above the level of the average driver. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

The correct answer is: "non of ya. . ." _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

...you tell her"yes your butt looks thinner in those pants", you are. . . Just kidding. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

She turned me into a Newt!! _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

Weapons may only be tools regarding your version of "freedom", but your idealism, whether you want to believe this or not, can be taken away from you. It is very easy to take someone's inflection of their personal beliefs away from them. This is an ancient art. Everyone has a breaking point. I believe yours is way lower than most people, actually. Your discontentness and need to piss people off is shallow and screams of a need that requires filling. Mark 1 Mod 0 easy to break and manipulate. I implore you; if you are over the age of 21 right now, you need some serious help. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

When you are poor, it's the only thing you got. I read a paper on the poor and their vehicles. Summary is: this is their version of "keeping up with the Jones's". it's a way to pretend you have wealth. Sad thing is, you can finance the paint job, rims, stereo, wing; but not the actual 80's automobile. Going on Base here in San Diego, you see a lot of Ghettomobiles tricked out and the vehicles are the cheapest found with easily thousands put into them. It's when they make that right-turn onto base when I get all schizophrenic. Leadership. . Please let your guys know that they look like douches and advise them on long term effects of this crap. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I agree. You can be shy and confident. I also don't believe shyness can always be linked to lack of confidence. But, I believe that shyness does have some limiting aspects and in some case, a personality defect. It won't get you too far in socially dependent job descriptions; No politics for the shy!! It can add to some character defects. You just may miss opportunities in social norms by electing to not being so engaged; that is, you may be looked as aloof. it's hard to judge a timid person vs a shy person; you may not be picked to handle the hard jobs and advancement may be slower for you. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

I'm curious of how the statistics were made. Was it from the percentage that was turned down, or did they measure from total population of 17-24 of the U. S? Generally, most people who show up at a recruiting office will not be able to get in a a rule. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

This is what *you* call an American dream? It sounds too familiar, could be found all over the world. Nothing special at all. It's not supposed to be special. When americans have dreams, they are American Dreams; When canadians have dreams, they have Canadian Dreams, ect. ect. . It's country people philosophizing within their hemogeony. Not all adjetives are out to get you. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln