Robert99

Hominid, You have drawn the correct conclusions in this matter.

It looks like a World War 2 era test of a rough field landing system on a B-26. When the B-26 left the active inventory, another WW2 era aircraft designated the A-26 was re-named the B-26 and was used in such places as Korea and Vietnam in special roles and also as a multi-engine trainer for USAF pilots. There were quite a few "unusual landing gear" systems tested during WW2 and very few, if any, made it into production aircraft.

Brilliant idea. Hint: He's not here. Exactly, the JC on this thread is not Him. Instead, She is someone else.

Blevins, How could you possibly be "lost" for 34 days? The people I know would have been drummed out of the Cub Scouts and/or Campfire Girls if they had been "lost" for 34 minutes. Obviously, Seattle does not have a Polar Bear Club where the members break a hole in the ice and go swimming on January 1st.

FYI, Thanks again to Georger for posting all that weather information recently. Contrary to his statement, that was the first weather information for November 24, 1971 that I can remember receiving from him. But now that the information is at hand, Hominid has been doing some posting related to it on Sluggo's Yahoo thread. Hominid is currently away but will resume that posting when he returns. In addition, I plan to do my own interpretation of that weather for various points in Oregon and Washington and will post it in due time. Hominid has the option of going first with these posts (and taking the flack that they will receive). I am just saying that the weather discussion is not over yet and there will be more in a week or two. Also, it is hoped that the posts Hominid and I put out in the near future will be "comprehensive" and get the entire information in one place. Haggling over bits and pieces at a time is not the way to go.

You call that snow! ? Your snow has only started. Better look at a forcast, Moutain Man. Here's the road from my place last winter. People were snowed in for days here last winter - By the look of your photo you had better hike overe to Wendy's with a sleeping bag and plan to stay a month. after seing that picture it brought back memories of when I was in Ohio, we use to dig tunnels into the snow off the road after they plowed! early 70's If you were in the Dayton, Ohio area in the mid-1970s then you probably got your fill of snow, including blizzards, and 22 degrees F or so below zero.

Jo is right. Things are going POOF here. I just had a reply, plus the original post to which I was replying, disappear. Is someone hacking into this thread and playing games with the posts? Its all in your mind. Georger, Have you noticed that your last post prior to this one has also disappeared? And it wasn't "deleted". Without making any accusations, how long did it take you to learn how to do that?

Jo is right. Things are going POOF here. I just had a reply, plus the original post to which I was replying, disappear. Is someone hacking into this thread and playing games with the posts?

I posted the 500 millibar charts. 850 and 700 mb inferences can be made and it is my belief Ckrets' 30 knots at 10,000ft came from just such an inference - which one person here already alluded to previously. Larry didnt make the calculation - he knows next to nothing about these matters - but he found something in the files which allowed him to make the statement ... somebody did the calcs back in 71-72, maybe somebody at NWA we all know ? But the calc came from someone. Larry had some foundation for his remark(s). Point is these 500mb charts have implications for potential ground speeds behind an occluded front, as I understand these matters. And yes the charts are the surface chart for the date at 7AM EST. Later ... But you need to come to grips with the ground and pilot reports being real - not imagined. Something explains them. Georger, There is no front in the Seattle and/or Portland area on the evening of the hijacking. Where are these 500 millibar charts you mention? You said the charts you posted today are surface charts. Why would Ckret need "experts" to estimate the winds aloft when he could easily refer to the National Weather Service's winds aloft forecast that you posted a few days ago? Do you understand that you are now saying that the NWS and FAA weather information for November 24, 1971 is not real but imagined?

Tornados are also associated with some conditions related to hurricanes. Tornados and severe thunderstorms seem to have some type of structure that, at times, produces the micro-burst which heads for the ground. When it hits the ground at high velocity the winds radiate in a 360 degree fashion. You have probably seen pictures of micro-bursts that hit in wooded areas with the result that trees are downed and all pointed away from the point where the wind hit the ground. A number of airliner accidents have been caused by micro-bursts including a well documented one immediately adjacent to the New Orleans airport a number of years ago as the airliner took off. Another well known accident happened at the DFW airport a number of years ago during landing when a L-1011 was litterly scoured out of the sky short of the runway. This accident was definitely weather related but I don't specifically remember if it was a micro-burst (if it wasn't, it was something similiar to one).

Simply put, yes. On the backside of a rather fast moving occluded front that had formed earlier in the week, began moving across Washington-Oregon on Tuesday out of the Pacific, moved across Washington-Oregon the day of the 24th and slowed over Idaho, then spread out and began to weaken on Thursday .. I think there were residual cells still lingering as far west and in the vicinity of V23 in Washington, on the 24th and sporadic turbulence associated with some of those cells, with the merging of large warm and cold air masses on the backside of that occluded front. This could account for the various localised reports of quick-passing turulence and squals in certain areas along with more stable conditions noted further west and south, behind the occluded front already passed. That is as much as Im willing to risk saying here. I already know I will be attacked with this much! In the end one must account for all of the data which includes local personal reports of the day. These local reports from a variety of areas made throughout the day of Nov 24 1971 are credible. Here are a few maps. Have at it. Another clue mentioned before, but ignored, are the wind shifts registered at Portland itself, the day of the hijacking. See attached data from Weather Underground. From midnight of the 23rd until noon on the 24th there was a very regular oscillation of wind direction between South - SSW - and SSE. That all changed abruptly about noon. The wind suddenly began a steady shift toward the east until by 7:00pm the wind was virtually coming from the east. The trend line between noon and 7:00 is very clear. Then almost as abruptly , sometime after 7:00 pm, perhaps between 7:00 and 8:00pm, the wind changes again trending back toward the south. To some extent this data contradicts the data previously presented by Ckret and others, as I understand it. The trend lines and the fact of oscillation changing to a dramatic shift in the trend line and direction between 7:00 and 8:00pm is very clear, as represented in the Portland data. You cannot ignore the wind change data if Cooper bailed anywhere near Portland during the period of a wind shift... Georger, First let me thank you for putting those hourly sequence reports and winds aloft on the thread a few days ago. And contrary to your statement, those are the first such documents that I have seen from you. Also, keep in mind that some detailed analyses of those documents are going to show up on this thread. Now to your specific comments on the wind direction on November 24, 1971. You should also take a look at the wind speed for that same time period. From 4 to 7 PM, the ground wind speed at Portland was 4 MPH or less while the wind direction is given as generally from the southeast. By about 8:30 PM, the surface wind had picked up to about 8 MPH and generally from the south. For all practical purposes, the Portland surface wind could be described as "light and variable" for the period from 4 to 8:30 PM (by which time the airliner was south of Portland). Captain Bohan's famous 30 knot cross wind is nowhere to be seen. The maps that you sent earlier today are for the surface, correct? Take a look at the wind directions on those maps. Do they support your statements? From a fast look at all the weather information you have sent in the last few days, I see nothing in the information that is not consistent within itself. On the subject of "micro-bursts", they are associated with convective weather phenomena such as thunderstorms. There is not going to be a micro-burst on a cold winter night in Portland when the air mass is essentially stable and convection non-existent. Please do post online anything you may have from experts that contradicts the National Weather Service's reports and forecasts. I have always wanted to meet an "expert", at least one who knew what he was talking about, and if I ever do meet one my life will be over. I will have seen all the sights and have nothing further to live for. For one and all, I suggest that you visit the FAA Publications page on the Internet and check out the publication "Aviation Weather AC 00-6A", which may be available for a free download.

JT, Real facts are those that were recorded by hundreds of professional weather personnel throughout the northwest part of the US on the evening of the hijacking. They were actually there and knew what they were doing. Those facts are contained in the attachments to a recent post by Georger. The Internet is not involved or needed to understand those facts. While the opinions of you and your friends are noted, the actual facts do not support those opinions. Facts trump opinions ever time! Unfortunately, they do not support the scenario you are trying to advance.

JT, Jealous? Of what? Of whom? I don't see anything or anyone to be jealous of.

JT, You need to catch up with what is being posted on Sluggo's Yahoo thread. One poster there, not me, is the one you want to address your frustrations to. Your claims that the actual weather was stormy will not stand up to his analysis. And especially not in the Columbia River Gorge. If actual facts make someone look like a fool then so be it. At times, life can be a bitch.

JT, And maybe you need to understand that you don't have any control over the Cooper investigation despite your attempts to represent yourself as the final authority on Cooper related matters.

Jerry, You need to get your meds adjusted. You are just blowing smoke again.

Jerry, You have been claiming for years that you have access to information that no one else has access to. Yet you have never produced a single piece of meaningful information. In fact, you apparently are not even aware of the public information on the Cooper hijacking, including information from Ralph H. The bottom line is that it's time for you to back up your claims and get up to date on the public information.

Jerry, Those documents are FBI generated and released by the FBI. You seem to be forgetting that the FBI was not involved in the negotiations with the hijacker or the flight planning for the flight from Seattle to Reno. Check Ralph H.'s written statements on this.

Jerry, Read the transcripts on Sluggo's web page! It was Cooper who specified the aircraft configuration, flap setting, etc.. And forgot that you cant fly to Mexico from SEA in a 727, no matter how configured! My five year old grandson talks about "flap settings"! (Because his dad does) Georger, There is nothing to indicate that Cooper planned to go to Mexico. Everything indicates that he planned to bail out at the earliest possible moment.

Jerry, Read the transcripts on Sluggo's web page! It was Cooper who specified the aircraft configuration, flap setting, etc..

I absolutely agree HE ASKED MANY QUESTIONS! That is in the 302's. So much for his perfect knowledge and perfect plan - this phD in engineering, 727's, and hijacking! If this guy's bomb was not real he was in way over his head and needed to escape asap or face certain capture and possibly being shot dead! Everything else is secondary. So, if he has this PERFECT KNOWLEGDE about 727's et cetera, why isnt he using it? What is his problem? Telling Tina she wont be sucked out is beside the point if he's ina rush to get out! DO IT HIMSELF!!! You are assuming that the CIA operations in Asia used 727s without any modifications to the rear stairs. In the video of the parachute jumps from the Air America 727s, were the aft stairs fully down or did the jumper have to walk down the stairs to give himself enough room to exit the aircraft? Those stairs looked like they were down and locked to me. Since Boeing and the CIA did some tests involving the aft stairs, and generated a lot of test data in the process, there is no reason why they could not make changes to the aft stairs so that it could stop in intermediate positions or be locked fully down. HOWEVER, to lock those stairs fully down would probably require a modification of the stairs to include a hydraulic system to physically push the stairs fully open against the aerodynamic forces. Remember that the stairs on the commercial aircraft did not have intermediate positions. And if you are going to modify the stairs in such a manner, you are also going to have to modify the control panel for the stairs. Perhaps that is why Cooper had problems. While he DID know that the aircraft could take off with the stairs at least partially extended, he was not familiar with that particular control panel. And either Tina was a poor teacher or Cooper was not a fast learner.

Jerry, Something is getting lost in the translation here. Since Cooper specified the aircraft configuration, flap setting, etc., he MUST HAVE HAD that information. The flight crew did not give him that information, they just reacted to his demands.

Personally, I don't think a "rational person" would attempt the hijacking under the existing conditions in the first place. This does not mean that Cooper was stark raving mad. But he apparently did take leave of some of his senses on that particular day.

ANSWER: What other skills were evident?

Jerry, Assuming that the questions you are actually asking are the same questions you think you are asking, then I can only say that you need to do your homework and that will involve some reading. And Sluggo's web page is the ONLY place to start for that information. Discussions of the aft stairs, aircraft configuration, flap setting, etc., are covered in the FBI Notes, page 003/017, of the FBI Seattle FAX that is posted on Sluggo's page. They are also discussed elsewhere in the radio transcripts. Maybe you and the current people at the FBI in Seattle should read these transcripts. Since I don't know how to "cut and paste", and have no interest in learning, I can only state again that all of your questions have already been answered on this thread and elsewhere over the past few years. So to make a long story short, Cooper already had the information that you inquire about before he boarded the aircraft in Portland. Although you may dislike the written word, it has been found to be a good source of information by some people over the ages.